Grump grump grump

[RDC1]

Cruise lines make money off of onboard spending far more than cruise fares. To their view, only one person in a stateroom takes away that chance for revenue.

 

Yes, exactly right. I recall looking at a recent financial filing a cruise lines gets around 40% of cruise revenue from on board spend. Normal cruise line occupancy numbers in the 105% range based on a 2 per cabin calculation.

 

Bottom line is cruiselines consider a solo passenger in a cabin to be a negative. Even if they reach normal spending per passenger on board and pay the full cabin fee, the cruise line is still out the 40% of cruise fare that the second passenger would have spent.

 

Basically if cruise fare is Y, the normal cabin revenue with 2 people is 2 x 1.4Y = 2.8Y. With a single cabin with they passenger paying both cruise fares and normal on board spend you get 2 x 1Y + .4 = 2.4Y

 

So if you have a cruise fare of 1500 per person the revenue for the normal double would be $4200, the single cabin is $3600 an opportunity loss of 14.3% a huge number.

 

Bottom line is the cruise line cannot afford very many singles per cruise.

[Maddle]

We singles were not entitled to the 500 dollar discount

 

The price reflects the $500 discount when they run a "sale."

 

If you book for two people, you get the price times two, plus taxes times two.

 

If you book for one person, you get the price times two, plus taxes for one.

 

I have never seen the pricing as "price minus $500" when a quote is worked up. It's just the price. Last week it was $2000 per person, this week it is $1500 per person. So, during the sale, Mr & Mrs Couple will pay $3000 plus taxes for two. Miss Single will pay $3000 plus taxes for one; NOT $3500 and taxes for one.

 

If it is a generous promotion with on board credit, Mr & Mrs Couple will SHARE the credit, (half on each account) and Miss Single gets it all to herself.

 

Here's the one time she missed out - I do think the Sip & Sail promo only gave a single beverage package to Miss Single. Too bad because she could have given the other one away to another person. Same thing when they have prepaid gratuities - just for Miss Single alone. But it will be awhile before we see that again - they are getting more generous with on board credit instead.

 

Has someone seen something different?

[Maddle]

Here's something else to think about...leave aside on board revenue for the time being (although that is a very important profit center.)

 

When the cruise line sells one bed, the other bed is no long available to sell. Even if everything else on the ship is free and not a profit center, that second bed is out of the inventory. They can't sell it to anyone. It's gone.

 

Once you get on the ship, the cruise line does not force you to spend money, except for your gratuities (and even that is "voluntary," but let's not quibble.) They don't say, "hey, that Mary and Tom are cheapskates - let's not ever sell them another cabin." BUT - when they do sell Mary and Tom the two beds, they get money for two beds. If Mary decides she's going on her own to drink the free iced tea - they can't sell Tom's bed to anyone else.

 

The best part about solo cruising is - those two beds are mine, and the bathroom is mine, and the closet is mine, and the desk is mine and the television is mine. That is so wonderful, I paid for FOUR people - me in one room, and my son in the other room, and two empty beds. It was money well spent and we were both happy. We started out sharing a room, and the price got cheaper, so we switched to two solo rooms. I hope I get to do it again!

[kruisey]

Here's something else to think about...leave aside on board revenue for the time being (although that is a very important profit center.)

 

When the cruise line sells one bed, the other bed is no long available to sell. Even if everything else on the ship is free and not a profit center, that second bed is out of the inventory. They can't sell it to anyone. It's gone.

 

Once you get on the ship, the cruise line does not force you to spend money, except for your gratuities (and even that is "voluntary," but let's not quibble.) They don't say, "hey, that Mary and Tom are cheapskates - let's not ever sell them another cabin." BUT - when they do sell Mary and Tom the two beds, they get money for two beds. If Mary decides she's going on her own to drink the free iced tea - they can't sell Tom's bed to anyone else.

 

The best part about solo cruising is - those two beds are mine, and the bathroom is mine, and the closet is mine, and the desk is mine and the television is mine. That is so wonderful, I paid for FOUR people - me in one room, and my son in the other room, and two empty beds. It was money well spent and we were both happy. We started out sharing a room, and the price got cheaper, so we switched to two solo rooms. I hope I get to do it again!

