NCL - do not do business with this cruise line, they renege on agreements

[phoenix2mn]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Only legally valid up to a point in UK - there is a 'test of reasonableness' - a port change/time in port change would be seen as reasonable. This is a complete change of ship/itinerary/time - the whole cruise is being changed. That would never pass the reasonableness test - it is a fundamental change to the terms of the contract so would render the contract void. The injured party is therefore able to sue for damages to restore them to the position they were in before the contract existed.

Do I need to type this in upper case to get the point across to some posters?[/quote]

What's "reasonable" to you may be unreasonable to NCL. What's "reasonable" to NCL may be unreasonable to you. See the problem with undefined terminology and bad law? :D

[maywell]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Only legally valid up to a point in UK - there is a 'test of reasonableness' - a port change/time in port change would be seen as reasonable. This is a complete change of ship/itinerary/time - the whole cruise is being changed. That would never pass the reasonableness test - it is a fundamental change to the terms of the contract so would render the contract void. The injured party is therefore able to sue for damages to restore them to the position they were in before the contract existed.

Do I need to type this in upper case to get the point across to some posters?[/QUOTE]
What part of "When a customer cancels a booking on their own recognizance , NCL doesn't owe them anything regarding third-party bookings like airfare, car service, etc; that was not done through them" are you not understanding in either version of the contracts (US & EU/UK).

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[Shawnino]

[quote name='phoenix2mn']What's "reasonable" to you may be unreasonable to NCL. What's "reasonable" to NCL may be unreasonable to you. See the problem with undefined terminology and bad law? :D[/QUOTE]

1) No language can exist without undefined terms--terms where everyone is assumed to know what they mean. In mathematical set theory for instance, undefined terms include "set" and "is an element of".

2) In this specific case reasonableness would be tested not by OP nor by NCL, but by a court of law.

3) Depending on OP's booking time, I still see all the basic elements here for fraud. If NCL sold the cruise after NCL knew it would never sail, the burden for civil fraud has been met in many jurisdictions.

[SteveH2508]

[quote name='SeaShark']Even an armchair lawyer should know enough to a) check the contract first, and b) depose BOTH parties in the matter.

But that would upset the agenda.


All I see here is a poster who belives that they are 100% right and every single person at NCL is 100% wrong having a public tantrum.

All I see here is a poster who believes they are 100% right and everyone here is a "cheerleader" who is 100% wrong.

All I see here is the usual bashers who are more than willing to take anything derogatory as pure gospel in support of their continual trolling.


BOTTOM LINE: We won't do anything about it, we can't do anything about it, so why even bother to continue wasting your time on this topic? This is really a topic for ConsumerAffairs dot com.[/quote]

Seeing as OP is from UK and the contract is subject to UK law (most likely - if he booked through US site then all bets are off), ConsumerAffairs.com (a US site), is irrelevant.

I'm just trying, (and failing apparently:rolleyes:), to point out to the US cheerleaders, that NCL does business under several different legal systems and that they seem to treat these other systems with a degree of contempt. UK bookings are specifically covered by UK law.

[URL]http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/booking-conditions/#!/helpful-information/booking-conditions/booking-conditions-2015-16-17/[/URL]

[QUOTE][B]3. Your Contract[/B]

A binding contract between us comes into existence when we confirm your booking to you or your travel agent as set out in [URL="http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/booking-conditions/#1"]clause 1[/URL]. We both agree that English law (and no other) will apply to your contract and to any dispute, claim or other matter of any description which arises between us ('claim') except as set out below. We both also agree that any claim (and whether or not involving any personal injury) must be dealt with under the ABTA arbitration scheme (if the scheme is available for the claim in question and you wish to use it – see [URL="http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/booking-conditions/#11"]clause 11[/URL]) or by the Courts of England and Wales only unless, in the case of Court proceedings, you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland. In this case, proceedings must either be brought in the Courts of your home country or those of England and Wales. If proceedings are brought in Scotland or Northern Ireland, you may choose to have your contract and claim governed by the law of Scotland/Northern Ireland as applicable (but if you do not so choose, English law will apply). [/QUOTE]

OP - get onto the ABTA arbitration scheme.

[peteukmcr]

Before this thread is closed at my request. Here are the facts

1. NCL cancelled our cruise
2. NCL offered price protection on 4 unsuitable alternatives
3. NCL offered a complete and full refund if we cancelled (which is not the norm in the UK).
4. NCL promised to pay for flight changes if we still cruised with them
5. NCL promised to pay for flight cancellations if we did not cruise with NCL
6. NCL offered for us to transfer to another cruise without price protection

End of.

