Silversea Water Cooler: Part 3, Welcome!

[Camillus112]

Also thanks to you Jeff, for being an intelligent and sensitive moderator, when needed. Host Dan and you are the best bar keepers ever!!

 

On another note, Penny, I now know I will be in beautiful Mexico in mid-May and I looked up the distance between Xalapa (our destination) and Guadalajara and...what a disappointment. I won't be able to join a Mariachi group and serenade you at your house. Anyway, looking forward for our next visit to Xalapa and its amazing people.

[Solo mi!]

Cam, if you are ever in or near Guadalajara, you must come out to Lakeside. I would love to show you my little part of the world. If we were really lucky, we could go to the Mariachi Festival and hear performers from all over the world. That takes place each Fall in Guadalajara. I'm sure you know already that Jalisco is the home of tequila and mariachi music.

[Camillus112]

Jalisco, no te rajes.... How not to know your area! Jorge Negrete was my mother's favorite singer and, like thousands, she cried her heart out when he died. As a young kid, she made me watch with her all his movies, the favorite being- of course - El Peñón de las Ánimas. We cried together when he took her with him down the cliff and I remember those episodes as the best mother-daughter bonding experiences. Lucky you to be in la Tierra del Mariachi y el Tequila.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks Cams, BUT there is only one mod here and that is Host Dan. :)

 

Lovely note today from IC Vienna saying that they are looking forward to our birthdays .......

[UKCruiseJeff]

Oh well ..... it is Tuesday 10th October in Spain, and the day on which the Catalonian Parliament may vote for independence and if they do it will trigger a series of consequences and events that will probably touch the lives of many millions of people for a long time.

 

Let us hope for calm and some sanity and measured well considered proportionate responses if they do.

[mysty]

Yes....thanks to CC and Host Dan for allowing the existence of the Cooler Bar!

 

And hopefully whatever result ensues with Catalonia, there will be peace!

 

As per Miss S's suggestion I present Myster's masterpiece for our Thanksgiving dinner. All reviews were RAVE!

 

 

 

And a 2014 Pinot Noir From British Columbia (Burrowing Owl).

 

[Camillus112]

Mysty, that was a real treat for Thanksgiving! Today was Roberto's birthday and we went to dine out...on fish, since both our stomachs were sort of hurting from too many spices on a rack of lamb the night before. Tomorrow we are dining out again with DD and family. Thank goodness for wine...we can skip most of the food...

[Solo mi!]

Yes....thanks to CC and Host Dan for allowing the existence of the Cooler Bar!

 

And hopefully whatever result ensues with Catalonia, there will be peace!

 

As per Miss S's suggestion I present Myster's masterpiece for our Thanksgiving dinner. All reviews were RAVE!

 

 

 

And a 2014 Pinot Noir From British Columbia (Burrowing Owl).

 

[/qSuote] Yum! My favorite Christmas dinner! I hope you had a wonderful day!

 

So hoping Madrid deals fairly with Catalonia and stops the thuggery!

[mysty]

Thanks Cam and Penny! It was delicious!

 

Cam....Happy Birthday to Roberto! Enjoy your dinner out tomorrow!

 

Penny.....echo your hopes for treatment of Catalonia!

[Solo mi!]

...and now hoping for the best for my home state...so sad to see wine country... and, guess what? There is no such thing as global warming...all fake news! Sorry to put a damper on this day! Penny

[mysty]

Not a damper Penny! This is a safe place to vent (mostly :)). It is difficult to feel powerless to affect any kind of change and that frustration needs to go somewhere. Here is as good a place as any!

[Camillus112]

We are here for you, Penny! And we all wish the best outcome in this awful moment.

[jpalbny]

Mysty, glad your Thanksgiving dinner was a success! Looks delicious.

 

My on-call weekend wasn't too bad but still not enough sleep. Back to work today...

[MissSophia]

Mysty.....the roast looks delicious, thanks for sharing.

