Who is HAL's new breed of customers?

[Tampa Girl]

I don't believe anyone here has suggested HAL turn their ships in to floating amusement parks. Just asking for a little updating of features to go with the next generation of people who want to cruise HAL. More updated music, better access for electronics, things like that. They have to something to get rid of that impression that only people who go in for ballroom and bridge have "fun" on these ships. Keep those little ships that do those long exotic cruises as they are so that the current HAL fans can keep their memories. But, to compete in the 7-day market in the Caribbean, they have to bring more than the old stuff over and over. Those cruises are just commodity items so they have to offer something different. I guess they can bring that "we don't have much if you don't remember the 50s and 60s, but we're quiet and classy" to the table. Just my opinion.

 

I see nothing wrong in this hypothesis. However, it misses the points made by many that venues and entertainment as it used to be is being removed and is not being replaced. In other words, why does it have to one way or another? BB King can can co-exist with the Adagio Strings or version thereof. Why does there have to be only one dance floor? Dancing was available in the Ocean Bar or xplorer's Lounge (am confusing the two) and in the rows Nest.

 

There seems to be only one reason for doing away with the aforementioned entertainment and the libraries - it costs money to operate them. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of how much, per passenger, it costs to maintain the libraries and librarians or to maintain a group like the Adagio Strings. The libraries have to incur a relatively minimal sum, and a librarian needs to work only two or three hours a day. Most of Ashford's improvements appear to be directed more to revenue-based activities, rather than attracting a different demographic.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Tampa Girl
incomplete

[OlsSalt]

I see nothing wrong in this hypothesis. However, it misses the points made by many that venues and entertainment as it used to be is being removed and is not being replaced. In other words, why does it have to one way or another? BB King can can co-exist with the Adagio Strings or version thereof. Why does there have to be only one dance floor? Dancing was available in the Ocean Bar or xplorer's Lounge (am confusing the two) and in the rows Nest.

 

There seems to be only one reason for doing away with the aforementioned entertainment and the libraries - it costs money to operate them. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of how much, per passenger, it costs to maintain the libraries and librarians or to maintain a group like the Adagio Strings. The libraries have to incur a relatively minimal sum, and a librarian needs to work only two or three hours a day. Most of Ashford's improvements appear to be directed more to revenue-based activities, rather than attracting a different demographic.

 

There are only so many crew beds. This is where the juggling of onboard activities takes place - trade on additional tooth whitener bed for one librarian bed. etc.

 

Trade four string quartet beds for two Adagio beds. Trade the larger BB King group for the Hal Cats and the Neptune and maybe even the guitar guy. The combinations are endless, the crew bunk space is not. Every new, desired activity takes a bed for the staffer in charge of providing it. Every loss of an activity opens up the possibility of new ones, using the same one bed.

 

Hot-bunking perhaps for the crew - the Librarian can sleep at night and the CrowsNest disco guy can sleep during the day?

[iancal]

Exactly. We don't want a floating amusement park. We would however like to see some updating in certain areas that we consider to be basic offerings. It seems to us that competition has reduced some prices but also raised the bar as to what people expect on a cruise. Especially my generation in the early their 60's.

.

Hotels went through the the same transformation years ago.

 

It is no matter to us whether cruise fares on HAL are the same as they were 10 or 20 years ago. This in no way causes us to make excuses HAL or any other cruise line. We live in the here and now.

 

The only thing that matters to us is whether or not a specific cruise offer is competitive to others in the marketplace and if we see value, based on our preferences, in the offering.

[slidergirl]

Actually, it is the Caribbean who will have to update their offerings. Crime, over-built, hyper-mall chain brand shopping and canned generic offerings are the biggest problem with Caribbean cruises. Not so sure the ships themselves need to change; it is the destination itself that has so little to offer.

 

If one wants just sunshine and entertainment then of course the ship will start having to offer more and keep its passengers on board. Maybe it is time for HAL to simply get out of the Caribbean market because it is ridiculous for this brand to destroy itself to compete against those already dedicated to offer whatever this Caribbean "travel" experience has become.

