Tipping, why the fuss?

[SheriffJoe]

I would like to clarify that I didn't post to encourage others to argue.

 

I posted to state that it was quite simple' date=' a no brainer. Just leave the tips on and forget about it.[/quote']

 

I agree and with auto tips its really a no brainer now even for non North Americans who don't know the system. :)

 

BUT starting a tipping thread and expecting it not to get full of arguments and crazy drama is akin to drinking a quart of tequila and expecting to not be SMASHED!!! :p

[fleckle]

I wonder if there is some legal or regulatory reason why the continue to call the gratuity a gratuity instead of just calling it a service charge. Does any cruise line label it as such?

Holland America labeled it Hotel Service Charge and added it to our account each day.

 

I don't know why the different names are used by different cruise lines, but agree that "service charge" would be a better term to use than "gratuity" and could help to eliminate, or at least reduce the controversy about it.

 

Some hotels charge a "Resort Fee" even though they would not really be considered resorts.

 

[txflood33]

Holland America labeled it Hotel Service Charge and added it to our account each day.

 

I don't know why the different names are used by different cruise lines, but agree that "service charge" would be a better term to use than "gratuity" and could help to eliminate, or at least reduce the controversy about it.

 

Some hotels charge a "Resort Fee" even though they would not really be considered resorts.

 

 

True, but a resort fee usually covers parking(possibly valet) and in-room wifi....I'll prepay double the tips for in-room wifi

[NLH Arizona]

Holland America labeled it Hotel Service Charge and added it to our account each day.

 

I don't know why the different names are used by different cruise lines, but agree that "service charge" would be a better term to use than "gratuity" and could help to eliminate, or at least reduce the controversy about it.

 

Some hotels charge a "Resort Fee" even though they would not really be considered resorts.

 

They use Daily Service Charge on NCL and there are still the same thread and opinions that are on here. People swear that it is only tips on NCL, when it is called DSC, and that they don't need to pay it and have it removed. I really don't think it would matter what they called it, there would still be people that didn't agree with it and have it deducted from their account.

 

Resort Fees also covers WiFi, fitness center, etc.

Edited October 19, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[Sanjam cruisers]

I did not at anytime in my post suggest "stiffing" the staff.I stated in my post that I pay my auto gratuities and in addition I pay tips to those who have helped make my cruise enjoyable the additional tips go to my cabin steward, my main dining room waiters,I normally get quite friendly with two or three of the deck waiters and will tip them (on P&O ships there is no additional 15% charge levied on bar charges) waiters get a take of the drinks they serve, I also tip the pizza bar staff.

The point I was trying to make and to which some US cruisers have taken exception is prior to the major cruise lines coming under the control of US based company's , they basically catered for their own nationals and a few US based cruisers and they all had their own tipping cultures.

In the USA service staff have I believe always depended on tips for the majority of their pay, it's is not the culture in Europe or Australia.

Now that the major cruise companies have come under US control, tipping has become a major part of the Renumeration of service staff.

While having a vacation in the US I comply with US tipping Culture no matter the level of service. My suggestion of arrogance referred to the Companies not to US cruisers.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sanjam cruisers

[jszpira]

I worked for tips for a long time. Now that I am in a position in life where I am the one paying the tips, it brings me joy to give someone a couple extra bucks. I plan to prepay my gratuities so they people that help me out as assigned for their job receive their standard pay, and then bring a HUGE stack of $1 bills and disperse them to crew members that assist me throughout the cruise. Room service..extra tip. Bartender who makes a fancy drink...extra tip. Dining room server who brings me 6 lobster tails...extra tip :)

 

At the average of $12 a day Celebrity suggests for gratuity, most passengers are looking at paying less than 15% a day per person in tips (based on the cost of the stateroom).

 

If you haven't had a tip based job, I'll let you know that a dollar make a HUGE difference in a server/bartender/stewards day. It may not be a lot to you, but for them, small tips can add up and really boost their pay.

[Can'tstopcruising]

I agree and with auto tips its really a no brainer now even for non North Americans who don't know the system. :)

 

BUT starting a tipping thread and expecting it not to get full of arguments and crazy drama is akin to drinking a quart of tequila and expecting to not be SMASHED!!! :p

 

I think you are right!

 

Wow!

 

I was trying to put an end to all this!

 

I guess I should keep away from tequilla!!!!!

[fortinweb]

My suggestion of arrogance referred to the Companies not to US cruisers.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. It was a bit confusing who you were accusing of arrogance.

