Drinks Package rises and Consumer Protection legislation.

[Pushka]

I'm not sure how this impacts on USA and UK people, but it seems that the prices of drinks has increased to the extent that many are now no longer included in the classic drinks package.

 

When selecting this package a few months ago, Celebrity provided a list of drinks available in it. People either paid quite a significant amount or selected this as their promo, or chose not to participate.

 

Now those drinks may not be available to consume. Australian Consumer legislation is such that I reckon this is not quite legal. You can't switch (or in this case, delete) a product after purchase. I have no idea if this legislation is applicable in other countries. If a person in Australia booked through the Aussie Celebrity site or through an Aussie TA then the Australian laws apply.

 

I'd be interested to see some comments.

 

(I need to change the title to read "drink price increase, drink packages etc etc")

Edited May 11, 2014 by Pushka

[Christine Frances]

The Classic Drink Pkg (product) as advertised is a selection of liquor/wine under $8 and beer under $6. I am sure there is a clause covering selections that fall in this group - I know "Subject to Availability" is one. I am pretty sure they can change the selections offered but they would not be able to drop the advertised Package which are the drinks with price limitations as noted above.

[Pushka]

Availability is an interesting question. Clearly if it is offered, but at a price above the $8/$6 threshold then it's still "available" as in the physical sense.

 

The product can't be materially different from what was offered at purchase point. Of course one or two drinks can drop off but it seems the prices hike has caused a significant change to the offering. And I'm pretty sure that's against our legislation here in Australia and which will apply throughout the world if booked through Aussie sites.

[nomad098]

I'm not sure how this impacts on USA and UK people, but it seems that the prices of drinks has increased to the extent that many are now no longer included in the classic drinks package.

 

When selecting this package a few months ago, Celebrity provided a list of drinks available in it. People either paid quite a significant amount or selected this as their promo, or chose not to participate.

 

Now those drinks may not be available to consume. Australian Consumer legislation is such that I reckon this is not quite legal. You can't switch (or in this case, delete) a product after purchase. I have no idea if this legislation is applicable in other countries. If a person in Australia booked through the Aussie Celebrity site or through an Aussie TA then the Australian laws apply.

 

I'd be interested to see some comments.

 

(I need to change the title to read "drink price increase, drink packages etc etc")

 

Here is what the UK law states

 

The Trade Descriptions Act 1968

 

The Trade Descriptions Act makes it an offence for a trader to make false or misleading statements about goods or services. It carries criminal penalties and is enforced by Trading Standards Officers, making it an offence for a trader to:

 

1) apply a false trade description to any goods

2) supply or offer to supply any goods to which a false trade description has been applied

3) make certain kinds of false statement about the provision of any services, facilities or accommodation

 

They would also fall foul of the Advertising Standards Agency (ASA), the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as well as The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992

 

Quite a blunder really

[WpgCruise]

What an interesting idea........................

 

When will you be filing your complaint with the authorities?

 

Please do let us know the outcome of your action.

[ghstudio]

What an interesting idea........................

 

When will you be filing your complaint with the authorities?

 

Please do let us know the outcome of your action.

 

The reason many of these laws aren't enforced is the inaction of folks who just say, oh what the heck. Generally, it is very easy to call violations to the attention of the proper enforcing organization and then it's up to that organization to investigate or not. If these folks feel their rights have been violated, they can follow whatever procedures are set up. It's their call and their country's laws.

[Oxo]

Why not start a poll to see what the majority think of the changes recently made to:

Classic Package

Specialty Restaurants

Cut back in staffing

All other reductions in benefits or things that we thought were offered when we booked our cruise and were changed?

[nomad098]

What an interesting idea........................

 

When will you be filing your complaint with the authorities?

 

Please do let us know the outcome of your action.

 

I will not be filing a complaint as I did not book in the UK and must abide by the terms and conditions I booked under (US). I knew this when I booked

 

Pushka asked about how it impacts in the US and UK so I answered from UK stand point

[txflood33]

The reason many of these laws aren't enforced is the inaction of folks who just say, oh what the heck. Generally, it is very easy to call violations to the attention of the proper enforcing organization and then it's up to that organization to investigate or not. If these folks feel their rights have been violated, they can follow whatever procedures are set up. It's their call and their country's laws.

 

 

You are absolutely correct. But who wants to file international legal papers to the company you are going to get on their boat and travel to a foreign country with?

 

These laws were not designed to take on an entertainment venue when they switch the selection from Stella Artois to Bud Light. If you selected your vacation based on Johnny Walker Black and you are throwing a fit over Johnny Walker Red, you have bigger issues.

