Just returned from Libya-less 11-5-05 sailing

[PurpleCow]

Portolan, shrimp cocktail is on the room service menu, but it's not the same shrimp cocktail that's served in Polo. The room service shrimp cocktail is several tiny shrimp in some kind of sauce arranged on lettuce while the Polo shrimp cocktail is the traditional version with several large shrimp hanging on the edge of the dish/glass. A diner raising hell for shrimp cocktail would definitely not be satisfied with the room service version.

 

I can't contribute anything to the rest of this discussion as Libya is definitely not on my "must visit" list. I was even a little nervous about Turkey. Istanbul turned out to be wonderful, but there was a bombing in Kuzadasi the day we left.

[Trece]

Everyone is raising such great points!

 

Purplecow, I do agree with you about requesting something off the dining room menu. But I also agree with Portolan's comment about Oceania's ambition and representation to be a "cut above" other cruise lines, and since the passenger's request was not for an item that had to be specially prepared for him but for something that already existed in the kitchen, I didn't think it was too terrible. He was not rude or obnoxious or loud, in fact, the loudest voice on the subject came from the supervisor! The passenger was firm yes, but not over the top. What's different about requesting a different appetizer than requesting, say, a baked potato when the menu shows a differently prepared potato? I heard potatoes being changed all the time. Why is "company policy" against changes not enforced for potatoes but enforced for shrimp cocktail? Cost maybe? Cost definitely! On the other hand (devil's advocate time), is this Carnival or is this Oceania? As an aside, I hope this is not going to deteriorate into a discussion about shrimp cocktail. I only chose it as an example of why, in response to another post, I didn't choose to get into a verbal discussion with anyone on the ship about a free e-mail or a free phone call. I felt that if a passenger was going to be denied a shrimp cocktail, there was no way Oceania was going to honor my request for a phone call home to tell my parents our itinerary had been changed! It was just a simple example of what I perceived to be the prevailing attitude for an "outside the box" request. I apologize for having chosen it. ;)

 

Portolan, your comment about the Libya lecture echoed our thoughts exactly. Salt in wounds? Definitely yes! :D

 

ShirleyZ, I checked my credit card online and our refund for Libya (two private vans, one highlights tour) was processed on November 16 (notice it took Oceania over two full weeks from the time Libya was cancelled to process the refund). I would have preferred that they processed it onto our shipboard account but they chose not to. I hope yours is taken care of quickly.

 

Shirley, As to the rest of your post, you said it so well! And I like the Magical Mystery Cruise title!!! Oceania staff went out of their way to pretend nothing had happened and all was well. It was the weirdest thing! It was as if everyone had been issued a directive not to talk about it so it would go away! And your point about the non-Americans is something I should have raised myself. I never heard a negative word from the Australians & Canadians who had lost 1/4 of their itinerary due to "our" problems with Libya and they are really to be commended for being so nice. :)

[lcand1923]

We have only been on one cruise where a port was cancelled due to security issues. We were given a very small shipboard credit for our Port Charges. I think it was something like $18.75 per person.

 

From your posts, it sounds like you weren't even given a credit for port charges. Is that correct?

[Andee]

Other ports were substiuted for Libya, and we actually had one more port day than the original itinerary. So I wouldn't have expected a refund of port charges.

[Portolan]

Other ports were substiuted for Libya, and we actually had one more port day than the original itinerary. So I wouldn't have expected a refund of port charges.

 

Port charges vary port to port, so the fact of a similar or even one more port doesn't mean that you weren't due a refund. I read that Libya was quite an expensive port since they were milking the novelty (probably need to reduce the rates now!).

[Garmed]

We were on a Crystal cruise in August to the Baltics. Due to bad weather, we missed Helsinki. Crystal, in all of their 5 star glory, gave us.... free drinks from 12 -2PM. We don't happen to drink during the day, but I suppose we could have ordered something and saved it until the evening. Port charge refund was never mentioned.

