Tipping, why the fuss?

[GUT2407]

G'day Fortinweb

 

If I cannot accept how something is done elsewhere, I will not go there. Simple as that. The same applies to travel in my own country.

 

 

I agree.

 

But a lot of people can not accept that when on a cruise one of the options is, sometimes, to remove auto tips. While ever the lines leave that as an option no one should complain if someone chooses to exercise that option.

[Can'tstopcruising]

I totally agree. Everyone makes this too hard/complicated.

 

Also, I see why people from the UK (or other countries with a non or limited tipping culture) find this annoying. But, When I visit the UK, almost all meals, for instance, are higher than similar meals here in the US. So I can't really see the difference (except psychological) between paying, say, $20 for a meal in the United States + $4 tip and $24 dollars in the UK, with no tip.

 

Actually I think UK prices run more than 20% higher, but surely some of that is because servers are not tipped, so the price is higher because their wages are higher. To me, it all comes out the same.

 

I can also understand how they feel.

 

It is difficult to change one's habits, especially as we get older and the habits get older as well!!!

 

When we were in the UK, we found that restaurant bills had a 10% tip added at the bottom along with the statement that it was optional. How could we remove it? It was not in our nature because of our tipping habit. Just the reverse of what people are arguing here.

 

I know there will be flamers because this is such a HOT topic, but if some pax do remove tips, I am sure it is made up for by other BIG tippers who like to add a lot of extra. It probably evens out in the end.

 

As for the crew's income. Don't forget that in their own countries incomes are not the same as in our countries. Whatever they earn on the ship goes a long way. They are very pleased with their earnings (including the tips of course and don't forget all is tax free!) and are happy to be working on the ships. Many are able to save and buy homes and/or businesses.

[3dog]

but I do believe the cruise lines instituted them because of people not paying tips the old way.

 

I seriously doubt that this is the case at all, or that it even was a consideration. For the most part, it doesn't really matter to the cruise line if an employee gets a tip or gets stiffed, as it plays little (if any) part in their business operation (other than concern that the employee isn't getting tips due to poor performance). Even a poorly tipped person earns much more than they typically would in their native countries. And on the whole, the vast majority of cruisers ensure that the employee gets decent tips (those that tip more than the suggested typically offset those that don't or even stiff an employee). All you need do is to look into the restaurant industry in the U.S., as the same occurs to servers there, and they typically take it in stride for the same reason (most customers are not only good about tipping, the generous ones do offset the poor ones).

 

I suspect that the primary motivation for pre-paid gratuities is that they get to hold onto your cash for 3 months or more, offering a better cash flow for the company as well as a better accounting of employee earnings (think of how many passengers that sail daily, and multiply that by 90 for the number of days they have access to your money before they have to consider passing it on to the employee). Also note that cash tips are earned right then, tips paid through the employer handling the transaction are usually paid some time after the transaction is complete (I don't recall hearing how long after a cruise the employee gets your tips, but on your next cruise, ask your stateroom attendant when they get their pre-paid tips).

[SheriffJoe]

I did not at anytime in my post suggest "stiffing" the staff.I stated in my post that I pay my auto gratuities and in addition I pay tips to those who have helped make my cruise enjoyable the additional tips go to my cabin steward, my main dining room waiters,I normally get quite friendly with two or three of the deck waiters and will tip them (on P&O ships there is no additional 15% charge levied on bar charges) waiters get a take of the drinks they serve, I also tip the pizza bar staff.

The point I was trying to make and to which some US cruisers have taken exception is prior to the major cruise lines coming under the control of US based company's , they basically catered for their own nationals and a few US based cruisers and they all had their own tipping cultures.

In the USA service staff have I believe always depended on tips for the majority of their pay, it's is not the culture in Europe or Australia.

Now that the major cruise companies have come under US control, tipping has become a major part of the Renumeration of service staff.

While having a vacation in the US I comply with US tipping Culture no matter the level of service. My suggestion of arrogance referred to the Companies not to US cruisers.