 

On my cruise a couple or single pay same price say $10,000.Then a special opens up $500 per person=$1000 not applicable to single occupancy Therefore the couple get $500 each from price of cabin.This ends up with the couple paying $9,000 for their cabin but the solo pays $10,000 for the same category cabin

Edited January 23, 2016 by kruisey
correction

[RDC1]

That is correct.Princess will be pleased if all solo travelers took there cruise plans to other lines then they will have gotten just what they want couples only without getting into a discrimination hassle.

 

Actually there is not a legal category for travelers solo to a room. So Princess could very easily say that they would not sell solo rooms and it would not be discrimination.

[crochetcruise]

Try needing a HA cabin-conscious choice made to upgrade to a Window Suite for a belated Special Birthday-and travelling solo. I really only have the Golden and Emerald Princesses to choose from if I want to occupy a Suite for a Milestone birthday.

 

I do wish Princess would consider refitting a Suite with Handicapped facilities when a ship is in Dry Dock. Even the lowest category of Vista Suite-or Window Suite for the Golden, Caribbean and Grand Princesses, is better than nothing.

 

The population is aging, so the potential for cruisers who NEED the grab rails in the shower and beside the toilet, as I do on advice from an Occupational Therapist for safety reasons, is growing.

 

Yes, most ships have a HA Penthouse Suite, but that is VERY expensive when your primary income is a Government benefit-cruising requires much careful planning and budgeting to achieve.

[joanne2]

What would be a 'fair' price for a single? Should that be the per person price quoted based upon double occupancy? Should a solo get the same cabin for half the price of a couple booking the same room? Would it be fairer if the cruise lines didn't publish per person prices but only quoted a price for a cabin, ie, twice the current published per person rate?

 

Isn't that what hotels do? It's a rate for a room, not a person.

[Cruise Junky]

Heather, I think HAL's new ship has single cabins. You might want go check her out.

[RDC1]

Isn't that what hotels do? It's a rate for a room, not a person.

 

While hotels are fairly close as far as business models go. There is a substantial difference in the percentage of revenue that comes from items other than the rack rate itself.

 

A large casino hotel might fit better, but even there you have a major difference in that there is no walk in customers for on board charges on a cruise ship.

 

The Hotel model is maximize revenue per room, the cruise ship model is maximize the number of passengers and revenue per passenger.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Actually, it's not the whole truth.

 

Singles do not always pay 200%.

 

From time-to-time, prices may be as low as 160% on Princess...

 

I had that experience when I sailed solo on Princess last year. I kept an eye on fares, and the cruise I wanted started at 200% as a solo, then dropped to 160% for a time, then back up to 200%. My guess is when they have too many that are booked 3 or 4 per cabin, they drop the solo % for a time to book enough solos to even out the pax total for the ship.

 

As I have said before, the total fare is more important when booking solo than the supplement %. I would rather pay 200% of a $1000 fare than 160% of a $2000 fare. So keep checking the total $ for cruises you are considering. Hope this helps!

[kruisey]

I had that experience when I sailed solo on Princess last year. I kept an eye on fares, and the cruise I wanted started at 200% as a solo, then dropped to 160% for a time, then back up to 200%. My guess is when they have too many that are booked 3 or 4 per cabin, they drop the solo % for a time to book enough solos to even out the pax total for the ship.

 

As I have said before, the total fare is more important when booking solo than the supplement %. I would rather pay 200% of a $1000 fare than 160% of a $2000 fare. So keep checking the total $ for cruises you are considering. Hope this helps!

Although at this moment I feel like canceling

[iceleven]

Although at this moment I feel like canceling

 

I did try to follow this thread but it's possible I missed a few comments. The first thing I thought, as I returned to this thread just now was, that to make matters worse for any single cruiser right now would be if they were also Canadian. I'm aware of the exchange rate making the U.S. dollar so much stronger. Lo and behold, I then looked at your name and location and I see that you are in B.C. I completely understand your disappointment and I wish all cruise lines could make it easier for everyone. I'd definitely begin looking into other cruise lines that have already made these efforts. You have my sincerely sympathy.

