Senator Nelson calls for NTSB to investigate Anthems Feb 7 sailing.

[Aquahound]

Oh please. What are you their spokesman or something.

 

You seem unusually bitter in your last few posts. Are you on the ship? :confused:

[Phoenix1949]

Yes, that is the to be expected Port State inspection to see if anything relating to SOLAS, including the hull structure, was damaged. This they have every right to do, and I've always said it would most likely come. Then they will "assist" the Bahamians, who will be lead agency, and who will provide the final report. This will be a report on the company's ISM system, as I've also said would most likely happen, and the USCG is assisting in its SIS status.

 

Their insurance company might have a slight interest in the condition of the ship and also assess the damage.

 

And RCCl must have their own risk assessment team.

 

This will be the most inspected ship in the world before it leaves port.

[jackson bernard]

You seem unusually bitter in your last few posts. Are you on the ship? :confused:

 

 

Someone needs to do an independent investigation of exactly what happened. Specifically they need to know if the ship was allowed to sail due to stupidity, arrogance or just bad luck.

 

All this talk about jurisdiction may be accurate, but if the government threatens to not let them in the USA anymore I think they will change their tune, let the investigation begin, let the chips fall where they may and make any necessary changes. What else would they do?

 

My god what these 5000 - 6000 people went thru is horrific, and the government should do whatever it can to prevent it from happening again.

 

If the Bahamas government says the ship is safe, and the USA is not allowed to investigate then let them home port that and every other RCCL ship in the Bahamas.

 

You will see how fast they cooperate.

[mark290]

And please note that she said they made a mistake and "didn't provide the vacation experience" not that they "placed people's lives in danger", because they didn't.

 

Actually the full quote i read was:

 

“We made a mistake,” she acknowledged. “We didn’t deliver the vacation experience to our guests that we aim to deliver, and we feel very bad about that. And we are happy that people were not injured.”

 

If that is the correct quote it reads as three different statements.

 

1 - “We made a mistake,” she acknowledged.

 

2 - “We didn’t deliver the vacation experience to our guests that we aim to deliver, and we feel very bad about that.

 

3 - And we are happy that people were not injured.”

[mcatmcat]

And please note that she said they made a mistake and "didn't provide the vacation experience" not that they "placed people's lives in danger", because they didn't.

 

 

Don't worry she might have to repeat herself in front of Senator Nelson

[grand isle joe]

I, for one. would LOVE to sail from the Bahamas. Just think how les expensive it would be when you skip all those U.S. "port charges" (a.k.a. shakedowns).....:cool:

[Aquahound]

Don't worry she might have to repeat herself in front of Senator Nelson

 

I doubt it. Senator Nelson shouldn't get too far in his endeavor before it's exposed how much he took in from contributions from Carnival Corp.

 

Wait...what am I saying? I guess there's still some glimmer of hope in me that an ethical politician will one day exist. :rolleyes:

[Seaworthy01]

I guess there's still some glimmer of hope in me that an ethical politician will one day exist. :rolleyes:

 

 

What planet are you on? Is there a typo in there?

[Aquahound]

What planet are you on? Is there a typo in there?

 

Ha! So true. Every now and then, I need yanked back down to Earth. ;)

[Phoenix1949]

It is in the cruise lines best interest to have the ship inspected and their actions investigated. That's the best way for them to alleviate everyone's concerns. Although, for some that will never be enough.

 

Someone must be punished!

[mcatmcat]

To be honest, I never expected this little mistake from royal to get that far [emoji15]. I have never seen royal is waters so hot like right now.

[Seaworthy01]

Correct me if I'm out of line here. If the Capt. is clear of any responsibility (blame) for this cause it sounds like the cruise line is taking most if not all of the blame by stating they had made a mistake. Unless that statement includes the Captains decision to continue on course. After all said and done and the Capt. continues to sail on the Anthem, if there were to be a public outcry to replace the Capt. can that be cause for the cruise line to replace him at that point?

Edited February 10, 2016 by Seaworthy01

[Capt_BJ]

anyone considered lookin at the NSTB report on the Norwegian Dawn incident which is similar ....

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB0503.pdf

 

After examining the Norwegian Dawn in Charleston and monitoring the temporary repairs, Coast Guard investigators reboarded the vessel when it landed in New York on April 18 to continue their inquiry. The Norwegian Dawn then embarked on another cruise. When the vessel reached its first scheduled stop in Port Canaveral, Florida, the investigation resumed, with the Bahamian Maritime Authority as the lead investigative agency. One investigator from National Transportation Safety Board headquarters in Washington, D.C., traveled to Port Canaveral to join the investigation, along with two investigators from the Coast Guard marine safety office in Jacksonville, Florida, who conducted an informal investigation. The investigators completed their work on April 20.

