Princess vrs. Holland america

[Hlitner]

Just a word about Sabatini's which is the alternative upscale Italian restaurant on most (if not all) Princess ships. At one time we thought it was a terrific option, but some recent changes now call this in question (and has been discussed on the Princess blog). Sabatini's has recently undergone a major change in its menu (this may not be implemented on all ships as of this time) and the new menu has not gained many fans. We noticed that the restaurant was generally pretty empty on our recent 10 day Regent Princess cruise. DW and I did take a look at the menu, and considering the $29 per person fee....we had no interest in trying out the new menu. The Crown Grill (also $29 per person) seemed to be a much more popular alternative. This is primarily a steak house...although the menu does have other items. One might draw a comparison to the Pinnacle Grill.....and we will leave it to others to do a comparison since we have not dined in the Crown Grill for a few years.

 

Hank

[iancal]

I think that it is very hard to compare food offerings between these mass market lines. Personal tastes play such a large part in it. But really, we find that there is a great deal of inconsistency between ships and even between sailings on the same cruise line. It is just as possible for us to have fabulous meal as it is to have a mediocre meal-on both lines and in all dining venues.

[KrissyCruises]

I’m a fan of both lines. I’ve sailed many more days on HAL, but prefer the food in the MDR and wine selection superior on our Princess cruises.

I think the length of the voyage is a factor on any ship, and have noticed that on most of our cruises, regardless of the line.

[DeepWaterMariner]

Question for those Princess cruisers: We have both been vegetarians for 25 years. We took Princess a couple of times about 10 years ago and swore never again because of their lack of vegetarian options. My wife lost 5 pounds on a 7 day Mexican cruise. At the time, all they had at the Mexican specialty restaurant for us was guacamole and chips! It is so easy to provide so many vegetarian options in Mexican quisine! Where was their brain? They even had a big banner in their buffet about the % of vegetarians in California - but put meat(without labeling it) in their "vegetarian" section because they "ran out of room"! We only found out because we stopped the chef to thank him for offering meatless options. We were beyond upset! So have there been true changes? Probably best to hear from other vegetarians, since they will fully understand our frustration with that cruise line. Keep in mind that Holland America has offered a complete seperate vegetarian menu for years.

 

I'm Elite on Princess and 5 Star Mariner on HAL. My traveling companion is vegetarian and had trouble finding menu options on our just completed 28 day cruise on the Emerald Princess. She always has the vegetarian menu to fall back on when sailing HAL but that doesn't exist on Princess. Princess offers one vegetarian entre option, take it or leave it. She will eat fish when we cruise but, at least on the Emerald, the fish was almost always over cooked. One of the things we both like about HAL is that they will buy local fish when in port and list it on the menu as such. That isn't something we see on Princess.

 

Princess does have lots of activities driven by their large cruise staff. HAL has cut too far in that area. The problem with the Princess activities is that the venues are too small to handle the crowds. That goes for the showroom in particular. If you arrive for a show less than 30 minutes ahead of time you were lucky to find a seat. Crowds seemed to define our recent Princess crowd. Much more crowded that HAL. That also means longer waits for tenders. We had priority for tendering because of our Elite status but it took most of the morning before they announced "open tenders" on Princess. That's not so on the small Pacific Princess but the rest of the Princess fleet are big ships with big crowds.

 

Debarkation took all morning when we returned to LA on our Emerald Princess cruise. Princess doesn't do room service on debarkation day and wants you to vacate your room early. We like being able to get room service on that day and not have our schedule driven by an arbitrary time to leave the cabin. We like HAL's flexibility in that regard.

[twodjs]

Thanks DeepWaterMariner for your response about the food comparison. Sorry to read that Princess has not kept up with the times. We had the same experience on NCL - one choice - take it or starve in the main dining room - we don't eat fish. We end up going to the buffet - at least more than one choice. Why don't cruise lines appreciate that we pay as much as the next cruiser who inhales steak and lobster - give us equal creative options or we will not support them with our money! HAL rocks! OK, down off my soapbox.

[Tatka]

We only have 2 HAL cruises and 6 Princess cruises.

We find that overall Princess is more consistent product with better maintained ships (HAL has some older ships with various problems) and better available of food.

On our cruises we had nice entertainment on both lines, none of which is the best in industry.

We did like HALs cabins better including bedding and size.

Some Princess ships do not have inside pools which is a minus if you are sailing in colder climate.

I am not particularly concerned about pax ages, but atmosphere on Princess ships are more lively.

