Gratuities on QM2

[Solent Richard]

You've not completed your cruise yet, are you expecting the service throughout the ship to be less than satisfactory.

 

Most of us seasoned Cunarder's on this board would leave them in place and even offer something very small in addition to the auto grats, the evening before disembarkation.

 

A litte bit of extra paper money into the hand of your favourite crew member is all you need to do ...no need for this big show off thing with envelopes at the dinner table ;)

 

Hi Bell Boy.

 

I'm glad you said 'most'.

[Solent Richard]

Yes! I would totally favor that. That way, the cheapskates would HAVE to pay along with everyone else. Then those of us who always feel the service is top notch, can tip extra at the end of our cruise. The only trip where I felt not as special was on the QV. We still tipped extra, but without a doubt the waitstaff really rushed us along. We were always done by 7:30 at the latest.

 

Excellent post Keith. I'm with you one hundred percent.

 

Of course I'd be happy to see auto-grata added to the onboard account with no option to remove. Just a short mention in the T&Cs to say that's the procedure.

 

All deserving staff get their tips and Cunard maintain their competitive headline price when selling cruises.

 

We know it makes sense, We Are Cunard.:D:D

[Solent Richard]

Doesn't this seem a bit sinister, that so much guest information is given to staff?

 

David.

 

Hello David.

 

On the other side of the coin I'd say that the staff are probably more informed about guests behaviour through plain observation of that behaviour whether it is in the stateroom, dining room or any of the bars.

 

Owt sinister about that.

 

And there speaks a retired hotelier.:D:D

[Adammara]

We have had several cruises on Celebrity Eclipse, and our cabin was next to the room stewards service room. The door was normally closed, and if it was open there was normal a steward in it - but not always, and a quick look in revealed a list of cabin numbers, occupants names and the tip situation.

 

We always left the tips on, but on our last cruise on Constellation, frankly hardly any of the staff deserved a tip at all. Never had such terrible service!

[SALAD MUNCHER]

An article this week published on CC:

 

Passengers on Royal Caribbean International ships sailing on or after May 1 will be required to pay 55 cents more per person, per day for gratuities. The new daily amount, added automatically to passenger bills, will be $13.50 (up from $12.95) for standard cabin cruisers and $16.50 (up from $15.95) for people in suites.

 

Passengers with existing bookings can pre-pay their gratuities before April 14 to lock in the current rate.

 

Royal Caribbean last upped its gratuities about 10 months ago, going from $12 to $12.95 for standard cabins and $14.25 to $15.95 for suites.

 

According to the line, the new increase puts Royal Caribbean "in line with its competitors in the industry and recognize the exceptional work that Royal Caribbean's staff and crew does to deliver unforgettable vacations every day."

 

As with most lines, passengers can remove the daily gratuity; however, it does pay for tips for all crew members in the dining rooms and housekeeping. According to the line's website, of the $13.50, approximately $8.30 goes to dining and culinary services; stateroom attendants receive $3.85; suite attendants get $6.85 and housekeeping services get $1.35.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=6911

 

Out of interest, if these figures are indeed correct the grats received can be quite substantial. For example most have at least 10 cabins to service i.e. 20 passengers.

 

At $6.85 per px per day this equates to $137 (or £96.27) per day for the suite attendants.

 

At $3.85 stateroom attendants receive $77 per day. This figure is exactly the same as UK minimum wage @ £6.70 per hour (8 hr per day = £53.60 / $76.27). On a 10 day cruise, tips would amount to £536!! This is without their actual salary from Cunard!

 

To be fair, I have just returned from USA and all my bills in restaurants had at least 25% added, 9/10% tax plus at least 15% tips (most gave examples of what they suggest you should tip - anything from 15 to 22% was stated), so I completely understand why Americans believe these tips are 'normal'.

 

However in the UK all our bills include tax (VAT) and tips are left to your own discretion (10% is typically normal). This is why when faced with the 15-18% on all beverages (even water tea and coffee) and the daily charge they are shocked!