 

If you are truly upset, call them and see what they say. If you are not satisfied, then cancel and get your money back and book with another cruise line. I'm not trying to me rude, but that's what get's companies to change policies and respect their customers, not hitting them with an international suit and pound your litigious chest.

 

I guarantee there is something in the small print that covers them for changes...I mean, I'm assuming they have an international legal team bigger than mine.

 

It's a vacation, we're not curing cancer.

 

I think I'll go sign up for the drink package now :D

[Pushka]

The issue I guess is a Values one. The product being offered now is substantially different from that either chosen or purchased. And that in Australia anyway, is against Consumer protection legislation.

 

Sometimes you can't sweat the small stuff. And you might say, meh, its only a few dollars. Magnify that across one ship - let alone a fleet of ships, every day, every passenger. We are talking about a great deal of money here. And people not being bothered to fight is exactly what companies are counting on.

 

A Poll is a good idea.

[txflood33]

The issue I guess is a Values one. The product being offered now is substantially different from that either chosen or purchased. And that in Australia anyway, is against Consumer protection legislation.

 

Sometimes you can't sweat the small stuff. And you might say, meh, its only a few dollars. Magnify that across one ship - let alone a fleet of ships, every day, every passenger. We are talking about a great deal of money here. And people not being bothered to fight is exactly what companies are counting on.

 

A Poll is a good idea.

 

 

I never said don't fight. I said international litigation is not the right fight.

 

If you feel wronged, cancel your trip. Or call for some sort of other consolation.

 

What is your expected outcome if pursuing legally? Force Celebrity to put the 15-20 drinks they moved up back to your level? Then what? Your cruise is awesome and rocking and Celebrity offers very few specials again because when they made an error, their 'loyal customers' put their foot on it's throat and pressed. It's alcohol....you are still getting alcohol.

 

This is a losing battle and a horrible outcome in the big picture.

[Christine Frances]

Sorry. I think a comparison would be let's say the MDR. You are guaranteed meals in the MDR each day. There are (I think) sample menus on the website. Are you going to sue X if they change a few dishes? Some dishes are changed/replaced? Some dishes are now only available in the specialty restarsunts?

 

Same with the drink packages. You are guaranteed beers under $6 and wines/liquors up to $8. There is no guarantee what the offerings are.

 

 

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[ghstudio]

You are absolutely correct. But who wants to file international legal papers to the company you are going to get on their boat and travel to a foreign country with?

 

These laws were not designed to take on an entertainment venue when they switch the selection from Stella Artois to Bud Light. If you selected your vacation based on Johnny Walker Black and you are throwing a fit over Johnny Walker Red, you have bigger issues.

 

If you are truly upset, call them and see what they say. If you are not satisfied, then cancel and get your money back and book with another cruise line. I'm not trying to me rude, but that's what get's companies to change policies and respect their customers, not hitting them with an international suit and pound your litigious chest.

 

I guarantee there is something in the small print that covers them for changes...I mean, I'm assuming they have an international legal team bigger than mine.

 

It's a vacation, we're not curing cancer.

 

I think I'll go sign up for the drink package now :D

 

I think you missed my point. You don't file suit...you report this to the folks in the government who are responsible for compliance and they investigate. I am sure their lawyers think they didn't violate any laws....so did lawyers for Enron and every company who has been found to violate laws. If you feel the law has been violated, first call celebrity and if they don't give you a satisfactory answer, then report them and see what happens.

 

Cancellation of a cruise may mean airline penalties, celebrity cancellation penalties. It's not as easy as "just cancel your cruise"

 

Many might say...it is what it is and that's fine. Others may feel stronger about legally protected rights and that's certainly their prerogative.

[Martinjjd]

We seem to be speculating here because nobody seems to be able to produce a complete list of what is included or has been excluded.The list on the Australian website did not include everything that was available on our March cruise because the two spirits I drink (Southern Comfort & Baileys) were not on the list but were readily available & the list clearly states that it is not a complete list. I do not know about UK & USA lists.

[Lsimon]

.... but it seems that the prices of drinks has increased to the extent that many are now no longer included in the classic drinks package.

 

When selecting this package a few months ago, Celebrity provided a list of drinks available in it. People either paid quite a significant amount or selected this as their promo, or chose not to participate.

 

Now those drinks may not be available to consume....

 

Could you provide examples of the "many" drinks that are no longer included in the classic package, or a list from Celebrity that showed what was available vs. a current list which no longer has such items listed.

 

I think I've read of one example only (I think it was Jameson Irish Whiskey) and the facts about that one were not real clear from the posts I've read.

