Elbe River

[Viking Cruises]

Dear roebud,

 

We, too, are disappointed that your cruise was impacted by low water levels.

 

Although the crew did their utmost to ensure a comfortable onboard experience, should you wish to discuss your disappointment and review your feedback about the handling of the itinerary changes, we would be happy to hear from you at TellUs@vikingcruises.com upon your return home.

 

In the meantime, we hope you enjoy your time in Prague and wish you safe travels.

 

Kind regards,

Viking Cruises

 

My husband and I boarded the Astrid Viking and she nor the Beyla ship sailed. We were bused to sights and switched ships part way through. No fun and very exhausting. Water levels are still low and we will be disembarking today. Hope things improve for the next sailing passengers

 

Rose

[Viking Cruises]

Dear acruisinprincess,

 

Please allow us a moment to clarify any misinformation.

 

As you’ve read on this forum, the Elbe River is currently experiencing low water levels and our Elegant Elbe itineraries have, indeed, been impacted. River conditions are volatile and, as a result, difficult to predict. Should we anticipate any weather-related adjustments before departure, however, we do alert guests and have done so for the last few sailings.

 

Although we recognize you don’t cruise for several more weeks, should you have questions about our handling of these uncontrollable situations, you are welcome to send a note to TellUs@vikingcruises.com so that we can arrange a phone call.

 

You are also welcome to track updates on current sailings on our website here:

 

https://www.vikingrivercruises.com/my-trip/current-sailings/index.html

 

We appreciate the opportunity to respond, acruisinprincess, and look forward to welcoming you aboard next month.

 

Warm regards,

Viking Cruises

 

Viking tells us there haven't been any adjustments to sailings up to this point. Very confusing based on your experience.

 

We are on the Astrid on July 23rd in Prague boarding ship on Tuesday, July 25, 2017.

 

When were you advised that the trip was basically bus tours? How long were you on buses for each tour and when did they tell you to pack to change ships? There are days you could have lunch on board the ship, so how did you get lunch if you were on buses?

 

Only one ship swap?

 

I am very unhappy to hear Viking not advising clients in advance of the problems.

 

 

 

 

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[acruisinprincess]

Dear acruisinprincess,

 

 

 

Please allow us a moment to clarify any misinformation.

 

 

 

As you’ve read on this forum, the Elbe River is currently experiencing low water levels and our Elegant Elbe itineraries have, indeed, been impacted. River conditions are volatile and, as a result, difficult to predict. Should we anticipate any weather-related adjustments before departure, however, we do alert guests and have done so for the last few sailings.

 

 

 

Although we recognize you don’t cruise for several more weeks, should you have questions about our handling of these uncontrollable situations, you are welcome to send a note to TellUs@vikingcruises.com so that we can arrange a phone call.

 

 

 

You are also welcome to track updates on current sailings on our website here:

 

 

 

https://www.vikingrivercruises.com/my-trip/current-sailings/index.html

 

 

 

We appreciate the opportunity to respond, acruisinprincess, and look forward to welcoming you aboard next month.

 

 

 

Warm regards,

 

Viking Cruises

 

 

 

Dear Viking:

 

If people pay for a cruise and they end on a bus tour, how are clients compensated?

 

 

 

 

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[Paulchili]

Dear Viking:

 

If people pay for a cruise and they end on a bus tour, how are clients compensated?

 

 

 

 

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Not Viking rep - just guessing.

I suspect that there is a disclaimer somewhere in small print addressing this issue and stating that the company is not responsible for low water levels (or something along those lines).

I would be very pleasantly surprised if Viking (or any other company) would compensate you in any way for this. It's akin to an ocean cruise line skipping a port (or changing itinerary) due to weather or some other reason - no compensation except maybe a refund of port fees (insignificant amount).

JMO - wondering what Viking rep has to say about this issue..

[notamermaid]

Paulchili,

 

I fear you are right to a great extent. In my river cruise info it said that (translated) "port changes and itinerary changes due to disruptions because of high or low water might have to be made by the company at very short notice" but also "the company will inform passengers of major changes to the itinerary if known before the start of the cruise". A port change is acceptable, but a cruise ship that is highly unlikely to actually set sail can in my opinion be anticipated by the cruise company and should be part or fully refunded.

 

The Viking Beyla incidentally was in Dresden yesterday at 7pm local time, was at Dresden 10am this morning local time and at Dresden 10pm today local time according to marinetraffic. The water level at Drsden is at 73cm as of 10.30pm local time.

