Have Cancer? Dont go near Canyon Ranch!

[ontheH2O]

I certainly understand the OP posting about her husband's experience, as a warning to others, as I've previously posted and even thanked the OP for posting about the experience. What I don't understand is calling for a boycott because of this one incident. If you feel differently, that is great, we all have our own opinions.

 

On my last cruise I had $550 in OBC and used it at the spa and I had no issues. Surprisingly, I found out that many of the spa employees also worked for Steiner before the changeover.

 

I feel that had you gone to the spa with your $550. in on-board-credits and they refused to "put their hands on you" because you told them you were ill, you would have had issues just as the OP's husband.

[NLH Arizona]

I feel that had you gone to the spa with your $550. in on-board-credits and they refused to "put their hands on you" because you told them you were ill, you would have had issues just as the OP's husband.

No, I would have just spent my OBC elsewhere, unless there were other services they could do for me (I would have asked that question, as it seems that a massage was the treatment in question). I would understand that it was their policy and they have to follow it no matter what I think. Now if they were rude to me, I would have an issue with that.

[Fish Lover]

I certainly understand the OP posting about her husband's experience, as a warning to others, as I've previously posted and even thanked the OP for posting about the experience. What I don't understand is calling for a boycott because of this one incident. If you feel differently, that is great, we all have our own opinions.

 

On my last cruise I had $550 in OBC and used it at the spa and I had no issues. Surprisingly, I found out that many of the spa employees also worked for Steiner before the changeover.

 

I truly am happy that you used their services and were apparently treated well and satisfied. I just want to address your issue with the word boycott. Generally a boycott is called for when a company follows a particular practice or philosophy that is odious or immoral, if not necessarily illegal. This company has demonstrated their ignorance and intolerable treatment of people with cancer and diabetes. There is no doubt in my mind there are other conditions/situations in which they also ignorantly refuse services, and do so in a particularly disrespectful and insensitive manner. I believe this to be company policy and therefore a company-wide issue across all ships. I have seen it myself. I think under these circumstances it is absolutely appropriate to ask passengers to boycott. It is no different from boycotting chic-filet-a because of their corporate philosophy on gay rights, or Chicken of the Sea indiscriminately killing dolphins.

[NLH Arizona]

I truly am happy that you used their services and were apparently treated well and satisfied. I just want to address your issue with the word boycott. Generally a boycott is called for when a company follows a particular practice or philosophy that is odious or immoral, if not necessarily illegal. This company has demonstrated their ignorance and intolerable treatment of people with cancer and diabetes. There is no doubt in my mind there are other conditions/situations in which they also ignorantly refuse services, and do so in a particularly disrespectful and insensitive manner. I believe this to be company policy and therefore a company-wide issue across all ships. I have seen it myself. I think under these circumstances it is absolutely appropriate to ask passengers to boycott. It is no different from boycotting chic-filet-a because of their corporate philosophy on gay rights, or Chicken of the Sea indiscriminately killing dolphins.

Then by all means, you should boycott them.

[Fish Lover]

No, I would have just spent my OBC elsewhere, unless there were other services they could do for me (I would have asked that question, as it seems that a massage was the treatment in question). I would understand that it was their policy and they have to follow it no matter what I think. Now if they were rude to me, I would have an issue with that.

 

You would be surprised how quickly you feel as though you are "untouchable" when someone treats you as such. And how very difficult and embarrassing it is to express the disgust you are encountering. It's not the same as someone just treating you rudely. Every time you have to explain it, you have to relive it. It's humiliating.

[Nic6318]

ALL spas ask medical questions....they don't want to be sued for causing issues!

 

Maybe they handled it wrong...maybe you over=reacted...who knows? It's not just THAT spa that will react that way.

 

 

Hi

 

Exactly...you can choose to answer their questions and possibly be refused or lie. You are not compelled to tell the truth. So unless you wanted the option to sue if something went wrong, why would you tell them if you were not concerned. It is not their business except in that they wish to protect themselves.

[fshagan]

Definitely not the way to handle the situation as far as customer service. There is a better way to refuse to do something that might harm the customer. I have been refused certain things because of physical ailments, but it was not done in a demeaning manner, so I understood.