 

If the Caribbean is so bad now (I don't cruise there, but I do land vacations there, the last being Puerto Rico a year ago) and people are afraid to leave the ships because of crime, then a ship does indeed need to offer something to keep people occupied onboard. Or, you saying the Caribbean is not "classy enough" for HAL to service and to leave it to the cruise lines? Or are you looking down your nose at cruisers who enjoy Caribbean cruises? Leaving the Caribbean would probably not be feasible financially for it's existence. Where would you position the ships that do Alaska in the summer that currently do the Caribbean in the winter THAT WOULD TURN A PROFIT? Any other large mass-market cruise line not service the Caribbean?

[OlsSalt]

If the Caribbean is so bad now (I don't cruise there, but I do land vacations there, the last being Puerto Rico a year ago) and people are afraid to leave the ships because of crime, then a ship does indeed need to offer something to keep people occupied onboard. Or, you saying the Caribbean is not "classy enough" for HAL to service and to leave it to the cruise lines? Or are you looking down your nose at cruisers who enjoy Caribbean cruises? Leaving the Caribbean would probably not be feasible financially for it's existence. Where would you position the ships that do Alaska in the summer that currently do the Caribbean in the winter THAT WOULD TURN A PROFIT? Any other large mass-market cruise line not service the Caribbean?

 

Just stick to what i wrote, not what you are reading into it.

 

It would be interesting to see how much HAL depends on its generic Caribbean offerings to maintain its overall bottom line. Including what it would take to "compete" with the other more exclusively dedicated Caribbean ships.

 

Retrofitting the old or designing new HAL ships to be more floating entertainment centers to compete with this aggressive but short term Caribbean market has a cost point to it, when perhaps HAL would be better off going for the more global tourism market offering what they do best - low key travel, enrichment and destination cruising.

 

Anecdote from our Grand Asia cruise on the very lovely Volendam, which is an incredible travel adventure itinerary. Chatting with a couple at a Collectors Cruise event, I started out with saying isn't this a wonderful cruise. Their immediate response was this was the worst cruise and worst ship they had ever been on, and they could hardly wait to get off.

 

Then proceeded to go on and on about their last ship that had full Broadway productions and an ice rink with full shows. They never once mentioned anything they had been actually seeing on this particular Grand Asia cruise Obviously HAL ships were 100% wrong for them. Should HAL try to retain that market, or just stick to those who cruise for travel and destinations primarily.

 

Yes, I know the answer lies somewhere in between --- but HAL would not do badly keeping the needle well on the side of the travel and enrichment end, rather than the onboard entertainment end. Other cruise lines are better designed to offer that. But I also do not see the numbers or the trends that Seattle sees.

[kira5]

Actually, it is the Caribbean who will have to update their offerings. Crime, over-built, hyper-mall chain brand shopping and canned generic offerings are the biggest problem with Caribbean cruises. Not so sure the ships themselves need to change; it is the destination itself that has so little to offer.

 

If one wants just sunshine and entertainment then of course the ship will start having to offer more and keep its passengers on board. Maybe it is time for HAL to simply get out of the Caribbean market because it is ridiculous for this brand to destroy itself to compete against those already dedicated to offer whatever this Caribbean "travel" experience has become.

 

 

I knew there was a reason we hadn't done a Caribbean cruise (aside from the long flight requiring changes from the West Coast). I've had the impression that the Caribbean is swamped with cruise ships and the main islands have become tourist traps. I'd like to be wrong,

[Cruise Junky]

Bottom line, according to insiders HAL is towards if not on the bottom of Carnivals brands in terms of profit. What they've been doing isn't working. There needs to be some new blood and some changes.

[OlsSalt]

Here is info prepared in 2009 for the nation of Suriname - this may be badly out of date in 2017 but is a good starting place to understand the economics of the Caribbean cruise trade:

 

 

TheCaribbean continues to be the world’s most preferred cruise destination;representing about 70% of the international cruise demand and accounting for40% of all worldwide itineraries [according to the latest statistics of the Florida& Caribbean Cruise Association (FCCA)]. The cumulative number of cruisepassenger arrivals in the Caribbean region increased from 3 million in 1980 tonearly 20 million in 2007 [according to CTO’s latest statistics], which gives anindication of the level of maturity the cruise industry has reached.