 

And MY reply to you WAS why wasn't it arrogant when Europeans controlled the cruise lines and they used the European system yet it is arrogant when American corporations own them and use our system?

[Sloop-JohnB]

I seriously doubt that this is the case at all, or that it even was a consideration. For the most part, it doesn't really matter to the cruise line if an employee gets a tip or gets stiffed, as it plays little (if any) part in their business operation (other than concern that the employee isn't getting tips due to poor performance). Even a poorly tipped person earns much more than they typically would in their native countries. And on the whole, the vast majority of cruisers ensure that the employee gets decent tips (those that tip more than the suggested typically offset those that don't or even stiff an employee). All you need do is to look into the restaurant industry in the U.S., as the same occurs to servers there, and they typically take it in stride for the same reason (most customers are not only good about tipping, the generous ones do offset the poor ones).

 

I suspect that the primary motivation for pre-paid gratuities is that they get to hold onto your cash for 3 months or more, offering a better cash flow for the company as well as a better accounting of employee earnings (think of how many passengers that sail daily, and multiply that by 90 for the number of days they have access to your money before they have to consider passing it on to the employee). Also note that cash tips are earned right then, tips paid through the employer handling the transaction are usually paid some time after the transaction is complete (I don't recall hearing how long after a cruise the employee gets your tips, but on your next cruise, ask your stateroom attendant when they get their pre-paid tips).

 

As I understand it...

 

Prepaid Gratuities were implemented when Select Dining came into effect... A request by Pax. Because Celebrity found it was difficult to find Wait Staff willing to work the Select Dining area as the Pax Customers they served nightly changed over the course of the cruise (vs Traditional Early or Late Seatings & Assigned Tables & Wait Staff).

 

Consequently, more & more Pax were removing the standard Daily Grats, which at the time in Celebrity Documentation stated that a portion went to "their Dining Room Waiter & Asst Waiter"... Evidently some Pax felt the overall daily breakdown amount was too high considering they moved around in Select Dining, hence they were more prone to going to Guest Services to have some / all of the Daily Grats Removed

 

Wait Staff complained as they were get short changed by cheapskate Pax

 

And Wait Staff said they did not want to work Select Dining

 

Celebrity found themselves in a tight spot... pax that wanted Select, but a lack of Crew wanting to work there

 

So they implemented Mandatory Prepaid Daily Grats For Pax who chose Select

 

So ya, contrary to what you said... it did matter a great deal to the cruise line that their Crew were tipped appropriately & happy

 

Really... If it was ONLY about holding onto your money for months pre cruise I can assure you that Celebrity would make prepaid Daily Grats a requirement for all Pax (the majority still choose Traditional Dining vs Select)

 

Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[Adidas4fun]

I can get a $30 bottle of wine at any chain restaurant. I usually can't get a $100 bottle of wine at a chain restaurant. So yes, there is significantly different service.

 

The previous mention of wine glasses was actually very accurate...up to and including the level of service on a ship. The MDR serves wine...it all comes in the same kind of cheap glass that requires pretty much zero knowledge. Then go into Murano or Tuscan Grill and your wine will be served in one of 4 different glasses based on the wine you ordered to accentuate both the bouquet and the flavor. That knowledge is service that you may only see as someone bringing you a glass. I know this to be true because I just got off the Reflection and took the Reidel Glass wine class and they told us this exact thing.

 

I live by the motto 'act like you've been there'. If the $11.50 difference is that big of deal, you're dining in the wrong restaurants. I've been in the service industry for nearly 30 years, I've had the debate more times than I want to count. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the place. And that's not meant as an insult to you or calling you cheap. I feel I must learn any customs to be able to function overseas and adapt to them.

 

I certainly don't think this post will change your mind, I just wanted to show that there is a different level of service you were assuming was not there

And that just shows how fixed you are in the mindset of tips. You have failed to understand the question and instead offer thinly disguised insults.

 

A cheap dinner for my partner and I is $200 and we often spend well in excess of that.

 

So try again. If I order a bottle of wine that is three times more expensive than that ordered by the table next to me will I get service that is three times better.