In terms of service, maybe our luck, we did get more consistent service on Princess.

 

We haven't tried Eurodam or Koningsdam classes, so cannot comment on them

 

As much as we loved Royal class of Princess, new pools setup is a downgrade from Grand/Caribbean class. Four pool areas were perfect.

[ericfromsandiego]

At Christmas 2015 I took the Crown Princess from LA to Mexico. At Thanksgiving of 2016 I took the Westerdam from San Diego to Mexico. Same route with different ships. To me, there was no comparison. Westerdam was better hands down. My reasons:

 

1. Westerdam has big seaview deck with pool and sail away parties including outdoor barbeque leaving Cabo. One of my favorite places on ship. Princess had very small aft pool deck with no activities there.

 

2. Westerdam had two story MDR with wrap-around windows in back of ship. Princess had three dining rooms in the bowels of the ship with low ceilings and few seats near windows. On the Westerdam, if you had anytime dining, they give you a blinker to let you know when your table was ready and you could go to the Explorers Lounge to wait. On Princess, you just had to stand in line or come back later. There were no lounges near the dining rooms.

 

3. Westerdam had Crows Nest (front observation deck) with coffee bar. Princess did not have front observation deck.

 

4. Buffet on Lido deck was way below that of Westerdam in quality. Nothing freshly prepared, everything in steam trays, no eggs benedict or omelette station in the morning, no salad station with custom prepared salads. Princess buffet reminded me of Hometown Buffet on land.

 

5. No America's Test Kitchen cooking demonstrations on Princess.

 

6. Cabin was much better on Westerdam. Bigger, with sofa, more useful closet and bigger shower in bathroom. Shower curtain in Princess tended to cling to you because shower was so small.

 

7. Performances in theater on Princess much more crowded. One time saw passengers come to blows over saved seats for the 10 pm show. Late show on Westerdam had plenty of available seats right up to start time.

 

8. Westerdam had roof over central pool. Princess was open. It is fairly cold first two and last two days out to and from LA and San Diego especially in November and December.

 

9. On Princess, video screen over pool was annoying if you weren't interested on what was playing. One afternoon there was a football game playing loudly all afternoon which I had no interest in.

 

10. On Princess, the coffee bar is in the lobby. It is always crowded and there is no where to sit. There are a lot of activities in the lobby. Coffee bar on Westerdam is in the Crows Nest.

 

My preference for the Westerdam (and Holland America) had mostly to do with the layout of the ship. The service and food in MDR and speciality restaurants was comparable. Shows in main theater were comparable. Cabin service was comparable. Shore Excursions were comparable. Princess had a very good library.

[Tatka]

Well.. there are four pools on Crown, so there is always quiet space

[Hlitner]

At Christmas 2015 I took the Crown Princess from LA to Mexico. At Thanksgiving of 2016 I took the Westerdam from San Diego to Mexico. Same route with different ships. To me, there was no comparison. Westerdam was better hands down. My reasons:

 

1. Westerdam has big seaview deck with pool and sail away parties including outdoor barbeque leaving Cabo. One of my favorite places on ship. Princess had very small aft pool deck with no activities there.

 

2. Westerdam had two story MDR with wrap-around windows in back of ship. Princess had three dining rooms in the bowels of the ship with low ceilings and few seats near windows. On the Westerdam, if you had anytime dining, they give you a blinker to let you know when your table was ready and you could go to the Explorers Lounge to wait. On Princess, you just had to stand in line or come back later. There were no lounges near the dining rooms.

 

3. Westerdam had Crows Nest (front observation deck) with coffee bar. Princess did not have front observation deck.

 

4. Buffet on Lido deck was way below that of Westerdam in quality. Nothing freshly prepared, everything in steam trays, no eggs benedict or omelette station in the morning, no salad station with custom prepared salads. Princess buffet reminded me of Hometown Buffet on land.

 

5. No America's Test Kitchen cooking demonstrations on Princess.

 

6. Cabin was much better on Westerdam. Bigger, with sofa, more useful closet and bigger shower in bathroom. Shower curtain in Princess tended to cling to you because shower was so small.

 

7. Performances in theater on Princess much more crowded. One time saw passengers come to blows over saved seats for the 10 pm show. Late show on Westerdam had plenty of available seats right up to start time.

 

8. Westerdam had roof over central pool. Princess was open. It is fairly cold first two and last two days out to and from LA and San Diego especially in November and December.

