Flying to AUs next March, need expertise

[Twickenham]

Love the look of those Qantas PE seats. I may have to put getting those seats as the top priority and fly thru wherever to get them.

 

It's all about choices - and I personally will put on-board comfort as my priority over routings or avoiding certain airports. BTW, you can specify 'Premium Economy' when searching on ITA Matrix.

 

Later today I am going to start checking out potential flights from ABQ to SYD. I know it is too soon for the return trip. Not to keep beating a dead horse, but does anyone have any ideas on waiting to book the RT flight, or booking the flight to SYD now, and the return flight next month? I think I have read there really isn't discount for booking RT anymore, and if I book the flight to SYD right now, I would have the best chance of getting PE seats. Although probably not the lowest cost over the next year. I am willing to take that chance.

 

While US and Canada domestic flights are often simply priced as one-way, internationally it's often a completely different story. Price out both ways for dates that are currently available, just to see the difference, but personally I would probably wait until both dates are available.

[Bowie MeMe]

We flew to Auckland 2 years ago. I am such a fan of New Zealand after spending more than 3 weeks there. We took an 8 day cruise on a small eco ship (60 passengers doing South Island fjords so wonderful). The rest of the time we did drive tour of both islands. Beautiful, friendly, rather expensive country with the most wonderful gardens and wild flowers.

 

When flying to or from New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia we take a stop in Tahiti or Fiji or even Bali. The most wonderful way to get away from jet lag. In Tahiti we use the Intercontenital resort as it is not far from airport. We went on Air Tahiti Nui with a special stopover rate that was very competitive and we used credit card star alliance points. Once in NZ there is a discount no frills (by that pay for bag, seat etc on top the basic fare but really works well) airline (Jet Star?) that has flights for NZ and Australia that are fairly thrifty. We went from Washington DC to SFO (night in hotel) to Tahiti (3 night rest and snorkel break) to Sydney, or Brisbane (great little city) and for NZ to Auckland then to Wellington (another great little city).

 

I agree that Ayers Rock and the Olgas (I liked this rock formation better than the big one Ayers) are really worthy of seeing. Understand that it is a 3-4 hour flight from Sydney. It is not at all a one day trip. IMHO it takes at least 3 days if you fly out to Alice Springs then on to the hotel complex then next morning you see sunrise over the rock and visit the smaller rocks (few bathrooms warning! go light on the hot chocolate) then fly back to Sydney or for us and 8 hour flight to Adelaide -- my favorite of all Australian cities. Ayer's Rock is NOT near anything !

 

From our month in Australia -- the only city that I though we did not leave enough time for was the 3 days in Sydney. I am trying to get back to see and do more in this wonderful place.

[NoWhiners]

Just came back to get some previous info and saw new posts--great!

 

Twickenham--yes, I agree and am defintely willing to even fly thru LA to get a Qantas PE seat :D. thanks for the note about PE when searching ITA matrix.

 

Another question, perhaps you know--if I wait until next month to book the RT, will I jeopardize getting PE seats for us both ways? I guess I am wondering what the capacity is for these seats? I'm sure when I do my search it will give some info but if you're still online, maybe you know?

 

Bowie MeMe--yes, this would be a good option if we had more time. As it is, we will be away for a little more than a month, which is all we can stand away from our dog :o But what you described sounds delightful!

 

I think we will try and do all of Sydney and places like Blue Mountains but I seriously doubt anyone is interested in flying to see The Rock. i do know it is out in the middle of nowhere.

 

thank you all

ML

Edited April 12, 2016 by NoWhiners

[NoWhiners]

Update, new questions!! I should have asked these before:

 

Anyone have any advice as to the minimum time between flights, both on the way to and from from Sydney? it looks like we will either have to go thru DFW or LAX (for Qantas). Some returning flights only allow us about 90 minutes between arrival and departure, which seems fast to unload, clear Customs, and hike to gate. I am familiar with DFW and 90 minutes doesn't seem like enough but I haven't flown internationally thru DFW.

 

Update to the update: so far, it looks like Qantas flight in and out of LA next February are all 747, while DFW uses the A380. Same price for a RT (using the wrong dates but similar schedule). can't book our flights just yet. Does the metal usually change over the course of a year?

 

Also, can anyone tell me the difference in PE in a 747 vs the A380? I am guessing the A380 is a lot better. Some Qantas flights (thru AA) have the returning flight on 747. These seem to have shorter layovers. We could select an A380 both ways with much longer layovers, which is fine with me.

