Tipping, why the fuss?

[Can'tstopcruising]

I don't understand all the fuss about tipping.

 

If you have select dining, you prepay.

 

If not, you are charged daily.

 

If you use any service which requires tipping, they automatically add it to your bill.

 

If you wish to tip extra, you can do so.

 

If you don't, that's fine, too.

 

No worries, no problems.

[orchestrapal]

I don't understand all the fuss about tipping.

 

If you have select dining' date=' you prepay.

If not, you are charged daily.

If you use any service which requires tipping, they automatically add it to your bill.

If you wish to tip extra, you can do so.

If you don't, that's fine, too.

No worries, no problems.[/quote']

 

All this not news so what is your point!

[cruisestitch]

It does seem to be news to cruisers who aren't from the US, for some of whom the tipping culture is mysterious, complicated and daunting.

[ECCruise]

It does seem to be news to cruisers who aren't from the US, for some of whom the tipping culture is mysterious, complicated and daunting.

 

 

I agree.

There often is a disconnect. We have, a number of times, seen pax go to the Purser, removed all their gratuities and said they would only tip when they received "stellar service." So, in other words, if their steward merely maintained their room and their wait staff merely served them their meals, there was absolutely no reason for a gratuity. This has been told directly to us, several times, not related by a third person.

 

To clarify:

Gratuities are virtually the ONLY compensation that service crew receive. This means dining room staff (MDR and Ocean View which pretty mcuh are the same) and room stewards. Their "salary" is $50 per month. Yes, they receive room and board. When you remove your daily gratuity and do not replace it, dollar for dollar (or more), in the employee's hand, you are doing a major disservice to that person.

 

I am fully aware that tipping practices vary greatly on land from country to country. They do NOT, however, vary on cruise ships unless (e.g. Azamara) gratuities are included in your cruise fare. If they are extra, it is your obligation to pay them. I have added the following comment on every comment card (until we stopped receiving them) in the last 7 or 8 years.

"Please do NOT give the option for passengers to remove their gratuities." Other cruise lines will refuse to remove them (they can designate as a "service charge") and Celebrity should do the same.

 

Rant ended :D

[txflood33]

I would add this though....just returning from Europe and dining in restaurants/cafes in Rome, Naples, Mykonos, Athens, Santorini and Istanbul

 

The best service we got was in Santorini...the bartender was from Santa Barbara, CA. The service over there is sub par. They would all starve to death if they worked for tips.

 

I've been in the service industry for 27 years and my wife had a short stint in it as well. If we could get a place and give service like in America or on the boat we would make a killing.

[Adidas4fun]

So are you telling me that if you order a $30 dollar bottle of wine and I order a $100 dollar bottle of wine that the service I will get will be 3 times better than the service you get, cause my tip will be more than 3 times bigger.

[emmieepoo]

I agree.

There often is a disconnect. We have, a number of times, seen pax go to the Purser, removed all their gratuities and said they would only tip when they received "stellar service." So, in other words, if their steward merely maintained their room and their wait staff merely served them their meals, there was absolutely no reason for a gratuity. This has been told directly to us, several times, not related by a third person.

 

To clarify:

Gratuities are virtually the ONLY compensation that service crew receive. This means dining room staff (MDR and Ocean View which pretty mcuh are the same) and room stewards. Their "salary" is $50 per month. Yes, they receive room and board. When you remove your daily gratuity and do not replace it, dollar for dollar (or more), in the employee's hand, you are doing a major disservice to that person.

 

I am fully aware that tipping practices vary greatly on land from country to country. They do NOT, however, vary on cruise ships unless (e.g. Azamara) gratuities are included in your cruise fare. If they are extra, it is your obligation to pay them. I have added the following comment on every comment card (until we stopped receiving them) in the last 7 or 8 years.

"Please do NOT give the option for passengers to remove their gratuities." Other cruise lines will refuse to remove them (they can designate as a "service charge") and Celebrity should do the same.

 

Rant ended :D

 

so you should pay for something that you don't think is up to par?

[fortinweb]

I agree.

There often is a disconnect. We have, a number of times, seen pax go to the Purser, removed all their gratuities and said they would only tip when they received "stellar service." So, in other words, if their steward merely maintained their room and their wait staff merely served them their meals, there was absolutely no reason for a gratuity. This has been told directly to us, several times, not related by a third person.