 

I know people on these boards always spout the line 'if you can afford to cruise you can afford to pay the grats' but in reality many (not all of course) of the passengers are pensioners (Current basic UK pension is £116 per week) or those who have saved hard for a long time to take a cruise, so it's not always that easy to find this extra amount, so please stop trying to make others feel guilty if they want to exercise their right to choose whether or not to pay these extras, and instead prefer to tip in they way they they feel is right for them.

 

This kind of berating people does nothing to help either passengers or crew members. Just saying.....

[Salacia]

All cruise companies are well known for paying their waiters, bar stewards and cabin stewards an appalling monthly pay and then promise them higher wages from the gratuities that they expect customers to pay. US has a lower national minimum wage than in the UK so that's why there is not such an issue with paying gratuities from some UK cruisers. I am sorry but in this day and age they should sell a cruise at an appropriate price to cover decent wages and not have this issue with some not giving gratuities and others feel they have to or are bullied into double or even triple tipping. Paying your auto tip and then tipping for speciality restaurant waiters, room service and then 15-18% tax on all drinks is getting ridiculous and with current poor exchange rates of the US Dollar in the UK at the moment makes it an obscene addition to the price of your holiday for UK cruisers.

 

Just to mention that the minimum wage in the United States is established by each state. Several states have already passed legislation to raise their minimum wage. For example, just yesterday my state (NY) signed into law a bill to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour "...The bill will bump the state's $10 hourly minimum by 50 cents next year and to $11 in 2018. Hourly $1 raises will then come every January until 2022, unless the governor imposes a delay during an economic recession. Businesses with 25 or fewer employees have an extra year to comply.

 

Wages will rise with inflation each year thereafter." -Copied from

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/05/california-new-york-enact-15-minimum-wages.html

[SALAD MUNCHER]

Just to mention that the minimum wage in the United States is established by each state. Several states have already passed legislation to raise their minimum wage. For example, just yesterday my state (NY) signed into law a bill to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour "...The bill will bump the state's $10 hourly minimum by 50 cents next year and to $11 in 2018. Hourly $1 raises will then come every January until 2022, unless the governor imposes a delay during an economic recession. Businesses with 25 or fewer employees have an extra year to comply.

 

Wages will rise with inflation each year thereafter." -Copied from

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/04/05/california-new-york-enact-15-minimum-wages.html

 

So it seems the minimum wage is similar in the US and the UK! Does this include service staff e.g. waiting / kitchen staff? I always assumed from the comments on this board waiting staff in the US received about $3 per hour or less! Hence the way passengers from the USA tip so highly compared to the rest of the world.

[corporate services]

Out of interest, if these figures are indeed correct the grats received can be quite substantial. For example most have at least 10 cabins to service i.e. 20 passengers.

 

At $6.85 per px per day this equates to $137 (or £96.27) per day for the suite attendants.

 

At $3.85 stateroom attendants receive $77 per day. This figure is exactly the same as UK minimum wage @ £6.70 per hour (8 hr per day = £53.60 / $76.27). On a 10 day cruise, tips would amount to £536!! This is without their actual salary from Cunard!

 

To be fair, I have just returned from USA and all my bills in restaurants had at least 25% added, 9/10% tax plus at least 15% tips (most gave examples of what they suggest you should tip - anything from 15 to 22% was stated), so I completely understand why Americans believe these tips are 'normal'.

 

However in the UK all our bills include tax (VAT) and tips are left to your own discretion (10% is typically normal). This is why when faced with the 15-18% on all beverages (even water tea and coffee) and the daily charge they are shocked!

 

I know people on these boards always spout the line 'if you can afford to cruise you can afford to pay the grats' but in reality many (not all of course) of the passengers are pensioners (Current basic UK pension is £116 per week) or those who have saved hard for a long time to take a cruise, so it's not always that easy to find this extra amount, so please stop trying to make others feel guilty if they want to exercise their right to choose whether or not to pay these extras, and instead prefer to tip in they way they they feel is right for them.