 

Thanks for your patience

ML

Edited April 12, 2016 by NoWhiners

[Alaskanb]

http://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/B747-refresh/global/en#premium-economy

Do you have Global Entry? It made immigration pretty quick in LA but still had the wait for customs. I'm always happier with longer layovers.

[Gardyloo]

Another question, perhaps you know--if I wait until next month to book the RT, will I jeopardize getting PE seats for us both ways? I guess I am wondering what the capacity is for these seats? I'm sure when I do my search it will give some info but if you're still online, maybe you know?

There's little risk of losing the chance for PE in both directions. And in fact booking early can sometimes backfire. The airlines don't know their own operating costs (fuel, etc.) that far ahead, so the initial prices are sometimes higher than later. The airline "hedges" against losing money by having you pay more to cover their risk. Then later, when they have a better handle on their internal costs, prices sometimes come down. I like to say when booking airfare that sometimes early birds get cats instead of worms.

 

Update, new questions!! I should have asked these before:

 

Anyone have any advice as to the minimum time between flights, both on the way to and from from Sydney? it looks like we will either have to go thru DFW or LAX (for Qantas). Some returning flights only allow us about 90 minutes between arrival and departure, which seems fast to unload, clear Customs, and hike to gate. I am familiar with DFW and 90 minutes doesn't seem like enough but I haven't flown internationally thru DFW.

 

Update to the update: so far, it looks like Qantas flight in and out of LA next February are all 747, while DFW uses the A380. Same price for a RT (using the wrong dates but similar schedule). can't book our flights just yet. Does the metal usually change over the course of a year?

 

Also, can anyone tell me the difference in PE in a 747 vs the A380? I am guessing the A380 is a lot better. Some Qantas flights (thru AA) have the returning flight on 747. These seem to have shorter layovers. We could select an A380 both ways with much longer layovers, which is fine with me.

 

Thanks for your patience

ML

 

It's far enough out that there certainly could be equipment changes in the meantime. It's anybody's guess, but Qantas is trying to get rid of its 747s at a rapid clip; they're getting quite old. However, the seating and interiors have been kept up to date, so you'll get the same seats in PE regardless of the aircraft.

 

It's also worth mentioning that American is also rolling out a premium economy product starting later this year - https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/duringFlight/seats/premiumeconomy.jsp - which looks very nice and comparable (or nicer) than Qantas'.

 

Regarding connection times, do yourself a favor and sign up for Global Entry. It will make both coming and going a breeze compared to not having it. http://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-entry

 

I've gone through international > domestic at DFW in under 45 min. on several occasions, other times it can be over an hour. Same goes for LAX. But on one ticket you'll be "protected" to the next flight in case you mis-connect.

[NoWhiners]

Alaskanb and Gardyloo--no we don't have global entry. We do have plenty of time to get it but I don't see us doing enough international flights over the next 5 years to make it pay off, not considering that it might help us make shorter connections :)

 

Gardyloo--I have been looking at AA, thanks for the link for AA PE. That might work.

 

I don't know if I understand "but on one ticket you'll be "protected" to the next flight in case you mis-connect". Do you mean if we book a flight from Sydney to ABQ (for example) and we get delayed by Customs or Immigration, or something else, we would be re-booked on another flight?

 

Thank you once again. You must fly a lot!!

 

ML

[Gardyloo]

I don't know if I understand "but on one ticket you'll be "protected" to the next flight in case you mis-connect". Do you mean if we book a flight from Sydney to ABQ (for example) and we get delayed by Customs or Immigration, or something else, we would be re-booked on another flight?

Exactly. The airlines set "minimum connection times" (MCT) at the various airports they serve. These vary within the same airport depending on whether the incoming flight if from overseas, therefore requiring passengers to go through immigration and customs, or domestic (no formalities) and whether the outbound flight is domestic or international. MCTs also take into account whether you're changing airlines too, for example switching from American to Qantas or v.v. The MCTs are set to make sure the passengers (and their luggage) don't miss the next flight. For example, AA (domestic) to Qantas (international) at LAX has a 70 min. MCT; going the other way (i.e. through immigration/customs) it's 2h. At DFW the same numbers are 50 min. outbound and 70 min. inbound.

 

If you buy a ticket that includes both the international and domestic flights, and if the inbound plane is late, or the lines at immigration are too long, so that your outbound flight leaves without you, you'll be given seats on the next flight that has seats available.

 

If you buy two separate tickets, say one for the international flights and a second (e.g. Southwest) for the domestic legs, then missing the connection means you've forfeited the next flight. Sometimes the airline with the missed flight will make good, but they don't have to and are within their rights to make you buy a (very expensive walk-up) replacement ticket.