 

I am eagerly awaiting an answer to acruisinprincess' question:

 

 

Dear Viking:

If people pay for a cruise and they end on a bus tour, how are clients compensated?

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notamermaid

Edited June 27, 2017 by notamermaid
corrected details

[acruisinprincess]

Not Viking rep - just guessing.

I suspect that there is a disclaimer somewhere in small print addressing this issue and stating that the company is not responsible for low water levels (or something along those lines).

I would be very pleasantly surprised if Viking (or any other company) would compensate you in any way for this. It's akin to an ocean cruise line skipping a port (or changing itinerary) due to weather or some other reason - no compensation except maybe a refund of port fees (insignificant amount).

JMO - wondering what Viking rep has to say about this issue..

 

 

 

Our experience on the Royal Princess in 2013 was interesting to say the least. We were on a 14-day Mediterranean from Venice to Barcelona when after day 7 our ship had mechanical problems. We arrived in Naples a day late but Princess made arrange to get all 3000 passengers home early or at least to their point of departure which was Barcelona. They paid flights home, any food or hotel expense, gave a FULL REFUND of the cruise cost, plus a 25% discount on a future cruise. We still had been to Venice, Istanbul, Mykonos, Ephesus, and Naples. Since we were bused from Naples to a Rome to get home on our flights, Princess covered all expenses.

 

Changing an expensive River Cruise to a Bus Tour, regardless of the efforts of Viking to get you to the PORTS, is significant.

 

What about lunches available daily on the ship? Busing to and from ports is inconvenient, stressful, time consuming, and will require people to purchase a noon meal that Viking offered on the ship.

 

Disclaimer or not, it seems Viking should reimburse at least part of the cruise portion of this trip.

 

I'd love to hear from Viking.

 

 

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[Paulchili]

You are preaching to the choir :D

I agree with you that a bus tour is not the same as a river cruise - that is why I (and others here) are booking cruises and not land tours.

That said, the Princess example you gave is a different scenario - you only got 1/2 of your cruise and were left short of your departure city.

OTOH, presumably Viking would give you your full itinerary (with all the meals and accommodations) except they would be on land rather than on the boat. Still, Princess' compensation was very generous and kudos to them.

Viking should also offer some compensation IMO.

Let's see what Viking will say.

[Host Jazzbeau]

There is also the issue that different cabins on the ship have wildly different fares, but when the cruise turns into a bus trip reports are that all passengers are treated pretty much the same. [This is not limited to Viking, by the way.] If reimbursement is based on fare paid, that seems fair. And all seats on the bus are pretty much the same so nothing can be done there. But for things like hotels: suite passengers should get a suite in the hotel, no? So I think that if I were booking a cruise where a bus tour is more likely than average [e.g. the Elbe] I would book the cheapest cabin to minimize my losses regarding the changes.

[notamermaid]

No reply from Viking yet, pity.

 

But good news from the Elbe. Rain has raised the river level well, so that ships can sail on the Elbe at least near Dresden and a but further downstream. How long will this last? No idea at all. The river level might peak today and if there is no rain to follow this up (also in the Czech Republic where they can control the locks to supply a more steady stream towards Dresden) the level could fall steadily again. Currently Dresden is at 167cm. And the Viking Beyla is heading upstream towards Bad Schandau.

 

notamermaid

[Mark_T]

No reply from Viking yet, pity.

 

But good news from the Elbe. Rain has raised the river level well, so that ships can sail on the Elbe at least near Dresden and a but further downstream. How long will this last? No idea at all

 

Good news for now at least, but it does highlight why the decisions are kept so close to the departure dates and why there is so much uncertainty even once a cruise has begun...

[notamermaid]

The water level at Dresden peaked yesterday at 174cm and has fallen a little, but still looking good. The temperatures will stay cool-ish and there will be a little more rain in the area in the next two days.

 

notamermaid

[AnhaltER1960]

It might be of interest to have a look at the charts of the water levels of the Elbe shown http://www.dessauwetter.de/dw/de_pegel_2013 here. The graphs show the water level of the last 4 weeks at the stations

* Schöna (CZ-DE border)

* Dresden

* Riesa

* Torgau

* Elster, which all are relevant for Viking Elegant Elbe cruises, plus

 

* Dessau

* Barby

* Magdeburg, which are downstream of the Viking tours, but might be relevant for other cruises.