 

and what type of outcomes came to be ....

 

(none)

 

opinion of cause translated to lay speak "poor seaman ship"

[chengkp75]

Correct me if I'm out of line here. If the Capt. is clear of any responsibility (blame) for this cause it sounds like the cruise line is taking most if not all of the blame by stating they had made a mistake. Unless that statement includes the Captains decision to continue on course. After all said and done and the Capt. continues to sail on the Anthem, if there were to be a public outcry to replace the Capt. can that be cause for the cruise line to replace him at that point?

 

The Captain can be fired, transferred, or demoted at any time, pretty much without cause. If the line feels that their PR is better served by doing so, they are free to do so. He is then free to find employment with another line. The one thing the company cannot do is remove his license as Master, which only the country that issued it, Norway I believe, can do, and only after due process of law. He may have some legal right to a hearing for cause in the Bahamas, but I'm no expert on Bahamian labor law.

[captdave]

It is in the cruise lines best interest to have the ship inspected and their actions investigated. That's the best way for them to alleviate everyone's concerns. Although, for some that will never be enough.

 

Someone must be punished!

 

Most company's don't.

 

Hide what actually happened, finally...blame the crew.

 

CaptDave

[Seaworthy01]

The Captain can be fired, transferred, or demoted at any time, pretty much without cause. If the line feels that their PR is better served by doing so, they are free to do so. He is then free to find employment with another line. The one thing the company cannot do is remove his license as Master, which only the country that issued it, Norway I believe, can do, and only after due process of law. He may have some legal right to a hearing for cause in the Bahamas, but I'm no expert on Bahamian labor law.

 

 

So the poor guy could be treading on thin ice for some time. We'll see how it all turns out in the weeks to come.

[captdave]

The Captain can be fired, transferred, or demoted at any time, pretty much without cause. If the line feels that their PR is better served by doing so, they are free to do so. He is then free to find employment with another line. The one thing the company cannot do is remove his license as Master, which only the country that issued it, Norway I believe, can do, and only after due process of law. He may have some legal right to a hearing for cause in the Bahamas, but I'm no expert on Bahamian labor law.

 

How many people want to hire a Captain who can't even get on his iphone and check the weather?

 

There is way more to this story, too many people dropped the ball.

 

CaptDave

[chengkp75]

So the poor guy could be treading on thin ice for some time. We'll see how it all turns out in the weeks to come.

 

I don't believe that. Other ships have had similar experiences, such as the Norwegian Dawn, and nothing was done to the Captain. It's pretty clear to me that the cruise line is standing behind the Captain with their announcement of a new "advisory" committee.

 

How many people want to hire a Captain who can't even get on his iphone and check the weather?

 

There is way more to this story, too many people dropped the ball.

 

CaptDave

 

Please. Stick to planes, I won't make any comments about pilots. There is so much contradiction of what was or was not forecast, and when, that I'm not basing anything on what I hear on CC or even the media. I might just go up on the bridge and see if the 2nd Mate still has the NOAA forecasts (we don't pay much attention to the forecast for the East Coast, since we're in the Gulf) for those days to see for myself what was out there.

 

And, as I've said repeatedly, on many threads about this, it all boils down to the ISM code. Not sure if general aviation has anything like this, but it is a formalized code that outlines how a shipping company does its business, virtually all aspects of its business, not just safety. These company specific systems are based on the ISM code promulgated by the IMO as international standards. Part of this ISM system is the "passage planning" area, where the Captain, in conjunction with his Navigating Officer, and other Senior Deck Officers will make decisions based on destination, time to arrival, weather, tides, pilotage, restricted areas, etc, etc. If he has followed these procedures as outlined, then no fault can be attached to his decision to proceed. If he did not follow these procedures, then he is liable for disciplinary action or termination, again as per the ISM code. If the flag state, and only the flag state (the Bahamas) determines that the company's ISM code is deficient, then they will make requirements to change the policies and procedures. This is what the Bahamas Maritime Authority has already stated they will be doing, studying the process (the ISM code). The company's compliance with the ISM code is audited by third parties, in the case of ships, generally by the classification society (think of them as the ship's insurance underwriters).

[cruisenfever]

The Captain can be fired, transferred, or demoted at any time, pretty much without cause. If the line feels that their PR is better served by doing so, they are free to do so. He is then free to find employment with another line. The one thing the company cannot do is remove his license as Master, which only the country that issued it, Norway I believe, can do, and only after due process of law. He may have some legal right to a hearing for cause in the Bahamas, but I'm no expert on Bahamian labor law.