 

However, I think there is nothing arrogant about a cruise line run by American companies following American customs and culture even though they serve international customers. It would be confusing and completely unworkable if tipping policies were adjusted for each person based on the customs in their own country. Equally unworkable would be modifying the tipping policy based on what country the ship was visiting at the moment. The only method that can possibly work effectively is one that is stable and doesn't change every few cruises.

 

Do you also think the American companies that operate hotels and restaurants in popular US tourist destinations are "arrogant" because they follow American customs even though they are popular with international visitors?

Edited October 19, 2014 by fortinweb

[Ray in NH]

I wonder if there is some legal or regulatory reason why the continue to call the gratuity a gratuity instead of just calling it a service charge. Does any cruise line label it as such?

 

It seems like just calling it what it is would eliminate 90% of the complaints and confusion over "tipping".

 

Holland America refers to it as "Hotel Service Charge". I do not how easy/difficult it is to have removed/lessened. Do not know if this is caused by legal/regulatory reasons.

Ray in NH

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I think one of the difficulties some, certainly not all of us, Brits have is the fact that the cruise fare in the UK normally costs much more than the US equivalent.....so the pricing "culture" is different, in favour of US passengers. Because of that, some Brits feel it quite appropriate to adjust the tips in a downward direction, and do not buy into the "tipping culture" argument prominent on these threads.

 

As a couple who have cruised 30 times we fully understand and abide by the onboard "tipping" culture, but also understand why some Brits feel otherwise because of the adverse pricing factor described above!

 

Only when the pricing is the same for all Nationalities would I accept that the tipping practices should be identical for all. That is in the gift of the cruising companies, to ensure that pricing is broadly similar whether the cruise is booked in the US, the UK, Australia or wherever else in the world!

 

Your cruise prices are higher because you have more protection than those of us who purchase cruises in the US. Somebody has to pay for all that protection. I don't think it should be the hapless crew members who are not benefiting therefrom.

 

[cbr663]

Holland America refers to it as "Hotel Service Charge". I do not how easy/difficult it is to have removed/lessened. Do not know if this is caused by legal/regulatory reasons.

Ray in NH

 

Simply go to guest services and ask to have it removed. Guest services will ask why, and will then remove it.

[GUT2407]

Most Australian based ships bundle it in the fare.

 

But boy another tipping thread just what these boards need.

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi Fortinweb

I perhaps should have not used the word arrogance, to put this into perspective.

I do not know if you have visited the UK.

But I have visited the USA a number of times and will be returning in the spring of 2016, while in the USA I conform with your tipping practices of 15 to 20% of the bill, over the three weeks of my vacation this accumulates to a lot of money.If you visit the UK you will not spend anything like this if you comply with UK tipping standards.

I cruise with P&O which was entirely British owned and in fact owned Princess Cruises up to 2003 when it amalgamated with the Carnival Corporation to form along with Cunard Line Carnival UK plc.

P&O Hotel Crews have historically been made up of Indians and are now employing a large number of Phillipinos all of whom are very hardworking and keen to keep the customer(me) happy and they do. Tips on P&O are £3.95 per person per day, cheaper than US based lines, and as I said previously I have no problem paying. Cruise prices in the UK are based on a different model from the USA and therefore are more expensive.

No matter what nationality you are there will always be someone who will resent paying tips/Gratuities, here in the UK we call them tightwads.

I had no intention to insult yourself or any other U.S. based cruiser, just to point out the different attitude to tipping.

We are all on this earth for a short time and should use that time to the full, happy cruising to you and all US based cruisers,

[miched]

All this not news so what is your point!

 

Amen

 

Do we really need another tipping thread?

 

Hopefully Host Andy will lock it before it goes to far.

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

[CapeCodCruiser]

The real issue is the cruise lines do not pay the service employees a living wage. Without encouraging/enforcing a tipping/service charge the cruise line would have a very difficult time filling those positions. The solution would be o pay them a decent wage to begin with and let customers tip at will.

 

That would mean of course higher base price for the cruise...

 

If I receive sub-par service I do not run and remove my tips...I speak with the appropriate manager and give them the opportunity to creat an above par experience.

[NLH Arizona]

The real issue is the cruise lines do not pay the service employees a living wage. Without encouraging/enforcing a tipping/service charge the cruise line would have a very difficult time filling those positions. The solution would be o pay them a decent wage to begin with and let customers tip at will.

 

That would mean of course higher base price for the cruise...