 

Think on that.

[3dog]

As I understand it...

 

Prepaid Gratuities were implemented when Select Dining came into effect...

 

Prepaid Gratuities was available well before Select Dining came into effect.

 

A request by Pax. Because Celebrity found it was difficult to find Wait Staff willing to work the Select Dining area as the Pax Customers they served nightly changed over the course of the cruise (vs Traditional Early or Late Seatings & Assigned Tables & Wait Staff).

 

Consequently, more & more Pax were removing the standard Daily Grats, which at the time in Celebrity Documentation stated that a portion went to "their Dining Room Waiter & Asst Waiter"... Evidently some Pax felt the overall daily breakdown amount was too high considering they moved around in Select Dining, hence they were more prone to going to Guest Services to have some / all of the Daily Grats Removed

 

Wait Staff complained as they were get short changed by cheapskate Pax

 

And Wait Staff said they did not want to work Select Dining

 

Celebrity found themselves in a tight spot... pax that wanted Select, but a lack of Crew wanting to work there

 

Much of the above may well be your understanding, but has little (if any) verifiable foundation.

 

So they implemented Mandatory Prepaid Daily Grats For Pax who chose Select

 

Select Dining was initially implemented with mandatory prepaid gratuities (as was the same on RCL). Officially it was because passengers could see a different server each night, and there wouldn't be the opportunity to reward servers at the end of the cruise. Unofficially..., well that would just be meaningless speculation.

 

So ya, contrary to what you said... it did matter a great deal to the cruise line that their Crew were tipped appropriately & happy

 

Happy employees is always a concern to an employer, but much of your conjecture is based on "cheapskate Pax" driving a problem, and though there are some, there are also generous ones and compliant ones. But the conclusion is still based on what appears to be an incorrect assumption that the initial implementation drove this requirement.

 

Really... If it was ONLY about holding onto your money for months pre cruise I can assure you that Celebrity would make prepaid Daily Grats a requirement for all Pax (the majority still choose Traditional Dining vs Select)

 

Cheers!

 

Note that I didn't say "ONLY", I said "I suspect that the primary motivation..." And it very much seems as if they are moving this way in increments, as making this change overnight would not go well with guests. It once was a courtesy for the passengers to pay in advance or on your onboard account. Now some passengers must pay in advance and everyone else must pay with your onboard account or take action to remove them. Many on the tipping threads have even suggested that everyone pay in advance and you cannot remove them.

 

It is all feeding this same result.

[katididnt]

What a storm in a teacup - just include it in the fare & then there won't be all this kerfuffle. If I like the itinerary of the cruise, I'm not going to kick about paying a couple of dollars extra. The staff on all the ships I have been on work very hard and often have to put up with rude ill mannered passengers.

Put a smile on your face and suck it up.

katididnt:)

[GUT2407]

What a storm in a teacup - just include it in the fare & then there won't be all this kerfuffle. If I like the itinerary of the cruise, I'm not going to kick about paying a couple of dollars extra. The staff on all the ships I have been on work very hard and often have to put up with rude ill mannered passengers.

Put a smile on your face and suck it up.

katididnt:)

 

 

Totally agree. What the price would increase $12 a day:eek:

[Sloop-JohnB]

What a storm in a teacup - just include it in the fare & then there won't be all this kerfuffle. If I like the itinerary of the cruise, I'm not going to kick about paying a couple of dollars extra. The staff on all the ships I have been on work very hard and often have to put up with rude ill mannered passengers.

Put a smile on your face and suck it up.

katididnt:)

 

Well said... Ya I don't get it either (cannot even fathom all the energy that some folks expend on this)

 

Soooo looking forward to the day that Celebrity either lists this as a mandatory Service Charge on their invoices, or does away with the practice and absorbs it into the cost of doing business (cruise fares rising appropriately to compensate ie : $ 12.00 to $ 15.50 US per person per day based on Booked Stateroom Category)

 

Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[boogs]

But a lot of people can not accept that when on a cruise one of the options is, sometimes, to remove auto tips. While ever the lines leave that as an option no one should complain if someone chooses to exercise that option.

