Edge : confirms the many classes on Celebrity

[galensgrl]

I don't have any issue with paying more and getting more. My main issue is that the ships are getting too damn big and trying so be all things to all people. Some of them look like floating section 8 housing projects from the outside. If I book a lower category there will be certain venues that will be off limits to me. At the same time if I book a suite I will also be compelled to using the areas that I paid for. Either way I have limited myself. If I wanted a luxury experience I would just book on a luxury line where I would have access to the entire ship. They are usually smaller ships that can call on ports that these mega ships can't. What the cruise lines haven't figured out yet is that with these 3000- 6000 passenger ships all calling on the same ports only creates crowds that contribute to a negative vacation experience. If I have to tender off of one of these ships for a port of call I just won't book that itinerary which further limits my choice. If I wanted to spend time on an over crowed island I would just take a trip on the Long Island railroad to Manhattan. At least there I can see a real Broadway show and enjoy a meal of any ethnic cuisine. What I have enjoyed about cruising in the past is the service and special attention. That's just not going to happen on a mainstream cruise line any more.

 

I agree with you regarding the bigger ships. Yes, they are adding some exciting features and are very modern and new, but so far we have been on and enjoyed the older, smaller ships. Honestly I would be nervous on an inaugural sailing because everything is new and somewhat untried. I know they must test and retest everything before letting the first passengers on, but...stuff happens. I know, it is as or more likely for an older ship to break down. Also not thrilled to hear about the cabin class distinctions on the new ship. Even if we chose to book a Suite, the segregation by cabin class feels weird. I had a hard enough time wrapping my head around the fact that suite guests on the Summit are assigned to Luminae for dinner. So far I've been a die hard fan of the MDR for dinner, with a specialty restaurant experience or two thrown into the mix for the week. The separate dining room will be something new. So far our upcoming X cruise has had some pleasant surprises. I'm just hoping that our suite experience doesn't spoil us from booking a regular verandah cabin again. We book what we choose to afford from year to year, so maybe next year will be a standard Verandah cabin. DH insists on a balcony at the very least. His years in the Navy gave him a dislike for enclosed spaces.

[FlaFan]

Can you please work out the statistics of the average revenues from suits and non-suite and make a comparison with the footage?

Would love to see that.

 

ah, now that ask is right in my wheelhouse (not to be confused w/ PCL's version of RC's Schooner Bar), being a rev mgmt analyst where rev per sq foot and per guest is a common metric.

 

Based on those square footage and cabin count figures and using current 1/13/19 sailing lead in prices online for balconies and suites, suite guests drive twice as much revenue as non-suite guests. Suite guests are 12% of total paxs and 25% of revenue. On a sq ft basis, this high valued segment brings in $21 per sq foot compared to $16 for everyone else.

 

Now if Celebrity ran at 2 paxs per cabin, they'd already be out of business, but I get we have to start our models like that- what did we do before Excel? Anyways, here's my 2 cents on what the strategy includes: take away market share from the small suite only cruiselines and put them in these suite only areas; just do it as long as don't take away from flow and experience of the rest of us - personally, I go for the SV category when available like I did for this example 1/13/19 sailing - first time ever did a booking on 1st possible date. Nothing like coming home at sea to the sound and view of the wake trailing off in the distance.

 

Btw, in the cruising industry you need to be at 110%+ occupancy to turn a profit. Think all those pullman's in the non-suite cabins plus fold out coaches, etc. This is not the hotel/resort world where 90%+ occupancy is a success.

 

Has anyone gone to one of those websites listing all the big ships on the drawing board to launch in the next 1-5 years? Wow, I know there's got to be a lot of untapped market potential, but at some point, will have to start stealing pieces of the pie instead, especially if have to get into a price war if and when the next recession hits and first time cruisers are taken off the chess board.

[RDC1]

ah, now that ask is right in my wheelhouse (not to be confused w/ PCL's version of RC's Schooner Bar), being a rev mgmt analyst where rev per sq foot and per guest is a common metric.

 

Based on those square footage and cabin count figures and using current 1/13/19 sailing lead in prices online for balconies and suites, suite guests drive twice as much revenue as non-suite guests. Suite guests are 12% of total paxs and 25% of revenue. On a sq ft basis, this high valued segment brings in $21 per sq foot compared to $16 for everyone else.

 

Now if Celebrity ran at 2 paxs per cabin, they'd already be out of business, but I get we have to start our models like that- what did we do before Excel? Anyways, here's my 2 cents on what the strategy includes: take away market share from the small suite only cruiselines and put them in these suite only areas; just do it as long as don't take away from flow and experience of the rest of us - personally, I go for the SV category when available like I did for this example 1/13/19 sailing - first time ever did a booking on 1st possible date. Nothing like coming home at sea to the sound and view of the wake trailing off in the distance.