[OlsSalt]

Bottom line, according to insiders HAL is towards if not on the bottom of Carnivals brands in terms of profit. What they've been doing isn't working. There needs to be some new blood and some changes.

 

Besides radically changing their onboard entertainment, what are the other "changes" should they offer?

 

Who is the "new blood" - different ages groups, different nationalities, different demographics? How should HAL reach them. Will the new Oprah marketing reach out to this new blood? What do Oprah customers travel for? Meditation, spa, shopping, giveaways, book groups - I never understood the Oprah appeal but will her large following offer the changes HAL seeks to improve its bottom line.

 

Why am I not surprised HAL has a lower profit margin than other ships - it is an incredible travel bargain for the price. Is this a problem with its demographics or its success in finding a durable sweet spot.

[OlsSalt]

From the 2016 CCL Annual Report:

 

 

At July 31, 2016, we performed our annual goodwill impairment reviews, which included performing aqualitative assessment for AIDA, Carnival Cruise Line, Cunard, P&O Cruises (UK) and Princess. Qualitativefactors such as industry and market conditions, macroeconomic conditions, changes to the weighted-average costof capital (“WACC”), overall financial performance, changes in fuel prices and capital expenditures wereconsidered in the qualitative assessment to determine how changes in these factors would affect each of thesecruise brands’ estimated fair values. Based on our qualitative assessments, we determined it was more-likely-than-not that each of these cruise brands’ estimated fair values exceeded their carrying values and, therefore, wedid not proceed to the two-step quantitative goodwill impairment reviews.

As of July 31, 2016, we also performed our annual goodwill impairment reviews for Costa, Holland AmericaLine and P&O Cruises (Australia). As part of our periodic process, we did not perform a qualitative assessmentbut instead proceeded directly to step one of the two-step quantitative goodwill impairment review and comparedeach of Costa’s, Holland America Line’s and P&O Cruises (Australia)’s estimated fair value to the carryingvalue of their allocated net assets. Their estimated fair values were based on discounted future cash flowanalyses.

[slidergirl]

Just stick to what i wrote, not what you are reading into it.

 

It would be interesting to see how much HAL depends on its generic Caribbean offerings to maintain its overall bottom line. Including what it would take to "compete" with the other more exclusively dedicated Caribbean ships.

 

Retrofitting the old or designing new HAL ships to be more floating entertainment centers to compete with this aggressive but short term Caribbean market has a cost point to it, when perhaps HAL would be better off going for the more global tourism market offering what they do best - low key travel, enrichment and destination cruising.

 

Anecdote from our Grand Asia cruise on the very lovely Volendam, which is an incredible travel adventure itinerary. Chatting with a couple at a Collectors Cruise event, I started out with saying isn't this a wonderful cruise. Their immediate response was this was the worst cruise and worst ship they had ever been on, and they could hardly wait to get off.

 

Then proceeded to go on and on about their last ship that had full Broadway productions and an ice rink with full shows. They never once mentioned anything they had been actually seeing on this particular Grand Asia cruise Obviously HAL ships were 100% wrong for them. Should HAL try to retain that market, or just stick to those who cruise for travel and destinations primarily.

 

Yes, I know the answer lies somewhere in between --- but HAL would not do badly keeping the needle well on the side of the travel and enrichment end, rather than the onboard entertainment end. Other cruise lines are better designed to offer that. But I also do not see the numbers or the trends that Seattle sees.

 

I read exactly what you wrote...

