Disapointted

[cruisin'girl]

As you know, we are moving so today I was going through a bin of papers...and came across the Daily Programs from a Noordam cruise in 2008. When one cruises every year on HAL, and the changes happen gradually, we forget the details of the early days.

 

I found the "Welcome Aboard" folders and the "Thanks for Sailing with us" folders (or whatever the disembarkation one was called), and a formal menu...back in the day they gave them out. WOW is all I can say. What a huge difference less than 10 years later. :(

 

Having said that, I also found the documents of the cost of the cruise...and the cost is petty much the same as it is today. So, I guess they have to cut somewhere.

Hate to ask but can you post the menu for 2008 Formal Night, please? If not the actual menu then just a quick list of the appetizers and entrees (without all the explanation of each dish).

[cruz chic]

I'm going to try to post the entrees from my 1989 cruise. Hope it will be readable

 

 

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[cruz chic]

More menus from 1989 (entrees)

 

 

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[cruz chic]

And again

 

 

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[qsuzi]

Cruz Chic. Amazing that you still have those menus. Hope things are better on your end.

[C 2 C]

I wanted to take this opportunity to extend thanks to weluvcrusin. As an experienced "cruiser," you have expressed your disappointment in Holland America Line. Your comments are useful for me as I plan future vacations and cruises.

 

I felt the same about the posts. The displeasure and dissatisfaction was obvious for someone who has had experience sailing on the line.

 

I drop by the HAL site occasionally to get a feel for today's HAL.

We're only 3* mariners (sailed on the same "original" Rotterdam in 89) but cruise frequently on Celebrity. HAL's itineraries attract me but the all too frequent posts of mechanical issues and dissatisfaction except for the diehard HAL supporters make me wary.

[cruz chic]

Cruz Chic. Amazing that you still have those menus. Hope things are better on your end.

 

I've been doing a lot of purging lately but something makes me hold onto them. Just looking at the everyday menus the food is so much better than formal nights.

 

Things are marginally better here but for sure the roads are going to get rough again. In addition, I'm wondering at this point if I'll work again. Things are very, very slow here.

[IRL_Joanie]

Here we go again. I know what cruz chic is saying and understand. If a formal night menu was posted on this thread I haven't seen it or how extensive it was' date=' but again it's all about expectations. After years of having the best menus and more expensive dishes on formal nights, just because the cruise line might want to cut back they certainly can expect negative customer feedback if expectations aren't met. Formal nights on HAL for years have meant lobster, King Crab, prime rib, a better steak than usual, jumbo shrimp. (And saying lobster used to be poor man's food is entirely beside the point. It certainly isn't now.) Any pasta dish on the formal menu should be truly special. Or.....better yet, if the menu is going downhill, just forget the whole formal thing.[/quote']

 

Hubby uploaded the last 2 Formal Night Menus from last week aboard Noordam, May 2105:

 

Formal Night 1 called "Gala"(Below the Lunch Menu) http://www.rogerjett-photography.com/here/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/AL-15-Menu-Day-01.pdf

 

Formal Night 2 called "Gala" (Below the Lunch Menu) http://www.rogerjett-photography.com/here/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/AL-15-Menu-Day-05.pdf

 

Joanie

[IRL_Joanie]

I know that many many Long Term HAL Cruisers have mentioned the quality going downhill and those of us who have not had the experience cannot see it. My question is this:

 

COULD the quality have gone down with the onset of Rudi Sodimin (Spelling) having been ensconced as the Head of Culinary? Seems to me that may be about the time the major changes started....

 

Just a question not an attack but...........

 

Joanie

[cbr663]

Yes, I have also had similar experiences on land in fine dining establishments. Surely though you are not comparing these establishments to the MDR on a HAL ship?

[cbr663]

What is so interesting on this thread is that more and more people are posting examples that support the OP's statement - HAL has gone downhill. Service has decreased and so has the food offerings.

 

Paying less and receiving less is no reward. Carnival Corp CEO Donald has already signaled that the cruise industry cannot continue to add capacity to increase revenue and must increase its prices. Those who condone paying less and receiving less may soon have trouble receiving less and paying more.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Truly' date=' there is a huge difference from the mid-2000s and earlier. Cutbacks in labor and food costs for starters have made a big difference.[/quote']

 

I agree, and on Princess and Celebrity also. Cruises we have booked in the past couple of years are similar or lower in cost than those we took 10-15 years ago, so something has to give. It seems that mainstream cruise lines are following the lead of the airlines, and putting price over quality to draw in the masses. Having these (IMO) oversized newbuilds to fill only exacerbates the situation :(.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SoCal Cruiser78

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Just a tidbit of trivia; the original Rotterdam, aka Rotterdam I, was delivered to HAL's forerunner on 07 September 1872...

 

I had to smile when I read your remarks. My mother once said that she sailed on the original Rotterdam. I replied that she looks great for 100+ years old :). Of course it was actually the Rotterdam V from 1959, but it was the first Rotterdam that she (and much of her generation that still cruise) remember.

