Have Cancer? Dont go near Canyon Ranch!

[Fish Lover]

Another way to look at it, is the OP and her husband should have respected the business decision made.

Sometimes, No means No, so you need to shut up and move on.

 

They have the right to refuse service based on their appraisal of the situation.

 

Most of the upset seems to be because the OP and her husband kept pushing the issue.

 

Of course they have the right to refuse service, but they need to do it in the right way.

 

It isn't as though someone simply said. "I'm sorry, but we're unable to provide massages to persons that are currently battling cancer, because we do not want to be the cause of any possible further harm to your health. We are able to provide these alternate services.....".

 

These people make passengers fill out a long questionnaire, after you've changed your clothes, and then they refused in a horribly insensitive manner. You are a lost sale and they want noting to do with you, get annoyed that you've taken up their time, and actually recoil at the prospect of providing any treatment. I have heard these people speak and I've seen the look of derision that some have given to clients. They have no training at all in customer service or how to speak to someone coming for such personal services. It is disgraceful. Unless you have encountered it, you have no clue because you could not imagine the treatment dispensed in such a situation. Your comments serve to further victimize the victim. It's like telling an assault victim it's her fault for dressing provocatively.

[Fish Lover]

That would be pure speculation on my part just as you are speculating about something that you really don't know either.

 

.

 

I have had personal experience with this vendor on board. I do know and I am not speculating.

 

And just as a footnote, last I sailed apparently sales were down. So, the spa staff were lined up down each side of a narrow corridor leading to the theater. On the Summit you have no choice but to walk through on the way there and back (unless using the forward elevators). They were offering free 15 minute back and shoulder massages for anyone and then signing them up. Apparently when sales are low, they have no cares regarding injuring anyone or being sued.

[Ma Bell]

I have had personal experience with this vendor on board. I do know and I am not speculating.

 

And just as a footnote, last I sailed apparently sales were down. So, the spa staff were lined up down each side of a narrow corridor leading to the theater. On the Summit you have no choice but to walk through on the way there and back (unless using the forward elevators). They were offering free 15 minute back and shoulder massages for anyone and then signing them up. Apparently when sales are low, they have no cares regarding injuring anyone or being sued.

 

Don't twist the situation. Neither of us were there when this particular event occurred. I've had lots of experience with this vendor too and am not particularly thrilled with them either. Stay on the subject. Believe it or not, there are some people on these boards who have just as much experience on Celebrity ships as you do...maybe even more.;p

[Fish Lover]

Don't twist the situation. Neither of us were there when this particular event occurred. I've had lots of experience with this vendor too and am not particularly thrilled with them either. Stay on the subject. Believe it or not, there are some people on these boards who have just as much experience on Celebrity ships as you do...maybe even more.;p

 

Sorry. I just can't let this go. No, I wasn't there in this specific instance. However, I have seen enough anecdotal evidence to take the OP's word for what happened literally and at face value. I absolutely believe her, and support her comments. Hopefully passengers will think twice before using any services on board, ie "boycotting". If they fail their sales quotas often enough they will be replaced.

[beentothere]

They are correct. Due to lymph gland and other issues, general massage isnearly always prohibited. Their mistake is in the arrogance of not pre informing.

[Ma Bell]

Hopefully some of our friends or family members are not put out of a job because everything seems to rise to the level of a "boycottable offense" nowadays. Then again, maybe it's just special people that seem to know everything who should decide what is worthy of existing. Amazing.

[Fish Lover]

. Then again, maybe it's just special people that seem to know everything who should decide what is worthy of existing. Amazing.

 

I'm not deciding anything for anybody. I am expressing an opinion, and in this case I will not have my opinion diluted by other posters who cast doubt on the OP's report/complaint/experience or my comments simply because you decide to do so..

You are free to express a different opinion. You are free to do as you please and in this case buy the vendor's services. Do not tell me that because I choose not to that I am being dictatorial or autocratic. You are however being so by telling me my opinion is somehow less worthy than yours. How very special of you. Amazing.

[Newby58]

A local hospital near where I live and volunteer at has a Cancer Wellness Program where they offer everything from fitness programs, mindfulness, nutrition counseling, support groups, etc.. for those who are either in treatment or a survivor. One services they offer is massage therapy.

 

I don't understand were Canyon Ranch got the idea that massages will cause the cancer to spread.

 

 

Cancer is usually spread by "seeding" from the blood stream. However, there is a risk of a pathological bone fracture during a massage where there is a known or unknown bone tumour as a result of seeding.

And yes, careful massage is definitely a part of wellness program when living with cancer.