 

Lucky that you have the means to take HAL's small ships on those Grand Asia and then the B2B Collector's Cruises. From what I read around, those are a really a HAL niche. Within the mass-market cruise community, I would imagine (just my guess) that these types of cruises are the exception, not the norm. Every cruise line has it's little boutique ships that do unique itineraries (those older Princess and NCL ships that do "exotic" ports). But, I think three areas are the prime - Caribbean, the Med, and Alaska for US -based cruisers and the ships they service. I truly want to know where you think HAL should reposition those ships that do the Caribbean in the winter and turn a profit. They can't do the Med (not enough winter business), can't do Alaska (it's a seasonal-only deal). Do more of those West Coast to Hawaii trips? Do more West Coast Mexico trips? For the Mexico trips, there is probably a reason that cruiselines don't run that many of their ships there vs the Caribbean. Maybe HAL should migrate Konigsdam, Eurodam, Nieuw Amsterdam, Rotterdam, to another one of their lines to do the mass-market and just keep the Amsterdam, Prisendam, Zaamdam and become a exploration line with those exotic ports.

 

For what it's worth: I never go to shows, I don't do pool activities, I don't do the spa, I don't do napkin folding classes (sorry POA1), and I don't dance (don't dance on land, either). I like my quiet solitude. I don't like aesthetics that make my head hurt (remember the gaudiness of Joe Farkas). But, I do like an feeling that I am still in the 2010s.

Edited April 28, 2017 by slidergirl

[Cruise Junky]

From the 2016 CCL Annual Report:

 

 

At July 31, 2016, we performed our annual goodwill impairment reviews, which included performing aqualitative assessment for AIDA, Carnival Cruise Line, Cunard, P&O Cruises (UK) and Princess. Qualitativefactors such as industry and market conditions, macroeconomic conditions, changes to the weighted-average costof capital (“WACC”), overall financial performance, changes in fuel prices and capital expenditures wereconsidered in the qualitative assessment to determine how changes in these factors would affect each of thesecruise brands’ estimated fair values. Based on our qualitative assessments, we determined it was more-likely-than-not that each of these cruise brands’ estimated fair values exceeded their carrying values and, therefore, wedid not proceed to the two-step quantitative goodwill impairment reviews.

As of July 31, 2016, we also performed our annual goodwill impairment reviews for Costa, Holland AmericaLine and P&O Cruises (Australia). As part of our periodic process, we did not perform a qualitative assessmentbut instead proceeded directly to step one of the two-step quantitative goodwill impairment review and comparedeach of Costa’s, Holland America Line’s and P&O Cruises (Australia)’s estimated fair value to the carryingvalue of their allocated net assets. Their estimated fair values were based on discounted future cash flowanalyses.

 

Good to read they make more than scrapping them would. Hopefully that continues as the ships continue to age.

[RuthC]

I've had the impression that the Caribbean is swamped with cruise ships and the main islands have become tourist traps. I'd like to be wrong,

You're not.

[slidergirl]

You're not.

 

True. But, but enough people enjoy doing those cruises that lines build new and bigger ships to handle the capacity of people who want to cruise the Caribbean.

Not everyone can afford a European cruise or a World Cruise or a B2B Collectors Cruise. So, they cruise the Caribbean. Not everyone has the vacation time (unless you are a lucky retiree) to do more than a week at a time. So, they can do the Caribbean in that short time.

 

Anyone have an idea what HAL should do with those ships the deploy to the Caribbean in the Winter? Anyone?

 

(and I should be debarking the Eurodam today in Vancouver, but an emergency had to cancel at the last minute - the dog is still very ill, but the Vet isn't ready to concede yet.)

[Hlitner]

I knew there was a reason we hadn't done a Caribbean cruise (aside from the long flight requiring changes from the West Coast). I've had the impression that the Caribbean is swamped with cruise ships and the main islands have become tourist traps. I'd like to be wrong,

 

Yes and no. There are places to go on most islands that have few to no cruise ship passengers...and that is our usual destination. Fortunately for us, most cruisers seem to go to the same places...which are generally the most commercial tourist places. For example, on the island of St Maarten...many cruisers flock to either Orient Bay or Maho Beach! But that leaves 35 other beaches...most of which have few or no cruise ship passengers. And among these other beaches are places that are much more desirable then Orient or Maho.

