Tipping, why the fuss?

[Can'tstopcruising]

I am sorry. I don't get it.

 

The system (pre-tipping for select; daily tip charge on account for traditional) has been in effect since select dining was introduced.

 

Even if there are a few pax who remove the daily tips, the system must be

working, or they would change it.

 

I highly doubt that Celebrity keeps the system to please non-tippers! They have removed so many of the things, we the average pax enjoy, without worrying about losing us.

 

Someone posted that he is a very generous over-tipper. Good. The system needs pax like that to offset those who don't tip.

 

This is a personal matter. No one should ever tell someone else what to do. (or refer to them as Cheapskates, which is very low IMO)

 

We each do what we feel is best and I am willing to bet that the vast majority of pax just leave the tips as they are.

 

Didn't someone mention the tempest in the teapot? That's all this is.

 

Live your life as you see fit and let the next guy do the same.

 

Worry about your own actions, not the actions of others (over which you have no control.

 

The End!

[hcat]

At least three American travel agents have advised me that I should have auto-gratuities removed for one or more of my children when I get onboard. This is without any "prompting" on my part.

 

If that is the advice many first time cruisers are receiving then no wonder the topic keeps coming up.

 

I think the cruiselines just don't care whether the staff members get a per passenger payment or not because if they did options and ambiguities would have been cleared up long ago.

 

Wonder why they would advise that..?????

[blindrid]

I much prefer the prepaying of tips instead of the envelope system. I found it extremely uncomfortable. My confusion is are we being unfair by not tipping more than the prepaids for expected service? The "dance" that we see from service the final night of the cruise also makes me uncomfortable. Are we being unfair?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The ones that do the "dance" are the ones I can do without. It's like we have short memories and a last minute schmoozing makes life better.

 

You are not being unfair. Sometimes, I do tip above but only to those that have exceeded my expectations or gone out of their way. It maybe 1,2 or 3 employees, maybe none. One's I never tip are the maître d and others that do nothing but the "dance". IMHO, too many people go out of their way to over tip.

 

Anyway, do as you see fit as it all works in the end.have a great day.

[Stede Bonnet]

Wonder why they would advise that..?????

I don't know because I made no complaint about tips.

 

Everyone is on about how Americans know how to tip and the English and Australians that have a problem with the gratuities.

 

I'm not convinced that fully describes the situation if travel agents are routinely advising customers on how to avoid paying the gratuities

[SuwaneeCard]

I have really wanted to stay out of this conversation, but I can't stand on the sidelines any longer. A couple of quick points & questions:

1) When =X= or any other line offers "Pre-Paid Gratuities" as a perk/incentive to book, where does that money come from?

If you follow the logic of those that believe that Gratuities, Service Charges, Hotel Charges (or whatever else you want to call them) added to you bill on a daily basis actually goes to the crew - then it comes out of the crews' collective pockets. Why are they so willing to play with the crews' gratuities??? That money paid in, and promotions paid out, comes from the general operating funds of the cruise lines. And you shouldn't believe otherwise.

2) With the exception of management, all of the hotel staff are co-employed. They are recruited, screened and hired by an agency in or near their country of residence and are offered contract positions based on their experience. Their contracts have certain guarantees, including wages, which are not subject to the whims of gratuities or passenger load unless they work in a bar setting in which case they know that a certain percentage of their income might be subject to gratuities. Once aboard, they are supervised by management.

The fine print in the "Gratuities" section tries to make anyone wishing to opt-out feel like a completely worthless human being.

I really wish we could get out of the psychological games that all of the main stream lines are playing and just price the cruise as it is with no add ons. If the price is too high, the market will work its magic.

[newyorkray]

As a regular cruiser, I prefer the old system of giving envelopes to the service folks at the end of a cruise. I always tip at least the minimum if service has been minimal but usually tip more. I might have liked the paying tips ahead if I knew for sure the service received the entire amount. (These days I don't quite trust cruise lines the way I did years ago.) Also when in the dining room the last night, or even with the room attendants, when I see others give them an envelope and I don't, I wonder do they know I pre-paid, and I must admit, I wonder if other guests think I'm cheap. I have traveled Europe and know they look at tipping differently but here in the US I usually tip at restaurants 20% unless the service is really poor. In my teens and early 20's I've worked in service industries dependent on tips so I know how it is. Now that I can afford to be a little more generous, I do. I remember how grateful I was at getting a good tip. Those who ever worked anywhere that tips were are major part of their income knows just what I am talking about.