[kruisey]

I did try to follow this thread but it's possible I missed a few comments. The first thing I thought, as I returned to this thread just now was, that to make matters worse for any single cruiser right now would be if they were also Canadian. I'm aware of the exchange rate making the U.S. dollar so much stronger. Lo and behold, I then looked at your name and location and I see that you are in B.C. I completely understand your disappointment and I wish all cruise lines could make it easier for everyone. I'd definitely begin looking into other cruise lines that have already made these efforts. You have my sincerely sympathy.

For those kind words.:)

I did not bring up the exchange rate between the currencies because I did not feel it relevant to the topic.

Yes it is very rough going at this moment in time.Especially as I have to wing in over to the UK again to look after my sick sisters affairs that exchange rate is...:eek:

[rdcruisin]

I had that experience when I sailed solo on Princess last year. I kept an eye on fares, and the cruise I wanted started at 200% as a solo, then dropped to 160% for a time, then back up to 200%. My guess is when they have too many that are booked 3 or 4 per cabin, they drop the solo % for a time to book enough solos to even out the pax total for the ship.

 

As I have said before, the total fare is more important when booking solo than the supplement %. I would rather pay 200% of a $1000 fare than 160% of a $2000 fare. So keep checking the total $ for cruises you are considering. Hope this helps!

 

How do you find out when the solo fare goes down on a booked cruise? Do you just have to keep going in and do a mock booking day after day or is there an easier way to find out?

[cr8tiv1]

Disclaimer: My comments are to support the solo traveler.

 

I have discovered that, in general, Life Isn't Fair. Someone will always come out on the losing end.

 

I am fortunate enough to have found a cruising buddy that allows us to cruise "as a couple" although we are far from that. We get along really well. On board, there are still many "couple" issues we have had to "fix". We have to request two elite amenity bags, two patters, two pens, etc. We only get one mini-bar. We have to request two corsages (not a boutonnière and a corsage). I am not complaining. As long as I get to cruise, I will deal with these annoyances.

 

But getting back to fairness. Why don't they charge 3rd and 4th passengers 100%? If there are 3rd and 4th passengers, wouldn't that make up for the single in a cabin? Logic. If 3rd and 4th passengers are paying 50%, together they make up 100%. Couldn't that be factored in to the single cabin with only one person? Ships are passenger capacity controlled. They only can hold so many bodies and, therefore, some cabins would have to go empty.

 

I've been to solo activities on Princess. Not really a ship sponsored event. A cruise director staff is there to meet everyone, then leaves...or they provide a room for the meeting without any host. Princess is not very solo traveler friendly.

 

But, again, they are trying to maximize their dollar in which someone will always be unhappy.

[kruisey]

Disclaimer: My comments are to support the solo traveler.

 

I have discovered that, in general, Life Isn't Fair. Someone will always come out on the losing end.

 

I am fortunate enough to have found a cruising buddy that allows us to cruise "as a couple" although we are far from that. We get along really well. On board, there are still many "couple" issues we have had to "fix". We have to request two elite amenity bags, two patters, two pens, etc. We only get one mini-bar. We have to request two corsages (not a boutonnière and a corsage). I am not complaining. As long as I get to cruise, I will deal with these annoyances.

 

But getting back to fairness. Why don't they charge 3rd and 4th passengers 100%? If there are 3rd and 4th passengers, wouldn't that make up for the single in a cabin? Logic. If 3rd and 4th passengers are paying 50%, together they make up 100%. Couldn't that be factored in to the single cabin with only one person? Ships are passenger capacity controlled. They only can hold so many bodies and, therefore, some cabins would have to go empty.

 

I've been to solo activities on Princess. Not really a ship sponsored event. A cruise director staff is there to meet everyone, then leaves...or they provide a room for the meeting without any host. Princess is not very solo traveler friendly.

