Solar arrays on Princess ships?

[donaldsc]

In cars there is the use of solar to run ventilation in hot weather when parked up,

 

conveniently usually sunny/hot coincide.

 

Usually embedded in the sunroof

 

All the solar has to do is run a single small fan. How much power can that require?

 

DON

[insidecabin]

All the solar has to do is run a single small fan. How much power can that require?

 

DON

that's the point it is an appropriate application of solar saving the battery for it's primary purpose starting the car.

 

Match the tech to application, ships need big generators to meet the power demand very few sources have the energy density to deliver.

 

ships should continue to focus on reducing drag and energy use in the hotel operations.

[RDC1]

In cars there is the use of solar to run ventilation in hot weather when parked up,

 

conveniently usually sunny/hot coincide.

 

Usually embedded in the sunroof

 

Just out of curiosity, what car models have that. I have not run across it. I have only seem cheap add on units. Nothing done by auto manufacturers. Just as there are solar panels you can plug in to keep the battery charged while a car is parked for a long period of time.

 

Not that application is for when the car is stationary. The context of my comment related to why the companies don't include solar on hybrids to feed power to the battery to help improve fuel economy.

Edited June 19, 2014 by RDC1

[RDC1]

that's the point it is an appropriate application of solar saving the battery for it's primary purpose starting the car.

 

Match the tech to application, ships need big generators to meet the power demand very few sources have the energy density to deliver.

 

ships should continue to focus on reducing drag and energy use in the hotel operations.

 

never mind I found it on the Prius. Look at how much surface area is needed just for the purpose of running a fan when the car is parked in direct sun.

[Christine Frances]

You're assuming that they could be cleaned at some point during a cruise which is, of course, not always the case. There are many ports and regions where cleaning and window washing is not allowed.

 

The solar panels need sun and they need to be able to face the sun. Again, not always feasible. Storage and distribution systems would need to be designed and built. All of this is very costly and I'm sure Princess has done a cost analysis.

 

Don't forget that Celebrity has numerous environmental violations and doesn't have permission to sail in some areas with strict environmental regulations. Princess does. Just saying.

 

Such as Glacier Bay? http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/01/30/princess-cruises-glacier-bay-fine/1876607/

 

Ships operate by concession in Glacier Bay. There are only 5 permits issued and they expire in 2019. Princess, Hal, NCL, Carnival and Crystal. Every ship has to pay a Franchise Fee of $500 per pax PER DAY! So for a 2,500 pax ship that works out to $1,250,000 a day.

 

I think Celebrity is happy going to Hubbard instead!

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/parkmgmt/cruise-ships.htm

[msmoger]

Such as Glacier Bay? http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/01/30/princess-cruises-glacier-bay-fine/1876607/

 

Ships operate by concession in Glacier Bay. There are only 5 permits issued and they expire in 2019. Princess, Hal, NCL, Carnival and Crystal. Every ship has to pay a Franchise Fee of $500 per pax PER DAY! So for a 2,500 pax ship that works out to $1,250,000 a day.

 

I think Celebrity is happy going to Hubbard instead!

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/parkmgmt/cruise-ships.htm

 

I'm curious what is your source for this per passenger charge? I'm not doubting you but I wasn't able to find this information on the two links and that seems like an extremely hefty fee.

[insidecabin]

never mind I found it on the Prius. Look at how much surface area is needed just for the purpose of running a fan when the car is parked in direct sun.

 

VAG group have them, in the Europe an option on the Skoda Superb.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/models/HotspotDetail?HotspotName=New%20%C5%A0KODA%20Superb%20-%20%C5%A0KODA%20Superb%20sun%20roof%20with%20solar%20cells&WebID=ae96cdca-03f5-4650-9cb4-7f88289cf501&Page=technology

[RoxnDox]

I'm curious what is your source for this per passenger charge? I'm not doubting you but I wasn't able to find this information on the two links and that seems like an extremely hefty fee.

 

Well, here is a press release of sorts, from the NPS (so I rate it considerably more reliable than Internet claims... :rolleyes:), on the cruise ship contracts awarded back in 2009. It provides a figure of $12 per passenger - much more reasonable.

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/parknews/2009-01-14.htm

 

Jim

[IECalCruiser]

never mind I found it on the Prius. Look at how much surface area is needed just for the purpose of running a fan when the car is parked in direct sun.

