Captain in a panic

[Two 2 Tango]

Any port in a storm, wonder who came up with that one. I also wonder why people feel the need to defend an international shipping company who probably don't give a toss about you.

Can you not accept my view for just what it is "my view"

I have sent the identical report to P and O and expect they are big enough to be able to reply all by their selves, it just feels a bit like the knitters at the guillotine.

[pete14]

I really think it is out of order to allege that the Captain was in a panic. If the decision was made by the Captain rather than P&O head office in Southampton having seen the forecast or the port authorities in Cherbourg, it would not have been due to panic. Such conditions or potential storms being forecasted are hardly new to any captain and no doubt he made a rational decision based on the evidence and advice he had available and his own skills and experience. The safety of passengers would have been paramount in his decision. No passenger would have had all the evidence and experience the captain had so no passenger is qualified, nor do they have the right to come to the conclusion that the Captain panicked. In hindsight, as it turned out, maybe it would have been possible to dock in Cherbourg. However, the Captain did not have the benefit of hindsight. Caution and concern for the safety of his ship and passengers - yes; panic- definitely not.

[Presto2]

Have any of us on CC been responsible for the lives of about 5 thousand people?? If not -- then 'don't cast the first stone' and say what he or she should have done.

 

I can put up with complaints about service etc but when posters criticise staff who are in such a very, very responsible position for doing what they believe is right at the time, it does my head in.

[Presto2]

I also wonder why people feel the need to defend an international shipping company who probably don't give a toss about you.

QUOTE]

 

If the company doesn't care I am sure that the Captains do. We really are not just P&O cheer leaders and call a spade a spade. I accept some of your issues with your issues with P&O but on the safety issue I have to disagree

 

PS I don't knit - and if you check our history we have done other cruise lines.

[Haworth]

Any port in a storm, wonder who came up with that one. I also wonder why people feel the need to defend an international shipping company who probably don't give a toss about you.

Can you not accept my view for just what it is "my view"

I have sent the identical report to P and O and expect they are big enough to be able to reply all by their selves, it just feels a bit like the knitters at the guillotine.

 

Two 2 Tango

 

You are wasting your breath, some on this board would make the iceberg responsible if Titanic had been a P&O ship.

[MattyBarlow]

Interesting article about ships and hurricanes

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/outdoors/tips/a10688/how-ships-survive-a-hurricane-at-sea-16862613/

Edited March 30, 2016 by MattyBarlow

[mutziputzi]

Without commenting on the decision not to go to Cherbourg, we were filled with dread at the thought of another sea day. These are so boring as the original poster pointed out, a hairdressing demonstration! For goodness sake. We have now decided that p o is not for us after many many cruises, and no we haven't just got used to them we just prefer more choice in the daytime. We met a couple it was their first cruise and they were bored rigid, they thought the daytime entertainment dire.

 

It seems to me they are now just floating library's. The passengers are either walkers/talkers aimlessly walking round stopping to chat to anyone who will listen, or readers/sleepers. These can be found in any public lounge in the daytime, we were amazed how many people were asleep/reading in the glass house on 2 sea days people were queuing to eat. I can never understand why people just don't stay in their cabin to read.

[Adammara]

Looks like Two 2 Tango's hard hat is well dented.

 

I wonder if it is as dented as much as mine when I was critical a cruise we took on Celebrity Constellation in 2012. Far worse than any of our 27 P&O cruises, we only left P&O when we had big problems trying to delay a cruise when my wife had cancer.

[Presto2]

Looks like Two 2 Tango's hard hat is well dented.

 

I wonder if it is as dented as much as mine when I was critical a cruise we took on Celebrity Constellation in 2012. Far worse than any of our 27 P&O cruises, we only left P&O when we had big problems trying to delay a cruise when my wife had cancer.

 

We do feel for you in the situation - have been there.. and got battered on another holiday web site when we too cancelled. People can be so callous on line ...

 

I do think that Two 2 Tango's review was severe re comments for P&O, but we agree with some parts of it and agree with others.

 

Having said that, we are able to say which parts of the review we feel are fair or unfair. I am not a 'mega' P&O cruiser so am open to any constructive criticism and ideas.

[CRUISIN LINDA]

if you check our history we have done other cruise lines.