 

The cruise lines are caught between a rock and a hard spot on this issue. While they know what people should do - pay the tips - they also know that some people will refuse to accept that simple idea and complain endlessly if they aren't able to remove the tips. An unhappy customer means a lost customer. So, in order to appease those that cannot be reasoned with, they allow them to remove the tips in the hopes of earning repeat business.

 

I personally think it is cowardly of the cruise lines to allow exceptions for the complainers in order to win their repeat business. For the cruise line management, they have nothing to lose. They potentially gain repeat business at no loss of revenue to them. Unfortunately, it isn't the cruise line that gets penalized, it is the staff that does. Which makes it a win for the lines but a loss for the hard working staff who deserve it the most.

 

I am also dismayed by how mean spirited those people are for removing the tips. They know full well why the tips are there, but obviously have no guilt at all from denying the staff their fair dues. There is only one word for it - "greed".

Edited October 20, 2014 by boogs

[karanadowns]

Tipping is fine when it is custom. Always prepaid gratuities and always have paid extra at the end of a cruise for excellent service. The blatant use of a tip on the table before service has happened to get priority service over those at the same venue is my complaint. I guess we just pony more and more and then complain when someone puts more on the table than we did. Given comments elsewhere I guess this type of preferential buying of service is okay. Tipping is institutionalised in areas where a living wage is not paid up front and is a necessary part of a living wage. Placing money on the counter before service in order to gain an advantage over orderly service (and often in house rules) is nothing more than a bully tactic to demand staff attention. But if it floats your boat don't expect to float others.

[GUT2407]

The cruise lines are caught between a rock and a hard spot on this issue. While they know what people should do - pay the tips - they also know that some people will refuse to accept that simple idea and complain endlessly if they aren't able to remove the tips. An unhappy customer means a lost customer. So, in order to appease those that cannot be reasoned with, they allow them to remove the tips in the hopes of earning repeat business.

 

I personally think it is cowardly of the cruise lines to allow exceptions for the complainers in order to win their repeat business. For the cruise line management, they have nothing to lose. They potentially gain repeat business at no loss of revenue to them. Unfortunately, it isn't the cruise line that gets penalized, it is the staff that does. Which makes it a win for the lines but a loss for the hard working staff who deserve it the most.

 

I am also dismayed by how mean spirited those people are for removing the tips. They know full well why the tips are there, but obviously have no guilt at all from denying the staff their fair dues. There is only one word for it - "greed".

 

 

Did you ever stop and think that some people might simply not understand, especially if they are from locations where tipping is not the norm. No you simply assume that it is greed.

 

And I don't but the excuse that the lines are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

As just one example Princess ships based in Australia year round have no daily service fee for Australians, it is all bundled in the cost of the cruise. If they can do it in one country why not in all?

[hammo]

Did you ever stop and think that some people might simply not understand, especially if they are from locations where tipping is not the norm. No you simply assume that it is greed.

 

And I don't but the excuse that the lines are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

As just one example Princess ships based in Australia year round have no daily service fee for Australians, it is all bundled in the cost of the cruise. If they can do it in one country why not in all?

 

Exactly. Bundle the cost -- we do not universally tip in Australia - we have a fair wage for a fair days work - tipping is cream . Relying on gratuities to survive is a foreign concept for us. Include the percentage in the cruise price - perhaps the cruise-lines need to realize you cant expect an employee to rely on gratuity to pay the bills.

[Sloop-JohnB]

Exactly. Bundle the cost -- we do not universally tip in Australia - we have a fair wage for a fair days work - tipping is cream . Relying on gratuities to survive is a foreign concept for us. Include the percentage in the cruise price - perhaps the cruise-lines need to realize you cant expect an employee to rely on gratuity to pay the bills.

 

I 100% get what you are saying... And wholeheartedly agree

 

However, the true problem lies in your closing statement...

 

See, those they employ "technically" don't have any bills in the normal sense that other workers / employees have ... In so much as the Cruise Co pays for the Employee's Room & Board, airfare to and from the ship etc.