NCL have not honoured their agreement

I don't care what you say, other than I will thank the poster who advised the UK small claims court. No disrespect but those of you in the U.S. are not in the UK, have nit booked in the UK so are not experts on what happens here.

[peteukmcr]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Seeing as OP is from UK and the contract is subject to UK law (most likely - if he booked through US site then all bets are off), ConsumerAffairs.com (a US site), is irrelevant.

I'm just trying, (and failing apparently:rolleyes:), to point out to the US cheerleaders, that NCL does business under several different legal systems and that they seem to treat these other systems with a degree of contempt. UK bookings are specifically covered by UK law.

[URL]http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/booking-conditions/#!/helpful-information/booking-conditions/booking-conditions-2015-16-17/[/URL]



OP - get onto the ABTA arbitration scheme.[/QUOTE]many thanks I will

[rydan]

I would love to know what airline books out over a year in advance. I don't care where you live, the airline you fly on. All systems are tied in. Never ever seen that before. Please prove me to be incorrect.

My sister in law works for Sabre as a systems programer . I just sent her a text. Even she said NO WAY. No commercial airline books over 365 days out.

[SeaShark]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Seeing as OP is from UK and the contract is subject to UK law (most likely - if he booked through US site then all bets are off), ConsumerAffairs.com (a US site), is irrelevant.

I'm just trying, (and failing apparently:rolleyes:), to point out to the US cheerleaders, that NCL does business under several different legal systems and that they seem to treat these other systems with a degree of contempt. UK bookings are specifically covered by UK law.

[URL]http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/booking-conditions/#!/helpful-information/booking-conditions/booking-conditions-2015-16-17/[/URL]



OP - get onto the ABTA arbitration scheme.[/QUOTE]
If you're going with the whole "this is a UK thing so US sites are irrelevant" argument, let me remind you that THIS is CruiseCritic.com, not CruiseCritic.co.uk.

In any case,still not understanding why you care (even a little) if we believe this part of the story or not.

[triptolemus]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Irrelevant - NCL are legally liable for those fees due to their breach of contract.
[/quote]

NCL cancelled the cruise according to the contract terms. There is no breach.

[SteveH2508]

[quote name='peteukmcr']many thanks I will[/quote]

Hope you get a suitable result - nil illegitime carborundum;).

[abe3]

[quote name='rydan']Something very [emoji225][emoji226] going on here.
I'll grab my folding chair, open a beer and enjoy the show[emoji13][/QUOTE]


I agree with this. There is something missing concerning the OP comments. Not sure what it is but there is always another side of the story and we probably will not know NCL's side just the OP. Kind of odd he is the only one talking about this happening to him. Maybe more will come out but I doubt it. I think there is some type of miscommunication on the OP part in my opinion.

[Lancer1568]

[quote name='peteukmcr']Before this thread is closed at my request. Here are the facts

1. NCL cancelled our cruise
2. NCL offered price protection on 4 unsuitable alternatives
3. NCL offered a complete and full refund if we cancelled (which is not the norm in the UK).
4. NCL promised to pay for flight changes if we still cruised with them
5. NCL promised to pay for flight cancellations if we did not cruise with NCL
6. NCL offered for us to transfer to another cruise without price protection

End of.

NCL have not honoured their agreement

I don't care what you say, other than I will thank the poster who advised the UK small claims court. No disrespect but those of you in the U.S. are not in the UK, have nit booked in the UK so are not experts on what happens here.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for posting here. It is good for all of us to see how the various cruise companies can and do mistreat customers. I am not sure why some people feel like they have to question and doubt people who have a problem but that is how it goes on these boards.

[peteukmcr]

[quote name='rydan']I would love to know what airline books out over a year in advance. I don't care where you live, the airline you fly on. All systems are tied in. Never ever seen that before. Please prove me to be incorrect.

My sister in law works for Sabre as a systems programer . I just sent her a text. Even she said NO WAY. No commercial airline books over 365 days out.[/QUOTE]

[url]Www.jet2.com[/url] check it out! Do you want my booking reference. I am NOT a liar which you are insinuating I am.

I work in travel and I can assure you, it is possible so YES and your sister is wrong and I work in Amadeus and Galileo for your info.

[peteukmcr]

[quote name='SeaShark']If you're going with the whole "this is a UK thing so US sites are irrelevant" argument, let me remind you that THIS is CruiseCritic.com, not CruiseCritic.co.uk.

In any case,still not understanding why you care (even a little) if we believe this part of the story or not.[/QUOTE]
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG I'm logged in via CruiseCritic.co.uk!