 

But, should the spa do a massage if there's 100% chance it will harm the customer? Of course not. Should it do the massage if there's 30% chance? What about 10%? I would probably say a spa should not do something that may harm even 5% of their customers. Do 5% of cancer patients experience harm from a massage? Having a doctor say "some believe it can harm you, but I don't" isn't enough proof for me. I would need hard proof before I harmed anyone, which means the default decision, barring that proof, is to refuse the service.

 

But that can be done in a good, caring way, rather than how the OP's husband was treated.

[Ma Bell]

Here is an article from MD Anderson Cancer Center which is one of the top cancer centers in the world. The article extols the virtues of oncology massage with this caveat.

 

"The process of metastasis is very complicated and poorly understood; however increased circulation is not considered a significant part of that process by itself.

However, it's true that cancer and cancer treatments can put people at risk for complications from massage, so it is important to take some precautions. Because of the different contraindications for massage in this population, it is very important for the massage therapist who is treating a person with a history of cancer - either currently or in the past - to have specialized training in oncology massage, in addition to being a licensed massage therapist. "

Here is the article.

https://www.mdanderson.org/publications/cancerwise/2010/07/the-benefits-of-oncology-massage-1.html

Although this could certainly have been handled better in the first place and there is no excuse for being rude, it does seem that there is a basis for disagreement on the subject. I'm really sorry the OP had an experience like this, especially being recently diagnosed, but I can also understand why a masseuse would want to have more knowledge and expertise on the subject of oncology massage and a deeper knowledge of the patient's condition before performing one.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Ma Bell

[Ma Bell]

By the way, the same can be said for diabetes cases especially with associated neuropathy issues. I'm sure not every masseuse on board a cruise ship is educated or qualified to perform massage for people with specific medical issues.

 

For those who call the staff of Canyon Ranch ignorant, immoral and insensitive, perhaps a little more knowledge on the subject is called for before calling for a boycott. There's obviously a reason that they prefer to not perform these services if they do not have people specifically trained in these areas. Speaking from experience of my own and my family members, I would want to make sure that someone knew what they were doing before taking the chance that further damage could be done. Denying service is a sure indication that they don't. There is no reason to be humiliated and I would be grateful that they didn't perform the service just to make money if they don't feel confident in their abilities.

 

I do agree that Steiner was better at managing spa services than Canyon Ranch has been.

[hcat]

..At this point I see no difference in their approach to customers...they are both way too agressive in signing folks up, fail to adhere to promotional pricing unless you have written proof; and sadly both push products which are available online..esp Steiner for Elemis, often at discount with free shipping.

 

I do think CR has better training and treatments but I prefer Elemis and La Therapie products

 

Maybe the brochure should have a bold written disclaimer that they regrettfully cannot treat those with cettain med issues, and ask you to discuss privately with a manager befire actually booking and sitting in a spa robe!

[Deeliteful]

I have often found the spa staff to be rude, patronising, condescending and unhelpful. There is no way a customer or potential customer should be treated that way. Fair enough if they can't do the treatment but how they communicate that is vital.

I once went to ask about a treatment for swollen legs as mine were in quite a bad way, the girl asked to see them and visibily recoiled with a look of disgust on her face- I was totally embarrassed and left the salon.

They certainly need some customer service training IMO

[Ma Bell]

I have often found the spa staff to be rude, patronising, condescending and unhelpful. There is no way a customer or potential customer should be treated that way. Fair enough if they can't do the treatment but how they communicate that is vital.

I once went to ask about a treatment for swollen legs as mine were in quite a bad way, the girl asked to see them and visibily recoiled with a look of disgust on her face- I was totally embarrassed and left the salon.

They certainly need some customer service training IMO

 

If you find them to be this way "often", why do you continue to return?

[Fish Lover]

By the way, the same can be said for diabetes cases especially with associated neuropathy issues. I'm sure not every masseuse on board a cruise ship is educated or qualified to perform massage for people with specific medical issues.

 

For those who call the staff of Canyon Ranch ignorant, immoral and insensitive, perhaps a little more knowledge on the subject is called for before calling for a boycott. There's obviously a reason that they prefer to not perform these services if they do not have people specifically trained in these areas. Speaking from experience of my own and my family members, I would want to make sure that someone knew what they were doing before taking the chance that further damage could be done. Denying service is a sure indication that they don't. There is no reason to be humiliated and I would be grateful that they didn't perform the service just to make money if they don't feel confident in their abilities.