 

It is clearly to see that, after a long period of drought the rainfall on June 24th had lifted the water table at Schöna an Dresden by approx 12 inches. Then, despite there was further rainfall in the area, the water table dropped again continiously (looks to me the Czech shut their gates at the Usti reservoir in order to refill it). On June 29th massive rainfalls made the river rise by 5 feet within 24 hours at Schöna. The wave is moving downriver and has reached Elster at the time of writing (please note the charts are showing the last 4 weeks, not a fixed date. The described changes of the water level cannot be seen from End of July onwards).

 

This means the next cruises to come should be safe to get afloat. But it also shows how quickly the situation can change, even by several feet within hours in a situation, where inches can make the difference between sailing and no sailing. So, even end of July is not predictable yet, even though there is more rainfall forecast in the days to come.

 

It also depends very much, where exactly the rain comes down. While the Elbe drains most of the Bohemian Basin in the Czech Republic, she drains only a small corridor of some 20 miles in Southern Saxony. Rainfall to the west of that is drained by the Mulde river (which eventually discharges into the Elbe, but only at Dessau, downstream of the Viking cruises and therefore not relevant for them), rainfall to the east discharges into the Spree, reaching the Elbe even further downstream.

[notamermaid]

AnhaltER 1960,

 

welcome to CC. Thank you for your informative post. Just a quick note on the graphs in case people start wondering if they need to look up words up in dictionaries: not really necessary, if you just want to know quickly of what to look at for orientation and potential disruptions for your cruise see if the line marked with MNW is visible. If it is and the graph for the water level is close to it, on it or lower your cruise is likely to be affected or the ship not sailing at all depending on town and graph.

 

The Elbe is actually a relatively long river but most of it is not sailed by non-European companies. CroisiEurope sails downstream on an itinerary for example. So do German companies. In some ways this going upstream towards Dresden and into the Czech Republic does not seem such a good idea, the Elbe has a different classification as a waterway from Wittenberg downstream, I wonder if that makes a difference to sailing for river cruise ships? Is the river more "reliable" from there? Might it make more sense to take a motorcoach from Prague to Dresden and then sail downstream? Oh well, CroisiEurope thought it possible to go to Prague with the new ElbePrincesse. I do hope the situation improves.

 

The drainage area of the Elbe is surprisingly the fourth largest in Europe but most of it - as you pointed out - is downstream from the river cruise industry important ports like Dresden. Only a third of the drainage area of the Elbe is in the Czech Republic: https://www.fgg-elbe.de/einzugsgebiet-en.html

 

I could not find a canal connection from reservoirs near Usti nad Labem (which has the old German name Aussig, I guess not used anymore) to the Elbe but I am sure you are right. It is regularly mentioned in newspapers that the locks at Usti and upstream retain water but the authorities communicate with the German water boards about the release of more water, for example last week to give extra centimetres for the excursion boats to be able to sail.

 

The situation on the Rhine is easier partly due to the drainage basin being so large in the Upper Rhine and the locks throughout the area guarantee a steady flow (the navigation channel is quite deep as well). By the time the Rhine has passed Strasbourg it has drained 2/3 of Switzerland (i.e. the Alps) been through Lake Constance and drained half of the Vosges mountains (via the Ill flowing through Strasbourg) as well as large parts of the Black Forest.

 

Thank you again.

 

notamermaid

[NotStressedAnymore]

Hi Crusin' Princess!

 

We booked Viking's Elegant Elbe cruise in July 2015. It was a nightmare - the water was so low that you could literally walk across the river at some points. Neither the Astrilde or Beyla sailed, so they bussed us every day up to 1.75 hours in each direction, to and from our ship. And, midweek we had to change ships, which required packing and unpacking, and yes, another long bus ride. As a an example of the ridiculousness of the required itinerary changes, we ended up visiting a brewery at 10 o'clock in the AM in LItomerice.