 

I'm not saying your post isn't accurate but just out of curiosity I'd like to know the facts and what has been cut from the classic package.

[ghstudio]

Could you provide examples of the "many" drinks that are no longer included in the classic package, or a list from Celebrity that showed what was available vs. a current list which no longer has such items listed.

 

I think I've read of one example only (I think it was Jameson Irish Whiskey) and the facts about that one were not real clear from the posts I've read.

 

I'm not saying your post isn't accurate but just out of curiosity I'd like to know the facts and what has been cut from the classic package.

 

See post 1 although I don't know when the uk list was posted...it's still on their site but no longer referenced from the uk web site.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ghstudio

[nomad098]

I never said don't fight. I said international litigation is not the right fight.

 

If you feel wronged, cancel your trip. Or call for some sort of other consolation.

 

What is your expected outcome if pursuing legally? Force Celebrity to put the 15-20 drinks they moved up back to your level? Then what? Your cruise is awesome and rocking and Celebrity offers very few specials again because when they made an error, their 'loyal customers' put their foot on it's throat and pressed. It's alcohol....you are still getting alcohol.

 

This is a losing battle and a horrible outcome in the big picture.

 

Cancellation in the UK is not a good option as deposits are non refundable and higher than the US for a family of 4 £1000 ($1650)

 

Prices in the UK are generally higher than the US and according to Celebrity UK and Royal Caribbean UK this is partly because of the pesky UK and EU laws they have to abide by

 

You get what you pay for but in this case it's not what you have been lead to believe this is what rubs people the wrong way

[Lsimon]

See post 1 although I don't know when the uk list was posted...it's still on their site but no longer referenced from the uk web site.

 

I did but don't see any examples listed or referenced. Only a general claim. I've heard there have been some price increases but also thought that I read the prices of the classic package limits have increased correspondingly.

[Pushka]

The list was available on the UK website and for example, Baileys is no longer offered. I only looked for alcohol that I would be interested in. A couple of the beers we would drink have disappeared. The spirits list (eg branded vodka's) is much lighter.

 

I grabbed a copy of the original list last night from the UK site but it's on my iphone - not sure how to get it here? I'll try in a minute

 

There are multitudes of threads on these boards with the new prices.:confused:

 

Cancel the trip? Sure, I've already made full payment as its less than 60 days. :rolleyes:

 

And Consumer legislation in Australia and apparently in the UK is that we don't sue but the Government authority takes it up on our behalf.

 

Maybe it's a cultural difference - companies can't just withdraw products and suddenly make them unavailable (whether by withdrawal or hoiking up the price) once you've paid. At least not in Australia and now, the UK.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Pushka

[Pushka]

The website is doing its flaky thing at the moment anyway!:(

[ghstudio]

I did but don't see any examples listed or referenced. Only a general claim. I've heard there have been some price increases but also thought that I read the prices of the classic package limits have increased correspondingly.

 

Larry...sorry I gave you the wrong reference. See post 1 in this thread

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2039973

 

The classic limits haven't changed afaik...still $8 plus gratuity for drinks which shows as $9.20 on the uk site because they include the gratuity in the limit.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ghstudio

[TheMediaman]

Remember that ships sail under flags of convenience. Your law, my law...most everyone else's law is not their law. However the change in policy should be grandfathered to those purchased prior or sufficient notification to the purchaser.

 

 

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[Pushka]

Does this work?

[Lsimon]

The list was available on the UK website and for example, Baileys is no longer offered. ...

 

OK, found a thread that discussed the Baileys and had several other examples.

It seems that they should be able to adjust their programs but have some mechanism to make customers who purchased before the change happy.

 

Too bad. It seems like Celebrity is taking a lot of steps lately along the lines of misleading marketing and changes that many loyal customers find disappointing.

The tone of criticism of changes to Celebrity's policies and on board experience posted here lately has taken a turn to a darker side. There have always been complaints that are more differences of opinion or somewhat isolated experiences but lately it seems there is a lot of discontent with changes management is making.

 

We haven't been able to cruise this year so I can't report on any recent experiences of my own, but I hope that the Celebrity experience remains worthwhile to us when we do cruise again.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lsimon

[Pushka]

OK, found a thread that discussed the Baileys and had several other examples.

 

Too bad. It seems like Celebrity is taking a lot of steps lately along the lines of misleading marketing.

 

On the other hand it seems that they should be able to adjust their programs but have some mechanism to make customers who purchased before the change happy.

 

Yes, I totally agree. Business's should be allowed to make adjustments to their business models but they cannot change the process (except in extenuating circumstances - eg no supply) once they've advertised something, and extracted their money.