"Sip and Sail" discrimination

[Hlitner]

We think its the Vegemite that does it! Nobody wants to offer a good deal to anyone that eats that stuff :).

 

Hank

Edited November 26, 2015 by Hlitner

[suspend6]

An interesting and informative set of responses. Thanks to all who have responded.

 

I guess "discrimination" is a little harsh, but I still think that at face value it could be construed that one set of people are given a deal or an offer, and others not. Does not seem fair and equitable to all parties, given that at the end of the day, we are all paying our money and sailing on the same ship.

 

Oh, and the Vegemite - you don't know what you are missing :-)

Edited November 26, 2015 by suspend6

[Pam in CA]

The "Sip & Sail" promotions are not available to all, no matter where you live. They are capacity controlled which means that only "X" number of bookings are eligible.

 

Lots of things in life are unfair but all you have to do is read any sale ad for any product and look for the phrase, "while supplies last." The bottom line is to book as early or fast as you can.

[Pushka]

I understand capacity control. And this thread is about promotions not being available to all. The promotions are just never available to people in Australia. They don't have to limit capacity control by georestriction - just simple time limits. It makes no difference as to how early we book - the offers are never included.

 

Celebrity offers the promotions to Aussies and I was sorely tempted to use them for the upcoming Alaska cruise but Glacier Bay won out. But because Celebrity does have these offers I always check their itinerary first. And other than Alaska I will always book with them. I wonder if Princess reviewed their promos they would pick up a greater share of the market.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Pushka

[john watson]

I think it's all about perception; if you told an Australian he was getting a free "Sip n Sail" drinks package deal he would likely say "Why am I being resricted to sipping?" Similarly if an Autralian saw a "Drink Canada Dry" advertisement he might think; "I could have a go."

 

Regards John

[suspend6]

The "Sip & Sail" promotions are not available to all, no matter where you live. They are capacity controlled which means that only "X" number of bookings are eligible.

 

Lots of things in life are unfair but all you have to do is read any sale ad for any product and look for the phrase, "while supplies last." The bottom line is to book as early or fast as you can.

 

Thanks Pam,

You are correct, but we in Oz did not even get a "supply" :(

[suspend6]

I think it's all about perception; if you told an Australian he was getting a free "Sip n Sail" drinks package deal he would likely say "Why am I being resricted to sipping?" Similarly if an Autralian saw a "Drink Canada Dry" advertisement he might think; "I could have a go."

Regards John

 

John,

You need to brush up on your Australian Culture big time. :)

[suspend6]

I understand capacity control. And this thread is about promotions not being available to all. The promotions are just never available to people in Australia. They don't have to limit capacity control by georestriction - just simple time limits. It makes no difference as to how early we book - the offers are never included.

 

Pushka, you have hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly my point. And if other cruise lines can do it, why can't Princess? As suggested, their marketing model may well suggest it is not necessary or viable, but equality and consistency stands for something, surely?

[suspend6]

To add further fuel to the fire, I received an email offer from P&O yesterday,

And I quote......

 

"In keeping with P&O Cruises 5 ship spectacular celebrations, Clean Cruising are excited to announce we're combining our own "7 day sale week" with P&O Cruises "It's Our Shout Sale". PLUS pre-register today on four selected cruises below to receive a FREE premium beverage package valued at $79/day"

 

P&O are very closely aligned with Princess, to the extent that cruise credits earned with either line contribute to one's Captains Circle status.

[Pam in CA]

Thanks Pam,

You are correct, but we in Oz did not even get a "supply" :(

True. However, keep in mind that there are legal reasons why marketing promotions are not the same when offered to US vs. other countries. I don't know the contractual agreements but I know that marketing and promotions are mutually exclusive between the US and Australia and the UK when it comes to ships sailing for Princess and booked out of Santa Clarita, CA. It's not so much discrimination as the way the corporations are set up and marketing territories laid out.

[pablo222]

To add further fuel to the fire, I received an email offer from P&O yesterday,

And I quote......

 

"In keeping with P&O Cruises 5 ship spectacular celebrations, Clean Cruising are excited to announce we're combining our own "7 day sale week" with P&O Cruises "It's Our Shout Sale". PLUS pre-register today on four selected cruises below to receive a FREE premium beverage package valued at $79/day"

 

P&O are very closely aligned with Princess, to the extent that cruise credits earned with either line contribute to one's Captains Circle status.