 

I do agree that Steiner was better at managing spa services than Canyon Ranch has been.

 

I never said they were immoral. I stated that as a reason why some people would boycott a company.

As for stating that they are ignorant and wrong, they are,,,for the way they have treated individuals and for the reasons they give which are fictitious.

 

If they are going to refuse services, they are obligated to provide a cogent reason why. Further, they are in the business of making people feel good. How dare they then refuse services in such a way that that makes people feel awful about themselves?

 

This could all be averted if they would simply provide a paper that states the conditions undef which they will limit or withhold treatment and why. They can even have a disclaimer for people to sign. At the very least the explanations would hopefully be factual and written in a sensitive manner, Instead it is left up to uneducated individuals who have zero training to come up with something on the fly.

[Rob the Cruiser]

No, I would have just spent my OBC elsewhere, unless there were other services they could do for me (I would have asked that question, as it seems that a massage was the treatment in question). I would understand that it was their policy and they have to follow it no matter what I think. Now if they were rude to me, I would have an issue with that.

 

I agree.

 

I am a cancel survivor. The worst thing anyone ever said to me was "I don't sugar coat bad news. You have cancer. You have been scheduled to begin radiation treatments next week for the next 8 weeks." Then, the worst thing I ever had to say to someone was to tell my wife.

 

Whether the Canyon Ranch policy seems odd I would have accepted it. If they were rude I would fill out a comment card and be done with it.

 

While I can understand the emotional roller coaster OP and her husband must be going through I don't understand why a rude "no" would be so devastating. Best wishes for a full recovery.

[Ma Bell]

I never said they were immoral. I stated that as a reason why some people would boycott a company.

As for stating that they are ignorant and wrong, they are,,,for the way they have treated individuals and for the reasons they give which are fictitious.

 

If they are going to refuse services, they are obligated to provide a cogent reason why. Further, they are in the business of making people feel good. How dare they then refuse services in such a way that that makes people feel awful about themselves?

 

This could all be averted if they would simply provide a paper that states the conditions undef which they will limit or withhold treatment and why. They can even have a disclaimer for people to sign. At the very least the explanations would hopefully be factual and written in a sensitive manner, Instead it is left up to uneducated individuals who have zero training to come up with something on the fly.

 

There are always ways to do things better, but it may also be true that for many people the incident wouldn't in itself be upsetting. According to the OP, they said because he had cancer they were not allowed to massage him. What would you suggest they say? As I said, I feel very sorry that he was so upset but it's also a fact that some people are more easily upset than others and regardless of what someone says they will still be upset. It may have more to do with a recent diagnosis than anything else. That would be pure speculation on my part just as you are speculating about something that you really don't know either.

 

I would think that more people would be upset being sold something that may not be in their best interests in order to make money than being denied a service that may not be good for them but I wasn't there to see and hear what was said and neither were you.

[LH25]

My one wish is that everyone who has cancer, or who knows someone going thru cancer, or knows someone that has died from this awful disease, would boycott Canyon Ranch forever!!!

 

First, my best wishes for your husband's treatment and recovery. This hit home for me, almost exactly a year ago I got my cancer diagnosis, and it does hit like a ton of bricks. I hope you are both getting the support you need.

 

I can see why this was so hard for him. I can also see why the spa was hesitant to do the massage, but it does sound like they could have handled it so much better.

 

Lisa

[Reba 954]

You would be surprised how quickly you feel as though you are "untouchable" when someone treats you as such. And how very difficult and embarrassing it is to express the disgust you are encountering. It's not the same as someone just treating you rudely. Every time you have to explain it, you have to relive it. It's humiliating.

I think you hit the nail on the head...this is exactly how he felt. Here we are trying our best to have a good time despite a bad situation, and they treat him in this way. It just reminded him of everything we were trying to forget, and made him feel as if he wasnt good enough to be there. He was so upset, he was shaking, and my husband is the most laid back, laugh it off, type person you will ever meet. I am the hot head in the family :)

 

Maybe boycott was a strong word to use, but I am hoping if enough people dont use the services of Canyon Ranch, Celebrity will take note. And truly, we just dont want anyone else to suffer the humiliation that he did. Actually, while on the Eclipse, I heard talk of Celebrity going back to Steiner. Nothing concrete and maybe, just a wishful thinking rumor :) I know that cruise critic members are a small part of the passengers on board, but hopefully, an important part to Celebrity. I also want to say again...we dont blame Celebrity at all. When we went to them, they were just as horrified as we were. Its not their fault the manager of Canyon Ranch is condescending and insulting, and has no intentions of trying to rectify the situation. Thats all my husband wanted, was for him to say I'm sorry, and I will try to come up with a plan so that this doesnt happen to anyone else. Seems like a small request.