 

Sometimes, however, you may need to do the "two-ticket" arrangement. This is especially the case if the "class of service" (economy, premium economy, business, first) can't be lined up. For example, in your case of flying from ABQ to, say, LAX to catch a Qantas flight in premium economy, you might find that because AA doesn't have premium economy, AA's computers will assign you to a more expensive fare category for the ABQ-LAX-ABQ segments, making the total ticket way more expensive than flying on two separate tickets, one a cheap economy round trip to/from LAX, the other the Qantas premium economy ticket to/from Oz. This is easy to check using a website like Expedia.

 

In cases where that happens, there are two smart moves. One is to phone one of the airlines and explain the situation; they can usually resolve this, even if it results in you having to pay $25 or some such for a telephone booking. The other - less secure - way is to give yourself a LOT of time between flights so that if one is delayed the other one isn't forfeited.

 

If the two airlines are partners (which AA and Qantas are, or United and Air New Zealand, Delta and Virgin Australia) then usually your bags can be checked through, provided you bring all the documentation to the airport so the agents can see the connection details.

[Alaskanb]

Re one-ticket: We found it much more expensive from ELP to do one-ticket to Auckland and back from Sydney. It meant overnights near LAX to get good timing without the worry of missed connections. We used AA from ELP-LAX (using points), Air New Zealand LAX - AKL, Sydney-LAX, and then Southwest LAX-ELP. Because we were in PE on the return from Sydney and on Southwest we had extra baggage allowance to hold all the goodies we came back with. We earned enough points on ANZ to cover flights to see our son in Denver. It's important to look at the whole picture.

[Hawaiidan]

Actually, no i didn't know that. After i retired and stopped travelling so much, I lost track of which airline partnered with which.

 

I may have to reconsider LAX, based on Gardyloo's information. But I would like to try Qantas, I have read a lot of good things about them.

 

thx

ML

Here is an end run...and its on Star Aliance but Asians and Thai

 

It gows SFO to Tokyo in Asiana A380 business for 70K mi Then nARITA TO bkk, AND CONTINUE bKK TO bRISBANE..30K.. ITS CHEAPER IN MILES AND MONEY. ual IS RUNNING LOTS OF 70 k BUSINESS CLASS 787 SEATS NON STOP FROM lax OR sfo.... WAY THE BEST PLANE FOR LONG HAUL LIE FLAT SEATS, 6000 FT CABIN PRESS, NOT 8 AND 18% HUMIDITY NOT 7%

 

lAX AND sfo ARE THE GOLDEN GATEWAYS...... HOUSTON IS TERRIBLE MAKES LAX look like perfection customs in IAH horribl The ANZ are code shares for the most part.

[Hawaiidan]

Actually, no i didn't know that. After i retired and stopped travelling so much, I lost track of which airline partnered with which.

 

I may have to reconsider LAX, based on Gardyloo's information. But I would like to try Qantas, I have read a lot of good things about them.

 

thx

ML

 

Whats good is they are in australia, charge obscene rates, lousy service and a monoply to the poor Aussies... who pay through the nose for everything.

[jmckay331]

We are using air New Zealand from LAX. Ended up cheaper overall than quantas which was my initial first choice. But I got business class at half what it cost on quantas so no issue with now flying through auk on the way to Sydney

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[NoWhiners]

Gardyloo--Thanks for the detailed explanation. The pricing I looked at yesterday showed 1 ticket with a coach seat going to either LAX or DFW, then PE from whichever airport to Sydney. On AA, the cost was the same.

 

My new question is--if we miss a one ticket price and get rescheduled on the next flight, do we get the same class of seat (coach coming back to ABQ or PE to or from Sydney)?

 

Our friends were also looking at flights and AA told them it would be cheaper to buy departure tickets now and the return tickets when that window opens next month. I haven't checked this yet but I will. I am wondering about this advice from AA. If I were AA, I would be telling people to buy their tickets NOW too :D

 

jmckay--I haven't seen any ANZ flights yet but I will definitely check this out. thanks.

 

ML

[Gardyloo]

My new question is--if we miss a one ticket price and get rescheduled on the next flight, do we get the same class of seat (coach coming back to ABQ or PE to or from Sydney)?

Should do. Pricing is very complicated; there are numerous fares that apply to each type of seat (economy, PE, business) on any given flight. There might be very minor differences in the particular rules that apply for the fare (advance booking, how long the fare is good, things like that) that won't matter to most travelers, but the airlines create these so-called "fare buckets" so that they can maximize the income from each seat. So when you see a fare go up, it seldom means the class of service (econ, PE etc.) is changing, just that they're using a different "fare bucket" in that case.