Edited May 28, 2015 by SoCal Cruiser78

[sppunk]

What is so interesting on this thread is that more and more people are posting examples that support the OP's statement - HAL has gone downhill. Service has decreased and so has the food offerings.

 

Paying less and receiving less is no reward. Carnival Corp CEO Donald has already signaled that the cruise industry cannot continue to add capacity to increase revenue and must increase its prices. Those who condone paying less and receiving less may soon have trouble receiving less and paying more.

 

The flip side is this can be said, again, of every single line sailing today. The ones that didn't do this are no longer sailing. Hell, HAL and Cunard both had to be swallowed by Carnival in lieu of extremely likely going bankrupt. Without Carnival, there is no Queen Mary 2 and thus no capital for their other two new ships.

 

Let's think out loud of things that cost less today and offer less benefits. I'll start!

 

- Airlines

- Hotels

- Car rentals

- Grocery stores

- Gas stations

 

Has HAL quality diminished? Of course, most certainly. Is it an outlier within its class of cruiselines? No.

 

Note I am not belittling to the OP in any way, I believe his post. But the truth is if you aren't a fan of the new HAL, then you need to leave and go to a luxury line where you'll pay a ton more and get what HAL likely was back "in the good old days."

[1of4]

The flip side is this can be said, again, of every single line sailing today. The ones that didn't do this are no longer sailing. Hell, HAL and Cunard both had to be swallowed by Carnival in lieu of extremely likely going bankrupt. Without Carnival, there is no Queen Mary 2 and thus no capital for their other two new ships.

 

Let's think out loud of things that cost less today and offer less benefits. I'll start!

 

- Airlines

- Hotels

- Car rentals

- Grocery stores

- Gas stations

 

Has HAL quality diminished? Of course, most certainly. Is it an outlier within its class of cruiselines? No.

 

Note I am not belittling to the OP in any way, I believe his post. But the truth is if you aren't a fan of the new HAL, then you need to leave and go to a luxury line where you'll pay a ton more and get what HAL likely was back "in the good old days."

 

Exactly! Thanks for posting as this is what I was thinking but couldn't put it in words.

[Jade13]

I felt the same about the posts. The displeasure and dissatisfaction was obvious for someone who has had experience sailing on the line.

 

I drop by the HAL site occasionally to get a feel for today's HAL.

We're only 3* mariners (sailed on the same "original" Rotterdam in 89) but cruise frequently on Celebrity. HAL's itineraries attract me but the all too frequent posts of mechanical issues and dissatisfaction except for the diehard HAL supporters make me wary.

 

Hi Arno,

 

I met you briefly on the Silhouette transatlantic in 2012.

 

HAL's itineraries cannot be beat. I am probably the wrong one to ask right now because we just got off Maasdam that was in Code Red for a full 7 night cruise. But, interestingly we (my DH is a professional Chef) thought the food in the MDR was pretty good and service was very efficient.

 

We had poor service and thought the selections were poor in the lido cafe (compared to Celebrity), and my DH summed it up the best when he said the issue with the ship was that "It was boring". He mentioned the shows on Celebrity, music in the Atrium and theatrical event in atrium where they have a lot of participation on the Solstice class ships.

 

On Maasdam there was an area where the band set up but no music ever around the Lido pool either during lunch time or at sail away.

 

The ports and our cabin were fine.

 

Tell everyone how much time you have on Celebrity. I know you were the highest Captains Club member on that Silhouette cruise, and are a very experienced cruiser. I did not know that you had cruised on HAL in the past.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Jade13

[Randyk47]

The flip side is this can be said, again, of every single line sailing today. The ones that didn't do this are no longer sailing. Hell, HAL and Cunard both had to be swallowed by Carnival in lieu of extremely likely going bankrupt. Without Carnival, there is no Queen Mary 2 and thus no capital for their other two new ships.

 

Let's think out loud of things that cost less today and offer less benefits. I'll start!

 

- Airlines

- Hotels

- Car rentals

- Grocery stores

- Gas stations

 

Has HAL quality diminished? Of course, most certainly. Is it an outlier within its class of cruiselines? No.

 

Note I am not belittling to the OP in any way, I believe his post. But the truth is if you aren't a fan of the new HAL, then you need to leave and go to a luxury line where you'll pay a ton more and get what HAL likely was back "in the good old days."

 

I'm almost in 100% agreement. My one caveat would be that not all luxury line itineraries are "a ton more". Our experience has been that we've been able to match and in at least one case get virtually the same relative category cabin on a "luxury line" for less than a comparable HAL cruise. Now, in all fairness, price wise the luxury lines get hammered for the typical Caribbean and Alaskan cruises. They simply cannot compete against the larger lines for those itineraries. Where they can be much more competitive is for itineraries in more distant and slightly less saturated destinations like Europe or Asia. Sure, it takes careful research and planning, maybe catching a sale or special but it can be done. Oh....and you don't have to give up a Neptune Suite on HAL and take a low level no veranda cabin on a luxury line to make the math work....at least we haven't.