 

We think the worst of the islands is St Thomas where the cruise industry has really harmed the island (in nearly every way). Traffic in Charlotte Amalie (the main city) is sometimes worse then driving through NYC in rush hour. Some of the beaches have wall to wall cruisers....most of decent stores have disappeared in recent years to be replaced by the typical Diamonds International type stores targeted at cruise ship passengers. The places where we used to buy decent clothes and linen....are gone...having lost their leases to one more tourist shop.

 

But the Caribbean has fabulous sea water...so for those of us who like to swim, snorkel or SCUBA...it is hard to beat...unless we go over to the South Pacific.

 

Hank

[slidergirl]

Yes and no. There are places to go on most islands that have few to no cruise ship passengers...and that is our usual destination. Fortunately for us, most cruisers seem to go to the same places...which are generally the most commercial tourist places. For example, on the island of St Maarten...many cruisers flock to either Orient Bay or Maho Beach! But that leaves 35 other beaches...most of which have few or no cruise ship passengers. And among these other beaches are places that are much more desirable then Orient or Maho.

 

We think the worst of the islands is St Thomas where the cruise industry has really harmed the island (in nearly every way). Traffic in Charlotte Amalie (the main city) is sometimes worse then driving through NYC in rush hour. Some of the beaches have wall to wall cruisers....most of decent stores have disappeared in recent years to be replaced by the typical Diamonds International type stores targeted at cruise ship passengers. The places where we used to buy decent clothes and linen....are gone...having lost their leases to one more tourist shop.

 

But the Caribbean has fabulous sea water...so for those of us who like to swim, snorkel or SCUBA...it is hard to beat...unless we go over to the South Pacific.

 

Hank

 

Well said, Hank. I never stay on St. Thomas - I head straight over to St. John and camp. Try it sometime. Listening to the braying of the wild donkeys at night at Cinnamon Bay is magical!

 

Do you have an idea for where those HAL ships could be repositioned to for the Winter that would still yield passenger loads and revenue sufficient to avoid the Caribbean?

[OlsSalt]

I read exactly what you wrote...

 

Lucky that you have the means to take HAL's small ships on those Grand Asia and then the B2B Collector's Cruises. From what I read around, those are a really a HAL niche. Within the mass-market cruise community, I would imagine (just my guess) that these types of cruises are the exception, not the norm. Every cruise line has it's little boutique ships that do unique itineraries (those older Princess and NCL ships that do "exotic" ports). But, I think three areas are the prime - Caribbean, the Med, and Alaska for US -based cruisers and the ships they service. I truly want to know where you think HAL should reposition those ships that do the Caribbean in the winter and turn a profit. They can't do the Med (not enough winter business), can't do Alaska (it's a seasonal-only deal). Do more of those West Coast to Hawaii trips? Do more West Coast Mexico trips? For the Mexico trips, there is probably a reason that cruiselines don't run that many of their ships there vs the Caribbean. Maybe HAL should migrate Konigsdam, Eurodam, Nieuw Amsterdam, Rotterdam, to another one of their lines to do the mass-market and just keep the Amsterdam, Prisendam, Zaamdam and become a exploration line with those exotic ports.

 

For what it's worth: I never go to shows, I don't do pool activities, I don't do the spa, I don't do napkin folding classes (sorry POA1), and I don't dance (don't dance on land, either). I like my quiet solitude. I don't like aesthetics that make my head hurt (remember the gaudiness of Joe Farkas). But, I do like an feeling that I am still in the 2010s.

 

In my poking around the 2016 CCL Annual Report, they don't break down their numbers by individual companies by over all they get apron half their revenues from North America - Caribbean and Alaska primarily - Panama Mexico too I suspect. And then the rest from Europe, Asia and "other".

 

So my suggestion they ditch the Caribbean and stop trying to compete with the "entertainment" ships would fall on deaf ears in CCL headquarters, but maybe HAL alone could exits this market and they can boost up their other more general cruise clientele lines.

[OlsSalt]

I read exactly what you wrote...

.......

 

Yes you read what I wrote, but then you also riffed off what I wrote with your own speculation and agenda, better than Ella Fitzgerald riffing off one note when she was at her prime. I don't mind hearing what you have to say, but don't put your thoughts on my words. It could be just a matter of rephrasing what you really want to say. I dunno.