 

Our friends were also looking at flights and AA told them it would be cheaper to buy departure tickets now and the return tickets when that window opens next month. I haven't checked this yet but I will. I am wondering about this advice from AA. If I were AA, I would be telling people to buy their tickets NOW too :D

That advice only works if your friends are using miles for their tickets. If they're paying cash, it's nonsense.

[NoWhiners]

Gardyloo--thanks for the new posts. Our friends are using points (and they also have to pay a few hundred dollars) so maybe this all makes sense for them. Not for us, we are just paying for our tickets.

 

Another question: If flights are shown as ABQ to LAX then LAX to SYD (for example), with layover times specified, doesn't that mean that those combinations meet the MCT? I thought I read that somewhere. But I was also told that while the flight may technically meet the MTC, in some airports you need to plan for more time. When we were flying back from Athens with a layover in Paris a few years ago, most people advised us to allow more time between flights due to the distance we needed to go, Customs, and general confusion at the airport (I can't remember which airport, maybe DeGaulle? We did change from about 80 minutes to 4 hours, which was safe but a little boring!). From your previous posts it sounded like the times for LAX and DFW are probably OK.

 

I am going to see what one-way ticket prices look like and compare to a RT, just out of curiosity.

 

One last question, which may be outside your experience: we are thinking if we know which airline we are going to fly, it might make sense to sign up for their credit card. Not sure if that gives us any advantage since we will be booking PE seats and this seems to give us what we need (free checked bags, priority boarding). We will definitely join their FF club, since we will get a lot of miles :)

 

Thank you for your advice and guidance. I will come back and post what we do (and if I think of more questions!).

 

 

Thanks everyone. We won't be able to book the RT flights for another few weeks, so if you think of anything else we should know or what worked for you, please let me know.

 

ML

Edited April 14, 2016 by NoWhiners

[Gardyloo]

Another question: If flights are shown as ABQ to LAX then LAX to SYD (for example), with layover times specified, doesn't that mean that those combinations meet the MCT?

 

That's right; they won't sell you a ticket that doesn't meet MCTs.

 

One last question, which may be outside your experience: we are thinking if we know which airline we are going to fly, it might make sense to sign up for their credit card. Not sure if that gives us any advantage since we will be booking PE seats and this seems to give us what we need (free checked bags, priority boarding). We will definitely join their FF club, since we will get a lot of miles :)

 

Good plan. You'd want to join AA's program as its earning and redemption levels are better than Qantas'. (AA has ties with Citibank on the credit card front; usually you can earn at least 25,000 miles, often more, by signing up.)

 

Flying premium economy on Qantas and regular coach on American, you'd earn around 17,830 "spendable" miles if flying via LAX and around 20,010 by flying via DFW. (You get a 10% bonus for flying in PE.)

 

However, AA's elite tiers are based on what are called "elite qualifying miles" (EQM) and flying PE on Qantas earns you 1.5 EQMs per "butt in seat" mile. Thus flying via LAX would earn you around 24,000 EQMs while via DFW you'd earn almost 27,000. At 25,000 you qualify for AA's "Gold" elite status, which gets you a free checked bag, a 25% bonus on "spendable" miles, space-available upgrades on domestic flights, discounted cost of extra-legroom seats, etc. So combined with some credit card sign-up miles you could easily get a free round trip right off the bat, plus some airport perks. Look here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/eliteStatus/main.jsp

[NoWhiners]

That's right; they won't sell you a ticket that doesn't meet MCTs.

 

 

 

Good plan. You'd want to join AA's program as its earning and redemption levels are better than Qantas'. (AA has ties with Citibank on the credit card front; usually you can earn at least 25,000 miles, often more, by signing up.)

 

Flying premium economy on Qantas and regular coach on American, you'd earn around 17,830 "spendable" miles if flying via LAX and around 20,010 by flying via DFW. (You get a 10% bonus for flying in PE.)

 

However, AA's elite tiers are based on what are called "elite qualifying miles" (EQM) and flying PE on Qantas earns you 1.5 EQMs per "butt in seat" mile. Thus flying via LAX would earn you around 24,000 EQMs while via DFW you'd earn almost 27,000. At 25,000 you qualify for AA's "Gold" elite status, which gets you a free checked bag, a 25% bonus on "spendable" miles, space-available upgrades on domestic flights, discounted cost of extra-legroom seats, etc. So combined with some credit card sign-up miles you could easily get a free round trip right off the bat, plus some airport perks. Look here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/eliteStatus/main.jsp

 

Wow, Gardyloo, you have been great, thank you yet again for this info. DH has been saying he will get a credit card if it will help, and I think it could.