Chen, do you remember the Brilliance incident over in the Med on December 13, 2010 when they were trying to enter the Port of Alexandria during a very bad storm? If I remember correctly, the Captain at that time took early retirement after all was said and done. Brilliance sustained far more damage than Anthem and there were many more injuries.

Edited February 11, 2016 by cruisenfever

[GregD]

The Captain can be fired, transferred, or demoted at any time, pretty much without cause. If the line feels that their PR is better served by doing so, they are free to do so. He is then free to find employment with another line. The one thing the company cannot do is remove his license as Master, which only the country that issued it, Norway I believe, can do, and only after due process of law. He may have some legal right to a hearing for cause in the Bahamas, but I'm no expert on Bahamian labor law.

Unless he's unioned which I have no idea if RCI officers are. That still won't prevent anything from happening of course, but I doubt it'll come to that.

From my experience what normally happens in most cases is the Capt will take a shore based job in the HQ. But looks like the Capt isn't to blame in this case.

[chengkp75]

Chen, do you remember the Brilliance incident over in the Med on December 13, 2010 when they were trying to enter the Port of Alexandria during a very bad storm? If I remember correctly, the Captain at that time took early retirement after all was said and done. Brilliance sustained far more damage than Anthem and there were many more injuries.

 

I do remember it, but just brushed up on the details. The ship, along with a whole bunch of other ships were trying to get into Alex and out of the storm. I remember at the time thinking "why would he head into port in a violent storm", but then again I was half a world away in the Gulf of Mexico, so I didn't have all the facts. The Med is pretty hemmed in, not a lot of sea room to ride out a storm, so the port may have been the best, or only option. Anyway, just in front of the Brilliance, another ship turned into the way, and the Captain had to slow down to the point where the stabilizers lost effectiveness, and the ship started rolling violently. I'm not sure Brilliance had more damage than Anthem, but she certainly had more injuries (and one eventual death) because of the violent rolling which literally flung people across the rooms. Nothing was done to the Captain as a result of the incident, but he felt devastated by having subjected the passengers to this, even though the other ship was at fault, so he did retire.

[captdave]

 

But looks like the Capt isn't to blame in this case.

 

I don't believe Royal Caribbean would be calling the ship making command decision without the Captains knowledge or approval.

 

The Captain signs the paperwork, his ticket is on the line every day.

 

CaptDave

[mek]

Chen, do you remember the Brilliance incident over in the Med on December 13, 2010 when they were trying to enter the Port of Alexandria during a very bad storm? If I remember correctly, the Captain at that time took early retirement after all was said and done. Brilliance sustained far more damage than Anthem and there were many more injuries.

 

I was booked on that cruise, but had to cancel 2 weeks prior to departure for a medical reason. We had a wonderful overnight trip planned for Egypt that had been planned on the roll call, so I had become very friendly with several people and continued to chat with them during the cruise. The morning after the storm we were talking about the incident and it seems to me that the Brilliance incident was worse than Anthem's yet from what I can recall, the cruise continued and wasn't cut short.

[sjn911]

I do remember it, but just brushed up on the details. The ship, along with a whole bunch of other ships were trying to get into Alex and out of the storm. I remember at the time thinking "why would he head into port in a violent storm", but then again I was half a world away in the Gulf of Mexico, so I didn't have all the facts. The Med is pretty hemmed in, not a lot of sea room to ride out a storm, so the port may have been the best, or only option. Anyway, just in front of the Brilliance, another ship turned into the way, and the Captain had to slow down to the point where the stabilizers lost effectiveness, and the ship started rolling violently. I'm not sure Brilliance had more damage than Anthem, but she certainly had more injuries (and one eventual death) because of the violent rolling which literally flung people across the rooms. Nothing was done to the Captain as a result of the incident, but he felt devastated by having subjected the passengers to this, even though the other ship was at fault, so he did retire.

Interesting, timely and sad story.

[xpcdoojk]

Most company's don't.

 

Hide what actually happened, finally...blame the crew.

 

CaptDave

 

O good lord.... Whose gulf stream did you fly... Saddahm Hussein's?

 

What exactly is your issue..

 

You know nothing of the actual events and yet you are all about condemning what by all facts seems to be a perfectly good ships master....

 

C'mon what is your dark secret that you have hidden that made you such a hateful dude...

 

Don't be shy, we don't judge here...

 

JC