Automatic Gratuities

[porky]

Or if you can't afford to travel when you have a big family, don't travel. I would have loved to have a couple more kids than I had, but I didn't because I knew that I wouldn't be able to live the same lifestyle if I did. Why do people always expect others to feel sorry for them because they can't afford to do things with their 2 or 3 kids...maybe you should leave the kids at home, so you can afford the trip, including all the expenses that go with it, so the rest of us don't have to supplement your inability to cover the costs of your family.

 

That is very arrogant, I feel sorry for YOU!

[GUT2407]

That is very arrogant, I feel sorry for YOU!

 

But typical of what you read on tipping threads all the time.

[ColoradoGurl]

That is very arrogant, I feel sorry for YOU!

 

 

Lol, ok. Maybe you just don't like having it pointed out that the real problem here is that people are trying to nickel and dime their way to being able to pay for a vacation that they really can't afford. Sorry if that hit a nerve, but if you're starting to feel your wallet pinched because of $100 or $500, then maybe you should just stay home, save for another year, and then go on your cruise when you can afford all the expenses that go with it, instead of trying to make all the people on the ship serve you for free because you can't afford to pay for your trip.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

Lol, ok. Maybe you just don't like having it pointed out that the real problem here is that people are trying to nickel and dime their way to being able to pay for a vacation that they really can't afford. Sorry if that hit a nerve, but if you're starting to feel your wallet pinched because of $100 or $500, then maybe you should just stay home, save for another year, and then go on your cruise when you can afford all the expenses that go with it, instead of trying to make all the people on the ship serve you for free because you can't afford to pay for your trip.

 

 

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Has anyone said they can't afford it? I haven't read that, but may have missed it. can you direct me to the post?

[Donna_In_India]

Lol, ok. Maybe you just don't like having it pointed out that the real problem here is that people are trying to nickel and dime their way to being able to pay for a vacation that they really can't afford. Sorry if that hit a nerve, but if you're starting to feel your wallet pinched because of $100 or $500, then maybe you should just stay home, save for another year, and then go on your cruise when you can afford all the expenses that go with it, instead of trying to make all the people on the ship serve you for free because you can't afford to pay for your trip.

 

 

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I don't think anyone has said that they can't afford to tip or aren't going to tip. You - and others - jumped to that conclusion. Just because someone doesn't agree with you about HOW to tip doesn't mean their way is wrong.

[katjoeus]

Because a tip is a tip for excellent service. Automatic gratuities for unknown service before that service should be called a service charge. That's really what it is.

 

Donna, you completely nailed it in my opinion!!!

[katjoeus]

Lol, ok. Maybe you just don't like having it pointed out that the real problem here is that people are trying to nickel and dime their way to being able to pay for a vacation that they really can't afford. Sorry if that hit a nerve, but if you're starting to feel your wallet pinched because of $100 or $500, then maybe you should just stay home, save for another year, and then go on your cruise when you can afford all the expenses that go with it, instead of trying to make all the people on the ship serve you for free because you can't afford to pay for your trip.

 

 

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But they are not serving us for free, are they? They get a salary and maybe that should be higher - seems to me the cruise lines do a fair bit of exploitation and rely on their passengers to supplement their workers' income. I think that is wrong. Cruise lines should pay their staff a decent living wage and passengers should be able to tip according to their own preferences. If that makes rates go up, then so be it - everyone has the choice of whether to book a holiday or not.

[impatientlywaiting]

Thanks all, even those who chose to get a little pissy. And actually, yes, we are old school and we do tip in cash, and for what it's worth, very well. Just never liked the idea of tipping before service. And we also go on the many comments we've had over the years from crewmembers who told us they prefer cash. So no, we aren't monsters out to rip off the crew.

 

How do you then tip the staff behind the scenes that wash and fold your towels and sheets, and the dining staff that do all the food prep that you don't see?

[katjoeus]

Again, the point is, why do they need to be tipped? Why can't they get paid a decent wage? I work as a vet tech, don't get paid a lot and certainly don't get tips....