[NLH Arizona]

I have really wanted to stay out of this conversation, but I can't stand on the sidelines any longer. A couple of quick points & questions:

1) When =X= or any other line offers "Pre-Paid Gratuities" as a perk/incentive to book, where does that money come from?

I would guess it works like most companies. The Marketing Department has a budget and if they offer a promotion, then those dollars to which the ship would have made with the gratuities which are given out as a promotion/marketing tool, will transfer into the ship's budget and from the Marketing Department's budget. Edited October 20, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[gek]

So, yeah, if you're traveling in a country or a mode of travel that requires tipping well, then, TIP!

 

 

Firstly, when you are on a cruiseship you are often not "in a country". These days most cruises have a very eclectic mix of passengers. The last two Celebrity cruises I have been on Americans have actually been in the minority. If I am cruising in (for instance) Asia on a ship mainly populated by non-Americans why should I observe American customs, particularly those that seem utterly ludicrous.

 

Secondly, making tipping compulsory surely destroys the whole point of it - to reward exceptional service.

 

It's not up to the passenger to ensure that the crew are paid properly. Gratuities should be include in the fare. Giving people the option of removing them is just idiotic.

[ECCruise]

Firstly, when you are on a cruiseship you are often not "in a country". These days most cruises have a very eclectic mix of passengers. The last two Celebrity cruises I have been on Americans have actually been in the minority. If I am cruising in (for instance) Asia on a ship mainly populated by non-Americans why should I observe American customs, particularly those that seem utterly ludicrous.

 

Secondly, making tipping compulsory surely destroys the whole point of it - to reward exceptional service.

 

It's not up to the passenger to ensure that the crew are paid properly. Gratuities should be include in the fare. Giving people the option of removing them is just idiotic.

 

This is a perfect example of why tipping threads live.

 

This poster totally misunderstands the entire system.

1) You must observe American customs because THAT IS HOW THE CREW ARE PAID. You don't tip, they don't get paid. Fact of life.

2) These charges are NOT to reward exceptional service. That is the way it is in your country. That is not the way it is on an American based cruise ship. Sorry, you are just totally wrong. Should it be different? Maybe, but it isn't.

3) Yes, it IS your responsibility to ensure the crew is paid properly because that is how it is structured. Sorry you don't think it should be that way, but that is the way it is. You don't like it? Only sail with cruise lines that do not have extra charges for gratuities. Which is not Celebrity. Or RCCL. Or Princess except for Oz based ships. Or Cunard. Or Oceania. Or many other lines.

 

Either live with the process or sail a different line. It is, unfortunately, that simple. Your approach, as you describe it, stiffs the crew.

Edited October 20, 2014 by ECCruise

[gek]

Yes I did, and discarded that idea immediately. Tips are automatically applied. If a person see this on their bill and does not understand why, they will ask why and be told. One way or another, they will learn the reason. They either knew in advance or learned why when they asked. If they then decide to remove the gratuities, they are doing so deliberately in spite of knowing the reason tips have been added. Claiming ignorance of the reason is not an excuse.

 

 

They will ask and be told what? That it is "for your convenience"? They certainly won't be told by the cruiseline that it is to ensure the crew get a decent wage. This will just start an argument about why the cruiseline doesn't pay their staff properly.

 

The problem is that the current system is based in the American tipping system but trying to cater for international customs as well. Some people get confused by this and just assume they are being ripped off.

[Lsimon]

As a regular cruiser, I prefer the old system of giving envelopes to the service folks at the end of a cruise. I always tip at least the minimum if service has been minimal but usually tip more. I might have liked the paying tips ahead if I knew for sure the service received the entire amount. (These days I don't quite trust cruise lines the way I did years ago.) Also when in the dining room the last night, or even with the room attendants, when I see others give them an envelope and I don't, I wonder do they know I pre-paid, and I must admit, I wonder if other guests think I'm cheap....