 

Tip culture in America has a long and not a glorious past...

 

It gained momentum after the Civil War when it was law that those who were previously slaves must now be paid for their labour. Times were tough (on both sides of the equation) the Slaves were not in a position to negotiate. Those that wanted a task done that a Slave previously did, paid a very meagre amount for it... Or conned the worker into performing the task first, and then deciding what it was worth. Slave became an endentured servant... Especially so if they continued to live on the property of their Employer. And so began the "service industry's" history of not being paid a living wage, but having to depend on pleasing someone to the enth degree to augment any small wage that was paid.

 

In the last 150 years society has progressed far from those roots in many ways.

 

But, today tipping culture is engrained in North America... And the service industry is still where most of the under paid in society still reside... And where most of the undereducated, or new immigrants work.

 

Now instead of the rich plantation owner / individual taking advantage of the service worker it is a business / corporation.

 

In Canada there is a movement to get away from the tipping culture and implement a true living wage... Endorsed / led by our Federal Govt, a process that began here about 5 to 10 years ago. Not sure when we all will get there but we are making inroads slowly...

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/no-tip-restaurants-fight-to-gain-traction-1.2640476

 

Most Canadians are in favour of the movement... But old habits die hard (especially when one lives next door to the USA which influences our culture & economy greatly)

 

It also means a large change on both sides... For the workers & the businesses

 

Especially businesses where they become a lot more accountable for their employees well being (Higher Taxes - Workman's Comp - Health Benefits etc)

 

Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[Lsimon]

Exactly. Bundle the cost -- we do not universally tip in Australia - we have a fair wage for a fair days work - tipping is cream . Relying on gratuities to survive is a foreign concept for us. Include the percentage in the cruise price - perhaps the cruise-lines need to realize you cant expect an employee to rely on gratuity to pay the bills.

 

At one time Celebrity made prepayment mandatory for passengers from certain countries where tipping customs were different from the U.S. Don't know why they changed, perhaps the shift to prepaid and auto tipping eliminated most of the issue for them and allowing the tips to be removed eliminated the customer complaints. Also the employees DO AND ARE ABLE to rely on the gratuity to pay the bills. I realize that this seems unfair compared to your local customs but it is the way the cruise service staff has been compensated for many many years on these mass cruise lines. Because of this history and competition for pricing with other lines it would be difficult to change. It is also the way the system works for similar service employees in the USA and other countries for better or worse.

 

...See, those they employ "technically" don't have any bills in the normal sense that other workers / employees have ... In so much as the Cruise Co pays for the Employee's Room & Board, airfare to and from the ship etc....

Right idea wrong argument. The employees do work on the ship and have their expenses when at work mostly covered as you say. But the employees do not live their life on the ship. With rare exception they still have expenses back at home that continue even if they are not there, housing expenses, utilities and other expenses and a very large percentage have families back home that they are supporting. The fact is that even though they are relying on gratuities for the bulk of their income their overall compensation is attractive enough to endure the long periods of time away from home and the hard work on the ship.

[Sloop-JohnB]

Right idea wrong argument. The employees do work on the ship and have their expenses when at work mostly covered as you say. But the employees do not live their life on the ship. With rare exception they still have expenses back at home that continue even if they are not there, housing expenses, utilities and other expenses and a very large percentage have families back home that they are supporting. The fact is that even though they are relying on gratuities for the bulk of their income their overall compensation is attractive enough to endure the long periods of time away from home and the hard work on the ship.

 

Agree.

 

But for now with the structure of pay such as it is... Room & Board plus $ 50 a month... And The rest of their compensation be it Daily Grats and/or Extra Tips depends solely on the Pax (as currently structured) and not the Cruise Line.