[KatWag]

Trece,

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I really struggle with this issue with cruises. In the end, they can substitute whatever ports they like, for whatever reason necessary and we're out of luck. And yet, we, like you, often choose a cruise for a specific itinerary. If you've based your entire trip upon a very special itinerary it can be devastating when things change so dramatically.

 

Yes, I know you still have the ship, the services, etc. And I enjoy every moment on a ship. But my husband is a very port-intensive person. And he prefers to visit places we've never seen before. I could very easily have pictured us in the very same situation you experienced.

 

We're trying to figure out now what to do for our 25th Anniversary. I'm actually leaning against a cruise. As much as I love cruising, I can't count the number of times recently where I've read about people's special plans being ruined because of full ship charters, drastic itinerary changes, etc. I'm thinking about making it a personal "rule of thumb" that if the date or a particular location is critical to me, that I do a land trip rather than take a chance on a cruise. The other recurring theme as I read these threads is that maybe I need to learn to be satisfied with the ship's tour offerings. Like you, we prefer to book our own private guides. After reading about what a horror story you had trying to change the plans again and again, I'm going to have to rethink that one. Between the internet fees and cancellation fees, I can't imagine how much money you must be out.

 

Again, I'm so sorry you had such a terrible experience. Best wishes for a wonderful experience on your next trip.

 

Kathy

[smj]

I won't be doing this cruise. I had considered it but no more. I wonder how many of the passangers will cruise on Oceania again. It sounds like Oceania dropped the ball. I really think Oceania is a great crusie line they just need to act like it.

Steve

[Mahogany]

Reading about Trece's problems, I can certainly sympathize. We are on the Nov. 28 sailing on Nautica specifically for the Egypt stops, and yes, I have booked a private tour for Cairo. If this stop is cancelled, I will be very disappointed since I've been to most of the other ports on this cruise. But all these "threads" lead me to wonder: does Oceania know how unhappy so many people are, enough to cancel a booking because of their arrogance and inconsideration? Too bad all this valued information is seen only by potential and past passengers, and not by the Oceania management.

[Portolan]

Good point about the audience for this thread. I just emailed the link to Oceania and suggested they might want to read it. I also indicated that we were thinking of cancelling our 21 May 2006 cruise on Insignia which was chosen because of the Libya port calls. It'll be interesting to see what response, if any, is received. I'll post any reply.

[susiesan]

I won't be doing this cruise. I had considered it but no more. I wonder how many of the passangers will cruise on Oceania again. It sounds like Oceania dropped the ball. I really think Oceania is a great crusie line they just need to act like it.

Steve

 

For our first Oceania cruise, I had considered the Libya itinerary as something new and exciting, somewhere very few people had been. But I thought maybe I'll give it a year to shake out, work out the kinks. So I booked Insignia June 26, 2006 instead. I an sooo glad I did. I won't ever book a cruise on any line that includes a Libya stop. Kaddhafi is just too flaky and obviously doesn't care about tourism as a means to help his people make a living.

[emmalbrent]

I see you are on our cruise. We have to wait until final payment to cancel because need to transfer our travel insurance to another cruise so not to lose the payment. There is no other cruise we want to take or any land tour we want to take during 2006, so this presents a problem for us. If had another trip we could move insurance to would cancel sooner.

 

Any "Settlement" made probably will not be kept. We have been to all the other ports and not worth it for us to see them again. We are on he Nautica Nov 22 cruise Istanbul/Singapore. Just hope that there are no crises in Dubai, Istanbul, or where ever at that time. Who knows in a year from now. Looking forward to cruising with friends, sea days and the Suez Canal. Plus other ports have never seen. It is such a great itinerary for us.

[ClaudiaF]

Good point about the audience for this thread. I just emailed the link to Oceania and suggested they might want to read it. I also indicated that we were thinking of cancelling our 21 May 2006 cruise on Insignia which was chosen because of the Libya port calls. It'll be interesting to see what response, if any, is received. I'll post any reply.

 

 

Some folks there read these boards.. but I wouldn't expect a reply here.