 

To clarify:

Gratuities are virtually the ONLY compensation that service crew receive. This means dining room staff (MDR and Ocean View which pretty mcuh are the same) and room stewards. Their "salary" is $50 per month. Yes, they receive room and board. When you remove your daily gratuity and do not replace it, dollar for dollar (or more), in the employee's hand, you are doing a major disservice to that person.

 

I am fully aware that tipping practices vary greatly on land from country to country. They do NOT, however, vary on cruise ships unless (e.g. Azamara) gratuities are included in your cruise fare. If they are extra, it is your obligation to pay them. I have added the following comment on every comment card (until we stopped receiving them) in the last 7 or 8 years.

"Please do NOT give the option for passengers to remove their gratuities." Other cruise lines will refuse to remove them (they can designate as a "service charge") and Celebrity should do the same.

 

Rant ended :D

 

Any experienced traveler will make the effort to learn the customs of the countries and cultures they will be visiting. To not do so is disrespectful to the locals. For example, a respectful traveler would dress appropriately when visiting some countries, especially in their churches and sacred sites.

 

Cruise ships are no different. They have a culture of their own, typically based on the country the corporate management team resides in. A respectful traveler would honor that culture by respecting those customs, from how they behave to how they tip.

 

We have all heard the term "Ugly American". It describes an American tourist who behaves offensively when abroad. The same could be said for people from other countries who refuse to show respect for the culture on a cruise ship, especially relating to tips or treatment of the staff.

 

Being an "Ugly" tourist is not exclusively an American trait. Is also practiced by some people from other countries. We see it often on these threads when people insist they will remove the tips from their account because "that is not the way we do it in my country".

Edited October 19, 2014 by fortinweb

[Sloop-JohnB]

I don't understand all the fuss about tipping.

 

If you have select dining' date=' you prepay.

[b']If not, you are charged daily.[/b]

If you use any service which requires tipping, they automatically add it to your bill.

If you wish to tip extra, you can do so.

If you don't, that's fine, too.

No worries, no problems.

 

The fuss as you call it...

 

Is because sadly TOO MANY Pax don't understand the difference between Daily Grats & Extra Tips (vs the 15% to 18% Auto Grat on some specific items... Beverage Services, Spa Services etc)

 

And therefore CHOOSE to Remove all or some of the Daily Grats

 

Here is a cut & paste of a post I did recently on the topic:

 

I agree with you on the Service Charge being implemented vs this crazy current Daily Grats system (where people can & do opt out)

 

But disagree on your thoughts (in principle) on the team...

 

Many times how great a particular person you see performs, depends on those you don't see who are behind the scenes

 

This is very much the case when it comes to food & housekeeping

 

And on a ship, vs land... None of these folks get anywhere near a living wage (as you & I would define it... But that is a whole other very POLITICAL discussion for another time)

 

They get primarily Room & Board on the ship (and something so small a wage... It could more correctly be called a stipend). So they wholly depend on Grats & Extra Tips to augment that

[/Quote]

 

AND...

 

 

There are at least 3 different groups (pools) on Celebrity Ships.

 

Group 1 - Beverage Service

 

This is the 15% Grats that are automatically charged when you buy a drink. This 15% goes into the beverage pool, and is divided up amongst all the Bartenders, Sommeliers, and Drink Servers.

 

Although no one truly knows how that is divided up... Is it in equal installments paid say weekly / monthly, or based on Shifts worked, or by drinks served by individuals (when they swipe a card... Certainly Celebrity collects enough info that this last feature could happen)

 

Extra Tips given to these individuals are theirs to keep

 

Group 2 - Specialty Dining Cafes & Restaurants

 

We know that the charge for Specialty Dining includes a factor in the charge for Grats... How much is unclear (certainly MDR Dining Grats amounts are no where near say 15%). What is know is those that serve you in Specialty Dining are part of a team... So assigned Grats would be divided among all those people.

 

Extra Tips can be left if you like, but it is unclear how they are handled (does not matter if they are cash or written onto the chit). Whether the individual you give them to keeps them... Or if they must report them & share them (much in the same way on land often Waiters are required to "tip out" other members of their team)

 

Group 3 - Housekeeping & Food Service Staff

 

This last group are those that account for the largest workforce on the ship. Their Grats come from the amount that you are charged per day on your cruise. It used to be that Celebrity broke down the daily fee to show who got how much of that daily rate, but they have stopped doing that. We assume it is because Celebrity is gradually making the move towards making Daily Grats a standard line item on ones cruise fare... In the same way as there is one for Fees & Taxes (a move many support... But something that has come about because sadly some Pax still go to Guest Services to have the Daily Grats removed... Often without just cause... Other than they can / don't want to pay them)

 

If someone leaves Daily Grats in place, the Crew in question (ie Room Steward) knows that. So then if you choose to Extra Tip that individual is free to keep any Extra Tip they are given.