 

But, again, they are trying to maximize their dollar in which someone will always be unhappy.

 

Thank you for your informative input:)

[Maddle]

Mine is a much longer cruise and it would have helped to gotten the $500 each person got if sharing.I would not expect the $1000 for two.

You will enjoy Princess the employees are always so welcoming and friendly they make one feel at home.I always have traditional dining on a large table were I meet with the same group each night for dinner.'Enjoy':)

 

OP - Which cruise are you considering? Are you already booked? Which promotion is the sale - "Twice as Nice" or something else? Perhaps your original booking was already $500 less than the Launch price? Is the problem that the rules may be different in Canada (which I gather you are from - or did I misread?)

 

Maddle

[kruisey]

OP - Which cruise are you considering? Are you already booked? Which promotion is the sale - "Twice as Nice" or something else? Perhaps your original booking was already $500 less than the Launch price? Is the problem that the rules may be different in Canada (which I gather you are from - or did I misread?)

 

Maddle

 

The OBC is credited but the $500 per person off cabin does not apply to singles

[RDC1]

Disclaimer: My comments are to support the solo traveler.

 

I have discovered that, in general, Life Isn't Fair. Someone will always come out on the losing end.

 

I am fortunate enough to have found a cruising buddy that allows us to cruise "as a couple" although we are far from that. We get along really well. On board, there are still many "couple" issues we have had to "fix". We have to request two elite amenity bags, two patters, two pens, etc. We only get one mini-bar. We have to request two corsages (not a boutonnière and a corsage). I am not complaining. As long as I get to cruise, I will deal with these annoyances.

 

But getting back to fairness. Why don't they charge 3rd and 4th passengers 100%? If there are 3rd and 4th passengers, wouldn't that make up for the single in a cabin? Logic. If 3rd and 4th passengers are paying 50%, together they make up 100%. Couldn't that be factored in to the single cabin with only one person? Ships are passenger capacity controlled. They only can hold so many bodies and, therefore, some cabins would have to go empty.

 

I've been to solo activities on Princess. Not really a ship sponsored event. A cruise director staff is there to meet everyone, then leaves...or they provide a room for the meeting without any host. Princess is not very solo traveler friendly.

 

But, again, they are trying to maximize their dollar in which someone will always be unhappy.

 

 

Ships usually run out of cabins, before hitting the passenger limit. Keep in mind that according to their financial filings cruise lines average about 105% of lower berth occupancy occupancy (a little more then 2 per cabin on most ships). Max passenger capacity tends to run at least 120% of lower berth occupancy. So they seldom max out passenger capacity.

 

That is why your comment about 3rd 4th passenger doesn't really pan out for them financially.

 

The reason why they charge less for the 3rd and 4th passenger is because in most cases they are families. And because they have such a margin between lower berth occupancy and total passenger limit that it additional revenue that goes directly to the bottom line. They often take the same excursions and I would expect (though I don't have access to their data) that they have very good on board spend numbers for cabins with 3 and 4 occupancy.

Edited January 24, 2016 by RDC1

[Colo Cruiser]

Ships usually run out of cabins, before hitting the passenger limit. Keep in mind that according to their financial filings cruise lines average about 105% of lower berth occupancy occupancy (a little more then 2 per cabin on most ships). Max passenger capacity tends to run at least 120% of lower berth occupancy. So they seldom max out passenger capacity.

 

 

Its the other way around, because of 3rd and 4th they hit the passenger limit and still have cabins that they cannot fill and sometimes sail empty.

[cactusrose]

Latest Grump from me to you regarding we persons that dare to venture on a Princess Ship as SOLO,SINGLE, or whatever.

The latest special from Princess $1000 or $500 each for two sharing a cabin off the cabin price.

Punishment for those daring to request solo status,which cannot be refused due to action in high court for discrimination but this solo business is to be discouraged by allowing the couple to have $1000 or $500 each which also = $1000 off price of their cabin.

Solos,Singles still pay the full double price with no discount of $500 means they pay not only the original double price but an additional $1000 above that.