 

Btw, in the cruising industry you need to be at 110%+ occupancy to turn a profit. Think all those pullman's in the non-suite cabins plus fold out coaches, etc. This is not the hotel/resort world where 90%+ occupancy is a success.

 

Has anyone gone to one of those websites listing all the big ships on the drawing board to launch in the next 1-5 years? Wow, I know there's got to be a lot of untapped market potential, but at some point, will have to start stealing pieces of the pie instead, especially if have to get into a price war if and when the next recession hits and first time cruisers are taken off the chess board.

 

A minor point of disagreement. All of the major cruise line companies have shown profits, none of them have reached 110% according to their 10k or 10q filings. So yes, they do need to exceed the 2 person per cabin full occupancy rate, but it does not have to be 110% to reach a profit. More like 102% for break even. The highest for CCL for the last three years has been 105.9%, RCL 106.4% and NCLH at 109.1%. Yet all have been nicely profitable.

 

The key question is if what they are doing is, as you put it, "as long as don't take away from flow and experience of the rest of us." The problem is, that on ships that they have retrofitted, the moves have resulted in noticeable changes in the flow and experience for the rest of us (atleast I have noticed. I also spent 60 days on cruise ships last year, plus another 45 on river cruises and land trips). I suspect, however, that one of the thing that they are counting on is the amount of turn over in the cruise market, especially the untapped market of new cruisers that will not notice the impact.

[deliver42]

The difference with the Edge, and other new ships, they are not retrofitted, and totally separate from the rest of the ship. This thread is bordering on the ridiculous. If you are unhappy with the concept, pick another ship or cruise line, and stop complaining.

[dkjretired]

The difference with the Edge, and other new ships, they are not retrofitted, and totally separate from the rest of the ship. This thread is bordering on the ridiculous. If you are unhappy with the concept, pick another ship or cruise line, and stop complaining.

 

Yes, cruising is supposed to be fun, not brain surgery...

[Lastdance]

One thing that can't be taught is common sense.

 

Previously you were pointing out that Edge was smaller than an S class ship but now after Host Jazzbeau educated you I note that you've changed your wording. What you need to start understanding is that several posters, myself included understand your argument completely. It's very simple.

 

We just don't agree with it in regards to Edge. Your arguments apply to M and S class ships. But not a new design. If and it's an unrealistic if, you can obtain statistics from Celebrity showing square foot per non suite passenger in public areas open to all for both S and E class ships then you might have some foundation to your argument. Right now it's all just speculation on your part.

 

Anyway, I'm going to tell you a secret that a lot of the anti suite life brigade are yet to figure out. If you are patient, diligent and most important of all, flexible with your travel plans it is perfectly possible to snag a suite with all four perks included for less than other passengers will have paid for an AQ, CC or even some regular balconies. I know because we've done it twice now. The $ per day rate being less than many on here have said that they are happy to pay for verandah class state rooms. You won't do this with Edge for a very long time, but it can be achieved with M ad S class ships if you search hard enough. And I don't just mean TA and TP sailings I mean port intensive sailings. There are not many, but they are there and so suite class is accessible to most people sailing on Celebrity just look out for W category deals.

 

Yes, cruising is supposed to be fun, not brain surgery...

 

Ditto on that, as once aboard the vacation begins, but only if you allow it to happen!:cool:

[PTMary]

The difference with the Edge, and other new ships, they are not retrofitted, and totally separate from the rest of the ship. This thread is bordering on the ridiculous. If you are unhappy with the concept, pick another ship or cruise line, and stop complaining.

 

A post complaining about people complaining. The irony is stunning! ;p

[Host Jazzbeau]

A post complaining about people complaining. The irony is stunning! ;p

 

But since Celebrity ships don't have laundromats, I never do any irony on my cruises. ;p

[beentothere]

I couldn't have said it better. When we started cruising after a short hiatus we started in Sky Suites since they were most similar to Junior Suites on RCL ships. Then prices for Celebrity Suites were not much more on a daily cost basis and more perks were offered. The same then happened for Royal Suites and 1-2-3-GO was introduced offering more perks, making the additional expense "worth it". Reflection then introduced the Signature Suite and, at the same time, the Suite Life/Go Big, Go Better Go Best. We loved it - especially Michael's Club (which at the time was offered to all Suite guests except Sky Suites). We were disappointed when X expanded the MC perk to SS guests as we thought it would change the experience (not for the better) and added Luminae (same concern). We were disappointed because we felt the SS guests who paid significantly less than us were being offered the same amenities, but found instead that we were then offered complimentary everything (Unlimited Dining, Prem Bev. Package, Unlimited Internet). As Tee Rick says "you pay more, you get more". It's not surprising at all that X introduced The Retreat.