 

Plus, one could still give an amount of one's choice at the end of the cruise and have it be divided up amongst staff. Without the cruise lines determining how much this should be AND charging it automatically!! If this is acceptable, what stops restaurants doing the same thing and automatically adding a percentage???

[packercruising]

Who remembers the days before prepaid gratuities? We had to bring cash to tip at the end of the cruise, collect all the envelopes and separate the money into them, using the guidelines provided, and get them to the proper person. How it got dispensed after that is anybody's guess. Even if you liked doing it that way, it is pretty hard to do with MTD.

[ColoradoGurl]

Again, the point is, why do they need to be tipped? Why can't they get paid a decent wage? I work as a vet tech, don't get paid a lot and certainly don't get tips....

 

 

 

Plus, one could still give an amount of one's choice at the end of the cruise and have it be divided up amongst staff. Without the cruise lines determining how much this should be AND charging it automatically!! If this is acceptable, what stops restaurants doing the same thing and automatically adding a percentage???

 

 

There actually are some restaurants that are attempting to do this. They call themselves "no tipping" restaurants, but in reality they are adding a service charge to everyone's bill. It may be that industries are finding their customers don't like the tipping method, and have started to tip less or not at all, which then makes it hard to keep their employees. Perhaps it will happen someday that tipping goes by the wayside and the costs of wages (and all the employment taxes that go with it) will be added into the costs of the food/cruise/whatever. Right now though, it's not happening, so the cost of the "automatic" gratuities for the cruise should just be included in the cost of the trip, because as human beings, we know that removing them means someone is not getting paid, or is getting paid less.

 

And LMaxwell, no I don't have a thread where someone said "I can't afford the tips," but anyone who is complaining about $13/day, or $500/week and looking for an option to remove that expense so they can afford the trip, is the same, to me, as someone saying "I can't afford this." If a specific dollar amount is stressing you out, or making you upset and looking for ways to remove the expense, then you're likely hitting the end of your budget. For me, if an extra couple hundred dollars took me over my allotted vacation budget, I would just pull that money from my regular checking account where I keep additional spending money, and I would cover the cost, or I just wouldn't take the trip, because it's outside of my budget. I wouldn't go trying to stiff other people by not paying them, especially when the expense is given to me as part of my costs ahead of time and I know I'm going to incur them. It's not a surprise that they give you once you're onboard the ship; they tell you when you book that it's part of the cost. If you think it's too much, don't take the trip.

 

 

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Edited August 21, 2016 by ColoradoGurl

[impatientlywaiting]

My husband and I are also old school and prefer to hand out cash on the last day/evening of our cruise. We generally do remove some of the prepaid grats because quite frankly, the amount you pay doesn't all go to the people you think it goes to, and that is just fact. The cruise line itself does get a good portion of all the gratuities, whether you believe it or not. People like our room steward, and our wait staff are the ones we handsomely tip WITH CASH so that it goes directly to who is deserving of it.

 

Many people just assume that when you remove the gratuities that you are stiffing the people who earn and deserve it. I am sure there are a small percentage that do that, but for the most part I think that those who have cruised for many years actually give much more than would go to them through the auto gratuity system.

 

Quite frankly, you are wrong. We have a friend who works for Royal for more than the 16 years we've known him (he started at entry level and is now a top manager). When all this removing of tips came up I asked him exactly what the situation was. When you remove your tips, you are taking away $ from the staff behind the scenes.

 

You say you tip the people in cash who deserve it. The staff who wash your towels and sheets don't deserve it? The staff who do the prep work for what you eat don't deserve it? Really?

[LMaxwell]

How do you then tip the staff behind the scenes that wash and fold your towels and sheets, and the dining staff that do all the food prep that you don't see?

 

The same way in the rest of the world. They are paid decent wages and / or supplemented by being tipped out by front of house guest facing service staff.

Edited August 21, 2016 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

And LMaxwell, no I don't have a thread where someone said "I can't afford the tips," but anyone who is complaining about $13/day, or $500/week and looking for an option to remove that expense so they can afford the trip, is the same, to me, as someone saying "I can't afford this."