 

If I receive sub-par service I do not run and remove my tips...I speak with the appropriate manager and give them the opportunity to creat an above par experience.

If they were to pay them a decent wage, and incorporate that amount into the fares, I wonder how many cruisers would then complain that the cruises are now too expensive for the every day John and Jill. Even though, we all know that most would pay it one way or another (either in the far or as the auto tip/DSC, etc.).

 

I do think, if the cruise lines would give it some thought, and all started charging the auto gratuities/daily service charge/hotel service charge into the fares (it wouldn't work if every cruise line didn't do it), the crew and passengers would make out much better. Why, well because the crew would get the wage they would have gotten if the auto gratuities, etc., were paid by every single customer (which we all know doesn't happen now) and they would also get tips on top of that by those customers that happily reward those that go above and beyond. And the passengers...well, they would probably get better service because the crew would be working harder to get those extra tips. For me, if they did it, I wouldn't notice, because I pre-pay my auto gratuities, daily service charge, etc., and tip addition when I feel that it is required.

[MizDemeanor]

So are you telling me that if you order a $30 dollar bottle of wine and I order a $100 dollar bottle of wine that the service I will get will be 3 times better than the service you get, cause my tip will be more than 3 times bigger.

 

For the scenario you describe, that is with me purchasing a $30 bottle of wine, and you purchasing a $100 bottle of wine, let's start with me as i will only get the wine glasses that sit upon the table.

[fortinweb]

Hi Fortinweb

 

I do not know if you have visited the UK.

But I have visited the USA a number of times and will be returning in the spring of 2016, while in the USA I conform with your tipping practices of 15 to 20% of the bill, over the three weeks of my vacation this accumulates to a lot of money.If you visit the UK you will not spend anything like this if you comply with UK tipping standards.

 

I have visited the UK about a dozen times for pleasure and for business, mostly Scotland, a couple of times Ireland, usually with stopovers in and around the area surrounding London where good friends of ours live. To date I have been in 38 countries on five continents, and will visit another seven Asian countries early next year. In all instances, because I was a visitor in that country, I followed the customs and traditions the locals had without complaint or judgement. Never did I think that "We do it different in the US, why can't they do it our way." Such an attitude I have fortunately never seen the need to have. I am a visitor in another country. I am usually there to enjoy the culture, customs, and sights these fine countries graciously allow me to enjoy. Never would I ever think to be so disrespectful as to think that the way we do it back home is superior. That is in insult to the local inhabitants, and I just do not do that.

 

If I cannot accept how something is done elsewhere, I will not go there. Simple as that. The same applies to travel in my own country.

 

I will say, however, that I found the prices for virtually everything I purchased in the UK to be much higher than in the US for comparable products or services. Car rentals are more expensive. Restaurant prices for similar food items more expensive. Hotels are more expensive. Services hired are more expensive. That is just the way it is. I accept that when I decide to visit, and I do pay those higher prices without complaint. It IS the gracious thing to do when a visitor in someone else's country or environment.

 

Criticizing how something is done somewhere else, a place I have voluntarily decided to go to, seems to be pretty stupid behavior to me.

Edited October 19, 2014 by fortinweb

[blindrid]

If they were to pay them a decent wage, and incorporate that amount into the fares, I wonder how many cruisers would then complain that the cruises are now too expensive for the every day John and Jill. Even though, we all know that most would pay it one way or another (either in the far or as the auto tip/DSC, etc.)..

 

You've officially hit my hot button when one states "if they were paying them a decent wage" argument.

 

My take is the employees opt for the work. No different than working at McDonalds in the US. They obviously have no problem filling the jobs so that tells me they are paying market.

 

I'm OK paying tips as that tradition has been in place forever. The only change has been the auto-tip to make things equitable. I think the biggest complainers come from over the pond which may have caused the auto tip due to cultural differences.

 

Anyway, have a good evening, R

[Adidas4fun]

For the scenario you describe, that is with me purchasing a $30 bottle of wine, and you purchasing a $100 bottle of wine, let's start with me as i will only get the wine glasses that sit upon the table.

 

Yes, I see - tipping really does produce better service

[NLH Arizona]

You've officially hit my hot button when one states "if they were paying them a decent wage" argument.

 

My take is the employees opt for the work. No different than working at McDonalds in the US. They obviously have no problem filling the jobs so that tells me they are paying market.

 

I'm OK paying tips as that tradition has been in place forever. The only change has been the auto-tip to make things equitable. I think the biggest complainers come from over the pond which may have caused the auto tip due to cultural differences.