 

Those folks who book a more affordable category can't complain that those of us that are paying premiums are unfairly getting more than they are, or hope that "the upgrade fairy" will visit them and are disappointed when she doesn't. It's not classes, it's supply and demand - a free market enterprise.

 

OOps.. it starts with the name Suites....To me having done marketing research for more than 20 companies,

implies a Class distinction. I sailed first class on the Liner France. Very class distinction oriented. I do not believe therich and famous will sail celebrity. Just some who have more money to spend for the comfort and some "prestige".

[Host Jazzbeau]

OOps.. it starts with the name Suites....To me having done marketing research for more than 20 companies,

implies a Class distinction. I sailed first class on the Liner France. Very class distinction oriented. I do not believe therich and famous will sail celebrity. Just some who have more money to spend for the comfort and some "prestige".

 

Which cruise lines don't call their top cabins "suites"?

[chamima]

But since Celebrity ships don't have laundromats, I never do any irony on my cruises. ;p

 

 

:D *** :')

Wish there was an even bigger laughing face!

[BeeMinor]

If you're in an oceanview room, are you annoyed that people are in veranda rooms? Are you further annoyed that those people might not be using their balcony loungers, even when you can't find a place to sit and read on a crowded pool deck? No? But I'm sure there are fewer oceanview rooms to book since balconies have taken over in popularity.

 

I see suite-only areas as the same thing. If you're enjoying your meal in the MDR, why would you care that someone else is enjoying a meal in Luminae? Or if you're having a lovely time at the martini bar, who cares that someone else is drinking a cocktail in some other bar? I have zero interest in gambling but I don't care that ships have casino tables I will never play at, and I don't have kids but I don't care that teen clubs exist. All those facilities take space from the possibility of ones I would definitely use if they would fit, like libraries with an actually good book selection or restaurants that didn't finish everything in cream sauce. But I don't resent that cruise lines offer those spaces for people who do want them. No hospitality or entertainment facility that exists to sell to any large and diverse group of people is going to offer a consistent and unified experience for everyone.

[RDC1]

If you're in an oceanview room, are you annoyed that people are in veranda rooms? Are you further annoyed that those people might not be using their balcony loungers, even when you can't find a place to sit and read on a crowded pool deck? No? But I'm sure there are fewer oceanview rooms to book since balconies have taken over in popularity.

 

I see suite-only areas as the same thing. If you're enjoying your meal in the MDR, why would you care that someone else is enjoying a meal in Luminae? Or if you're having a lovely time at the martini bar, who cares that someone else is drinking a cocktail in some other bar? I have zero interest in gambling but I don't care that ships have casino tables I will never play at, and I don't have kids but I don't care that teen clubs exist. All those facilities take space from the possibility of ones I would definitely use if they would fit, like libraries with an actually good book selection or restaurants that didn't finish everything in cream sauce. But I don't resent that cruise lines offer those spaces for people who do want them. No hospitality or entertainment facility that exists to sell to any large and diverse group of people is going to offer a consistent and unified experience for everyone.

 

I do care that the MDR that I have enjoyed now have the tables more jammed together and are much noisier than prior to the implementation. It has nothing to do what others are getting. It has everything to do with how the changes have negatively impact what I get for my dollar. I do care that prior to the implementation Michael's Club was often used for string quartet presentations and that now it is not available for such. The rest of the venues are far more open and impacted by more noise and music from other sources than Michael's Club used to be. Though from my most recent cruise the classic type entertainments have pretty much vanished.

 

So again it really does not have anything to do with what others get for their dollar, it does have a lot to do with how my experience has been negatively impacted by the changes.

 

Prior to the changes I used to spend about 30 days per year on Celebrity, now I spend maybe 7 with 40+ days spent on other lines. The reason for the change is the less value for my money on Celebrity, largely as a result of changes.

 

Will be interesting to see how the Edge implementation impacts that experience, since it is not a retrofit.

[BeeMinor]

So again it really does not have anything to do with what others get for their dollar, it does have a lot to do with how my experience has been negatively impacted by the changes.

 

Prior to the changes I used to spend about 30 days per year on Celebrity, now I spend maybe 7 with 40+ days spent on other lines. The reason for the change is the less value for my money on Celebrity, largely as a result of changes.

 

Will be interesting to see how the Edge implementation impacts that experience, since it is not a retrofit.

 

I get that, and it sounds like you're doing the sensible thing--going for a different experience that better fits your preferences.

 

The anger over the Edge Retreat baffles me though. It's not like Celebrity is exercising eminent domain to evict anyone from the family farm so LeBron James can build a warehouse for his shoe collection. Celebrity still needs to sell staterooms to the 88% of people who aren't going to sail in suites.