In other words get a friend or hitch up to some if you want the special discount.

WOW:eek:;)That is the truth ,the whole truth but nothing but the truth.Oh by the way to calm the merky water they do give one added on OBC to try and soften the blow.:rolleyes:

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that you are paying 200% plus and additional $1000? The price that is quoted on the Princess site includes the up to $1000 discount. A single friend of mine booked the same cruise as my husband and I did on the same day. We both got the same twice as nice OBC. She got $300 and we each got $150. She paid the same price, less one port fees and taxes, as we did. I don't think you are paying any more than a couple is paying.

 

Here's the fine print on the fares.

† Savings of up to $1,000 USD per stateroom, (up to $500 per guest) is based on a per guest discount off applicable Launch Fares on a space-available basis at time of booking on select sailings. Launch Fares are offering fares and may not have been in effect for the past 90 days or resulted in actual sales in all categories. Intermediate discounts may have been taken and fares may remain at discounted levels after this promotion.

Edited January 24, 2016 by cactusrose

[RDC1]

Its the other way around, because of 3rd and 4th they hit the passenger limit and still have cabins that they cannot fill and sometimes sail empty.

 

Not really. Ship passenger limits usually atleast 20% higher then the lower berth number. An exception to that is the Oasis which runs about 16.7% higher than lower berth max. Emerald Princess for example has a lower berth capacity of 3092, yet has a passenger maximum of 3782 (22.3% higher). Don't know about you but I have yet to board a Princess ship where the announced passenger load is anywhere near their max passenger number. Have seen it hit on cruise lines that attract more families such as Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

 

Now while you might hit that number during school holiday periods when lots of family travel, cruise lines certainly do not hit it very often, otherwise their average occupancy rate would be higher then 105% they report in their financial data.

 

So what is your basis that Princess ships often hit their max passenger capacity?

 

The highest 3 month period that CCL across all of their lines achieved was 110.9 percent during the 3 months during the summer of 2015. So you probably had some cruises during that time that hit passenger max. However during the entire year they ran 105.7% meaning that during the other 9 months they had to run less then 105%. At that number most of the cruises were certainly below passenger max

[kruisey]

Maybe I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that you are paying 200% plus and additional $1000? The price that is quoted on the Princess site includes the up to $1000 discount. A single friend of mine booked the same cruise as my husband and I did on the same day. We both got the same twice as nice OBC. She got $300 and we each got $150. She paid the same price, less one port fees and taxes, as we did. I don't think you are paying any more than a couple is paying.

 

Here's the fine print on the fares.

† Savings of up to $1,000 USD per stateroom, (up to $500 per guest) is based on a per guest discount off applicable Launch Fares on a space-available basis at time of booking on select sailings. Launch Fares are offering fares and may not have been in effect for the past 90 days or resulted in actual sales in all categories. Intermediate discounts may have been taken and fares may remain at discounted levels after this promotion.

When solo booked was paying the same price as a couple for the cabin.Then 'The twice as nice' promotion came on line later in the year.Solo got the $300 OBC like the couple got $150 + $150.Then they also received $500 each =$1000 on the special discount sale while the solo(single) passenger is not entitled to. Ok then the solo is paying $1000 more because the couple got the discount and solo did not .So solo paying double rate with no discount. Were as the couple get of $500+$500 off the couple double price .I have spoken with Princess and their customer relations.They both cannot help because those are the rules of the promotion direct from Head Office.

Edited January 24, 2016 by kruisey

[kruisey]

Have cancelled my trip with Princess.

Nice to get extra OBC but that does not pay for my cabin at $354 per day.

I still keep get 'Specials' e- mails from Princess about OBC for all but cabin reductions ' Does not include Solo(Single) occupants' .So like a few said don't like, don't book.I cancelled .Now I am free as a birdie:D

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Have cancelled my trip with Princess.

Nice to get extra OBC but that does not pay for my cabin at $354 per day...

 

:eek: I can't say that I blame you at that price. The most I have ever paid for a cabin as a solo was approx. $225 per day (USD) for a midship balcony, and generally far less.