 

Two points:

 

First, if you have your automatic tips removed (and haven't prepaid) then my understanding is that the staff you tip in cash are required to submit an amount equal to the auto/prepaid amount to the pool. They are only allowed to retain tips in excess of the auto/prepaid amounts. So if your intention is to avoid the pool and get extra to the staff then it will not work.

 

Second, the staff definitely get a list of who has auto or prepaid their tips the second day before the end of the cruise. So they definitely know who has already paid their tips and who they might hope to receive cash from. This also ties into the requirement I discussed above that they submit cash tips into the pool if they are received from someone who has not already had their tips prepaid or auto-charged. Also, since the vast majority of the passengers now either have their tips auto-charged or prepaid no one will think twice if you don't hand out envelopes.

[gek]

This is a perfect example of why tipping threads live.

 

This poster totally misunderstands the entire system.

1) You must observe American customs because THAT IS HOW THE CREW ARE PAID. You don't tip, they don't get paid. Fact of life.

2) These charges are NOT to reward exceptional service. That is the way it is in your country. That is not the way it is on an American based cruise ship. Sorry, you are just totally wrong. Should it be different? Maybe, but it isn't.

3) Yes, it IS your responsibility to ensure the crew is paid properly because that is how it is structured. Sorry you don't think it should be that way, but that is the way it is. You don't like it? Only sail with cruise lines that do not have extra charges for gratuities. Which is not Celebrity. Or RCCL. Or Princess except for Oz based ships. Or Cunard. Or Oceania. Or many other lines.

 

Either live with the process or sail a different line. It is, unfortunately, that simple. Your approach, as you describe it, stiffs the crew.

 

I was basically playing devil's advocate in my post. For the record I am happy with pre-paid gratuities and I always tip extra at the end of the cruise. That's just me. I know many others who object vehemently to this tipping system particularly when they are sailing from an Australians port on a ship full of Australians. My argument is that it is the existing system that is stiffing the crew because it allows gratuities to be removed by people who shouldn't be expected to understand a system that is foreign to them.

[ECCruise]

I was basically playing devil's advocate in my post. For the record I am happy with pre-paid gratuities and I always tip extra at the end of the cruise. That's just me. I know many others who object vehemently to this tipping system particularly when they are sailing from an Australians port on a ship full of Australians. My argument is that it is the existing system that is stiffing the crew because it allows gratuities to be removed by people who shouldn't be expected to understand a system that is foreign to them.

 

I totally agree with you. And I agree that it is time that cruise lines either simply add a decent wage for crew into the fare or, if they insist on the gratuity model, make it impossible to be removed.

[boogs]

They will ask and be told what? That it is "for your convenience"? They certainly won't be told by the cruiseline that it is to ensure the crew get a decent wage. This will just start an argument about why the cruiseline doesn't pay their staff properly.

 

The problem is that the current system is based in the American tipping system but trying to cater for international customs as well. Some people get confused by this and just assume they are being ripped off.

 

Interesting way to spin someone else's comment to support your own agenda about employee wages. Do you belong to a union somewhere?. :rolleyes:

 

Do you really think that the onboard customer service staff is trying to hide the fact that the gratuities are tips for the people who serve the passengers? You may be fooled into thinking otherwise, but don't try to fool me in return.

Edited October 20, 2014 by boogs

[swsfrail]

This is a personal matter. No one should ever tell someone else what to do. (or refer to them as Cheapskates' date=' which is very low IMO)

 

We each do what we feel is best and I am willing to bet that the vast majority of pax just leave the tips as they are.

 

The end![/quote']

 

I don't care to agree with you. You say that each of us should be able to do what we want, and no one has a right to call them names for it. That's taking the low road on the topic of stiffing the staff, which is what removing tips is really about in the end.

 

Removing tips because someone doesn't think they should have to pay it is akin to walking out of a store without paying for an item because they don't think they should have to pay for it. And don't come back and tell me "Not the same. One is against the law, one is not." It isn't a matter of what is lawful or not, but what is morally right or not. Stiffing the staff because someone don't agree with the policy is not morally acceptable in any way. There is no way anyone can defend such actions other than being driven by selfishness and lack of compassion for the hard working staff. If a person knows the policy (and I refuse to accept that people actually do not know!) and deliberately ignores it, no amount of rationalizing or excuses can overlook the fact that it is a cheap thing to do to someone else.