 

I am going to see what we can do and feel well-prepared now with your help and all the others.

 

Thank you all!

ML

[Alaskanb]

Air NZ gives you United miles if you are a member of the United ff club

[CruiserBruce]

Air NZ gives you United miles if you are a member of the United ff club

 

Which means Air NZ is part of Star Alliance, which OP mentioned planning on avoiding several time...

[NoWhiners]

Alaskanb--thank you for this note. I may have a United FF#, have to check

 

CruiserBruce--well, yeah, I said that last week before I knew anything :o But I may have to make this concession too as we progress on planning. Although our friends are using AA due to having miles which they can use to upgrade. And those flights are looking pretty good.

 

 

Thank you both

ML

[Mr. Click]

Air New Zealand now has a IAH to AKL non-stop if going that way works. If you are booking ANZ and premium economy be sure you are booking on their newer 777-300s. They have Space Seats so you get your own pod. On the 777-200s you just get bigger seats. Their service is beyond great.

[Globaliser]

Air New Zealand now has a IAH to AKL non-stop if going that way works.

Although:-

1. Air New Zealand is Star Alliance, which the OP would prefer to avoid.
2. The OP is going to SYD, not AKL.
3. ABQ-LAX-SYD is 8,165 miles; but ABQ-IAH-AKL-SYD is 9,503 miles - 1,338 miles further or about 3 hours more flying, plus the 2-3 hours taken by the extra stop.

[NoWhiners]

Just saw that there were more responses, thanks. I am going to look now and see if the window for booking RT has opened, should be pretty close.

 

ML

[kenish]

Most of us SoCal residents dislike or even detest LAX. Even so, LAX holds a strong advantage over DFW for your situation. There is one and only one nonstop to Oz from DFW, and it doesn't operate daily. Ditto for IAH to NZ. QF8 DFW-SYD has an excellent track record, but if anything goes amok with your travels the "recovery" options are limited. Ironically it will probably involve rerouting you to LAX for a flight the next evening.

 

If you connect through LAX in the first place, there are many flights and a lot of capacity to Oz. If something goes amok you're exactly where you need to be, and not 3 flight hours away at DFW/IAH. QF has 1-2 flights every evening, each to SYD, MEL, and BNE and AA has a new flight (not a codeshare) to SYD. Even if you are routed to a different city in Oz, you're on the right continent...and since you arrive in the morning there are numerous domestic flights to get you back on track. Add DL, UA and DJ to the mix.

 

You complained about the construction at LAX. It's completed at T4 (American) and TBIT (international). TBIT is greatly improved, though IMHO it still falls short of many Asian airports. Sort of like one of our high-end LA shopping malls with aircraft parked outside :) And the T4-TBIT tunnel makes it unnecessary to go outside security.

Edited April 26, 2016 by kenish

[NoWhiners]

Most of us SoCal residents dislike or even detest LAX. Even so, LAX holds a strong advantage over DFW for your situation. There is one and only one nonstop to Oz from DFW, and it doesn't operate daily. Ditto for IAH to NZ. QF8 DFW-SYD has an excellent track record, but if anything goes amok with your travels the "recovery" options are limited. Ironically it will probably involve rerouting you to LAX for a flight the next evening.

 

If you connect through LAX in the first place, there are many flights and a lot of capacity to Oz. If something goes amok you're exactly where you need to be, and not 3 flight hours away at DFW/IAH. QF has 1-2 flights every evening, each to SYD, MEL, and BNE and AA has a new flight (not a codeshare) to SYD. Even if you are routed to a different city in Oz, you're on the right continent...and since you arrive in the morning there are numerous domestic flights to get you back on track. Add DL, UA and DJ to the mix.

 

You complained about the construction at LAX. It's completed at T4 (American) and TBIT (international). TBIT is greatly improved, though IMHO it still falls short of many Asian airports. Sort of like one of our high-end LA shopping malls with aircraft parked outside :) And the T4-TBIT tunnel makes it unnecessary to go outside security.

 

Hi kenish

 

Thanks for this information. We are still too early to book the RT flight (flight home will be April 14 or 15, 2017) and I am still not sure what we will do. But this does add some context. It seemed like the Qantas flights out of DFW were on nicer planes but now I can't remember, and AA is making some changes to their PE offering too, as noted above. At least we don't have to go outside security to get to the international terminal.

 

It will probably come down to cost and aircraft when we can finally book.

 

Thanks

ML