 

This kind of berating people does nothing to help either passengers or crew members. Just saying.....

 

 

I wish there was a like button

[sandancer]

I have been told numerous times in the US that the wait staff (in some, not all) restaurants work for tips only and don't get paid by the management. Being gullible I tend to believe what I am told. Hmmm...... I won't fall for that one again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[balf]

I have been told numerous times in the US that the wait staff (in some, not all) restaurants work for tips only and don't get paid by the management. Being gullible I tend to believe what I am told. Hmmm...... I won't fall for that one again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

 

Yes, you are so right, we have all been conned for years, by the half given information and the different story told by any staff member you talk to.

 

Cunard, just do it and quote an upfront cruise price for

no added gratuities. I believe most people are now accepting that this is the way forward.

 

In the meantime the dissenter numbers are likely to increase.

 

How does that quote go - fooling all the people etc.

 

David.

[BlueRiband]

...Cunard, just do it and quote an upfront cruise price for no added gratuities. I believe most people are now accepting that this is the way forward...

 

A few weeks ago a poster called "ridiculous" the $702 in gratuities that he and his companion would pay for 26 days in a Grills suite.

 

Let's say Cunard instead rolls it into the fare. Cunard now looks "ridiculously $702 more expensive" then, say, a comparable itinerary on Celebrity. That's why mass market lines don't include gratuities. The moment Line Y includes them in the fare they immediately look more expensive than Line Z.

[SALAD MUNCHER]

A few weeks ago a poster called "ridiculous" the $702 in gratuities that he and his companion would pay for 26 days in a Grills suite.

 

Let's say Cunard instead rolls it into the fare. Cunard now looks "ridiculously $702 more expensive" then, say, a comparable itinerary on Celebrity. That's why mass market lines don't include gratuities. The moment Line Y includes them in the fare they immediately look more expensive than Line Z.

 

This may be true, but at least the potential passenger will know beforehand if they can afford it. The problem for many people booking a first cruise is they may not realise the cost of 'added extras':- not everyone is savvy and frequents these boards!

 

The fact is if you see beforehand the total cost you are much more likely to be happy with the fact grats are included. To Put it another way in UK VAT is already added to the displayed cost of goods, we don't like paying tax but we buy if the price is within our budget. In US tax is added afterwards so the customer who is unaware of this feels peeved because they have to add this extra amount to the price at the tills, and this may be more than they can afford to pay.

 

Once you get used to the fact tax / grats is included you can then feel confident the purchase is within budget and are happy to buy.

 

Other lines such as Regent and Crystal don't seem to suffer by including grats in the price shown....

 

It's psychology in action! :)

[balf]

A few weeks ago a poster called "ridiculous" the $702 in gratuities that he and his companion would pay for 26 days in a Grills suite.

 

Let's say Cunard instead rolls it into the fare. Cunard now looks "ridiculously $702 more expensive" then, say, a comparable itinerary on Celebrity. That's why mass market lines don't include gratuities. The moment Line Y includes them in the fare they immediately look more expensive than Line Z.

 

 

People are quite capable of working out the difference between a gratuity and no gratuity price. Cunard markets itself as a cut above the lesser lines, and one of the problems recently has been the attempt to match the cheapest. Is QM2 a superior value than Ventura or Britannia?

 

Very few people buy a cruise without quite a bit of research, though the losers to Cunard would probably be the freeloaders: no great loss really.

 

David.

[LondonTowner]

Salad Muncher

 

I agree with all the comments you have made so far. Everybody has different financial circumstances, so I think those people who say things like if you can afford a cruise you can afford tips etc are condescending. We have done both, left tips on and taken tips off.

 

Years ago we would never had considered cruising as it wouldn't have been our thing. We now try to do one once a year, but still enjoy our land holidays. However, years ago we wouldn't have been able to afford cruising.