 

 

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[Ma Bell]

I'm not deciding anything for anybody. I am expressing an opinion, and in this case I will not have my opinion diluted by other posters who cast doubt on the OP's report/complaint/experience or my comments simply because you decide to do so..

You are free to express a different opinion. You are free to do as you please and in this case buy the vendor's services. Do not tell me that because I choose not to that I am being dictatorial or autocratic. You are however being so by telling me my opinion is somehow less worthy than yours. How very special of you. Amazing.

You actually just made my point for me. I made the choice to not buy the spa services a long time ago because of my personal experience. We are all entitled to do as we please.

 

The problem that I have is this attitude that people encourage everyone to boycott a business for what they perceive as an unforgivable sin. I'm not the one who is telling anyone what they should do....you are. Unless there is something more to the story that I didn't hear, I really don't know how one could come to the conclusion that they should be put out of business.

 

I hate that they were insensitive in the manner in which they spoke to the OPs but I never heard them say that this was done in front of other people in order to embarrass and humiliate them. I would also like to know if English is the masseusse's first language because I have found that many times they may not express themselves as a native speaker would.

 

I suggest that you actually read what I said and stop changing the direction of the conversation.

[JMG]

I have a friend that just completed treatment for cancer. Statistics show a 95% recovery from this type of cancer. She likes to go for massages so I appreciate the heads up about mentioning this to the staff.

 

I cannot begin to imagine the pain and heartache that both of you suffered on what was to be a relaxing time before treatments started. Kinda like getting punched again. Yes, when that cancer word is laid at your doorstep, it hits very hard.

 

Prayers being sent to both you and your DH.

[Fish Lover]

You actually just made my point for me. I made the choice to not buy the spa services a long time ago because of my personal experience. We are all entitled to do as we please.

 

The problem that I have is this attitude that people encourage everyone to boycott a business for what they perceive as an unforgivable sin. I'm not the one who is telling anyone what they should do....you are. Unless there is something more to the story that I didn't hear, I really don't know how one could come to the conclusion that they should be put out of business.

 

I hate that they were insensitive in the manner in which they spoke to the OPs but I never heard them say that this was done in front of other people in order to embarrass and humiliate them. I would also like to know if English is the masseusse's first language because I have found that many times they may not express themselves as a native speaker would.

 

I suggest that you actually read what I said and stop changing the direction of the conversation.

 

I'm not changing the subject. Companies that persist in corporate practices which are egregious should be boycotted. This particular company does not properly train their people on what to say and do in these situations, nor does their management. As a result they blatantly humiliate, and I would argue damage people to whom they are refusing service to (which is their legal right). This is a corporate wide problem, not just symptomatic of one location or one individual. Therefore the most effective way to institute change is to boycott. Further, persons that profess to care how their fellow passengers are treated should show support (or not). It is a personal decision, but the concept of boycotting is not inappropriate in this instance.

 

To your other point, it doesn't matter what the spa staff;s first language is. They are providing services to predominantly English speaking patrons, they should be properly trained. If not they certainly have the option of having a supervisor deal with the situation. They do not get a pass because of language. If they were local in a non-English speaking country, it would be different.

[aquidneck1]

Recent Canyon Ranch Experiences

 

Celebrity Equinox - January 2016. Staff was unfriendly. Zumba classes were short and useless and there was an extra charge. Hard sell for products and services.

 

Oceania Sirena - February 2017. Staff was excellent and helpful. No pressure to purchase products. I wanted to use their services. Front desk scheduler could have been friendlier but she was efficient. Zumba classes were a good workout - no charge.

 

So, either the Cruiseline sets some expectation or the managers were very different.

 

I am so sorry the the OP and her husband experienced this type of treatment in this very difficult time. IMHO, there is no excuse for this. I do hope that this is pursued with Celebrity. They need to hold the company to a higher standard.

[Big_G]

Just lost my Mom to cancer and I sympathize with the OP but I'm not sure how suggesting boycotts of Celebrity solves anything. I think trying to educate Canyon Ranch would be the best approach and if that requires a complaint to both CR and CCL then so be it. Hope he kicks this horrible disease to the curb.