 

The end!

Edited October 20, 2014 by swsfrail

[newyorkray]

Bottom line is that it is a pretty lousy system from anyone's point of view. Cruise lines are able to get workers from poor countries where unemployment is high and earnings are very low compared to other industrialized countries. They want to sell us a product at the best price. I think everyone has to admit, at least here in the US that if you went to another city for a weeks vacation if you paid for a hotel, car rental, meals, and entertainment, it would be substantially more then any cruise. The tips are a part of the price whatever way you want to look at it. I agree with the writer who stated it is morally wrong to cancel the tips. Income inequality is a fact of life and those service workers are not paid well at all. Only those who lack a conscience would stiff them.

[cle-guy]

You're trusting that the money you put in actually goes where you are told it goes and not put into the general operating funds.

If the auto-grats actually went to the crew directly there is NO WAY they would let you opt out. They have a budget for crew payroll already established and paid from direct revenue, auto-grats are gravy for the operation.

 

Celebrity has published exactly how tips were disseminated. By the way, Laundry staff does not participate as you mentioned in a prior post, tips are paid out to those proofing face-to-face service.

 

It was broken out to dining room staff: Maitre' d, waiter and assistant waiter; guest rooms: cabin steward and additional staff, and those in suites pay an additional amount to the butler.

 

The funds do not go to the general operational fund, they are paid out to staff. That Celebrity provides a list to staff of who has and has not paid tips, surely lets the staff know how much auto tip to expect in their pay. I like the idea of alerting staff to those who remove tips, as it allows the staff to query the guest as to what was lacking in the service provides, so that they can work to perform more closely to the expectations of the passenger.

[notjaded]

For those of you who do not tinker with the auto-gratuity, do you provide additional tips to your cabin stewards,butler, etc? If so, how do you calculate the tip? To whom do you give the tips?

 

Just to get it started, I figure that if I was in a hotel, I would leave $3.00 a day for the housekeeping staff. On a 14-day stay, that works out to $42.00. However, in a typical cruise, there are two cabin attendants, and although they do more than what a typical hotel housekeeper would do, they split the work. Last time, I tipped them each $40.00.

 

What do you do, and how much of it do you do?

[3dog]

This is a perfect example of why tipping threads live.

 

This poster totally misunderstands the entire system.

 

As I read this, I thought it was a post of what is misunderstood. And it might be, but reads as if the poster is instructing on what should be understood, when there is misunderstanding in the post itself.

 

1) You must observe American customs because THAT IS HOW THE CREW ARE PAID. You don't tip, they don't get paid. Fact of life.

 

The only thing similar to "American customs" is that there is an expectation that some of their wages come from tips. If it were "American customs", each passenger would be paying 15% of their cruise fare as suggested tips (not sure if it will go this way eventually, as it is already that way on bar bills).

 

2) These charges are NOT to reward exceptional service. That is the way it is in your country. That is not the way it is on an American based cruise ship. Sorry, you are just totally wrong. Should it be different? Maybe, but it isn't.

 

If it were based on "American customs", it is partly a "reward exceptional service" and partly an expected wage. Most U.S. based tools for determining suggested tips provides a range based on the impression of service. So again, if it were based on U.S. customs, there would not only be a range, it should be expected that an individual gratuity would vary within that range.

 

3) Yes, it IS your responsibility to ensure the crew is paid properly because that is how it is structured. Sorry you don't think it should be that way, but that is the way it is.

 

Might be quibbling on semantics, but it is NOT the guests "responsibility" to ensure the crew is paid properly, otherwise it would be most proper to make sure we give the cash to the crew directly (it is the only way I can "ensure" they get paid). When you prepay or have daily withholding, you are trusting that the cruise line is going to not only pass these funds to the employee, but will pass it in the suggested amounts.

 

You don't like it? Only sail with cruise lines that do not have extra charges for gratuities. Which is not Celebrity. Or RCCL. Or Princess except for Oz based ships. Or Cunard. Or Oceania. Or many other lines.