 

So, did you book on P&O?

[Womble99]

To add further fuel to the fire, I received an email offer from P&O yesterday,

And I quote......

 

"In keeping with P&O Cruises 5 ship spectacular celebrations, Clean Cruising are excited to announce we're combining our own "7 day sale week" with P&O Cruises "It's Our Shout Sale". PLUS pre-register today on four selected cruises below to receive a FREE premium beverage package valued at $79/day"

 

P&O are very closely aligned with Princess, to the extent that cruise credits earned with either line contribute to one's Captains Circle status.

 

Could also be a one off as they brought all 5 ships in to the one location at the one time and seem to be having trouble filling the out going legs? There are some serious flash sales going on for those cruises lately.

[RDC1]

One of the reasons for restricting alcohol packages on Australian cruises may have something to do with the Australian government.

 

A government study INQUIRY INTO THE ARRANGEMENTS SURROUNDING CRIMES COMMITTED AT SEA, discussed the potential impacts of alcohol consumption and crime committed on cruise ships.

 

It would appear that several cruise line CEO's are quoted in that and other government studies dealing with cruise line safety. Alcohol drink packages have come up as an issue resulting in excessive alcohol consumption and the cruise lines discussed voluntarily limiting their availability to prevent the need for additional laws being passed by the Australian government. It seems to largely be tied to a death on P&O in 2002 being the triggering event.

 

Now some lines may have started relaxing the restriction and started selling them on Australian cruises now that time has passed, but some of the limits in availability seem to have been a result of the Australian government looking into cruise line safety.

[Pushka]

Um. Just no.

[RDC1]

To give you an idea of the interest of the Australian Government in this topic the following extractions from Inquiry into the Arrangements Surrounding Crimes Committed at Sea. Especially note testimony from CEO Carnival Australia. Now this was a few years back so the cruiselines may now be feeling less pressure to restrict such packages

 

The Committee received terms of reference for an inquiry into the Arrangements Surrounding Crimes Committed at Sea from the Attorney General, The Hon Nicola Roxon MP, on 11 September 2012. The Committee agreed to adopt the terms of reference for the inquiry, as referred by the Attorney General, on Thursday 13 September 2012.

 

The inquiry was referred as part of the government response to the recommendations of the New South Wales Coronial inquest into the tragic death of Ms Dianne Brimble. The focus of the inquiry is on the jurisdiction and investigation of crimes against the person, which includes fatal, non-fatal and sexual offences committed on cruise and merchant ships.

 

In Chapter 4 of that document you have:

 

4.2 This Chapter will consider two main categories of measures to improve

safety and crime prevention:

 On-board crime prevention and safety measures:

⇒ The Milledge Recommendations;

⇒ Alcohol service;

⇒ On-board security;

⇒ Video monitoring; and

⇒ Operators’ liability for negligence.

 

Alcohol service

4.7 The recreational nature of cruise ships means that passengers are more

likely to consume alcohol, and probably more than they would on land.

Providing evidence about the consumption of both alcohol and drugs, the

Australian National Council on Drugs said that:

There is a limited research available on the higher levels of drug or

alcohol use (and other 'risk-taking' activities) among people who

are travelling or on holiday, without being specific to cruise ships.

Higher consumption of alcohol or drugs among this group may

relate to these activities being associated with pleasurable

experiences or leisure time, to the use of alcohol or other drugs as

social lubricants, to their role for some in celebrations, or to other

factors. Some of the research has noted that drug use while away

from home is regarded by some as being less risky than drug use

at home. It could be inferred that higher levels of use on cruise

ships (compared to use in the general population) would not be

unexpected given this research. However, there needs to be

caution using this information given the clear differences that exist

for cruise ship passengers compared to land based travellers.3

 

4.8 General evidence to the inquiry suggested that high consumption of

alcohol is a feature of cruise ships. According to the International Cruise

Victims Association, excessive alcohol consumption leads to numerous

risks:

The over-indulgence of alcoholic beverages by cruise ship

passengers on a carefree holiday has led on more than one

occasion to safety related accidents onboard ship, physical and

sexual assaults, and even the unfortunate death of passengers who

have fallen over the ship’s railing while becoming sick after

consuming too much alcohol. While most adult passengers are

responsible enough to control their drinking activities as they

would in any other social setting, many other passengers,

including juvenile underage drinkers are the most vulnerable to

the party-like environment of a cruise ship where alcohol is

virtually available, 24 hours a day.4

4.9 The consumption of alcohol can have a direct impact on the level of crime.

As stated in an academic paper by Ross Klein and Jill Poulston:

Around half of all sexual assaults are associated with alcohol

consumption…of either the perpetrator or victim.