 

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[keithm]

We recently returned from a 2 week cruise on the Eclipse. Three weeks before we left, my husband was diagnosed with cancer. Needless to say, it was like getting hit with a two ton truck, but we decided to go on the cruise (with his doctor's blessing) before he started chemo and radiation. His doctor told us there were no restrictions at all, and to relax, have fun, and de-stress. So to that end, my husband decided to get a massage on the 2nd day of the cruise. He was honest on the pre screening questionnaire and put down that he had cancer. The masseuse immediately told him she couldnt touch him and sent him away. No I'm sorry but...No offer of any other treatment...just...I cant touch you. He felt degraded and like he had leprosy. He asked for the manager and got an asst manager who basically repeated what the first person had said, plus adding that if they massage him it could make his cancer spread. So my husband came back to the cabin extremely mad, stressed and depressed. We then contacted his oncologist. He told us, there are some people that think this could be true, but he himself felt there was no basis for it, and felt it would be fine. So we went to customer service and asked for the Canyon Ranch manager to call us. What a mistake! He was condescending, demeaning, and just plain rude to my husband. AGAIN, my husband was so upset......even worse than the first time. To make matters worse, the manager ended up giving a list of services, that were acceptable for cancer patients to have at Canyon Ranch, to our butler to give to us. And on it was a "Canyon Ranch Special Massage". That was never offered at all.

Its not that they wouldnt do the massage, it was the way they handled it. He was not looking for sympathy, but this could have been handled in a way that didnt make him feel discriminated against. We will never set foot in Canyon Ranch again. Celebrity offered to make it up to us, but it wasnt Celebrity that did this. We feel like Canyon Ranch is a disgrace to Celebrity.

Please dont respond with all the reasons they were right not to massage him. We are aware of the different opinions, and as I said, its just the way it was handled. They didnt offer to let him sign a release, they didnt offer the whole page of other treatments he could have, until we contacted Celebrity, and they treated him like he had an awful disease they could catch. My husband is such an easy going guy...nothing ever bothers him. I have never seen him that upset. Its bad enough that he has to go through this terrible thing, but to see him in tears because they insulted him so bad,was devastating.

My one wish is that everyone who has cancer, or who knows someone going thru cancer, or knows someone that has died from this awful disease, would boycott Canyon Ranch forever!!!

Really found this one hard to believe. I've found canyon Ranch to be professional in every manner. I also am not someone who follows boycotts. I usually find the boycotters are generally religious types that always seem to feel offended in some way (anti gay, Prochoice etc.)I'll let plenty of other pax join in on this one.

[keithm]

Just lost my Mom to cancer and I sympathize with the OP but I'm not sure how suggesting boycotts of Celebrity solves anything. I think trying to educate Canyon Ranch would be the best approach and if that requires a complaint to both CR and CCL then so be it. Hope he kicks this horrible disease to the curb.

 

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I take it that "CCL" stands for Carnival Cruise lines. Celebrity is owned by Royal Caribbean. No assoc. with Carnival. The initials should be RCCL.

[keithm]

They are correct. Due to lymph gland and other issues, general massage is nearly always prohibited. Their mistake is in the arrogance of not pre informing.

Thank you for explaining a possibility of how Cancer "could" be spread. The lymph glands could help spread cancer cells around the body if stimulated. A good massage does stimulate. I feel it is true that the staff could have done a more through explanation as to why they could not perform the service. Still none of us were there to see what happened.

[keithm]

I'm not deciding anything for anybody. I am expressing an opinion, and in this case I will not have my opinion diluted by other posters who cast doubt on the OP's report/complaint/experience or my comments simply because you decide to do so..

You are free to express a different opinion. You are free to do as you please and in this case buy the vendor's services. Do not tell me that because I choose not to that I am being dictatorial or autocratic. You are however being so by telling me my opinion is somehow less worthy than yours. How very special of you. Amazing.

How very special of you as well!

[keithm]

Sorry. I just can't let this go. No, I wasn't there in this specific instance. However, I have seen enough anecdotal evidence to take the OP's word for what happened literally and at face value. I absolutely believe her, and support her comments. Hopefully passengers will think twice before using any services on board, ie "boycotting". If they fail their sales quotas often enough they will be replaced.

Let's say you owned a business: A customer feels they were wronged(justifiably or not)they then call for a "boycott" of your business. People respond & you're put out of business. Is that fair? Always seems to be, unless it's your business.Think about it! I have been wronged before. I simply choose not to do business with them again, but I don't push for boycotts.

[keithm]

I think you hit the nail on the head...this is exactly how he felt. Here we are trying our best to have a good time despite a bad situation, and they treat him in this way. It just reminded him of everything we were trying to forget, and made him feel as if he wasnt good enough to be there. He was so upset, he was shaking, and my husband is the most laid back, laugh it off, type person you will ever meet. I am the hot head in the family :)

 

Maybe boycott was a strong word to use, but I am hoping if enough people dont use the services of Canyon Ranch, Celebrity will take note. And truly, we just dont want anyone else to suffer the humiliation that he did. Actually, while on the Eclipse, I heard talk of Celebrity going back to Steiner. Nothing concrete and maybe, just a wishful thinking rumor :) I know that cruise critic members are a small part of the passengers on board, but hopefully, an important part to Celebrity. I also want to say again...we dont blame Celebrity at all. When we went to them, they were just as horrified as we were. Its not their fault the manager of Canyon Ranch is condescending and insulting, and has no intentions of trying to rectify the situation. Thats all my husband wanted, was for him to say I'm sorry, and I will try to come up with a plan so that this doesnt happen to anyone else. Seems like a small request.

