October 2016 Cruise "No Longer Available"

[marinaro44]

I was musing in general terms about the error of telling someone who 'wants to book' prior to those 'already booked'.

Seems to me if someone "wants to book" and the cruise line already knows the cruise is not available it would be best not to book that someone. Otherwise it will be one more person who will have to be told later.

 

When you cancel a month or more of already-announced and booked cruises you're gonna upset people. There's no getting around it.

[2fromTO]

Hi Marinaro44, I didn't mean literally "who"...I was musing in general terms about the error of telling someone who 'wants to book' prior to those 'already booked'. This goes against protocol and again, we apologize.

And with the prevalence of social media, there's the logistical challenge of telling everyone at the same time so no one learns important information from 2nd or 3rd parties.

 

The so-called important information did not originate from a 2nd or 3rd party but from the Azamara website that, without explanation, showed 9 voyages in 2016 as "unavailable". Totally not fair to point the finger at social media.

[2fromTO]

Both viewpoints are valid but loyalty is not really the correct basis for either one.

 

I completely understand where you are coming from, however, for me, it is all about loyalty.

 

My first choice in cruising is Azamara. However, the decision to charter for 11 weeks in 2015 and now an additional 13 weeks in 2016, has significantly reduced the number of voyages to choose from. Furthermore, the priority given to long term charters, signals to me, a significant shift in the direction of the company. This has created doubt and uncertainty. Where is the company headed? Should I "invest" in a future cruise? Is it time to adopt the strategy of EnglishTim, to choose opportunism over loyalty and to wait for the best last minute deal, regardless of cruise line?

[bob278]

I completely understand where you are coming from, however, for me, it is all about loyalty.

 

My first choice in cruising is Azamara. However, the decision to charter for 11 weeks in 2015 and now an additional 13 weeks in 2016, has significantly reduced the number of voyages to choose from. Furthermore, the priority given to long term charters, signals to me, a significant shift in the direction of the company. This has created doubt and uncertainty. Where is the company headed? Should I "invest" in a future cruise? Is it time to adopt the strategy of EnglishTim, to choose opportunism over loyalty and to wait for the best last minute deal, regardless of cruise line?

I can't be labeled an Azamara apologist since I have only one cruise with them and their decision to execute long charters stopped me from booking two cruises with them for 2016. To tell the truth, it took a pretty unique combination of an outstanding b2b to get me back in the first place.

 

Maybe I spent too many years as a business analyst and just look for logic. But I still think it is more an analysis of "risk-and-reward" on both sides of the ledger.

 

We, as cruisers have to ask ourselves several questions including all the ones you list as well as:

• Is the combination of price/itinerary/timing the best for me
  
• Is the service on board as good or better than any alternative
  
• Do I like the ships as much as other cruise lines
  
• Do the benefits from past cruises (only item that can be considered as loyalty-related) outweigh attractions on competitive choices for this particular cruise
  

 

Once we evaluate what is best for US, we decide where to spend our money. I think loyalty is more an emotional criteria than logical. While I prefer to do business with a company I have used and liked before, if I think a competitor's product is better for me, I'm gone. A company keeps my business by earning it with their product, not by being nice.

 

But Azamara will give me the perks of Discoverer Plus based on my cruising history on Celebrity even though I have only one cruise with them. Isn't that an example of loyalty?

 

Like it or not, we all know that Azamara is a business and has certain responsibilities and goals. Their risk/reward questions might look like this:

• For x weeks, what is the difference in certain revenue of a charter vs. the probable sale of cabins with varying prices to try to fill them
  
• What is the cost to compensate already booked passengers
  
• What is the risk that a given number of people will never book with us again
  
• How many potential new customers might be scared off of booking with us for the first time
  
• Which approach provides the greater return to the bottom line and to our stockholders
  

 

Azamara considered these questions (and probably many more) and made their business decision. I considered the impact on me and will take my money somewhere else, probably never to return. But if that is the case, it will be more because the right combination of itinerary/price/timing does not present itself. I will continue to consider Azamara in the future. Both of us made logical decisions based on what was best for us.

 

If one person does something in their own best interest that another person dislikes and the second one says "I'm gone", which one is disloyal?

 

I guess it boils down to this: I am disappointed, but not insulted.

[2fromTO]

I understand that Azamara is a business and has a responsibility to its shareholders. And that they probably did a risk analysis before making the decision to charter. Since they did chose the charter, I am assuming that the guaranteed revenue of this decision outweighed the risk of upsetting its repeat (loyal) customers or losing potential new customers. Who really knows?