[iancal]

We still like cruising and it can be a very cost effective vacation.

 

But we under no illusion as to what has happened over the past few years with flat lined prices, excess capacity, and a limping world economy.

 

The product has changed. Not saying we reject the product but rather we now look at it from a different perspective.

 

We don't pretend that mass market cruises are something they are not or deliver something that they do not.

[1of4]

Cruz Chick....yum, yum yum! Thanks for posting those menus! Wow. I had no trouble picking out a number of things I wanted to eat instead of looking for something I can eat. Big distinction!

 

Randyk47 - thanks for your input. Time to put on my research hat and go looking.

[sppunk]

I'm almost in 100% agreement. My one caveat would be that not all luxury line itineraries are "a ton more". Our experience has been that we've been able to match and in at least one case get virtually the same relative category cabin on a "luxury line" for less than a comparable HAL cruise. Now, in all fairness, price wise the luxury lines get hammered for the typical Caribbean and Alaskan cruises. They simply cannot compete against the larger lines for those itineraries. Where they can be much more competitive is for itineraries in more distant and slightly less saturated destinations like Europe or Asia. Sure, it takes careful research and planning, maybe catching a sale or special but it can be done. Oh....and you don't have to give up a Neptune Suite on HAL and take a low level no veranda cabin on a luxury line to make the math work....at least we haven't.

 

From our research, you really need to start looking at 14+ day cruises for the prices to come in line with each other. Unfortunately due to work demands we can not take anymore than 13 days off at a time. :(

[Randyk47]

Randyk47 - thanks for your input. Time to put on my research hat and go looking.

 

Specific case in point was a 14-day Med cruise on a luxury line versus a 12-day Med cruise on the Prinsedam. Itineraries were almost port for port the same. Cabin category was Neptune Suite and close equivalent on Silversea. The Prinsendam was more. We took the chance.....really not much of a risk :).....and had a fantastic cruise. I'd rate that cruise, itineraries notwithstanding, right up there with our all-time favorite honeymoon cruise on the Ryndam and a 14-day cruise on the Volendam.

 

The "killer" for Europe and Asia cruises for us is the air fare. Can be a shock. We don't live close to a major International airport and have to fly to one just for domestic flights much less International so it makes it more difficult to get really low prices. Of course getting to even Fl Lauderdale is now two to three times what it was just a couple of years ago.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Randyk47

[zerbot]

Unless things change dramatically in the world economy, it's likely to get worse. Viking is looking shove 10 new ships into the already soft market. The number of people who can afford to cruise at the old level has dropped. Oligarchs don't buy cruises, they have their own yachts.

[Randyk47]

From our research, you really need to start looking at 14+ day cruises for the prices to come in line with each other. Unfortunately due to work demands we can not take anymore than 13 days off at a time. :(

 

I agree. I found the break point to be 12+ days but our analysis is basically in line. I can't say it hasn't been a challenge to schedule vacation time. Mine isn't so bad as I'm semi-retired and my consulting work is hit or miss. I'm pretty much on permanent vacation and just drop the company I typically work with a note saying I won't be available between certain dates. Luckily Mrs. K's boss has been very understanding as he knows we're going to say the Med so longer vacation time off is understood. Not easy sometimes and it causes us to plan months to a year plus ahead.

[cruz chic]

Cruz Chick....yum, yum yum! Thanks for posting those menus! Wow. I had no trouble picking out a number of things I wanted to eat instead of looking for something I can eat. Big distinction!

 

Randyk47 - thanks for your input. Time to put on my research hat and go looking.

 

I made a mistake on the year. It was actually 1999 not 1989. I agree, the food sounds good.

 

I don't have a huge problem with cuts to survive. What I do have a problem with is being gouged. Right now hal is charging $4000 for a two week cruise in the cheapest balcony single supp for this October. That price is ridiculous. If I was paying $2200 for that cruise i would be happy with super cheap food. Why not start at a more reasonable $3k. If they can't make money off that they should go out of business.

[sppunk]

I made a mistake on the year. It was actually 1999 not 1989. I agree, the food sounds good.

 

I don't have a huge problem with cuts to survive. What I do have a problem with is being gouged. Right now hal is charging $4000 for a two week cruise in the cheapest balcony single supp for this October. That price is ridiculous. If I was paying $2200 for that cruise i would be happy with super cheap food. Why not start at a more reasonable $3k. If they can't make money off that they should go out of business.

 

They charge what the market bears, and then drop prices if needed. If you aren't comfortable with it, don't pay and wait until a few weeks until sailing. If more agree with you prices will have dropped significantly. If not, HAL was correct and you save your money.

 

This is the same for airfare. We just came back from two weeks in London and flew business on points rather than money. A 7 hour flight isn't worth the $7,500 British Airways charged (to me) but clearly they can do charge that as the A380 was filled to the brim.