 

If someone REMOVES Daily Grats entirely, or in any part... Again the Crew member has been told. In which case if you Extra Tip anyone on that team (ie Room Steward - MDR Waiter) then they must report having received a Tip from you which is then put into that Team's Pool.

 

In this way... No one on the team loses out / suffers just because a Pax chose to be a cheapskate !!

 

The team structure takes care of each other.

 

People often justify removing Daily Grats because they say they don't eat in the MDR... What they don't comprehend tho is the Waiter in the MDR at Dinner works a 10 to 12 Hour shift... And not just serves Dinner. They are the same folks who serve Breakfast & Lunch in a wide scope of other venues (available to all Pax) besides just the MDR

 

Hope that helps explain how it all works,

[/Quote]

 

 

Untll Celebrity makes Daily Grats a non-removable Service Charge, too many of the Crew needlessly suffer due to cheapskate cruisers... And their JUSTIFICATION posts here on CC

 

Cheers!

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[hcat]

There are also many people just do not WANT to understand it...we always pre pay grats...so much easier...and then add more along the way when merited!

[Lsimon]

I wonder if there is some legal or regulatory reason why the continue to call the gratuity a gratuity instead of just calling it a service charge. Does any cruise line label it as such?

 

It seems like just calling it what it is would eliminate 90% of the complaints and confusion over "tipping".

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Any experienced traveler will make the effort to learn the customs of the countries and cultures they will be visiting. To not do so is disrespectful to the locals. For example, a respectful traveler would dress appropriately when visiting some countries, especially in their churches and sacred sites.

 

Cruise ships are no different. They have a culture of their own, typically based on the country the corporate management team resides in. A respectful traveler would honor that culture by respecting those customs, from how they behave to how they tip.

 

We have all heard the term "Ugly American". It describes an American tourist who behaves offensively when abroad. The same could be said for people from other countries who refuse to show respect for the culture on a cruise ship, especially relating to tips or treatment of the staff.

 

Being an "Ugly" tourist is not exclusively an American trait. Is also practiced by some people from other countries. We see it often on these threads when people insist they will remove the tips from their account because "that is not the way we do it in my country".

 

LIKE! Very well put.

 

Linda

 

[Can'tstopcruising]

I don't understand all the fuss about tipping.

 

If you have select dining' date=' you prepay.

 

If not, you are charged daily.

 

If you use any service which requires tipping, they automatically add it to your bill.

 

If you wish to tip extra, you can do so.

 

If you don't, that's fine, too.

 

No worries, no problems.[/quote']

 

From your replies, it sounds like you feel that many who do not prepay end up removing their daily tips.

 

I wouldn't know if any or many pax do this.

 

But I am sure that if a pax is dead set against tipping, no matter what anyone here says, he or she will not tip. I doubt that there are very many, but maybe I am wrong. I do not know what the next person does and it is not my business.

 

I don't know why only the select diners prepay. I guess the decision-makers at Celebrity have very logical reasons!!

Edited October 19, 2014 by Can'tstopcruising

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi Fortinweb

I have read your post with interest, I have cruised with a British cruise line since 2005 which is now part of Carnival Corporation. This cruise line has a much lower level of gratuities than American Based cruise lines. I pay my auto gratuities and also leave an extra tip to those staff who in my opinion have went that little bit further to make my cruise enjoyable.However we in the UK have a totally different outlook on tipping to those in the USA, in the UK we tip for service above what would normally be expected, whereas in the USA I believe tipping makes up the major part of the service staffs Renumeration.I have visited the USA on a number of occasions and when there I comply with US tipping conventions even when in my opinion the service provided has not come up to my expectations.

All the major cruise lines now have basically a US senior management structure which cater for a very diverse group of nationalities all who have different tipping cultures and I find it a very arrogant attitude to adopt that just because these companies managers are US we should all adopt US tipping standards.

Up until the eighties the majority of cruise companies were non US owned and they all had their own tipping criteria, it is only with the US dominance of the cruise market that this has become an issue.