[OlsSalt]

Bottom line, according to insiders HAL is towards if not on the bottom of Carnivals brands in terms of profit. What they've been doing isn't working. There needs to be some new blood and some changes.

 

That is not what I got from reading the 2016 Annual Report for CLL, but then the language was fairly arcane for a layperson. The official word was they were satisfied with all brands and found some were much better than others, but all were carrying their load with no problems.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Actually, it is the Caribbean who will have to update their offerings. Crime, over-built, hyper-mall chain brand shopping and canned generic offerings are the biggest problem with Caribbean cruises. Not so sure the ships themselves need to change; it is the destination itself that has so little to offer.

 

If one wants just sunshine and entertainment then of course the ship will start having to offer more and keep its passengers on board. Maybe it is time for HAL to simply get out of the Caribbean market because it is ridiculous for this brand to destroy itself to compete against those already dedicated to offer whatever this Caribbean "travel" experience has become.

 

I don't see HAL leaving the Caribbean. There's just too much business to be done there. And I think with people considering a first-time cruise, Caribbean comes to mind first--warm sea and air, floating hotel, what's not to like? Some people will stay on board in ports that have a reputation for being unsafe. (deserved or not, I don't want to get into that) I recently met a woman who said she wouldn't go back to the Caribbean because "the islands aren't safe." I tried to explain that they aren't all full of muggers and thieves, but she was convinced.

 

Our complaint about the Caribbean is that there isn't much "content" on the ship tours or for independent touring. We love sightseeing and museums. But that isn't what you get in the Caribbean, so we adjust our thinking accordingly, and try to find tours that are at least "sightseeing lite." Most tours are water or beach activities, and you can't blame HAL for that--water and beach are what's on offer, regardless of the line you cruise with.

 

I do find it sad that the port shopping malls have hurt the small independent shops. We look at it as a gauntlet to run to get to the real town. I don't shop at "gemstones international" stores or race around with the coupon book, spending $100 to save $1. But plenty of passengers do. Those malls stay in business because they make money.

 

The cruise lines have added experiences by developing their private islands. And there's the Carnival development at Grand Turk. But the other islands are what they are. As ships get bigger and more numerous, it's got to be a scramble for the cruise lines to come up with enough tours. "Conventional wisdom" is that the ship doesn't need to offer much on port days because everyone goes ashore. But the times we've stayed on board on HAL, we were not alone. So they should look for something to do during the day for those who want entertainment.

[iancal]

When I was working Caribbean cruises were at the top of the list. Not any more. As for St. Thomas...no thank you. Not to mention the efforts that the island is going through to mask their huge increase in crime. Now retired, if we want beaches Caribbean cruises do not even come into the picture. We don't want to have to back on the ship at 5. Or even earlier in some instances. Don't want to line up to get off the ship. Not the least bit interested in so called duty free savings. For us, it has become a downer. If we want a beach vacation we take one. High end AI's and pay as you go vacation spots have replaced Caribbbean cruises for us. It sometimes takes more effort and planning to arrange but the benefits for us far outweigh the efforts. Dinner in some noisy MDR with banquet food or a late meal at a small local place on the beach or on the warf. ? We laugh when we see folks waxing poetic about a day on the Carnival Corp island or the RCI so called Island. Let's face it. Cruising in the Caribbean is all about getting cruisers to spend as much time and as much money as possible on board. That means reduced port times among other things. We have really noticed the decline over the past 20 years and attribute it to the increase in popularity of cruising. Even Cuba for us looks like it may be on a downward slide form what is was, and still is....for the moment.

Edited April 28, 2017 by iancal

[slidergirl]

Yes you read what I wrote, but then you also riffed off what I wrote with your own speculation and agenda, better than Ella Fitzgerald riffing off one note when she was at her prime. I don't mind hearing what you have to say, but don't put your thoughts on my words. It could be just a matter of rephrasing what you really want to say. I dunno.