 

All I know is how I feel. Azamara is my cruise line of choice but this decision has raised doubt in my mind about booking a future cruise. I will wait and see. Is this being disloyal - I don't think so. In the meantime, I am looking forward to cruising to Antarctica on the Journey in January.

[TERRIER1]

The so-called important information did not originate from a 2nd or 3rd party but from the Azamara website that, without explanation, showed 9 voyages in 2016 as "unavailable". Totally not fair to point the finger at social media.

 

Our cancelled B2B is still showing up if you chose 2016 Voyages from the main page of the website but not if you search through the drop downs. I even called Azamara and they confirmed the trip that is now cancelled.

 

The problem with waiting until later to book to insure that the voyage will actually take place is problematic.

 

First, you miss out on the on board discount.

Second you don't get the cabin you want.

Third, we cruise with Oceania and they put out their schedules early and fill up quickly. We will sail with Oceania if we see the itinerary we want. Once booked, I am not taking a second sailing with Azamara for the same year given their current high price point and I am not going to take another chance with Azamara chartering out a cruise.

 

I like Azamara a lot but with only 2 ships and one being chartered out for long periods of time the scheduling doesn't work.

[CintiPam]

I like Azamara a lot but with only 2 ships and one being chartered out for long periods of time the scheduling doesn't work.

 

+1.

 

I do not take any of this personally; have no concerns about loyalty, etc. I simply cannot find scheduled cruises during the time periods I prefer to sail when so many of the best times (not in the height of summer heat) are now for charter passengers only.

[TERRIER1]

I just received an online promotional offer from Azamara for Choice Air and booking credits. When I click on the "view Voyages" my two 2016 Quest voyages appear although they are supposedly now cancelled and the ship chartered out. Why does Azamara continue to show these voyages in their promotions? Why hasn't my TA heard of the cancellations yet?

[BBMacLaird]

I just received an online promotional offer from Azamara for Choice Air and booking credits. When I click on the "view Voyages" my two 2016 Quest voyages appear although they are supposedly now cancelled and the ship chartered out. Why does Azamara continue to show these voyages in their promotions? Why hasn't my TA heard of the cancellations yet?

 

Hi Terrier1,

I offer the following as an explanation, not as an excuse:

the creative artwork for this expiring promotion (ends on 7/31) was produced months ago, prior to the 2016 charter being signed. You can be assured the old dates will not be included in the upcoming new campaign that will be begin 8/1.

As for why your T/A hasn't been contacted yet, I cannot speculate. If you are definitely in "BK" status, then your agent will definitely be contacted.

[bob278]

Dear Cruise Critic members,

We just wanted to clarify a couple of things. When using the term unfounded, it was referencing the speculations and assumptions on this thread about why these sailings are closed, e.g. a precursor to the sale of the ships.

Such comments are untrue and thus “unfounded”. But perhaps that word was ill-chosen and I apologize for that.

The second, more salient point to make, is yes, the 2016 voyages from August 26 through December 19 are currently being redeployed due to a private charter.

The rearranging of the surrounding itineraries will take a few weeks to complete before we can publish them. Some of you may recall my blog “The Art of Itinerary Planning” and all of the steps that Claudius Docekal has to go through in order to plan and deploy an itinerary? Not least of all is the confirming of docking berths in the various ports. Here it is again in case you missed it: http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/connect-share/blog/art-itinerary-planning-interview-claudius-docekal/.

The third point is we are sorry if we have affected any of guests, but we are giving everyone 2+ years notice about this change. Even though some of the sailings you have settled on are now not available, we hope that you can find other voyages that will be equally of interest to you.

In the meantime, we ask for your patience until this process is done. We will let you know the new itineraries as soon as they are published. We expect this by the end of July.

I'm trying to get the full picture. Is the ship fully chartered for the entire period, or just charted for some of it which will require to you define a new schedule of cruises (redploying) you will be offering?

Edited July 24, 2014 by bob278

[BBMacLaird]

I'm trying to get the full picture. Is the ship fully chartered for the entire period, or just charted for some of it which will require to you define a new schedule of cruises (redploying) you will be offering?

 

Hello Bob,

it is the latter...and our Itinerary Planner, Claudius, is busy reworking the voyages that will still be available.

That was what I meant earlier when I said we will let you know as soon as the new itineraries are available.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Bonnie

[bob278]

Hello Bob,

it is the latter...and our Itinerary Planner, Claudius, is busy reworking the voyages that will still be available.