[SheriffJoe]

Hi Fortinweb

I have read your post with interest, I have cruised with a British cruise line since 2005 which is now part of Carnival Corporation. This cruise line has a much lower level of gratuities than American Based cruise lines. I pay my auto gratuities and also leave an extra tip to those staff who in my opinion have went that little bit further to make my cruise enjoyable.However we in the UK have a totally different outlook on tipping to those in the USA, in the UK we tip for service above what would normally be expected, whereas in the USA I believe tipping makes up the major part of the service staffs Renumeration.I have visited the USA on a number of occasions and when there I comply with US tipping conventions even when in my opinion the service provided has not come up to my expectations.

All the major cruise lines now have basically a US senior management structure which cater for a very diverse group of nationalities all who have different tipping cultures and I find it a very arrogant attitude to adopt that just because these companies managers are US we should all adopt US tipping standards.

Up until the eighties the majority of cruise companies were non US owned and they all had their own tipping criteria, it is only with the US dominance of the cruise market that this has become an issue.

 

An interesting thought process you have there.....so let me see if I comprehended you correctly...... when cruise lines were European owned and they used European tipping standards that was all fine and dandy but now that they are owned by American interests and they use American tipping standards its arrogant and an issue???? hmmmmm......I do see some arrogance here but its not with the tipping policies.:rolleyes:

[Can'tstopcruising]

I would like to clarify that I didn't post to encourage others to argue.

 

I posted to state that it was quite simple, a no brainer. Just leave the tips on and forget about it.

[NLH Arizona]

I wonder if there is some legal or regulatory reason why the continue to call the gratuity a gratuity instead of just calling it a service charge. Does any cruise line label it as such?

 

It seems like just calling it what it is would eliminate 90% of the complaints and confusion over "tipping".

I've read a lot of different reasons why they can not just call it a service charge and automatically charge it. One being that there would have to be paid taxes on it. Another said they would have to put it inside the fare and not call it a service charge because that would not be legal in some countries. Another was that it would increase the fare by $80 some dollars and unless all cruise lines did it, they could be priced higher than the others. I have no idea if any of these or the other reasons are correct or not, just passing along what I've read.

 

I like the automatic system much better than the old days, when you gave out envelopes on the last evening. One reason is because many just didn't show up the last night and the servers were stiffed. Another is I hated the envelope thing, it was just uncomfortable in my opinion. I just leave the auto gratuities in place and tip over and above for above and beyond service.

[fortinweb]

Hi Fortinweb

I have read your post with interest, I have cruised with a British cruise line since 2005 which is now part of Carnival Corporation. This cruise line has a much lower level of gratuities than American Based cruise lines. I pay my auto gratuities and also leave an extra tip to those staff who in my opinion have went that little bit further to make my cruise enjoyable.However we in the UK have a totally different outlook on tipping to those in the USA, in the UK we tip for service above what would normally be expected, whereas in the USA I believe tipping makes up the major part of the service staffs Renumeration.I have visited the USA on a number of occasions and when there I comply with US tipping conventions even when in my opinion the service provided has not come up to my expectations.

All the major cruise lines now have basically a US senior management structure which cater for a very diverse group of nationalities all who have different tipping cultures and I find it a very arrogant attitude to adopt that just because these companies managers are US we should all adopt US tipping standards.

Up until the eighties the majority of cruise companies were non US owned and they all had their own tipping criteria, it is only with the US dominance of the cruise market that this has become an issue.

 

Really? What a distorted view you seem to have. What would you say if I visited your country and ignored your local customs because I thought it was arrogant to expect visitors to abide by your rules, standards and customs?

 

What I think is arrogant is someone who insists that how things are done in their home country is the way it should be done everywhere else. If that were the case, the British Empire would not have been decimated as countries under their rule rebelled to establish their own rules and customs because they found the British way unacceptable. :rolleyes:

Edited October 19, 2014 by fortinweb

[NLH Arizona]

All the major cruise lines now have basically a US senior management structure which cater for a very diverse group of nationalities all who have different tipping cultures and I find it a very arrogant attitude to adopt that just because these companies managers are US we should all adopt US tipping standards.

 

I guess I would have to ask which country's tipping culture should the cruise lines adopt in order not to have a very arrogant attitude? It would seem to me, that no matter which country's tipping culture they would use, there would always be someone who would disagree with it. Just saying.