 

So no one said they can't afford it. You just think they can't? I'm confused here. :confused: If the cruise line wanted to make it non-optional they could do so.

[LMaxwell]

 

You say you tip the people in cash who deserve it. The staff who wash your towels and sheets don't deserve it? The staff who do the prep work for what you eat don't deserve it? Really?

 

Behind the scenes people made to be reliant on discretionary service charges, when they provide no guest facing services, is insulting to these hard workers. Let the company pay them a fair wage for their work. They deserve to be treated fairly by their employer, don't they? Why are cooks and launders working for tips when they never see a guest? I don't even believe you that cooks work for tips. I'm open minded that if there is proof of that I'd change my thought, but as of now it pegs the BS meter, maybe even bends the needle.

[MonkeyPants2]

Even if you liked doing it that way, it is pretty hard to do with MTD.

 

That I will definitely agree with. And I suppose the automatically added tips makes sense from that stand point. With the traditional dining you had the same waitstaff every night, they got to know you and you got to know them. I always did anyway. I was always curious about them and most of them were more than happy to share their stories. Of course getting to know and like them usually meant a much bigger tip at the end of the trip, but with my time dining or anytime dining (whatever the cruises call it) I guess that won't be doing that this time around. First time I'll be doing the MTD thing. Personally I always like having a set time for dinner, but that's not how the majority of people in my group wanted to do things this time.

[Miryam1234]

Frankly I have no clue why I should care about the person who washes my towels since I have no clue if he is doing good or bad job. Tip is a tip for good service and I would like to see the service before I tip.

 

I do auto-tip and that's it. Nothing more since it has been pre-decided by the cruise line to be like that. Why cannot that 100usd per week be straightforwardly added to the cost like taxes and port fees, is beyond my comprehension. It would make everybody's life so much easier. That's how it is done in most European counties and we can live (and cruise) with this system. Our servers and waiters live with their wages and we still can afford to eat in restaurants and get served.

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

That I will definitely agree with. And I suppose the automatically added tips makes sense from that stand point. With the traditional dining you had the same waitstaff every night, they got to know you and you got to know them. I always did anyway. I was always curious about them and most of them were more than happy to share their stories. Of course getting to know and like them usually meant a much bigger tip at the end of the trip, but with my time dining or anytime dining (whatever the cruises call it) I guess that won't be doing that this time around. First time I'll be doing the MTD thing. Personally I always like having a set time for dinner, but that's not how the majority of people in my group wanted to do things this time.

 

If you like your staff you can ask to be sat at the same section or table each night, even with MTD.

[vol1967]

How do you then tip the staff behind the scenes that wash and fold your towels and sheets, and the dining staff that do all the food prep that you don't see?

 

How do you tip these people at a restaurant? Do you tip the cook or do you tip the person who helped the cook, also do you tip the bus boy? No you tip the server. What's the difference?

[gliles]

Quite frankly, you are wrong. We have a friend who works for Royal for more than the 16 years we've known him (he started at entry level and is now a top manager). When all this removing of tips came up I asked him exactly what the situation was. When you remove your tips, you are taking away $ from the staff behind the scenes.

 

You say you tip the people in cash who deserve it. The staff who wash your towels and sheets don't deserve it? The staff who do the prep work for what you eat don't deserve it? Really?

 

I get what you are saying but when I go to a restaurant, I tip the waitperson not the dishwasher, when I go to a hotel, I tip the maid not the person washing the linens, when I take a taxi, I tip the driver not the person who changes the oil. When did tips become part of the pay for everyone on the ship? Where does it stop, should the Captain get a cut? That said I never have and never will remove the tips because that's the way cruises do it and I choose to cruise...I do find it a little odd though.

[postmeome]

I don't understand what you are so angry about....but I do need to ask you this-if you find $500 and some change to be an exorbitant amount for employees serving you food and cleaning your cabin daily for 14 days, then how much are you actually tipping in cash? Since you claim that you tip "fairly", what do you honestly consider "fair"?