 

If the tips suddenly dried up entirely... I don't think there would be too many volunteers for the job / personal hardship being away from home & family IF the Cruise Co did not compensate these workers in some other way financially

 

Someday perhaps there will be a change it how the Service Industry earns a living in North America (small base wage from Co + tips from Customer). But it is not going to happen anytime soon

 

That was my point

 

I am all in favour of change... Especially so if Celebrity was to drop the term Tips / Grats and call this some sort of Mandatory Service Charge

 

But until then... We have the system we have for this North American (RCCL Family) company

 

Folks who cruise from NA or anywhere else in the world have to realize this is the current model, and as such it should be respected (despite their own country's customs, or political POV on the matter of tipping)

 

Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[charlie52]

I much prefer the prepaying of tips instead of the envelope system. I found it extremely uncomfortable. My confusion is are we being unfair by not tipping more than the prepaids for expected service? The "dance" that we see from service the final night of the cruise also makes me uncomfortable. Are we being unfair?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sloop-JohnB]

I much prefer the prepaying of tips instead of the envelope system. I found it extremely uncomfortable. My confusion is are we being unfair by not tipping more than the prepaids for expected service? The "dance" that we see from service the final night of the cruise also makes me uncomfortable. Are we being unfair?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

No you are not being unfair... If you leave your Daily Grats in place you have fulfilled "your contract obligations"

 

If you are able to, or wish to, feeling that service by someone was Extraordinary... You are free to Extra Tip.

 

But it is certainly not a requirement, or even expected by Crew in my experience.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Cheers!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[boogs]

Did you ever stop and think that some people might simply not understand, especially if they are from locations where tipping is not the norm. No you simply assume that it is greed.

 

Yes I did, and discarded that idea immediately. Tips are automatically applied. If a person see this on their bill and does not understand why, they will ask why and be told. One way or another, they will learn the reason. They either knew in advance or learned why when they asked. If they then decide to remove the gratuities, they are doing so deliberately in spite of knowing the reason tips have been added. Claiming ignorance of the reason is not an excuse.

 

And I don't buy the excuse that the lines are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

As just one example Princess ships based in Australia year round have no daily service fee for Australians, it is all bundled in the cost of the cruise. If they can do it in one country why not in all?

 

You proved my point. The cruise lines have had to add the gratuities to cruises aimed at Australians for the simple reason that too many refused to go along with the norm and would remove tips. To counter that deliberate action - which only hurt the crew and not the cruise line - Princess included tips in the fare so now you Australians have to pay the tips regardless of how the service was. By complaining about the tipping policies in place virtually everywhere else Princess cruises, you have removed the opportunity to reduce tips if service was truly bad enough to warrant it.

 

In other words, you have removed some of the control over your cruise that everyone else has. All because too many of you refused to "understand" the policies most people seem to have no problem with.

 

Exactly. Bundle the cost -- we do not universally tip in Australia - we have a fair wage for a fair days work - tipping is cream . Relying on gratuities to survive is a foreign concept for us. Include the percentage in the cruise price - perhaps the cruise-lines need to realize you cant expect an employee to rely on gratuity to pay the bills.

 

The way cruise lines run their business seems to be working just fine. They are all profitable and business is booming. I don't see why there is a need to change a policy that is working.

 

What needs to be changed are the attitudes of people who insist that things be done the way it is done where they live. The thing these people refuse to recognize is that they are NOT at home, and things don't have to be the same. If you travel out of your country, at least be smart enough to learn the customs or policies in place where you are going.

 

Every time I travel to another country I encounter things that to me are a "foreign concept". Instead of complaining or deliberately refusing to go along with those concepts, I either understand what they are and graciously go along with them, or I enjoy them for their differences - which is one of the many reasons people travel to other places to experience.

 

It all boils down to knowing in advance what is appropriate behavior when travelling outside your country. To claim to be ignorant of the policies when spending a lot of money on an expensive cruise is either disingenuous or not very smart.

Edited October 20, 2014 by boogs

[dana77kc]

I think one of the difficulties some, certainly not all of us, Brits have is the fact that the cruise fare in the UK normally costs much more than the US equivalent.....so the pricing "culture" is different, in favour of US passengers. Because of that, some Brits feel it quite appropriate to adjust the tips in a downward direction, and do not buy into the "tipping culture" argument prominent on these threads.