[NLH Arizona]

I agree.

 

I am a cancel survivor. The worst thing anyone ever said to me was "I don't sugar coat bad news. You have cancer. You have been scheduled to begin radiation treatments next week for the next 8 weeks." Then, the worst thing I ever had to say to someone was to tell my wife.

 

Whether the Canyon Ranch policy seems odd I would have accepted it. If they were rude I would fill out a comment card and be done with it.

 

While I can understand the emotional roller coaster OP and her husband must be going through I don't understand why a rude "no" would be so devastating. Best wishes for a full recovery.

First off, congratulations for your win over cancer. My big win was over surgery to remove a brain tumor.

 

Secondly, I think folks react differently to any situation. While it seems that you and I would have just brushed it off after they gave the reason why they couldn't do the massage, others obviously react differently and that is what makes the world go around.

[Rob the Cruiser]

First off, congratulations for your win over cancer. My big win was over surgery to remove a brain tumor.

 

Secondly, I think folks react differently to any situation. While it seems that you and I would have just brushed it off after they gave the reason why they couldn't do the massage, others obviously react differently and that is what makes the world go around.

 

Congratulations to you as well. I noticed my typo - "I am a cancel survivor." When the doctor broke the news, I felt cancelled.

[drew69]

Another way to look at it, is the OP and her husband should have respected the business decision made.

Sometimes, No means No, so you need to shut up and move on.

 

They have the right to refuse service based on their appraisal of the situation.

 

Most of the upset seems to be because the OP and her husband kept pushing the issue.

[LH25]

Another way to look at it, is the OP and her husband should have respected the business decision made.

Sometimes, No means No, so you need to shut up and move on.

 

But there is a difference between "We are so sorry, but we can not perform this service, for your safety and our own. Can we do ____ instead", and "We can't touch you"

[jonsmum]

Why oh why do people have to weigh in picking apart the situation in which the OP and their OH found themselves? Surely a 'thank you for the heads up' + good wishes for a speedy recovery is all that is called for.

[bengaltiger1]

Why oh why do people have to weigh in picking apart the situation in which the OP and their OH found themselves? Surely a 'thank you for the heads up' + good wishes for a speedy recovery is all that is called for.

 

 

Well said.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Deeliteful]

If you find them to be this way "often", why do you continue to return?

Because I am an optimist and hope that they will improve. Some staff are good but not all.

And why would on earth am I explaining myself to you when you inevitably take the opposing side of anyone's argument?

There is no way that the CS received by the OP can be acceptable.

[Ma Bell]

Because I am an optimist and hope that they will improve. Some staff are good but not all.

And why would on earth am I explaining myself to you when you inevitably take the opposing side of anyone's argument?

There is no way that the CS received by the OP can be acceptable.

 

I have no idea what you mean and if you read my post I agree that they certainly could have handled things better. Some of my comments were in response to the idea that it is perfectly OK for any cancer patient or anyone with diabetes to have a massage in the spa and that they were being discriminated against. It doesn't make a lot of sense to say that since they are in business to make money and usually will do just about anything to get someone to take a treatment. When someone suggests that everyone should boycott a business and makes a lot of statements that are patently untrue, I think it necessary to point out that they may have very good reasons for refusing service.

 

Personally, if I were you and were treated the way you have been I wouldn't ever return. I gave up on the spa treatments years ago because I found that they were overpriced and didn't stack up to treatments on land. The only services I book any more are hair and nails. I know it's unlikely they will be as good as those services at home, but I can always fix them up a little if necessary.

 

I think it's up to each person to decide if they think the service is acceptable and if not they should make their opinions known. I do , however, think we need to be fair and not over exaggerate on these boards. Calling for a boycott is, in my opinion, over the line.

 

One thing I'm completely sure of is that if someone's health was compromised by something done by an on board masseuse who didn't have the proper training to do an oncology massage, they would be leaving themselves open to a possible lawsuit.