[Ruebin77]

When we started cruising on Celebrity in 2003 ( Century) everybody was entitled to the same food, activities service etc . Now contrary to the other lines Celebrity has many classes : different dining rooms ( Luminae, Blu). I do not object to the specialty restaurant which comes for a price but are available to all.... I object to the private pool, terrace, bar on Edge for the upper classes.... I do not feel that way on any other cruise line. We have done 20 cruises with Celebrity and I think it is time to move on...Celebrity is moving to attract the rich and famous... even on the luxury ships an indoor cabin will grant you all the advantages and will not make you feel as an outcast.

 

 

I am tending to agree with you. We are up to almost Elite Plus, and class is becoming obvious. We used to go to " Michael's club".. but thats now for suite guest only...World bar...over the top prices. Edge looks more so.

Last year we did do Queen Elizabeth, and very much the same there, but then again you expect that. Hated the ship , dreadful atmosphere because of that.Still love Celebrity, just go off Solstice this week.

 

 

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[Cruises alot]

In total agreement. Will probably look for alternatives.

 

 

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[dkjretired]

Another thought , which I can t recall call being mentioned ( sorry if it was)...with suite guest utilizing their pool and retreat areas, fewer folks will be at the main pool and solarium and some of the bars...so more room for non suite guests

 

They also need to have a policy for traveling companions of those in suites who are not in suites. :ie.: kids, parents, friends

[DachshundsRule]

I get that, and it sounds like you're doing the sensible thing--going for a different experience that better fits your preferences.

 

The anger over the Edge Retreat baffles me though. It's not like Celebrity is exercising eminent domain to evict anyone from the family farm so LeBron James can build a warehouse for his shoe collection. Celebrity still needs to sell staterooms to the 88% of people who aren't going to sail in suites.

 

Funny!

[villauk]

They also need to have a policy for traveling companions of those in suites who are not in suites. :ie.: kids, parents, friends

 

I think they have, Don. I recall reading on one of the press releases about them having access to The Retreat if they are in connecting cabins to a suite or are kids of the suite occupants. Don't think it means any Tom, Dick or Harry that you may know though :D. I'll see if I can locate it ;).

[Lois R]

Quote:

"The anger over the Edge Retreat baffles me though"

 

I am trying to remember if there was this much consternation when The Solstice Class came into the fleet.....that was in 2008. I know I am getting older and maybe my memory is fading (Actually 59 today:eek:).....but I think everyone

was really psyched about Solstice.......seems Edge doesn't have that same reaction. Now, maybe it was because

Solstice was REALLY, REALLY different from the M class?.......But what is that saying people in the PR field say?

People chatting about the product either way is better than apathy? Or some such comment.......

[tugboat]

Appears to be the trend in the cruise lines, so not sure where you will go.

 

 

Try Windstar, the way cruising was 40 years ago

 

 

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[Cruise Junky]

Quote:

"The anger over the Edge Retreat baffles me though"

 

I am trying to remember if there was this much consternation when The Solstice Class came into the fleet.....that was in 2008. I know I am getting older and maybe my memory is fading (Actually 59 today:eek:).....but I think everyone

was really psyched about Solstice.......seems Edge doesn't have that same reaction. Now, maybe it was because

Solstice was REALLY, REALLY different from the M class?.......But what is that saying people in the PR field say?

People chatting about the product either way is better than apathy? Or some such comment.......

 

 

Happy Birthday 🎉

[Tamerella]

I think they have, Don. I recall reading on one of the press releases about them having access to The Retreat if they are in connecting cabins to a suite or are kids of the suite occupants. Don't think it means any Tom, Dick or Harry that you may know though :D. I'll see if I can locate it ;).

 

If you are friends/family with any "Tom, Dick or Harry" and they are staying in a connected room (and you are in a suite), everyone will have access. This was in a press release:

What’s more, for the first time ever, guests in a non-Suite stateroom that are connected with a Suite will also enjoy all the benefits from The Retreat’s luxurious amenities.

[villauk]

If you are friends/family with any "Tom, Dick or Harry" and they are staying in a connected room (and you are in a suite), everyone will have access. This was in a press release:

What’s more, for the first time ever, guests in a non-Suite stateroom that are connected with a Suite will also enjoy all the benefits from The Retreat’s luxurious amenities.

 

Thanks for finding it :halo:. As I stated, anyone in a connecting cabin to the suite has access.

 

When I referred to 'Tom, Dick or Harry', I meant anyone else you knew on the ship that wasn't in a connecting cabin :D :cool:.

[Tamerella]

Thanks for finding it :halo:. As I stated, anyone in a connecting cabin to the suite has access.

 

When I referred to 'Tom, Dick or Harry', I meant anyone else you knew on the ship that wasn't in a connecting cabin :D :cool:.

 

I knew what you meant. ;p

 

I am excited about the new feature. It will be nice to be in a suite and have our friends/family in the connecting cabin be able to enjoy the suite amenities with us.