 

Oh, I sang in a choir for an event with Ms. Fitzgerald's son, Ray Jr. But, thanks for injecting a name that the over 70 crowd would remember. I'd rather think I riff like something more modern, say Bobby McFerrin or even Leslie Odom, Jr. (he is a pretty good jazz improv guy in addition to a pretty good Broadway actor).

 

So, tell us why you think HAL should pull out of the Caribbean? You mentioned crime, the chain stores, etc. Many of us hate St. Thomas, but we don't believe it is so extreme that HAL needs to abandon the people who like to cruise them in the Caribbean. Where should people who "grow up", as navybankerteacher said, and want to migrate to a more quiet environment go to if they want to continue the Caribbean? And, where should those ships reposition to? Where are the passenger loads such that more ships could cruise and not saturate the market?

[OlsSalt]

.......

 

So, tell us why you think HAL should pull out of the Caribbean? You mentioned crime, the chain stores, etc. Many of us hate St. Thomas, but we don't believe it is so extreme that HAL needs to abandon the people who like to cruise them in the Caribbean. Where should people who "grow up", as navybankerteacher said, and want to migrate to a more quiet environment go to if they want to continue the Caribbean? And, where should those ships reposition to? Where are the passenger loads such that more ships could cruise and not saturate the market?

 

I was catching the drift HAL needed to redesign to offer more onboard entertainment for the Caribbean itinerary, in order to compete with other larger cruises lines who slam down the Caribbean itinerary, like instant waffles at a Days Inn breakfast buffet.

 

Leave the "entertainment whille onboard" cruise passenger niche to the big boys, who already have the rock walls and ice rinks. It may be stupid for HAL to even try to compete.

 

Maybe they should maximize what they do best - longer, destination and enrichment cruises ....for..... (gasp)....... older, quieter passengers who are still looking for value cruising, not luxury cruising .... instead of trotting out new generic floating entertainment palaces, in order to attract new passengers. Or entice them away from the rest of the industry.

 

My speculation only, and I own it.

[Cruise Junky]

I was catching the drift HAL needed to redesign to offer more onboard entertainment for the Caribbean itinerary, in order to compete with other larger cruises lines who slam down the Caribbean itinerary, like instant waffles at a Days Inn breakfast buffet.

 

Leave the "entertainment whille onboard" cruise passenger niche to the big boys, who already have the rock walls and ice rinks. It may be stupid for HAL to even try to compete.

 

Maybe they should maximize what they do best - longer, destination and enrichment cruises ....for..... (gasp)....... older, quieter passengers who are still looking for value cruising, not luxury cruising .... instead of trotting out new generic floating entertainment palaces, in order to attract new passengers. Or entice them away from the rest of the industry.

 

My speculation only, and I own it.

 

But that's one of their issues,the older the clientele and the longer the cruise the less the onboard spend is. 7 day Caribbean cruises are the cash cow.

[OlsSalt]

But that's one of their issues,the older the clientele and the longer the cruise the less the onboard spend is. 7 day Caribbean cruises are the cash cow.

 

That is the unknown for the HAL brand - these Caribbean cruise are obviously a are a cash cow for CLL line in general as their Annual Reports sets out.

 

But if they are already a cash cow under the current HAL brand, why does HAL need to to compete for even more Carribbean, at the possible expense of losing the more tradition "midwestern" mentality HAL demographic. (His description - not mine - Arnold Donald - CCL CEO)

 

Might be smarter for CLL to push more Carnival brand 7-day Caribbean cruises, than asking the HAL brand to all the sudden morph into Celebrity, NCL, or RCCL. Or MSC or whomever runs the 7 day Caribbean market.

 

Obviously I have never been inside the CLL board room where these issues are most likely well-considered. Is the current Oprah glitz intended to beef up only the North American cruises demographics if these runs are no longer competitive for the HAL brand - Alaska and Caribbean - or will the Oprah effect penetrate even into the European and Asian offerings too and they become shorter, spa meditation cruises too.

 

Maybe I just answered my own question - is the Oprah effect intended to sell a quieter time on board a HAL ship - more spa and meditation oriented cruise, than the louder, diverse, high energy party-hearty atmosphere other ships offer on these shorter runs?