Seems everytime someone from "O" either FDR or others posted they got "reamed" by someone..

so that is most likely why "he" hasn't been posting for ages.

[Portolan]

Some folks there read these boards.. but I wouldn't expect a reply here.

Seems everytime someone from "O" either FDR or others posted they got "reamed" by someone..

so that is most likely why "he" hasn't been posting for ages.

 

...but if they care about keeping customers, I DO expect a reply to the email I sent them.

[Fetchpeople]

I have been reading this thread with mpre than passing interest as we are booked on the 5/21/06 Insignia cruise. and for us, Libya was a major plus to the itinery. Without Libya, my wife will almost certainly opt to cancel.

 

Nevertheless, I am troubled by the tone of many emails suggesting that Oceania owes the 11/5 passengers big time. I suspect they may have a need to do more crew training in TLC of cranky cruisers, that they may need to provide multiple warnings/notices of timing and Port changes, and they may need to be more proactive in anticipating passenger requirements. But I am quite sure that O dreads any such sudden governmental whims as happened with Libya. To suggest that O is profiting from the change is not fair and not well thought out. Do you expect O to run around the decks and offer money and vouchers and the like?

 

Can you be sure that:

* the failure to warn you was not a failure on the part of your TA?

* the routing was not more sea miles and thus even more expensive fuel consumed?

* Port charges at the replacement port(s) were less not more?

* O did not lose considerable profit dollars from Libya tours not taken?

* O wants to risk cancellations by future cruisers to Libya by blowing off the 11/5'ers

* O did not offer free Internet access and/or telephone use to anyone who asked?

 

Let's be fair, reasonable and patient. Lets wait until the dust clears. And lets give O the benefit of any doubt until proved otherwise. Besides, thus far there are lengthy postings from one passenger, who is quick to say that she/they are unhappy, but that all the information is not available yet.

 

I choose to reserve judgement and to hope that the diplomatic front signals all clear.

[Trece]

Thanks to everyone who seems to understand that I did try to present a fair & balanced assessment of what happened on the 11-5-05 sailing. I spend a lot of time on my posts and often let them sit for several hours so I can be sure I'm saying what I want to say. I realize I also have not posted a Part III where I intend to kind of sum things up, also to stress that for us there is no way to have a BAD time on a cruise. Day to day our lives were very pleasant on board and we saw & did a lot of great things & met a lot of great people.

 

As to Fetchpeople's points - most of your questions pertain to things that we could not possibly know "for sure":

 

1. Oceania claims (in writing) that it e-mailed and faxed all TAs and all customers for whom they had an e-mail address. There were TAs on board (who were customers as well as professionals) and they received no notification as a professional or as a customer. I would venture to say that if O felt the need halfway thru the cruise to distribute a letter saying "we tried..." that they received a lot of complaints on the subject for failure to notify. Also, they never changed our itinerary on their website (to this day!) so even friends/family who were computer literate could not find out that way.

 

2. No way to know about fuel consumption issues, however, I believe without having my map in front of me that Benghazi was the furthest point & Tripoli the next furthest point so substituting ports in Spain & Morocco could not have resulted in more fuel. Also, we overnighted in Cadiz (not planned on itinerary versions #1, #2, or #3) and also a day at sea was eliminated, both which would presumably reduce fuel considerably. O is free to publish these figures for us but my best guess is that fuel consumption was the same or less than it would have been had we gone to Libya.

 

3. No way to know about port charges since cruise lines are notoriously less than forthcoming about what they really are in each individual port. However, the group visas for three days in Libya did not have to be purchased by O either. I would venture to guess O lost no money on these matters. O is also free to publish these figures for us.

 

4. Since ports were substituted for Libya, O got tour revenue from those sources. Also, O had the use of the funds for our pre-booked Libya tours for months and did not refund it (in my case) for over two weeks after Libya was cancelled as a port. I believe as of a few days ago others were still waiting.