 

9. On Princess, video screen over pool was annoying if you weren't interested on what was playing. One afternoon there was a football game playing loudly all afternoon which I had no interest in.

 

10. On Princess, the coffee bar is in the lobby. It is always crowded and there is no where to sit. There are a lot of activities in the lobby. Coffee bar on Westerdam is in the Crows Nest.

 

My preference for the Westerdam (and Holland America) had mostly to do with the layout of the ship. The service and food in MDR and speciality restaurants was comparable. Shows in main theater were comparable. Cabin service was comparable. Shore Excursions were comparable. Princess had a very good library.

 

We note that you are talking about a Princess cruise from 2 years ago...and much has changed (on both Princess and HAL since that time). For example, there are no more deck BBQs on HAL. You are right about the physical design of the Crown (and most Princess ships). We miss having a bar with a view like the Crows Nest...although apparently now HAL is tampering with the Crow's Nest...so we shall have to see about the future. As to libraries, apparently HAL has eliminated them on their newest ships and likely on future builds. And the libraries on the other ships no longer has librarians and apparently is not being updated with new books.

 

We totally disagree about the production shows. HAL has adopted a Karaoke style show (all the music and some singing tracks are prerecorded) while Princess continues to use a 7 piece orchestra (including woodwinds and brass). Live music adds something to any show which is why you will always find a live orchestra at Broadway and West End Productions. We do think that the singers and dancers are comparable on both lines

 

As to Lido buffets, Princess has really upgraded their offerings in the past 2 years (while HAL and some other lines have been cutting back). In my comparison I was careful to talk about the new Princess Royal Class Horizon Courts (Lido Buffets) which we think are the best we have ever seen (and we have cruised on over 60 different ships). I am not sure if Princess intends to fully upgrade their Grand Class buffets to equal the Royal Class standard. As to HAL changes, if you had cruised HAL 2 years ago you would have found a nice sandwich station in the Lido (at lunch) where a staffer would make a sandwich to your specifications. This has now been replaced with premade sandwiches (such as a cold BLT on cold bread).

 

As to the Princess Horizon Courts, they do make omelets to order and will actually use real eggs (as compared to the pasteurized, homogenized boxed liquid goo used on HAL. There is an omelet station on the Crown but it works a bit different then you find on the Westerdam and we assume you simply missed it. Orders are taken at the counter and a cook (in a galley area seen through a window) is handed the order (on a slip of paper) and makes the omelet. Unlike on HAL, where one has to stand in a queue while a single cook makes 2 omelets at a time....Princess has multiple cooks working on large griddles (so they can make more then 2 at a time). And no reason to wait on line since you simply give them your order and can then go elsewhere and return in a few minutes to pick up your order.

 

You are correct that Princess does not have an Eggs Benedict Station (something that I have also criticized). But in the past 2 years HAL has substantially reduced the daily options in their eggs Benedict station. Another big change on HAL has been the revamping of the room service breakfast menu which substantially reduces the choices.

 

We often refer to the cruise industry as being dynamic (a nice way to say its always changing) and most recent changes on HAL have not been for the better. But we think that Princess has gone the other way and made many improvements (in the past 2-3 years). At one point we had totally stopped cruising Princess because of their cut-backs. But after hearing of some positive changes (about 3 years ago) we gave them another try and were pleased. We are now trying to do at least 1-2 Princess cruises (often longer voyages) a year along with some HAL cruises (and a few other lines).

 

Do we think that Princess is a better overall product then HAL? No! They are different with each line having their pros and cons. For us, variety is a good thing and fun. Our next few cruises are on Celebrity, Princess, MSC and HAL. And we will likely toss in a few other cruises with some higher end lines such as Azamara, Oceania, Crystal and perhaps Seabourn.

 

By the way, one shocker (for us) is that we booked a spring 2018 cruise on the Golden Princess because of its fantastic itinerary (Singapore to Vancouver)! Until recently we did not think that any other mass market line came close to HAL when it came to itineraries. But Princess has managed to change our mind with the Golden's ports. MSC has 10 more large ships on order (or optioned), Viking continues to expand, and we will soon have Richard Branson's new Virgin Cruise Lines entering the fray (with 3, 110,000 ships built within the next 5 years). The industry is exciting things are changing, competition is increasing, and its all so much fun :)

 

Hank

[Wehwalt]

Princess's International Cafe is something that could be usefully imitated on HAL.

[Hlitner]

Princess's International Cafe is something that could be usefully imitated on HAL.