 

Either live with the process or sail a different line. It is, unfortunately, that simple. Your approach, as you describe it, stiffs the crew.

 

The current process is that it can be prepaid or it can be paid onboard either by a daily charge or to present to the crew member directly. AFAICT, all the cruise lines that withhold for the passenger allow the passenger to dictate how much will be withheld, including nothing. As this is proper and allowed by the lines, it definitely fits into "live with the process".

[3dog]

First, if you have your automatic tips removed (and haven't prepaid) then my understanding is that the staff you tip in cash are required to submit an amount equal to the auto/prepaid amount to the pool.

 

This is pretty much illegal everywhere, as the line cannot make an employee pay based on what is believed to be received. Doing so is tantamount to extortion.

 

However, if they have verifiable proof that wages are not reported, they can take disciplinary action (like reporting to an appropriate tax revenue branch, like the IRS).

[3dog]

The funds do not go to the general operational fund, they are paid out to staff.

 

I'll guarantee that the money received on prepaid gratuities by final payment goes into the "general operational fund", and then will be paid from that fund when the employee gets it some many days later (likely as a separate line on their wage statement, but in the same manner that their normal wages come).

[blindrid]

This is pretty much illegal everywhere, as the line cannot make an employee pay based on what is believed to be received. Doing so is tantamount to extortion.

 

However, if they have verifiable proof that wages are not reported, they can take disciplinary action (like reporting to an appropriate tax revenue branch, like the IRS).

 

Why I is everything "illegal" to support ones views. Tip sharing in the US is not illegal. You act like an agent for the Left Coast. You act like everything revolves around the beliefs and laws of the Left Coast. We all can't save the world worrying about "operational accounts" and the like.

 

Who truly cares?

Edited October 21, 2014 by blindrid

[JEDIKNIGHT]

Firstly, when you are on a cruiseship you are often not "in a country". These days most cruises have a very eclectic mix of passengers. The last two Celebrity cruises I have been on Americans have actually been in the minority. If I am cruising in (for instance) Asia on a ship mainly populated by non-Americans why should I observe American customs, particularly those that seem utterly ludicrous.

 

Secondly, making tipping compulsory surely destroys the whole point of it - to reward exceptional service.

 

It's not up to the passenger to ensure that the crew are paid properly. Gratuities should be include in the fare. Giving people the option of removing them is just idiotic.

 

I never said a ship is a country- that is a distraction from people not wanting to tip. I also said "mode of travel" - cruising IS a mode of travel and the need to tip is clearly disclosed.

 

Don't agree? Don't cruise - find another mode of travel.

 

"Include them in the price" - ok, so you are still spending the money for tips. Does it bother you so much that it's called a tip?

 

When I hear that, I'm GLAD there are pre-paid tips - frankly, I hope they RAISE pre-paid tips now.

 

Pre-paid tips are in because ahem, some people don't like tipping.

[3dog]

Why I is everything "illegal" to support ones views. Tip sharing in the US is not illegal.

 

It is not illegal to support a view, but it is illegal to make an employee contribute money that is not received (e.g. "you should have earned $100, so you will contribute that to the pool even if you didn't earn $100").

 

Though I will admit that re-reading the post to which I commented, I could have been hasty as to the my interpretation. Earned tips can be expected to be pooled and/or shared, but only those that are known to be earned.

 

You act like an agent for the Left Coast. You act like everything revolves around the beliefs and laws of the Left Coast. We all can't save the world worrying about "operational accounts" and the like.

 

Who truly cares?

 

Really ("act like agent for the Left Coast" "act like everything revolves around the beliefs and laws of the Left Coast")?

[K.T.B.]

They're just tips. Seriously. The people on the ships work their butts off to make sure we're happy. Yeah, some do a better job than others, but that's life. BARE MINIMUM they deserve automatic, pre-paid gratuities. However, I personally feel they deserve much more. Only once did I ever feel like a room steward did not deserve more than what I pre-paid. He did his job minimally, but I never saw him (or her, I'm not sure).

 

Anyway, as I said previously, if you can afford to cruise, you can afford to pay a few tips. The people on the ships NEED these tips.