 

5. Not really sure the point you are making here??

 

6. The internet on O is, I believe, a concession i.e. not run by O but by a private company (I don't know this for a fact). Out of everyone I talked to, no one indicated they had received a free phone call or e-mail message to notify home and there certainly was no written offer by O, but on the other hand they thought we all had notification in advance so why would they make the offer! I have admitted that I did not make a request but since O thought we all knew when we boarded it seems unlikely it would have been granted. No way to be sure, however. BTW, the fellow cruiser who footed the bill for the bulk of our internet charges relating to private excursion changes just got an e-mail from a friend of hers currently on Radisson Navigator. They are: 1 hour = $6 (one hour on O at its cheapest rate is I believe $42), 5 hours = $25, 10 hours = $40, and 20 = $75. Therefore unless my math is wrong, you can get 10 hours of internet on Navigator for the price of Oceania's one hour! Scary!

 

While my posts may have been longer than the others, if you read carefully there are comments by others on the same cruise corroborating most/many of the points I made. I agree with you it would be great if more information was forthcoming not only about our cruise but also about how O plans to handle future cruises including Libya. I'd be happy to know more about how & why things were handled as abysmally as they were, and I'd be happy to know that future cruisers could plan on being treated better.

 

There are still two issues here. One is the Libyan political situation and I would guess there is no way any future passenger is going to know for sure whether they will get to Libya or not. This is true of any port, of course, but it appears from our experience and things we learned that this risk is higher for Libya and is not going to change in the foreseeable future. The second issue is how Oceania handled us and any promises they make for future passengers. Hopefully others from 11-5 will post on how they handled us, and hopefully Oceania will make some written assurances for what they plan to do in the future. I never encouraged anyone to make any rash or hasty decisions, only to keep on top of the matter as their final payment date approaches, whenever it may be.

[Portolan]

Your summary echoes my thoughts on what Oceania can reasonably do to make itineraries with Libya an attractive and viable option after the fiasco of your cruise. Personally, I think they'd go a long way if they'd provide their contingency plan (after your cruise and the later one in November, they've GOT to be making backup plans for May and later). Knowing what the backup plan is would allow folks like us to decide whether we'd be happy enough with that alternative while still holding out the possibility of port calls in Libya. It would be particularly good if they could keep the balance of the itinerary intact so that excursions in other ports wouldn't be affected.

 

Otherwise, I think that future cruises that include Libya will not be attractive. One should be excited to be heading out for a cruise, not apprehensive!

 

Fetchpeople: while I understand your points, I believe they are almost certainly wrong for the reasons that Trece cited. In any case, Oceania should realize what a PR disaster it is that they don't seem to be taking this seriously. WRT compensation, why did they purportedly offer a free shore excursion to current (completed?) second cruise scheduled for Libya and rerouted to Egypt (and with, certainly, greater fuel costs to get there)? That cruise at least had prior warning and are going somewhere consistent with the North Africa theme rather than spending more time in Spain.

[Trece]

Portolan, you should be a carpenter because you keep hitting every nail on the head, and saying it better than I am to boot!! :D Thanks!

[sfbear]

Was Nancy Bancy on your cruise ??

[letice]

Trece, Just got registered after busy holiday away. I have read your comments and fully agree with you on all counts. I was on this cruise and have a few comments to add. The concept of the "small ship" experience was lost to me on this cruise. At any point during the cruise experience we would have gladly been transferred to a large ship housing up to 3000 passengers. Why? On all the cruises we have been on I have never experienced mediocre quality food served consistantly warm, not hot, in the most disorganized fashion prolonging a 6:30 dinner for 2-3 hours. The alternate dining was dismal, except for Toscana, where your bread was not doled out as if there was a food shortage. The doling out of food is consistant in all areas of dining and one wonders if Oceania is imposing a diet on its passengers or if they are financially distressed. I have never been on a ship where the flies were dining on the food before we were. It was disgusting, but did not seem to bother the servers. The best dining on the ship was room service. The art auction is promoted with sickening intensity, while no other activities are planned.