 

I know a lot of 'old school' cruisers complain that standards have slipped. Well, it is all supply and demand and by dropping prices it makes cruising more attainable to a wider audience, but if prices are cheaper, obviously cuts have to be made somewhere.

 

We also enjoy the formal evenings as it is something we don't do very often at home.

 

Back to the question, whether to tip or not, well, I think the question is usually asked by a first time cruiser, so if a reasonable, more or less yes or no answer can't be given, then don't bother.

 

Somebody you may have had to save a long time to go on their cruise doesn't want to be made feel guilty if they can't afford to tip as much as the cruise line is suggesting.

 

Personally, I would prefer to have an all inclusive price. When so much is made of gratuities it just makes me think the staff are not being paid a liveable wage.

[BlueRiband]

...Other lines such as Regent and Crystal don't seem to suffer by including grats in the price shown....

 

Regent and Crystal are premium lines and generally do not do mass market advertising so they target a more affluent demographic. (Regent BTW has the most restrictive cancellation policy in the business.) Even they are not really "all inclusive" - where included drinks and excursion packages are listed under "classic" or some similar name and premium choices come at extra cost.

 

Based on some of the posts regarding price comparisons, I would say that Cunard has a mass market price conscious passenger segment while the line also offers upscale categories.

 

I would hope that anybody about to spend a large sum of money would read the fine print and asterisks in any promotion regardless of whether it was their first cruise or their 50th. It's just good personal finance sense to know what one is committing to.

 

... Everybody has different financial circumstances, so I think those people who say things like if you can afford a cruise you can afford tips etc are condescending. We have done both, left tips on and taken tips off...

 

Well if you see it that way I fall into the "condescending" camp. By your logic anybody could plead personal "financial circumstances" as an excuse no to tip for anything, anywhere. Now that, I believe, is arrogant. "I'm a retiree/pensioner so I'm under no obligation to tip the staff."

Edited April 6, 2016 by BlueRiband

[SALAD MUNCHER]

 

Surely it is not for you, me, or anyone else to judge someone who feels, rightly or wrongly, that they need an excuse to remove grats. Sometimes an 'excuse' is a way of making themselves feel justified in what they do, as opposed to making themselves feel embarrassed because they cannot really in all honesty, afford to tip the amount 'suggested' by Cunard. Please why can't we all mind our own business and just worry about our own finances and leave others to worry about theirs, particularly as it is nothing to do with us in the first place! Get a grip for God's sake!

[LondonTowner]

Whether you want to tip or not is a personal choice and should not be obligatory. I have only had good service on cruise ships, but there are lots of posts from people who moan or seem to have very high expectations that seem not to receive such good service. If I felt the way some of them allegedly do, then I would probably reduce my tips.

 

Why should somebody who I have never met judge me via a travel forum. I'm not talking about myself as I have never asked the question, but by some replies I feel people are judging others.tBH I don't care what others think and would do what I thought best, but some people like to have guidance.

 

In the UK we don't have a tipping culture as in the US and hopefully, it will stay that way.

[LondonTowner]

Salad Muncher

 

Well said

[Salacia]

partial quote

In the UK we don't have a tipping culture as in the US and hopefully, it will stay that way.

 

I have no interest in engaging in a discussion of "tipping cultures", but may I respectfully point out that the subject of discussion is gratuities on board Cunard ships.

[rakkor]

There are plenty of places in the UK that automatically add a gratuity to the bill, but like Cunard you can ask for this to be removed .

 

This discussion here is about asking for the auto-gratuity to be removed before even sampling the service to be received with the excuse of wanting to decide who to tip personally.

 

It's my view that these people are the cheapskates, who wouldn't tip anyway as it's their money and there's no way they are giving any of it to anyone unless forced to do so.

 

And before you come on here saying I can't judge you without knowing you - I'm afraid you lose that right by coming onto a forum boasting about your cheapness to all and sundry.