 

As a couple who have cruised 30 times we fully understand and abide by the onboard "tipping" culture, but also understand why some Brits feel otherwise because of the adverse pricing factor described above!

 

Only when the pricing is the same for all Nationalities would I accept that the tipping practices should be identical for all. That is in the gift of the cruising companies, to ensure that pricing is broadly similar whether the cruise is booked in the US, the UK, Australia or wherever else in the world!

 

I am American. My husband is English. We used to argue about tipping whether we were in UK, Europe or USA (where we reside). Sometimes it got ugly. We finally agreed that in UK or anywhere outside of North America, he was in charge of tips. In North America I am in charge of tips.

 

We will be on Infinity next month cruising from San Diego back to Ft. Lauderdale. On Nov. 22, we will celebrate our twelfth wedding anniversary aboard ship. It has taken me twelve years of arm twisting to get him to agree that since we only sail X or RCCL, he concedes that cruise ships are designated as "American." HAPPY WIFE...HAPPY LIFE. He's a Keeper...

[cle-guy]

Hi Fortinweb

I perhaps should have not used the word arrogance, to put this into perspective.

I do not know if you have visited the UK.

But I have visited the USA a number of times and will be returning in the spring of 2016, while in the USA I conform with your tipping practices of 15 to 20% of the bill, over the three weeks of my vacation this accumulates to a lot of money.If you visit the UK you will not spend anything like this if you comply with UK tipping standards.

 

However the cost of things in the UK is proportionally higher than in the US.

 

For example, my Quad Grande Americano coffees at Starbucks in the USA is $4.05. In the UK it's GBP 3.75 or $6.05 USD based on today's pricing.

 

I';m not sure if Starbucks is considered a food item and is Zero rated for VAT, but assuming it's not, factoring it into the US conversion, makes the US price still $5.04, and if comparing to a US state with sales tax at a general rate of 7% makes it (20% less 7% = 13% net tax rate) $5.35.

 

I generally find in pubs that a beer I'd pay $5 in the US costs GBP $5 in the UK pubs.

 

So yes, the 20% adds to the price of your US vacation considerably, as does the higher standard pricing in the UK adds to the price of my vacation there.

 

Wether its int eh price of the item or added on after the fact, the bottom line is theres that much cash out of my pocket no matter what. Call it what you will.

 

I also don't understand why people care if it's called a gratuity, service charge resort fee or whatever. Anyone using that argument is just trying to mask their desire to not pay tips of any sort. Why does the vocabulary used and word itself have any matter in the discussion.

 

So the higher prices in the UK overall make it so that gratuities are not so important in the overall equation or culture, where the owed displayed prices in the US allow for the addition of gratuities, service fees, type or whatever one wants to call them.

[K.T.B.]

To cut to the chase here: If you can afford to cruise, you can afford a few extra bucks to tip those who working to make your trip enjoyable.

 

I always tend to be a heavy tipper anyway. The crew works incredibly hard and they deserve to be appreciated.

[JEDIKNIGHT]

I don't make excuses for the international crowd- sorry. Many of them read these blogs, many of them have access to tourist guides, books, other friends who have traveled to the USA and they *know* about tipping yet keep asking about it. Kinda like a kid who doesn't get the desired answer, and keeps asking.

 

Americans are always lectured "respect the local customs!" when abroad and that is very fair.

 

So, yeah, if you're traveling in a country or a mode of travel that requires tipping well, then, TIP!

 

It's disingenuous to say "i wish the business would just pay their people better!" well ok, but then your price would be HIGHER. IMO - many people seek excuses for not tipping, or tipping poorly.

 

I think it's a pleasure and a privilege to tip when service is good, and frankly, a duty to nicely complain when things aren't good.

 

I can't afford a private plane - so I fly commercial. Guess what, if I can't afford tipping, well, I would not eat out or cruise.

[mickey89]

Cheapskates are cheapskates what ever their nationality and they should be named and shamed. You shouldn't be surprised on the number of North Americans who's name would be on the list.