Dressings and condiments are not iced and my husband did get food poisoning on the third day of the cruise.

Many of the service staff are lovely people, but beyond them, and moving up the ranks, there is an arrogance and aloofness totally unjustified by the quality of cruise experience.

The entertainment was extremely mediocre and I suggest that they look to other cruiselines to enhance this disappointing aspect. Guest speaker was a tranquilizer and only one available for all the interesting ports we visited. The enrichment was definitely disappointing.

I consider my ship a destination, and for quality of enrichment, activities, and interest, this ship ranks a 0. :mad: I will not go into detail with stories of blatant rudeness, not just to me, but others that should not occur with passengers paying that kind of tariff. I will not go into detail about some of the shore excursions that were overpriced and under delivered. I will return to Radisson with great appreciation and am cancelling my June 26th on Oceania.....Letice

[Andee]

Letice, I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience and grateful that ours was very different.

 

The four of us travelling together thought the food was excellent, both delicious and beautifully presented, and we commented about that often. We liked the main dining room, Polo, Toscana, and the Waves Grill. We only ate at the buffet dinner once, and I was feeling so miserable with a sinus infection that nothing appealed to me, so I can't really judge.

 

We've been at a number of upscale restaurants where rolls are served individually, so it didn't surprise or distress us. Most of the time we were offered addidtional bread during the meal, and always had as much as we wanted.

 

We found the staff to be exceptionally friendly and pleasant, and quite helpful. Our friends asked the steward if they could have their ice bucket filled at a certain time every day, and it was done. When I commented to the maitre d' that the cookies/petit fours we requested (as the menu suggests) didn't come, his response was an immediate, "I'm very sorry; please allow me to have them delivered to your cabin." Those were typical experiences for us.

 

The people at reception and destination services were always nice and helpful as well. The entertainers made a point of visiting with us, and clearly remembered us from one time to the next. No one was ever anything close to rude to us.

 

We don't care for ship's shore excursions, so I have no comment about them.

 

I was also disappointed in the entertianment (although we liked the flamenco show); it was much better on the Insignia last year. But, we haven't been impressed with the entertainment on Princess, Celebrity or Orient, either. I made a negative remark on my mid-cruise comment card, and the cruise director called me to get more details. He listened to my opinions in a very respectful way.

 

For me, the ship is not a destination, but a floating B&B that gets me from one place to another and saves me the effort of having to find hotels or restaurants in every city--maybe the differences in our expections had an impact on our experiences.

 

I enjoyed the wine tasting, trivia (although I only went occasionally), Name That Tune, and even the art auctions. On a port intensive itinerary like this one, on sea days, I'm happy to sleep in, have a leisurely breakfast, go for a stroll, plan our next few days in port, attend an activity, take a nap, have some gelato, go for another stroll--you get the idea.

 

We're interested in trying Radisson--what do you consider their pluses and minuses?

[Jancruz]

Andee, I too am distressed that Letice had such a dismal trip..I have found in the past my trips and experiences correspond to yours..I just wonder if people go on Oceania with all the glowing reports on the board (tho I certainly agree) with more than realistic expectations..I am not saying they do..just wondering..Stu and I eat at many fine restaurants where the rolls are passed around the table and are not just left there and also at many restaurants that do not have special things we wish to order..

Oceania is definitely NOT known for its activities (there are not many) or its entertainment..I agree with you..for me the ship is not a destination in itself but a hotel on the water and I consider Oceania one of the 5 star lines..but the truth is different people look for different things in a cruise..I for one love Seabourn, Radisson and Windstar and have enjoyed every trip we have had on all of them..as you can see Stu and I tend toward the smaller ships, looking for the on land experience and peace and quiet on the ship..we are going to try a trans-atlantic next year..that should really be relaxing..hope I dont sleep for the whole 10 days..we have been on 55 cruises and there are very few I can point to I really didnt like..I could always find something on each one we liked..even Carnival..althought I will say NCL is a cruise line, I personally would never sail on again..