But not Thomson yet Presto :D:D:D

Edited March 30, 2016 by CRUISIN LINDA

[Presto2]

But not Thomson yet Presto :D:D:D

 

Ha ha ha , we're being stalked over here Linda!!

 

Now if Thomson had a cruise ship that was as good as their loyal cruisers we may just give it a go ;-)

[chengkp75]

Any port in a storm, wonder who came up with that one. I also wonder why people feel the need to defend an international shipping company who probably don't give a toss about you.

Can you not accept my view for just what it is "my view"

I have sent the identical report to P and O and expect they are big enough to be able to reply all by their selves, it just feels a bit like the knitters at the guillotine.

 

As the British would say, I don't give a toss about P&O, and I'm not going to comment on your guest services complaints, they aren't important to me, but I'm sure they are to you.

 

What I will do is take you to task for lambasting the Captain. Just the fact that you asked for a cite of maritime law that says stay at sea in a storm shows how very, very little you know of the maritime industry. I've sailed as engineer for 40 years, and Chief Engineer for 30+, and I can sure tell you that for the majority of the time, I would feel safer in the open ocean during the worst storms (and I've had them) than in most ports. Any given port can be a safe refuge at any particular time, depending on the weather at that time, while in another storm it would break ships apart if docked there.

 

Just as I defended the Captain of the Anthem of the Seas a few weeks back here on CC, and was justified when even the USCG found no fault with his decision to proceed into the storm, I defend this Captain's decision to keep the ship at sea.

[CRUISIN LINDA]

Ha ha ha , we're being stalked over here Linda!!

 

Now if Thomson had a cruise ship that was as good as their loyal cruisers we may just give it a go ;-)

As you can see we are giving the Discovery a try in September, so will let you know what it is like Presto :)

[Presto2]

As you can see we are giving the Discovery a try in September, so will let you know what it is like Presto :)

 

Have been on the IOS so, though we had a great tome, we are happy to avoid it in the school holidays.

 

Each to their own and happy cruising to everyone :-)

 

(Sounds like Scrooge in the Christmas Carol.......... heeee heeee.)

[kalos]

Hi folks just back from the Azura and whilst on-board I went along to the Theatre where Capt Robert Camby was holding a Q&A Show.

 

Some of his questions did include "Why is it that you can just drop a port if you feel like it ?"

 

His reply .. I cannot do that even as Captain of this ship. Let me explain that most people think I can but it is not true.

Things have changed a hell of a lot in the last ten years or so more so due to the Costa incident.

 

Do you remember years ago in Tenerife the horrific airline crash back in the days when Captain was king?

The other two cockpit officers challenged him and were told to "shut up" which they did, sending them to their deaths.

I know this as I have heard this tape of the plane which ran through the fog into another plane already on the runway.

Every three years I go to Amsterdam as do all other officers and have to listen to things like this and the Concordia tragedy before we are tested

in a purpose built Ships Bridge Simulator just like Aircraft have.

 

He also went onto say .. I could leave here now and go onto the Bridge and say " Oh that island looks nice, lets head for it ."

 

The response would be " NO " from the three officers on watch.

 

I could ask for my second in command to tell them the but answer would be the same...."NO"

 

The days when a Captain can say do what I say are long gone I'm pleased to say.

 

In stormy weather we can hold a meeting and if agreed then head for a port but even then a Harbour Master or his Pilot team can say ..

"You're not coming in" and that would be the end of it, we would not go in .

 

Talking of pilots that board our ship, people think he runs the ship once on-board , he does not, he can only advise.

If he was to say go 12 deg portside . I or another senior officer will tell the watch team ok I agree or otherwise.

 

Am I in charge at all times ? Again no , I can only work so long and I am logged via an electronic system and should I overwork those hours

even by minutes and there was an incident I would be the one held responsible as I should have been resting ..simple as that.

 

So be assured that any action this ship makes is accountable to at least five top officers. These days Captains do not just steer a ship I am responsible forit making money along with many other things . My main one is the crew ,I look after them knowing then they will look after you.

 

So there you have it , the thoughts of a captain who in his words again,... is more of a Managing Director of Azura these days

and from what he was saying this goes for any cruise line not just P&O.:cool:

Edited April 2, 2016 by kalos

[chengkp75]

Hi folks just back from the Azura and whilst on-board I went along to the Theatre where Capt Robert Camby was holding a Q&A Show.