Personally I far prefer Canyon to Steiner. My spouse had allergic reactions to the skin treatments used by them. Not real serious, but still annoying. Also though all spas "push" their products, Steiner pushes them a lot harder.

[keithm]

I have often found the spa staff to be rude, patronizing, condescending and unhelpful. There is no way a customer or potential customer should be treated that way. Fair enough if they can't do the treatment but how they communicate that is vital.

I once went to ask about a treatment for swollen legs as mine were in quite a bad way, the girl asked to see them and visibly recoiled with a look of disgust on her face- I was totally embarrassed and left the salon.

They certainly need some customer service training IMO

Spa personnel can/do refuse to perform a service if say you have Psoriasis/Eczema/Athlete's foot or other skin issues. If you feel that the staff has been "so" unaccommodating to you, then why do you go back??? Sorry, but my spell check corrected your mistakes, as well.

[Bo1953]

While I cannot attest to how this particular situation went down, I can believe that not only CRS but other spas may have the same/similar policies in place covering people with illnesses, that is unless they are specifically Medical Spas.

 

How are they to know how advanced the disease really is? They are not medical professionals. They deal with people all over the world and cannot presume to know what is or is not safe, even if the phrase 'My doctor says it is okay.' If it is okay and CRS refuses to provide services, one can always get service in one of the ports, provided the sole intent was to use OBC.

 

My personal experience has been in CRS that many on staff is ESL, so to know and understand American 'empathy' in speech is not second nature or possibly first nature pending on country of origin.

 

Just as we wish they would understand how to speak to us, maybe we need to think about how we speak to them when they are just following on-board policy.

 

I do not suspect that this one person was singled out for no treatment or how they spoke to him, I believe it is person who had to deliver the message expression which is being called into question. Sometimes we all deliver messages which do not match the receivers/listeners desired receipt either in terms of words or delivery.

 

I do feel bad that the OP could not receive the service desired and trust they did get a great massage upon returning home.

 

I think that the title or in the post itself, the advice needs to be 'discuss your medical situation in advance of preparing for a service just in case they will not provide it'

 

bon voyage

[autumn lass]

As a cancer survivor I am sorry that the original poster had such a negative experience, dealing with the diagnosis is hard enough without dealing with other issues. As other posters have said there were much better ways that Canyon Ranch could have dealt with the situation. However I had a totally different experience on Eclipse last year for our first post cancer cruise. At that time I was 5 months into remission. Prior to the cruise I contacted Canyon Ranch head office by email to enquire what if any Spa treatments they could offer me as i had a lymphatic cancer and I have peripheral neuropathy as a result of chemotherapy. After consulting with their staff on board they were happy to offer me a manicure/pedicure. When I arrived for my appointment the member of staff providing the treatment had researched my cancer and the peripheral neuropathy and printed out the relevant information so that she and I could read through and agree exactly what was to be included in the treatment. I hope that the original poster's husband is now going through treatment and that the outcome is positive.

 

 

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[Big_G]

I take it that "CCL" stands for Carnival Cruise lines. Celebrity is owned by Royal Caribbean. No assoc. with Carnival. The initials should be RCCL.

Wouldn't Celebrity Cruise Lines initials be CCL and aren't we on the Celebrity Cruise Lines Cruise Critic boards talking about a Celebrity ship and couldn't you figure that out or are you just being petty?

 

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[Deeliteful]

Spa personnel can/do refuse to perform a service if say you have Psoriasis/Eczema/Athlete's foot or other skin issues. If you feel that the staff has been "so" unaccommodating to you, then why do you go back??? Sorry, but my spell check corrected your mistakes, as well.

I answered that earlier. I did not have any of the issues above, just swollen legs.

Why do people like you have to argue all the time, with everyone? So sanctimonious, I think you would fit working in Canyon Ranch perfectly!

[keithm]

Wouldn't Celebrity Cruise Lines initials be CCL and aren't we on the Celebrity Cruise Lines Cruise Critic boards talking about a Celebrity ship and couldn't you figure that out or are you just being petty?

 

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Sorry, I always see Carnival referred by those initials as well. Some people have mistaken RCCL as a part of Carnival.