 

Thinking of you Penny....hope all turns out well and as M said, the cooler is a good place to vent.

 

Around this time of year M&S do a turkey dinner ready meal with all the trimmings which is really good so today will be my first taste of the festive season!

This morning l have been writing Christmas cards in between doing my widow twanky chores....

 

Happy Day

😊

[UKCruiseJeff]

Happy Birthday Roberto and Penny hope nature doesn't treat your home state too harshly.

 

Lovely pics M ..... and Soapy .... I envy you the M&S meal. Their food is so good these days, they should replace all the knicker shelves with grub.:)

[UKCruiseJeff]

 

 

 

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[mysty]

Greetings Coolers! Thanks all for your kind words on Myster's culinary art. :) I realize it may look a little "charred" Ha Ha! Myster coats the roast with a paste of his creation prior to cooking. He likes some crunchy bits on the outside and prefers the medium cook sometimes edging into more well done than that. The meat was very tender and yummy though.

 

Penny...the news this morning seems a little brighter for your home state although Santa Rosa seems to have suffered considerable damage. The authorities seem surprised that so many fires started up at the same time. Do they suspect arson? Thoughts are with all who are suffering through this!

 

Miss S....I too am envious of your planned M&S meal! Enjoy it for all of us! :) J's comment about the shelves of knickers made me laugh because my mother used to buy hers at the M&S store that used to be in Windsor (Ontario not UK). She loved their wares!

 

JP...hope you manage to get some well-deserved rest. Your cruise leaves soon right? Hope you have a wonderful time!

 

Spins....3 more sleeps to go! Hope all is progressing smoothly!

 

Have a great day all!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Lunch was a veal escalopino (a word I made up because the world hasn't provided me with one I know of that fits better ....... ) with charlottes and fine green beans.

 

We had a second bottle of Bredon, given that I believe champagne to be a well proven homeopathic anti-depressant. (TTS .... I know we agree .... :) )

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[mysty]

J...that meals looks delicious! Your made up word is perfect. I think we need more creative word-making-up! It exercises the brain and the imagination! :)

 

And champagne always lifts my spirits! Definitely an anti-depressant!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks M, .......

 

Catalan has armed police waiting menacingly outside Parliament .... as Puigdemont - President of the Catalan government requests calm as he cited the contribution to Spain of the Catalan people since Franco, and the referendum in Scotland as an example of democracy responding to the wishes of the people. He called the response of the Spanish givernment as barbaric and aggressive. He told the Spanish people that they weren't mad and have always wished to talk and have nothing against Spain but the relationship between Spain and Catalan has not been working and cannot go on.

 

At 18:37 he declared is and will be an independent state but an immediate suspension in order to establish dialogue with Spain.

Edited October 10, 2017 by UKCruiseJeff

[jpalbny]

Whoa, this may get interesting. Remember that the traditional extent of Catalonia included a part of what is currently France. We read about that history in the Museum of Catalan History in Barcelona when we were there two years ago. Though the details are fuzzy, at one point during the height of Catalan power, I think Catalonia included a whole lot of what is currently Languedoc-Roussilon. That was given to France at some point, similar to how Euskal Herria is split between France and Spain.

 

Has anyone heard any rumblings from the French part of (the former) Catalonia? Would they want to join in? I got the sense from visiting the museum that the Catalans consider themselves more part of Occitainia than they consider themselves Castilian, so this pro-independence movement makes good sense, but I don't know enough to say that for sure. Certainly that seems true linguistically...

[UKCruiseJeff]

He was quite "nuanced" in his language and it could be taken either as a declaration of independence suspended or a suspended declaration. It was taken both ways by various translators.

 

It will make things complex for France because (from recall) France was the first to declare that it wouldn't recognise an independant Catalan state. This however rather plays against the EU hand in the longer run, because irrespective of how EU citizens feel about the Catalans' bid for independance, the fact that the EU failed to declare dissaproval of Madrid's violent response, will imho increase EU's citizen's solidarity with the Catalan people and there will be an inevitable increasing of dissatisfaction with the EU and increase the impression it wasn't and isn't for "the people" of Europe but instead for the central institution. Explicit or implicit `Spain has appeared to retract back to a real feeling of dictatorship and away from democracy. Older people are saying they have lost everything they fought for against Franco.