[BlueRiband]

...This discussion here is about asking for the auto-gratuity to be removed before even sampling the service to be received with the excuse of wanting to decide who to tip personally.

 

It's my view that these people are the cheapskates, who wouldn't tip anyway as it's their money and there's no way they are giving any of it to anyone unless forced to do so...

 

That sums up the crux of the argument precisely. I'm amazed at the way some will parse the words "discretionary" and "gratuity" or use any excuse to remove them. The charges are spelled out to anybody who bothers to read the T&C. It's simple - if you don't like the way Cunard does business then take your business elsewhere.

 

I like what NCL did this past year: They will no longer remove gratuities on board. One has to get a form from the purser, describe why and how their complaint was no rectified, then scan or image it to a shore side office. Brilliant move by NCL. They now how a centralized, digitized, database in the passenger's own handwriting. Perhaps those who routinely remove gratuities and complain can be told, "We regret that we cannot deliver a satisfying experience for you and you may best be served by another line." I hope Cunard will do the same.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BlueRiband

[Yoshikitty]

Like how Cunard handles the auto-tip or not, we'll certainly not let the weakest and poorest ( cabin staff and others) pay for that by removing the servicecharge.

[Bogof1]

I like what NCL did this past year: They will no longer remove gratuities on board. One has to get a form from the purser, describe why and how their complaint was no rectified, then scan or image it to a shore side office. Brilliant move by NCL. They now how a centralized, digitized, database in the passenger's own handwriting.

 

Well one Reston I'm not gonna cruise NCL, don't remove gratuities but if I wanted a o would want it immediate. And as a point you can also increase your gratuities if you so wish, it's not just a case of removing

[keithm]

So it seems the minimum wage is similar in the US and the UK! Does this include service staff e.g. waiting / kitchen staff? I always assumed from the comments on this board waiting staff in the US received about $3 per hour or less! Hence the way passengers from the USA tip so highly compared to the rest of the world.

Yes, that's true. Those in the food service/hospitality fields ARE paid less per hour. The reason is that tips are generally expected to boost pay to WELL above the standard minimum range. A very good waiter/waitress in a really high end restaurant can quite easily make over $75K. Being in the food industry, the higher paid servers will TOTALLY deny that! In Canada, in order to "catch" those underreporting their income(much tip money is paid in cash here in the US)the Government has forced all restaurants to use a "pay at the table" system. The machine records the bill & any tip paid(except that in cash)That way they jack up the tax on most rest. workers. We ALWAYS pay cash tips when Richard & I travel. Being in the food/hospitality fields, we like to do our part to help out the staff. Do we help screw the gov. out of some taxes?? You're damn right we do!!

[keithm]

That sums up the crux of the argument precisely. I'm amazed at the way some will parse the words "discretionary" and "gratuity" or use any excuse to remove them. The charges are spelled out to anybody who bothers to read the T&C. It's simple - if you don't like the way Cunard does business then take your business elsewhere.

 

I like what NCL did this past year: They will no longer remove gratuities on board. One has to get a form from the purser, describe why and how their complaint was no rectified, then scan or image it to a shore side office. Brilliant move by NCL. They now how a centralized, digitized, database in the passenger's own handwriting. Perhaps those who routinely remove gratuities and complain can be told, "We regret that we cannot deliver a satisfying experience for you and you may best be served by another line." I hope Cunard will do the same.

OUCH!! I guess the truth hurts! We had a mother & son traveling with us on our first Cunard trip(2004 QM2)They removed the tip & stuck it back in their pocket. The part about them actually bragging about it, is what made me want to "sock" the son on the bus ride back. These 2 were such a royal PIA, that we kicked them out of our table & told them to eat elsewhere. Our table for 10 went to a table for 8 after that. None of the other people(there were nearly 50 in our group)allowed them to dine with them, either. You had to be there to have experienced it. Such low human beings! Luckily they never cruised after that. We actually "ponied" up extra cash to cover them at our table.