That was what I meant earlier when I said we will let you know as soon as the new itineraries are available.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Bonnie

Thank you. I thought that might be the case but wanted to be sure it wasn't wishful thinking. That is potentially very good news as we really wanted to take the Aug 11 Fjords-North Cape cruise b2b with something as we don't want to fly to Europe for only two weeks. The 2nd - 11th of Aug is not showing up and the 26th isn't either. If the either the 2nd or 26th open up with an interesting itinerary, we may yet get to sail again with Azamara.

Edited July 24, 2014 by bob278

[Andy]

Hi Bonnie,

 

Thanks for your latest update. From what you posted previously, I absolutely thought the entire range of posted sailing dates would be chartered. Glad to hear that's not the case.

 

Without giving too much specifics, can you possibly provide any insights on how many sailings might be added to the schedule ? Or, how many days of sailings ? I'm very curious what percentage might be available to the public.

 

If nothing else, can you give us an estimate on when the new sailings are expected to be released ?

 

I've had the pleasure of meeting Claudius some time ago, and he's absolutely brilliant at what he does. As I've called him in the past... he's a walking encylopedia of destinations. I'm certain that Azamara's guests are in great hands !

Edited July 24, 2014 by Host Andy

[malcliz]

Thank you. I thought that might be the case but wanted to be sure it wasn't wishful thinking. That is potentially very good news as we really wanted to take the Aug 11 Fjords-North Cape cruise b2b with something as we don't want to fly to Europe for only two weeks. The 2nd - 11th of Aug is not showing up and the 26th isn't either. If the either the 2nd or 26th open up with an interesting itinerary, we may yet get to sail again with Azamara.

 

I was googling this as we were interested in the August dates but I noticed that the 2nd - 11th August 2016 is a "Baltic Debauchery' Cruise charter for a "non stop party" swingers cruise.

[TERRIER1]

Hi Terrier1,

I offer the following as an explanation, not as an excuse:

the creative artwork for this expiring promotion (ends on 7/31) was produced months ago, prior to the 2016 charter being signed. You can be assured the old dates will not be included in the upcoming new campaign that will be begin 8/1.

As for why your T/A hasn't been contacted yet, I cannot speculate. If you are definitely in "BK" status, then your agent will definitely be contacted.

 

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression the ship was charteed for the entire time period. What is "BK" status" The promotion I just received is much better than the one I received while booking on board. However, the promtion ends at the end of July. If the new itineraries are not available until after that date than I miss out on the promotion if there are cruises that I like during that time period on the Quest.

[autumn lass]

For those on this thread who had wondered about the impact of Saga taking staterooms, I spoke to Saga yesterday as they were packaging an Asian cruise we were interested in with flights and pre/post hotels stays which was attractive. I asked about V 3 Grade staterooms, I was informed that they didn't have a specific allocation of stateroom numbers and had currently only been allocated 5 V3 staterooms. Staterooms would be allocated by Azamara. I didn't enquire about their allocation at other grades. Once you had booked with Saga they told me that we would then continue to manage our reservation as we do now through the Azamara website. We haven't as yet decided on this cruise so haven't taken forward.

 

Hilary

[mara01]

For those on this thread who had wondered about the impact of Saga taking staterooms, I spoke to Saga yesterday as they were packaging an Asian cruise we were interested in with flights and pre/post hotels stays which was attractive. I asked about V 3 Grade staterooms, I was informed that they didn't have a specific allocation of stateroom numbers and had currently only been allocated 5 V3 staterooms. Staterooms would be allocated by Azamara. I didn't enquire about their allocation at other grades. Once you had booked with Saga they told me that we would then continue to manage our reservation as we do now through the Azamara website. We haven't as yet decided on this cruise so haven't taken forward.

 

Hilary

 

Interesting, the Saga brochure turned up in our post today, so basically they are doing what any other good travel agent can do, except the choice of Stateroom!

 

Need to sit down and study the brochure!

Edited July 24, 2014 by mara01

[BBMacLaird]

Hi Bonnie,

 

Thanks for your latest update. From what you posted previously, I absolutely thought the entire range of posted sailing dates would be chartered. Glad to hear that's not the case.

 

Without giving too much specifics, can you possibly provide any insights on how many sailings might be added to the schedule ? Or, how many days of sailings ? I'm very curious what percentage might be available to the public.

 

If nothing else, can you give us an estimate on when the new sailings are expected to be released ?

 

I've had the pleasure of meeting Claudius some time ago, and he's absolutely brilliant at what he does. As I've called him in the past... he's a walking encylopedia of destinations. I'm certain that Azamara's guests are in great hands !

 

In an earlier post of mine, #52, I estimated the new itineraries would be available by the end of July. Ever the optimist I misspoke. I have been told it will most likely be some time in August since there is much work that happens between the point that Claudius completes the itinerary and they are ready to be released...design, maps, system programming, etc.