 

I could be incorrect, but I was told the cruise lines went to the auto gratuities because many folks just didn't tip, even for outstanding service. But then, maybe those folks would think we should go back to the old ways of doing it, so they didn't have to go to guest services to have the auto gratuities removed.

[fortinweb]

I could be incorrect, but I was told the cruise lines went to the auto gratuities because many folks just didn't tip, even for outstanding service. But then, maybe those folks would think we should go back to the old ways of doing it, so they didn't have to go to guest services to have the auto gratuities removed.

 

Perhaps they would prefer a bartering economy on cruise ships? The service staff would provide services commensurate with what the passenger was willing to trade for the service. I.e. "I'll trade you one phone card in exchange for serving my wife and I a drink" or "I'll trade you one live chicken in exchange for serving my dinner on Tuesday" or "I'll trade you one refrigerator magnet from my home town, a baseball cap for my favorite team, and a souvenir key chain from our last vacation in exchange for cleaning my stateroom or the week." :D

Edited October 19, 2014 by fortinweb

[hamrag]

I think one of the difficulties some, certainly not all of us, Brits have is the fact that the cruise fare in the UK normally costs much more than the US equivalent.....so the pricing "culture" is different, in favour of US passengers. Because of that, some Brits feel it quite appropriate to adjust the tips in a downward direction, and do not buy into the "tipping culture" argument prominent on these threads.

 

As a couple who have cruised 30 times we fully understand and abide by the onboard "tipping" culture, but also understand why some Brits feel otherwise because of the adverse pricing factor described above!

 

Only when the pricing is the same for all Nationalities would I accept that the tipping practices should be identical for all. That is in the gift of the cruising companies, to ensure that pricing is broadly similar whether the cruise is booked in the US, the UK, Australia or wherever else in the world!

[Stede Bonnet]

At least three American travel agents have advised me that I should have auto-gratuities removed for one or more of my children when I get onboard. This is without any "prompting" on my part.

 

If that is the advice many first time cruisers are receiving then no wonder the topic keeps coming up.

 

I think the cruiselines just don't care whether the staff members get a per passenger payment or not because if they did options and ambiguities would have been cleared up long ago.

[SantaFeFan]

I think one of the difficulties some, certainly not all of us, Brits have is the fact that the cruise fare in the UK normally costs much more than the US equivalent.....so the pricing "culture" is different, in favour of US passengers. Because of that, some Brits feel it quite appropriate to adjust the tips in a downward direction, and do not buy into the "tipping culture" argument prominent on these threads.

 

As a couple who have cruised 30 times we fully understand and abide by the onboard "tipping" culture, but also understand why some Brits feel otherwise because of the adverse pricing factor described above!

 

Only when the pricing is the same for all Nationalities would I accept that the tipping practices should be identical for all. That is in the gift of the cruising companies, to ensure that pricing is broadly similar whether the cruise is booked in the US, the UK, Australia or wherever else in the world!

 

What an dysfunctional way of thinking as an excuse for stiffing the staff! Using that flawed and myopic logic, the next time I visit Scotland (been there six times so far), if I think the price for a meal in one of your restaurants is too high (which they are, by the way), I'll eat it anyway and walk out after paying only what I thought it was worth. :eek:

Edited October 19, 2014 by SantaFeFan

[Mr. Click]

Perhaps they, the cruise lines should just call it what it is.. a service charge. We have been on a lot of cruises now in the past 8-9 years and our the service has been outstanding 99% of the time. On the one occasion that we had really bad service in the MDR we mentioned something to the customer service rep who was helping us with a sea pass card that had gone bad and when we went to dinner that night, we had new waiters and the head waiter was waiting for us to make sure it was done right. These people work hard to make our vacation more enjoyable so why not thank them in the best way, with a bit of extra cash?

[hamrag]

What an dysfunctional way of thinking as an excuse for stiffing the staff! Using that flawed and myopic logic, the next time I visit Scotland (been there six time so far), if I think the price for a meal in one of your restaurants is too high (which they are, by the way), I'll eat it anyway and walk out after paying only what I thought it was worth. :eek:

 

OK, you are entitled to your opinion as I and others are. Just because you do not like, or wish to accept, such clear logic does not make it flawed or myopic. The analogy you then present bears no similarity to the point being made. Please read my post again, I do not advocate stiffing staff....my response was specifically to the "tipping culture" point made by earlier posters!!;)