 

Some of his questions did include "Why is it that you can just drop a port if you feel like it ?"

 

His reply .. I cannot do that even as Captain of this ship. Let me explain that most people think I can but it is not true.

Things have changed a hell of a lot in the last ten years or so more so due to the Costa incident.

 

Do you remember years ago in Tenerife the horrific airline crash back in the days when Captain was king?

The other two cockpit officers challenged him and were told to "shut up" which they did, sending them to their deaths.

I know this as I have heard this tape of the plane which ran through the fog into another plane already on the runway.

Every three years I go to Amsterdam as do all other officers and have to listen to things like this and the Concordia tragedy before we are tested

in a purpose built Ships Bridge Simulator just like Aircraft have.

 

He also went onto say .. I could leave here now and go onto the Bridge and say " Oh that island looks nice, lets head for it ."

 

The response would be " NO " from the three officers on watch.

 

I could ask for my second in command to tell them the but answer would be the same...."NO"

 

The days when a Captain can say do what I say are long gone I'm pleased to say.

 

In stormy weather we can hold a meeting and if agreed then head for a port but even then a Harbour Master or his Pilot team can say ..

"You're not coming in" and that would be the end of it, we would not go in .

 

Talking of pilots that board our ship, people think he runs the ship once on-board , he does not, he can only advise.

If he was to say go 12 deg portside . I or another senior officer will tell the watch team ok I agree or otherwise.

 

Am I in charge at all times ? Again no , I can only work so long and I am logged via an electronic system and should I overwork those hours

even by minutes and there was an incident I would be the one held responsible as I should have been resting ..simple as that.

 

So be assured that any action this ship makes is accountable to at least five top officers. These days Captains do not just steer a ship I am responsible forit making money along with many other things . My main one is the crew ,I look after them knowing then they will look after you.

 

So there you have it , the thoughts of a captain who in his words again,... is more of a Managing Director of Azura these days

and from what he was saying this goes for any cruise line not just P&O.:cool:

 

To be honest, this has been the way it has been for decades, nearly as long as I've been sailing (40 yrs), not just since the Concordia. It was made more formal, and more training was required way back in 1984 when the STCW (Standards of Training, Competency, and Watchkeeping) were adopted by the IMO.

 

And yes, in an organization as large as a cruise ship's crew, the Captain is more like a CEO (we used to call him the "mayor"), than a Captain on a cargo ship, since his responsibilities have to be spread further.

 

But, as to whether or not he can decide to drop a port, then yes, he can do so, but must of course answer to the owners for any lost revenue caused by his action.

[jeanlyon]

As the British would say, I don't give a toss about P&O, and I'm not going to comment on your guest services complaints, they aren't important to me, but I'm sure they are to you.

 

What I will do is take you to task for lambasting the Captain. Just the fact that you asked for a cite of maritime law that says stay at sea in a storm shows how very, very little you know of the maritime industry. I've sailed as engineer for 40 years, and Chief Engineer for 30+, and I can sure tell you that for the majority of the time, I would feel safer in the open ocean during the worst storms (and I've had them) than in most ports. Any given port can be a safe refuge at any particular time, depending on the weather at that time, while in another storm it would break ships apart if docked there.

 

Just as I defended the Captain of the Anthem of the Seas a few weeks back here on CC, and was justified when even the USCG found no fault with his decision to proceed into the storm, I defend this Captain's decision to keep the ship at sea.

 

Very well said. It would depend entirely on the direction of the wind, the sea state and many other things. Just because one person didn't go to Guernsey and went to Cherbourg instead, that again would be to do with the weather conditions and state of the tide at the time. There are massive tides around Alderney and guernsey and they also have dangerous waters with rocks and reefs. Cherbourg on the other hand is free of massive tides and rocks, but even so, in a Force 11-12, any port is a difficult manoevre, except perhaps southampton, because once you are in the Solent, things tend to be calmer.

[Josy1953]

Over the years we have missed several ports but it has never crossed my mind to think that the captain is panicky, I would far rather miss a port than be on ship that has an emergency situation caused by attempting to enter a port in potentially dangerous conditions. The captains are all experienced and are responsible people so I would always defer to their superior knowledge about what is safe or not for the ship and those on it.