 

 

Now - here is the thing....Viking sent an email 2 or 3 days before the trip was to start. We got it when we were literally at the airport, about to board the second leg of our Viking arranged flight, to be in Berlin for our 'add on' 2 day pre-cruise tour. The email was not entirely clear that the boat would not sail - just that the itinerary might be impacted. So, we got on the plane, figuring we would do Berlin and sort out the cruise situation with the Viking people there. BIG MISTAKE. Viking told us that because our cruise package started with the air trip, we had no recourse. They offered us an insulting $1,000 per traveler credit on a future cruise. (This barely scratched the surface of our $13,000+ trip cost.). The part that made this so infuriating - they blamed the low water levels on the lack of snow melt (which would have been known in April) and that they cancelled the prior weeks' cruises, but did not inform us that this risk was present. Also adding insult to injury, the boat was docked alongside a construction site....where The view from our suite was the port-a-potty and construction dumpster. Awful. We made several attempts to resolve, they were intractable, and we finally gave up. We will never travel with Viking again. The moral of the story is this - if you suspect low water, call Viking, cancel and reschedule before you start your trip. Others on our trip did this and apparently received full credit and another sail date. I strongly believe that Viking is financially overextended with their foray into Ocean cruising. Their treatment of repeat customers - especially in the high $ suites, was deplorable.

 

 

All that said, I truly hope it works out for you and that you have a good experience.....crossing fingers.

 

 

 

We are on The Elbe River Cruise from Prague to Berlin near the end of July. Viking has Cruise updates for current sailings that indicate low water levels on the Elbe River may affect these sailings. Viking will offer no explanation of what effect the low river may have since it is not our sailing.

 

Does anyone know the situation on the Elbe River and how Viking changes for low River conditions on Elbe?

 

When we were on The Grand Mediterranean Tour Amsterdam to Budapest two years ago, we were on the ship 7 days before they told us the night before to pack our bags for a ship swap. The cruise director was asked repeatedly and said they didn't know yet but that is hard to believe because they knew the conditions already and weather forecasts. Disheartening to be treated like children who didn't need to be aware of Cruise changes.

 

 

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[notamermaid]

NotStressedAnymore,

 

sorry to hear about your experience. A note on the Viking comment "snow melt": snow melt normally has an impact on the water level in the way that makes the water rise - sometimes quickly. Viking must have meant something slightly different for a July situation. Not enough snow having fallen that melted to get the water level high enough to get the river well through the summer heat would have been more accurate. But that is also a little to easy - several factors play into such a low water situation. I think such a statement does not sound convincing to someone who is sitting on a non-moving boat in July.

 

Your situation was somewhat typical of what people have reported here on CC and elsewhere and what I have seen on German television. Viking informs people at short notice as river levels on the Elbe can change within hours depending on rain fall - see posts above.

 

For myself - I know I am repeating this - I can only say that there is another company which also operates on the US-American market. If I ever decide to sail the Elbe I hope CroisiEurope will be able to sail for longer in low water (there is every reason to presume so) and that communication, especially for US-American customers who need to fly in, is - let us say - more accurate.

 

I hope all those having booked for the Elbe have insurance but I hope even more that it will be not needed and that all sailings will take place from now.

 

I shall keep watching the river level over the next few weeks.

 

Dresden is at 81cm right now. For what that implies see post #3 to #6 of this thread.

 

notamermaid

[NotStressedAnymore]

Notamermaid - all great points! I wish I had known about this forum before our Elbe cruise! We had been so lucky before that with a wonderful Grand European from Amsterdam to Budapest, without water issues.

 

We have not given up on cruising - we're taking the Tauck Belle Epoch 3 week trip later this month with two cruises - one on the Seine, one on the Rhone/Saone rivers. Enjoy the summer - we certainly hope to!!

[steverhodes]

NotStressedAnymore,

 

sorry to hear about your experience. A note on the Viking comment "snow melt": snow melt normally has an impact on the water level in the way that makes the water rise - sometimes quickly. Viking must have meant something slightly different for a July situation. Not enough snow having fallen that melted to get the water level high enough to get the river well through the summer heat would have been more accurate. But that is also a little to easy - several factors play into such a low water situation. I think such a statement does not sound convincing to someone who is sitting on a non-moving boat in July.

 

Your situation was somewhat typical of what people have reported here on CC and elsewhere and what I have seen on German television. Viking informs people at short notice as river levels on the Elbe can change within hours depending on rain fall - see posts above.

 

For myself - I know I am repeating this - I can only say that there is another company which also operates on the US-American market. If I ever decide to sail the Elbe I hope CroisiEurope will be able to sail for longer in low water (there is every reason to presume so) and that communication, especially for US-American customers who need to fly in, is - let us say - more accurate.