 

In my head, it's one less thing to even think about while on vacation. The auto tips allow me to know that I've covered the services provided, and we then tip extra to people that made it even more special. We had a great main server and drink server on the Allure for the last 5 nights of MTD, so we tipped them an extra $20 each and my family tipped extra as well (I don't know how much) But they were the best I've ever had. The server would have cheese and fruit and the drink server would have our drinks ready to go all at our table before we even sat down. To me that, was above and beyond the required service. Now is that $20 enough or will it even really make a difference to them? I have no idea....it's what I felt was "fair" for the service we were given. So I guess I'm just trying to understand what you feel is fair for just regular service.

 

Why do you think I'm angry ?

It was $507,never said exorbitant,I said it wasn't measly.

I never said I tip fair,I said I tip well.

How and how much I tip is nothing to do with you or anyone else,it's between me and the person i am tipping.

If you want to tell the world what a smashing fella you are for giving a waiter $20 for drinks and cheese and fruit,well good on you

[postmeome]

Absolutely! People spend a couple thousand dollars for a cruise and want to go cheap the the gratuities? The server in the MDR for supper may also be serving in the Windjammer for breakfast. The duties of the crew are varied. All any passenger has to do on a ship is look around to see how much indirect service is being provided. Cruise prices would go up a whole lot more than the cost of gratuities if they removed them.

 

Who's going cheap ?

Get yourself off that bandwagon....

[postmeome]

There actually are some restaurants that are attempting to do this. They call themselves "no tipping" restaurants, but in reality they are adding a service charge to everyone's bill. It may be that industries are finding their customers don't like the tipping method, and have started to tip less or not at all, which then makes it hard to keep their employees. Perhaps it will happen someday that tipping goes by the wayside and the costs of wages (and all the employment taxes that go with it) will be added into the costs of the food/cruise/whatever. Right now though, it's not happening, so the cost of the "automatic" gratuities for the cruise should just be included in the cost of the trip, because as human beings, we know that removing them means someone is not getting paid, or is getting paid less.

 

And LMaxwell, no I don't have a thread where someone said "I can't afford the tips," but anyone who is complaining about $13/day, or $500/week and looking for an option to remove that expense so they can afford the trip, is the same, to me, as someone saying "I can't afford this." If a specific dollar amount is stressing you out, or making you upset and looking for ways to remove the expense, then you're likely hitting the end of your budget. For me, if an extra couple hundred dollars took me over my allotted vacation budget, I would just pull that money from my regular checking account where I keep additional spending money, and I would cover the cost, or I just wouldn't take the trip, because it's outside of my budget. I wouldn't go trying to stiff other people by not paying them, especially when the expense is given to me as part of my costs ahead of time and I know I'm going to incur them. It's not a surprise that they give you once you're onboard the ship; they tell you when you book that it's part of the cost. If you think it's too much, don't take the trip.

 

 

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Never complaind about $507 ,just said it wasn't measly,if you think it is measly that's your opinion.Never said I couldn't afford my cruise.

And good on you for having a checking account,you must be made up...

[katjoeus]

I think most of us actually kind of agree, we're just phrasing it differently :)

 

For me, it's more of a principle thing rather than trying to save that money or not being willing to tip. I have an issue with expected/enforced tips in general, like when you're getting a massage, which is already expensive, and then on top of that, you are EXPECTED to tip a HUGE amount - a lot of them actually put tipping charts in their rooms, which I find, frankly, really cheeky!

It brings me back to my point: why should the clients be made to feel responsible for assuring that the staff make a living wage? This should be the employer's responsibility, and if it means increasing the rates, then that's what they should do. But it is what it is and I am too cowardly to go to the service desk and ask them to remove them from my account, even though that's exactly what everyone should do to let the cruise lines know that we are NOT ok with this practice!!!

 

I also think automatically adding 18% to everything on board is rather steep, but I can kind of see why they are doing this since there are no direct payments and therefore no option to tip...

[Lionesss]

We booked our next cruise 2 weeks ago while on the Allure and we forgot to put the gratuities on, now it will be something for the TA to do.

 

I wish they would just put them on.

 

Later