We have that model Prius and all the solar panel does is run a small fan to circulate air when the car is parked out in the sun. It does stop the car from getting too hot on the sun.

 

The point is that the amount of solar power that can be generated is a drop in the bucket compared to the power demand. It's nice PR for Celebrity, but little more. Other practices like the use of shore power which Princess had been in the forefront, conversion to LED lighting and others can provide for a better environment probably much more effectively.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

[Pam in CA]

Every ship has to pay a Franchise Fee of $500 per pax PER DAY! So for a 2,500 pax ship that works out to $1,250,000 a day.

Not possible. Any fees are passed along directly to the passenger. The cruise line does not absorb them. Just checking a July cruise that goes to Glacier Bay, all port fees and taxes combined are about $148. Alaska is one of the more expensive states to cruise to as they have heavy state and port taxes and fees for cruise passengers. Edited June 19, 2014 by Pam in CA

[insidecabin]

The context of my comment related to why the companies don't include solar on hybrids to feed power to the battery to help improve fuel economy.

 

That's the point solar is just not worth it for propelling mass, fossil fuel is just too efficient as an energy source in a mobile environment if you keep the drag down and run efficient engines nothing else comes close unless it is small mass and short distance and/or can be fuelled from an efficient source.

 

For secondary use in vehicles where running the battery(the tool to start engines) down would be a disaster, alternatives have a use.

 

Hybrid/electric just move the pollution elsewhere to the manufacture disposal of batteries and the generation of electricity.

 

Great when you can blame someone else for the pollution.

[RDC1]

Such as Glacier Bay? http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/01/30/princess-cruises-glacier-bay-fine/1876607/

 

Ships operate by concession in Glacier Bay. There are only 5 permits issued and they expire in 2019. Princess, Hal, NCL, Carnival and Crystal. Every ship has to pay a Franchise Fee of $500 per pax PER DAY! So for a 2,500 pax ship that works out to $1,250,000 a day.

 

I think Celebrity is happy going to Hubbard instead!

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/parkmgmt/cruise-ships.htm

 

Not quite accurate. There are five cruise lines that have received permits, but there are more then 5 permits.

 

The fee is $12 per passenger or a maximum of $500 per day which ever is higher according to the Princess Concession contract. Princess was allocated 58 visit permits, Holland America 65, NCL 22, cruise west 8. I think that Crystal also got a visit or two in the unallocated shoulder season area. I also think cruise west went bankrupt after the award period. Disney submitted a bid, but withdrew before the awards. Carnival did not bid, but may have picked up some of the cruise west or should season permits.

 

Celebrity and Royal Caribbean did not submit a bid. Now at various times cruise lines including Celebrity and Carnival have received 5 years bans for violation of environmental laws (felony violations which rendered the company ineligible for receiving a government concessions award during the duration of the probation). Those were several years ago and all had expired well before the 2009 competition. RCL and Celebrity chose not to submit bids in 2009.

Edited June 19, 2014 by RDC1

[Colo Cruiser]

Also have Silversea/Oceania/Regent.

[insidecabin]

Not possible. Any fees are passed along directly to the passenger. The cruise line does not absorb them. Just checking a July cruise that goes to Glacier Bay, all port fees and taxes combined are about $148. Alaska is one of the more expensive states to cruise to as they have heavy state and port taxes and fees for cruise passengers.

 

agree it don't add up

 

Try looking at some EU routes, Panama.

 

Cruise lines currently hide the port charges(per port) in total

 

In the EU they have to include them in the cruise fare anyway so no separate charge.

 

 

If there was a $500pp fee then some cruise pax are subsidised as that is close to the fare for some cruises in Alaska

[RDC1]

agree it don't add up

 

Try looking at some EU routes, Panama.

 

Cruise lines currently hide the port charges(per port) in total

 

In the EU they have to include them in the cruise fare anyway so no separate charge.

 

 

If there was a $500pp fee then some cruise pax are subsidised as that is close to the fare for some cruises in Alaska

 

the fee is $12 per passenger or $500 per ship, whichever is greater according to the Concession Contract for Princess. The contract is at the following link.

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/parkmgmt/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=231459

[Christine Frances]

Not quite accurate. There are five cruise lines that have received permits, but there are more then 5 permits.