[JohnIreland]

[quote name='peteukmcr']Before this thread is closed at my request. Here are the facts

1. NCL cancelled our cruise
2. NCL offered price protection on 4 unsuitable alternatives
3. NCL offered a complete and full refund if we cancelled (which is not the norm in the UK).
4. NCL promised to pay for flight changes if we still cruised with them
5. NCL promised to pay for flight cancellations if we did not cruise with NCL
6. NCL offered for us to transfer to another cruise without price protection

End of.

NCL have not honoured their agreement

I don't care what you say, other than I will thank the poster who advised the UK small claims court. No disrespect but those of you in the U.S. are not in the UK, have nit booked in the UK so are not experts on what happens here.[/quote]

File a small claims case. They won't even bother defending.

[triptolemus]

[quote name='SeaShark']If you're going with the whole "this is a UK thing so US sites are irrelevant" argument, let me remind you that THIS is CruiseCritic.com, not CruiseCritic.co.uk.
[/quote]

Both of which route to the same sever at 50.57.11.191 and serve the exact same Forums content.

[Jane Don]

So frequently Americans can see only in American terms. There is a whole other world out there and they have laws that differ. (Yes, everybody but you has already been to Cuba!)

UK travel laws are so stringent that if you bought sunscreen and clothes for a vacation that is cancelled they are required to reimburse you for these things.

The OP should contact the governing body in the UK and ask advice. NCL will eventually make him whole with the mere threat of further action. Keep fighting, don't listen to the invest...er...I mean cheerleaders. They are protecting their own self interests.

[Jane Don]

[url]http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/package-travel-regulations[/url]

[littlelulu01]

Geez Pete. I'm so sorry things are not working out for you. I know how much you were hoping it would. I wish you luck resolving this situation. If it's any hope, NCL seems to really stepping up as the week progresses so you may still have hope. People, including myself, who were so frustrated and about I give up have all of a sudden had NCL offer them wonderful deals. Here's hoping yours works out for the best too.

[Shawnino]

[quote name='littlelulu01']Geez Pete. I'm so sorry things are not working out for you. I know how much you were hoping it would. I wish you luck resolving this situation. If it's any hope, NCL seems to really stepping up as the week progresses so you may still have hope. People, including myself, who were so frustrated and about I give up have all of a sudden had NCL offer them wonderful deals. Here's hoping yours works out for the best too.[/QUOTE]

+1
It's extremely anecdotal, to be sure, but the offers do seem to be improving as the week progresses.

[CruisinHarvey]

[quote name='zqvol']I'm still waiting for the e-mails from before this exchange that explained the original offer concerning refunding airfare.


We are only getting the story that the OP wants to publish.[/QUOTE]

The way NCL is addressing your problem is terrible. If I got treated that way, I'd be gone, gone, gone from further cruises with them. The only way you can get your flight money back is if you purchased your flight through them( them making more money) or if you purchased insurance( them making more money) for a cruise THEY cancelled. Amazing!!!

I'm assuming it was getting close to 5 o'clcock and the NCL folks were getting off for the day. I haven't seen a zqvol post since then.

[SteveH2508]

[quote name='littlelulu01']Geez Pete. I'm so sorry things are not working out for you. I know how much you were hoping it would. I wish you luck resolving this situation. If it's any hope, NCL seems to really stepping up as the week progresses so you may still have hope. People, including myself, who were so frustrated and about I give up have all of a sudden had NCL offer them wonderful deals. Here's hoping yours works out for the best too.[/quote]

Nice to hear - maybe they have started to re-learn the power of social media?

[Arzeena]

Sir, very sorry for this happened.

Doesn't it look like your PCC/Agent is the one who gave you false information on the flight refunds?

[Arzeena]

[quote name='mjkacmom']What I get from these emails is that NCL will pay for the cost to cancel the flights if you choose to book a replacement cruise with them. However, since you cancelled and didn't rebook, they aren't paying the fees.[/quote]

That's kind of what I was thinking too. But in either case it's a bummer to be stuck with non cancellable flights and/or cancellation fees.

[Arzeena]

[quote name='SteveH2508']Small Claims Court - a binding contract was in place between yourself and NCL (offer, acceptance, consideration, intention to create legal relations were all present therefore a binding contract).

They have breached the contract - they should be liable for any reasonably foreseeable losses that you incur (which would certainly include air cancellation fees IMHO).

Basically, their fundamental breach of the contract renders them liable to restore you to the position you would have been in had the contract never been entered into by way of damages (AKA money).

Get on to Citizens Advice Bureau or Trading Standards.

There may well be some EU law on your side as well (unless you booked through US).

To all the other (US) posters -this is subject to UK/EU law not US law - it is VERY different. If booked through NCL(UK) it is specifically subject to UK law in the T&Cs.[/quote]

And they blame us Americans to be a litiguous society! Gee Golly Whiz!:)