Just MHO,

Jan

*****

[Jancruz]

Andee, I too am distressed that Letice had such a dismal trip..I have found in the past my trips and experiences correspond to yours..I just wonder if people go on Oceania with all the glowing reports on the board (tho I certainly agree) with more than realistic expectations..I am not saying they do..just wondering..Stu and I eat at many fine restaurants where the rolls are passed around the table and are not just left there and also at many restaurants that do not have special things we wish to order..

Oceania is definitely NOT known for its activities (there are not many) or its entertainment..I agree with you..for me the ship is not a destination in itself but a hotel on the water and I consider Oceania one of the 5 star lines..but the truth is different people look for different things in a cruise..I for one love Seabourn, Radisson and Windstar and have enjoyed every trip we have had on all of them..as you can see Stu and I tend toward the smaller ships, looking for the on land experience and peace and quiet on the ship..we are going to try a trans-atlantic next year..that should really be relaxing..hope I dont sleep for the whole 10 days..we have been on 55 cruises and there are very few I can point to I really didnt like..I could always find something on each one we liked..even Carnival..althought I will say NCL is a cruise line, I personally would never sail on again..

Just MHO,

Jan

*****

[Fetchpeople]

As we write this note, we are on hold to talk to the Client Services representative at the cruise agency. We are canceling our booking for the 5/21/06 Oceania cruise from Barcelona to Lisbon.

 

The reasons are many:

1. One highlight of the trip for us was the opportunity to visit Libya and its outstanding Roman ruins. The Oceania 11/5/05 cruise canceled the Libya stops due to a disagreement between Libya and the US. Libya would not let Americans off the ship so the itinerary was changed at close to the last moment. According to both cruisecritic.com and our friends who took the trip, at least 2/3 of the passengers had not been notified. Our friends knew about 2 weeks in advance. Whether the lack of notice was due to Oceania or the individual travel agency, we cannot say, but suspect it is a combination.

2. Oceania substituted other ports of less compelling interest for the dropped ones, but made absolutely no effort to do any feel goods to mollify the routing change. In fact, they told our friends that a $50 cabin credit and bottle of wine was compliments of Oceania, but the truth was that they came from their travel agent.

3. There is no assurance whatsoever that the same or another grievance between Libya and the US will not pop up again or that any number of other travel warnings might prevail by May '06..

4. The tours in the various ports were overpriced and very, very poorly led. Witness the driver/guide who spent all, yes all, his time on his cell phone. Or the guide who dropped his group outside a mosque in Casablanca, in the rain no less, and told them that Oceania had not arranged for entrance.

5. Some tours were to include lunch, but the passengers were charged for lunch and Oceania refused to reimburse them

6. Some cabins were flooded in some rough weather; the ship did not handle such seas particularly well.

 

We are truly disappointed, but believe the cancellation, now complete, is the right move to make.

[Windrunner I]

Just returned back from two sailings, the 11-5 Libya(less) and the crossing. We're "roll with the punches" kind of people and while we missed not getting into Libya, as it was te highlight of the itinerary, we didn't want to make ourselves miserable. I really wish things had turned out differently, but I think a lot of people just made themsevlves even more miserable. In fact, I found quite a number of the guests downright rude and took out their frustrations on the poor crew. Yelling, screaming, making unreasonable demands. Other than Orient Lines and Discovery when they were owned by Gerry Herrod, I've never come in contact with a more dedicated, motivated and downright friendly crew.

 

The crossing was a disappointment due to the weather. And while some would believe the Regatta doesn't handle rough weather well, any ship would have been challenged by the 90 mph winds and rain. Much larger ships have fared much worse under less challenging conditions.

 

I thought the ship, the Captain and the entire staff did a remarkable job making sure all the passengers were comfortable and accomplished the herculean task of moving a heck of a lot of passengers to new staterooms in a very short period of time. In the middle of the night no less! Talk about a crew that works like a well oilled, precision machine! I'd have taken my hat off to them but then my toupe might have blown overboard. ;)

 

I love this line and I'll keep coming back!