[…]

Although most cruise ships prohibit the consumption of alcohol

purchased elsewhere…alcohol is also a major factor in sexual

crimes committed on cruise ships. 5

4.10 Numerous examples of current or past cruising policies demonstrate how

retail and bar policies can encourage of excessive alcohol consumption.

Examples include:

 Promotional events, such as ‘happy hours’ or ‘two-for-one specials’;

 Purchase of bulk drinks packages;6

 Alcohol sales-commissions for staff; and

 The consumption of duty-free alcohol purchased in ports.7

4.11 However, the cruise industry claims that it has made some efforts in

recent years to prevent alcohol from driving dangerous or criminal

behaviour on board ships.

 

Now here is the key quotation in which the CEO of Carnival Australia testifies "nor do any of our ships have unlimited drink packages"

 

Ann Sherry, CEO of Carnival Australia,

considers that the cruising industry has undergone a ‘transformation’,

including in relation to alcohol service:

The transformation has involved a significant number of changes,

so there is now zero tolerance of excessive behaviour on board any

Carnival Australia cruise ships. This policy has seen the

introduction of a series of significant changes. We have now strict

policies and procedures to ensure responsible service and

consumption of alcohol and no bar staff are on incentives to sell

alcohol, nor do any of our ships in this region have unlimited

drinking packages

[RDC1]

The Australian Government at the time was considering a number of actions, including the potential of putting police officers on cruise ships cruising out of Australia.

 

Anyone interested in reading the inquiry can find it at

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees?url=spla/crimes%20at%20sea/index.htm

[Colo Cruiser]

 

It would appear that several cruise line CEO's are quoted in that and other government studies dealing with cruise line safety. Alcohol drink packages have come up as an issue resulting in excessive alcohol consumption and the cruise lines discussed voluntarily limiting their availability to prevent the need for additional laws being passed by the Australian government. It seems to largely be tied to a death on P&O in 2002 being the triggering event.

 

 

I agree......

 

 

Whether its related to the Gov't or not this is probably one of the biggest reasons its not offered.

[shredie]

So should I be scared of my upcoming Oz cruise? Will it be Carnival weekend to Ensenada? :eek: (I don't really pay much attention to stereotypes, but this thread suggests something.)

[GUT2407]

So should I be scared of my upcoming Oz cruise? Will it be Carnival weekend to Ensenada? :eek: (I don't really pay much attention to stereotypes, but this thread suggests something.)

 

May depend who you're sailing with, we just had 30+ days around Aus, mainly Aussies in board don't think I saw a drunk anywhere.

[suspend6]

So, did you book on P&O?

 

Nope, itineraries did not impress.

[Pushka]

Just wondering why the Australian Government has an interest in my Princess cruise to Alaska but not my last Med Cruise on Celebrity.....

[ShipsAhoy425]

It's really no different than some lines offering state discounts.. for residents of FL, TX, CA, etc., if you don't live there, you don't "qualify" or get these offers. I never thought of it as discrimination though.

[icat2000]

The Australian Government at the time was considering a number of actions, including the potential of putting police officers on cruise ships cruising out of Australia.

 

Anyone interested in reading the inquiry can find it at

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees?url=spla/crimes%20at%20sea/index.htm

 

That relates to an incident that occurred on a cruise ship over 10 years ago.

[Colo Cruiser]

That relates to an incident that occurred on a cruise ship over 10 years ago.

 

 

That could also happen now. Or a lot worse.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[suspend6]

"Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing is perceived to belong to rather than on individual merit."

 

Having said earlier in this thread that discrimination might be a little harsh a term, the above definition does fit.

Edited November 30, 2015 by suspend6