 

The fee is $12 per passenger or a maximum of $500 per day which ever is higher according to the Princess Concession contract. Princess was allocated 58 visit permits, Holland America 65, NCL 22, cruise west 8. I think that Crystal also got a visit or two in the unallocated shoulder season area. I also think cruise west went bankrupt after the award period. Disney submitted a bid, but withdrew before the awards. Carnival did not bid, but may have picked up some of the cruise west or should season permits.

 

Celebrity and Royal Caribbean did not submit a bid. Now at various times cruise lines including Celebrity and Carnival have received 5 years bans for violation of environmental laws (felony violations which rendered the company ineligible for receiving a government concessions award during the duration of the probation). Those were several years ago and all had expired well before the 2009 competition. RCL and Celebrity chose not to submit bids in 2009.

 

Thank you for your explanation on the concessions/permits:) Very helpful

 

The actual wording is "the greater of $12 per passenger per day or $500.

 

So for 2,500 pax that would be $30,000 per day (Sorry I was incorrect on my first calculation:o.)

 

Is Alaska still doing the head tax on top of this Franchise cost or has that been recinded?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Christine Frances

[notentirelynormal]

No, not by a long shot. I don't even have any financial interest at all in solar, although I'm considering investing in solar panels for my home.

 

Do you work in, or do you have specific financial interest in, the fossil fuel industry?

 

So you think the cruise ships should have solar panels but you, yourself are only considering using solar panels for your home? I hardly think you should be judging them when you do not practice what you preach.

[Christine Frances]

Here are pictures of the solar panels on Solstice. They are on the roof above the Solarium. Why not put that area to use and any benefit (no matter how much) will save X in fuel costs.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=solar+panels+on+celebrity+solstice&rlz=1I7ACGW_en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=m12jU6-bO87-oQSA4YCACg&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=598#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=kHFHEfuIl4m6YM%253A%3BkE9QhJioAjRbVM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.usatoday.net%252Ftravel%252F_photos%252Fgallery%252Fcruise-ship-tours%252Ftr101018-cc-eclipse%252F03pg-vertical.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmediagallery.usatoday.com%252FCelebrity%252BEclipse%252FA7765%3B510%3B340

Edited June 19, 2014 by Christine Frances

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Not quite accurate. There are five cruise lines that have received permits, but there are more then 5 permits.

 

The fee is $12 per passenger or a maximum of $500 per day which ever is higher according to the Princess Concession contract. Princess was allocated 58 visit permits, Holland America 65, NCL 22, cruise west 8. I think that Crystal also got a visit or two in the unallocated shoulder season area. I also think cruise west went bankrupt after the award period. Disney submitted a bid, but withdrew before the awards. Carnival did not bid, but may have picked up some of the cruise west or should season permits.

 

Celebrity and Royal Caribbean did not submit a bid. Now at various times cruise lines including Celebrity and Carnival have received 5 years bans for violation of environmental laws (felony violations which rendered the company ineligible for receiving a government concessions award during the duration of the probation). Those were several years ago and all had expired well before the 2009 competition. RCL and Celebrity chose not to submit bids in 2009.

That makes more sence ..

[caribill]

Here are pictures of the solar panels on Solstice. They are on the roof above the Solarium. Why not put that area to use and any benefit (no matter how much) will save X in fuel costs.

 

So, to use the new Royal and Regal as an example, exactly what areas do you feel can be covered in solar cells?

 

And maybe someone can do the calculations about how much more fuel would be used due to the weight of the solar cell installation and associated equipment and compare that to the amount of fuel saved by the amount of electricity generated by the solar cells.

[Kenswing]

So, to use the new Royal and Regal as an example, exactly what areas do you feel can be covered in solar cells?

 

And maybe someone can do the calculations about how much more fuel would be used due to the weight of the solar cell installation and associated equipment and compare that to the amount of fuel saved by the amount of electricity generated by the solar cells.

 

Also add in there the initial cost to purchase and install the equipment, the labor it will take to keep it clean and maintained. I doubt the return on investment is worth it..

[Christine Frances]

So, to use the new Royal and Regal as an example, exactly what areas do you feel can be covered in solar cells?

 

And maybe someone can do the calculations about how much more fuel would be used due to the weight of the solar cell installation and associated equipment and compare that to the amount of fuel saved by the amount of electricity generated by the solar cells.

 

If it was on a Princess ship it might offset some of the wind drag and weight of those large MUTS screens:D