 

Anyway, have a good evening, R

Sorry I hit your hot button, I was just answering the poster and instead of using the words he did "living wage", I used the word decent, meaning a total of their regular wage and tips added together, which would give them a regular wage, instead of a wage that is dependent upon others who may or may not tip them.

 

I agree they do opt for the work and I'm sure that when they are hired the cruise lines explain to them that they will make X and then an additional up to X amount from auto gratuities, etc. The only way to know the satisfaction of the employees is to know the turn over rate on the ships and why folks don't renew their contracts. It would also be interesting to know what figures the cruise line gives them upon being hired versus what they actually make. The difference is at McDonalds, none of the wages are determined by their customers, it is a flat hourly rate based on how many hours they work. and they know each week what their paycheck will be.

 

I'm not sure who was the reason for the auto-tips, but I do believe the cruise lines instituted them because of people not paying tips the old way. I've been on over 30 (probably 35 by now) cruises and you would see it on every cruise (before auto tips were put in place) on the last night in the MDR, people just didn't show up and I always felt very sad for the hard working crew members who got stiffed, so if by making them automatic, I'm sure it dropped the number of non-tippers down considerably, because I'm not sure how many really want to go to guest services and ask for their tips to be deducted from their bill.

 

You have a good evening as well.

[ECCruise]

You've officially hit my hot button when one states "if they were paying them a decent wage" argument.

 

My take is the employees opt for the work. No different than working at McDonalds in the US. They obviously have no problem filling the jobs so that tells me they are paying market.

 

I'm OK paying tips as that tradition has been in place forever. The only change has been the auto-tip to make things equitable. I think the biggest complainers come from over the pond which may have caused the auto tip due to cultural differences.

 

Anyway, have a good evening, R

 

They opt for the work ONLY because of the tipping situation. Otherwise they would earn $50 per month (service employees only). It is VERY different from working at McDonalds. I can't go there and say "cut my check by 25% because I think it is too high." With the gratuity structure the way it exists on most cruise ships, you CAN cut an employee's wages by stiffing on the tips.

[blindrid]

They opt for the work ONLY because of the tipping situation. Otherwise they would earn $50 per month (service employees only). It is VERY different from working at McDonalds. I can't go there and say "cut my check by 25% because I think it is too high." With the gratuity structure the way it exists on most cruise ships, you CAN cut an employee's wages by stiffing on the tips.

 

Correct. But I think they know what to expect on average. I'm sure their tips don't change much, week in and week out.

 

To NlH, don't take my "hot button" comment too seriously. Thank you and have a good evening.

[txflood33]

Yes, I see - tipping really does produce better service

 

I can get a $30 bottle of wine at any chain restaurant. I usually can't get a $100 bottle of wine at a chain restaurant. So yes, there is significantly different service.

 

The previous mention of wine glasses was actually very accurate...up to and including the level of service on a ship. The MDR serves wine...it all comes in the same kind of cheap glass that requires pretty much zero knowledge. Then go into Murano or Tuscan Grill and your wine will be served in one of 4 different glasses based on the wine you ordered to accentuate both the bouquet and the flavor. That knowledge is service that you may only see as someone bringing you a glass. I know this to be true because I just got off the Reflection and took the Reidel Glass wine class and they told us this exact thing.

 

I live by the motto 'act like you've been there'. If the $11.50 difference is that big of deal, you're dining in the wrong restaurants. I've been in the service industry for nearly 30 years, I've had the debate more times than I want to count. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the place. And that's not meant as an insult to you or calling you cheap. I feel I must learn any customs to be able to function overseas and adapt to them.

 

I certainly don't think this post will change your mind, I just wanted to show that there is a different level of service you were assuming was not there

[Nebr.cruiser]

I would like to clarify that I didn't post to encourage others to argue.

 

I posted to state that it was quite simple' date=' a no brainer. Just leave the tips on and forget about it.[/quote']

 

I totally agree. Everyone makes this too hard/complicated.

 

Also, I see why people from the UK (or other countries with a non or limited tipping culture) find this annoying. But, When I visit the UK, almost all meals, for instance, are higher than similar meals here in the US. So I can't really see the difference (except psychological) between paying, say, $20 for a meal in the United States + $4 tip and $24 dollars in the UK, with no tip.

 

Actually I think UK prices run more than 20% higher, but surely some of that is because servers are not tipped, so the price is higher because their wages are higher. To me, it all comes out the same.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Nebr.cruiser