[TERRIER1]

In an earlier post of mine, #52, I estimated the new itineraries would be available by the end of July. Ever the optimist I misspoke. I have been told it will most likely be some time in August since there is much work that happens between the point that Claudius completes the itinerary and they are ready to be released...design, maps, system programming, etc.

 

I fully understand the magnitude of the work and details to be sorted out. However, I would have expected that ACC would have contacted those affected by this change given us a heads up of what is happening. For example, exactly which cruises are directly affected by the charter and ACC plans and timelines for the cruises that will take place around the charter.

[bob278]

In an earlier post of mine, #52, I estimated the new itineraries would be available by the end of July. Ever the optimist I misspoke. I have been told it will most likely be some time in August since there is much work that happens between the point that Claudius completes the itinerary and they are ready to be released...design, maps, system programming, etc.

Thank you. I hope it will be out by late August when we are on a Celebrity ship.

 

I fully understand the magnitude of the work and details to be sorted out. However, I would have expected that ACC would have contacted those affected by this change given us a heads up of what is happening. For example, exactly which cruises are directly affected by the charter and ACC plans and timelines for the cruises that will take place around the charter.

 

Good point. Hopefully the charter(s) left a few cruises unaffected. If there are any, those could be released earlier. Why wait until everything from start to finish is completed? That would surely be appreciated by those on any unaffected cruises (or those who may be looking for them).

 

And a simple global announcement on the web site something like "The following cruises have been impacted by charter operations and are being reworked. Details on those that are cancelled/modified will be released by August 31 (or whenever)" would be a very customer-friendly thing to do.

[BBMacLaird]

Thank you. I hope it will be out by late August when we are on a Celebrity ship.

Good point. Hopefully the charter(s) left a few cruises unaffected. If there are any, those could be released earlier. Why wait until everything from start to finish is completed? That would surely be appreciated by those on any unaffected cruises (or those who may be looking for them).

 

And a simple global announcement on the web site something like "The following cruises have been impacted by charter operations and are being reworked. Details on those that are cancelled/modified will be released by August 31 (or whenever)" would be a very customer-friendly thing to do.

 

Hello Bob, I'll pass your suggestions here along to the marketing department.

Bonnie

[pickypicky]

I am a totally inexperienced cruiser, so forgive my ignorance. When the ship is chartered, do the previously advertised itineraries remain as planned, or does the charterer (is that a word?) set new itineraries?

Also, I have seen mentioned descriptions of the "tone" of the chartered cruises...how does one find out these things? i.e. "non stop party swingers cruise"?

[Andy]

I am a totally inexperienced cruiser, so forgive my ignorance. When the ship is chartered, do the previously advertised itineraries remain as planned, or does the charterer (is that a word?) set new itineraries?

Also, I have seen mentioned descriptions of the "tone" of the chartered cruises...how does one find out these things? i.e. "non stop party swingers cruise"?

 

Hi Pickypicky,

 

In most cases, the previous itineraries are scrapped, in favor of where the charter company wishes to sail - within reason. As an example, if the ship is in Europe, and is chartered for 2-3 weeks, they wont bring the ship to Alaska for logistical and financial reasons. For the most part, they usually stay in the same general area - but that's not always the case.

 

As for how you can find out what groups are chartering the ship ? We aren't allowed to discuss travel agencies on here, so as I always say - Google can be your best friend.

 

Hope this is helpful !

[pickypicky]

Thanks, Andy...I was very interested in the Aug. 16, 2016 Quest itinerary. Guess I'll just wait to see how it plays out.

[bob278]

Thanks, Andy...I was very interested in the Aug. 16, 2016 Quest itinerary. Guess I'll just wait to see how it plays out.

We want to cruise to the North Cape ion 2016 and like the Quest's Aug 11 itinerary. But since it's so much trouble to fly to Europe, we were going to add the Aug 26 repositioning to Barcelona to make a wonderful B2B adventure. I don't think we will take the Quest to the North Cape unless August 26 gets revived and is an itinerary we would like. I guess that makes us one of the risks Azamara took in that it might cost them 2 people for 29 days.

 

If we're lucky, the charters want the ship in the Med in early September. The Aug 26th cruise might morph into something from Amsterdam to Barcelona, Rome or Istanbul with 1-2 days added or taken out and we'll still have a great cruise. But they need to release it soon as Oceania will be opening up their North Cape cruise for 2016 in about 6 weeks and their 2014 and 2015 itineraries were both mighty tempting (and at 20 days, long enough for us to justify the flights).

Edited July 26, 2014 by bob278