 

I hope all those having booked for the Elbe have insurance but I hope even more that it will be not needed and that all sailings will take place from now.

 

I shall keep watching the river level over the next few weeks.

 

Dresden is at 81cm right now. For what that implies see post #3 to #6 of this thread.

 

notamermaid

 

Some day we would like to do the Elbe tour. Is there a time of the year or times of the year when the Elbe is generally ok to cruise on and water issues are much less likely?

[notamermaid]

Some day we would like to do the Elbe tour. Is there a time of the year or times of the year when the Elbe is generally ok to cruise on and water issues are much less likely?

 

steverhodes,

 

this question was raised earlier in the thread, see posts #9 and #10. I had not really looked into the Elbe situation before last year and am not familiar with the area. There does not seem to be an easily accessible statistic that clearly states likelihoods of water-related problems.

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

Things are not looking good on the Elbe for cruising. The river level at Dresden is at 80cm this lunchtime.

 

notamermaid

[xmaser]

I suggest that May is your safest bet. We squeaked through with a slight itinerary alteration in the first two weeks of June in 2015. The trip is beautiful and hope you get to enjoy it.

[acruisinprincess]

NotStressedAnymore,

 

sorry to hear about your experience. A note on the Viking comment "snow melt": snow melt normally has an impact on the water level in the way that makes the water rise - sometimes quickly. Viking must have meant something slightly different for a July situation. Not enough snow having fallen that melted to get the water level high enough to get the river well through the summer heat would have been more accurate. But that is also a little to easy - several factors play into such a low water situation. I think such a statement does not sound convincing to someone who is sitting on a non-moving boat in July.

 

Your situation was somewhat typical of what people have reported here on CC and elsewhere and what I have seen on German television. Viking informs people at short notice as river levels on the Elbe can change within hours depending on rain fall - see posts above.

 

For myself - I know I am repeating this - I can only say that there is another company which also operates on the US-American market. If I ever decide to sail the Elbe I hope CroisiEurope will be able to sail for longer in low water (there is every reason to presume so) and that communication, especially for US-American customers who need to fly in, is - let us say - more accurate.

 

I hope all those having booked for the Elbe have insurance but I hope even more that it will be not needed and that all sailings will take place from now.

 

I shall keep watching the river level over the next few weeks.

 

Dresden is at 81cm right now. For what that implies see post #3 to #6 of this thread.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

Thank you, notamermaid,

 

I am not too hopeful for a cruise that actually cruises. The brand new update for this week's sailings says - this week sailings are expected to "sail the majority of the itinerary" and our sailing starts July 25 in Decin. What does majority mean? We start in Prague on July 22nd.

 

ELBE RIVER

Water levels on the Elbe remain low, but our cruises on the river this week are expected to sail the majority of the itinerary.

 

Please note, conditions may change on short notice. Guests will be contacted individually if deviations from the standard itinerary become necessary.

 

 

Glad you are there to advise, because calling Viking does not provide any further information.

 

A cruisin princess.

 

 

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[notamermaid]

The river, despite some rain, is still low, Dresden is at 80cm today. Not looking good. In fairness, I do not think that Viking can be any more precise than they are on their website. Majority of the itinerary? Not sure what that is supposed to mean, either. The river has been low: https://www.pegelonline.wsv.de/webservices/zeitreihe/visualisierung?ansicht=einzeln&pegelnummer=501060 remember to take a screen shot or download as the graph will change from day to day.

 

Hoping for the best.

 

notamermaid

[nancyevans]

Have you looked at a website like Marinetraffic to see if Viking ships are even moving on the Elbe?

 

 

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[AnhaltER1960]

Have you looked at a website like Marinetraffic to see if Viking ships are even moving on the Elbe?

 

They are. The Viking Astrild has been in Wittenberg on Sunday July 9th, completing her sailing downriver from Decin as scheduled. Right now she moves, as Marinetrafic shows, upriver somewhere between Torgau and Dresden, which should also be in line with the schedule. Havent checked the Beyla yet, but the usually have both ships moving, so the are in different locations, in case the are fixed by low water.

 

 

Rainfall in the last days (and there is more rainfall forecast) has lifted the water levels a bit. At least enough to allow sailing for the time being, but still hard to predict the weeks to come.

[AnhaltER1960]

Havent checked the Beyla yet, but the usually have both ships moving, so the are in different locations, in case the are fixed by low water.

 

Buying three "y". Read they instead of the.