 

Against that set of compound complexity is also the view that arguably Spain didn't originally qualify to join the EU and possibly Spain has last week clearly acted in breach of it's memberships' obligations with respect to human rights. Catalan is a major economic contributor to Spain, and in generalised terms might be considered roughly the size of Finland,

 

In a way the EU is supporting a member state's rights to breach the sacred shared core values of the European Convention on Human Rights. This represents therefore an irreconcilable dilemna for EU leadership. Do they support insitionalised breaches of human rights or do they support the Catalan peoples' rights and it seems to me that they cannot do both. They will of course "fudge" and call both sides to be calm and talk. But sooner or later they have to get off the fence but will support Madrid and that will be a short term gain but a long-term nail in the EU coffin as citizens become more disenchanted.

Edited October 10, 2017 by UKCruiseJeff

[jpalbny]

Jeff - makes sense that France would object strongly to an independent Catalonia. They have much to lose, including the possibility of having a newly independent Catalonia lay claim Northern Catalonia, or at least foment a rebellion there. Plus, Catalan success might well encourage the Basques to do the same.

 

Taking the wider view, though, these kinds of border changes and coalitions / dissolutions of smaller countries into larger and smaller countries has been going on for ages in Continental Europe. We in the modern era think that things should always stay the same, but even a superficial look at the last few hundred years should tell you that borders aren't static. We can't realistically expect that they will stay the same, regardless of what the EU says.

 

Now, I agree with you that the EU is in an impossible situation. How can they simultaneously protect the interests of their member state Spain, and simultaneously support the Catalan people? While I agree that they should speak out against violence against the pro-independence movement, is the vote itself not illegal? I've read that it's against the Spanish constitution for a region to leave the union. I do think that they will be forced to support Madrid just because of the legality of the situation. Hopefully they will make a strong statement about not beating up the Catalans, and strong-arm Madrid into effectively dealing with the situation...and maybe it will be effective. But it's a fine line to walk and I'm not sure it can happen. Time will tell.

[UKCruiseJeff]

JP,

 

I feel all you say is correct but as a student of the effect of apparently disparate and seemingly unrelated convergent trends and their often unintended consequence I feel that in many of these debates we talk about the foreground politics but overlook the background canvas on which this is all painted.

 

It seems to me that for perhaps the first time in our lives we have a world that is governed by what many countries feel is inadequate and often dangerous self-seeking leadership. It is my sense that this pervades the US and most of Europe with the exclusion of Germany ..... and much of the rest of the world. It seems to me that having enjoyed the benefits of collectivism and social benefits and protection that government has provided for a couple of thousand years that many citizens are feeling both increasingly unsafe and unprotected and are also becoming disillusioned with the very basic concept of centralised and over interfering government and feel the need for unspecified change. The greatest evidence of that is the growth of the right ring across so many countries and very little evidence of socialism and collectivism increasing or any desire for more and greater government.

 

With that as background and with the desire of more centralised governments to assert control over it's and other citizens, it seems to me that when these two opposing trends converge ie centralism and the desire for de-centralism - it heralds greater civil unrest in an increasing number of countries. I think separatism is an inevitable component of these irreconcilable trends.

[Zombatar]

Jeff, I think you are very correct. With Scotland trying to break away from the UK, Wales have seen themselves under the occupation of a foreign army for over a thousand years and down here in Cornwall the Merbow Kernow (that's the Sons of Cornwall) would love to break away form England (if that's all right with the rest of you!!)

 

But seriously I think this United Kingdom is just inches away from being did-United just as Spain is.

 

Peter

 

PS Lets nom forget about the Basques who just might choose this moment to assert their point of view in Spain/France