 

Agree! When we are on Princess, DW and I spend a lot of morning time hanging out at the International Cafe. If I get up real early (I tend to wake up much earlier than DW) I simply go down to the IC, grab a fresh donut or pastry (baked right at the IC) or even a terrific egg sandwich and sip my decent Cappuccino (made with Illy Coffee Beans). DW will join me when she pleases and we can sit there for hours being entertained by People Watching or morning activities in the adjacent Atrium where they can attract 100+ for line dancing or perhaps have some kind of silly fun game. HAL does have their Explorations Cafe (also a place I go early in the morning) but that is not a social hub similar to the IC....and also does not have the food to the same extent as the IC (which is open 24 hours a day with food varying according to the time of day).

 

We would also explain that the Princess International Cafes are well staffed usually with multiple barristas and 1-2 pastry chefs (who also serve the food) as well as multiple waiter staff during the busier daytime hours. When DW and I "close the ship" at around 1am, we might also end our evening at the IC where we can sip some tea and enjoy a light snack before heading off to bed. Meanwhile, on HAL the Explorations place is closed at that time of the night.

 

Hank

[Cindy]

We also love the International Cafe, and think it blows HAL’s, Celebrity’s, and RCI’s version out of the water for selection and especially operating hours. I’m an early riser most of the time, and it drives me crazy to have to wait until the coffee bar opens for a “real” coffee!☕️

 

 

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[Hlitner]

We also love the International Cafe, and think it blows HAL’s, Celebrity’s, and RCI’s version out of the water for selection and especially operating hours. I’m an early riser most of the time, and it drives me crazy to have to wait until the coffee bar opens for a “real” coffee!☕️

 

 

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Yes, HAL does really limit hours of Explorations and even the Lido. On our August Voyage of the Vikings cruise I would often be up shortly afterr 6 am and find myself sitting in the library with a few other early folks....waiting for the coffee bar (Explorations) lady to open up around 7. This is not a problem on Princess....nor is a problem if one wants to have breakfast at 11 or a snack in the Lido at 9:30, 10:30 or even 11:30. On HAL one must adapt to the HAL scheduled open hours...but on Princess you can always find things open. Their philosophy is to give the cruiser lots of options be it activities, entertainment, food service hours, etc.

 

Hank

[Tatka]

We sailed on Veendam last year. While we enjoyed our cruise overall a lot we were surprised by limitations.

Evening buffet was from 5:00 till 8:30, and then was reopening at 10:30 pm which was too late for us. Pools were opened only till 9pm.

[iancal]

Our impression is that the difference in food services/venues between HAL and Princess is that the Princess hours of operation are geared to customers.

 

HAL's hours of operation appear to be very much geared to HAL.

[DeepWaterMariner]

Another big change on HAL has been the revamping of the room service breakfast menu which substantially reduces the choices.

 

True, but the HAL room service menu still has more option than the Princess room service menu for breakfast. This comparison is pretty much meaningless because both lines accept write in requests. We have found that we pretty much get what we ask for on either Princess or HAL room service breakfast by writing it in. The big difference in room service between the two is that HAL allows you to order off the dinner menu during the dining room hours for dinner and Princess doesn't. Its an option that comes in handy after a long day of touring or on a long cruise where you want a night off from the restaurants.

[iancal]

Yes, but many people are not interested in room service. All we want from room service is coffee in the AM. Nor could we care less about room service on the last day. These are of no consequence to us.

 

We would much prefer dining venues with customer friendly hours. I believe that IF HAL is truly after an expanded target demographic they will have to change their hours of operation to meet customer demands.

[Hlitner]

There are some folks that love room service. We recently met some cruisers that eat nearly all their meals in the cabin. On the other hand, DW and I might sometimes order breakfast room service (perhaps 1 out of 25 days). But in far more then 1000 cruise days we have never ordered room service lunch or dinner. I guess its one of those different strokes kind of things, but we prefer to be out and about and socializing with other passengers. It is another reason why we seldom book suites. We once calculated that we spend less than 3 waking hours a day (on average) in our cabin. The cost difference from a normal cabin to a large suite would often be hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars per day for the waking hours we can enjoy the suite. On the other hand, if money were not a consideration we would always opt for the biggest suite on any ship :).

 

Hank

[iancal]

We have done mini suites on Princess but we find HAL's suite pricing does not provide good value given when compared to to the real estate. Neptune suites even more so especially since their amenites really do not have much monetary value compared to the price. Upsellis different. Intangible Neptune amenities offer zero enhanced value to us.