Carnival Triumph fails latest CDC sanitary inspection

[Keith1010]

The ship isn't the first one to fail a test and won't be the last.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

Keith

[Stateroom_Sailor]

I would cancel, irregardless. Carnival is building a reputation for being careless on the placement hand sanitizers, or not restocking them. Not a huge deal on a 4 day cruise, but on a 10 day+, expect to get sick! Mix that with sanitation concerns, you find better options out there.

[chengkp75]

Hi Chief, so what are the implications for the ship and the crew and (just as important) passengers? It seems like some folks are concerned about their health safety on upcoming Triumph cruises.

 

The implications for the ship is that there will be, and most likely has been a second inspection to see what changes have been made. Typically these re-inspections are within 60-90 days.

 

For the crew, the senior management needs to be shaken up, whether through reprimands, personal improvement plans, or dismissal for a failure to perpetuate the proper culture of training and discipline onboard. The crew needs to be re-trained, extensively, to make the proper protocols second nature. One reason the USPH inspectors require that the inspection be done during a meal service onboard is to see if, under the strain of meal service and many times turn-around day, whether the crew's protocols slip. The crew needs to know what their specific responsibilities are under the VSP (maintaining chill rooms to proper temp, dismantling and cleaning dishwashers twice daily, servicing back flow preventers on a regular schedule, etc), and know it on an instant's notice, and more importantly, follow those responsibilities daily without conscious thought.

 

For passenger health, I would say there is no serious threat to their health. Nothing was found spoiled. One dairy box was out of temperature (likely as noted that someone was leaving the door open), and many foods were found in this box above the safe temperature limit, but I can bet that in nearly everyone's home fridge (mine included), I could find a few items that are out of range due to poor circulation (the packed fridge scenario), but you don't get sick from these, and in your home, the items are most likely kept for a longer period than the ship, which turns over product very quickly.

 

A USPH inspection is a snapshot of operations at that moment. Yes, there are some systemic problems that show a consistent poor application of procedures, but that dairy box may have been at the proper temperature for the last 90+ days, I can't say, and neither can the inspectors.

 

Had the inspectors felt there was an imminent danger to public health on the ship, they would have precluded boarding, and made the ship do corrective actions at the time. They didn't.

 

My feeling, from reading the report, is that the inspectors got the "bulls**t" your way out of an explanation from the crew, and reacted accordingly. My experience is that if you are completely honest with these men and women, do your best to correct what is wrong at the time, and perhaps even point out a few areas of problems that the inspectors may not have seen or gotten to yet, it goes a long way towards building mutual respect. I've seen virtually all of these non-conformities in reports over the years, on many ships that haven't failed inspections. Some of it may be the repetetive nature of the problems (more than one or two dishwashers), or as I say the crew's attitude, that resulted in the poor score.

 

Yes, this is serious. Yes, there will be disciplinary actions taken. Yes, there will most likely be an inspection/training team from corporate riding the ship for a few weeks after the inspection. However, even the USPH inspectors will tell you that they would prefer to eat on cruise ships, even ones with poor scores, over 90% of shore restaurants, with regards to food safety, and many of these folk were former big city (quite a lot from NYC) health inspectors.

[idraconis]

On the CDCs web your can check the score of any ship they inspect. Each ship is inspected twice a year, one announce and one can happen at anytime. Score of 86 and above is passing 85 and below a fail. Last inspection Triumph received a 78. The first time the ship failed in 32 inspections. You can look up the full report of what the CDC found and get facts.

[chengkp75]

On the CDCs web your can check the score of any ship they inspect. Each ship is inspected twice a year, one announce and one can happen at anytime. Score of 86 and above is passing 85 and below a fail. Last inspection Triumph received a 78. The first time the ship failed in 32 inspections. You can look up the full report of what the CDC found and get facts.

 

Actually, the goal is to get two inspections a year, but this doesn't always happen. And, neither inspection is "announced".

[Rh2458]

I've sailed Triumph 3 times, the last time being in September 2017... The ship was spotless... Don't sweat this...

Our experience as well. If she was a 7 night cruise we'd sail on her again without hesitation. We really enjoyed the staff, etc.

[BlerkOne]

Washing hands with soap and warm water is still the most effective way to reduce germs and viruses. Normal hand sanitizers are ineffective against norovirus and it is foolish to depend on them as much as some people do.

 

You won't find Carnival on the CDC list of cruise lines with Noro outbreaks in 2017. One could make a case that use of hand sanitizers leads to an increase in cases of Noro.

 

I wouldn't consider cancelling based on Internet hearsay by anonymous, dubious sources.

[chengkp75]

 

I wouldn't consider cancelling based on Internet hearsay by anonymous, dubious sources.

 

Not sure what you're referring to as "hearsay" by "dubious sources". The main thrust of this thread is based on a factual report on the CDC website of a failed USPH inspection, which you can read for yourself, as well as Carnival's corrective action report.

[jimbo5544]

The implications for the ship is that there will be, and most likely has been a second inspection to see what changes have been made. Typically these re-inspections are within 60-90 days.

 

 

 

For the crew, the senior management needs to be shaken up, whether through reprimands, personal improvement plans, or dismissal for a failure to perpetuate the proper culture of training and discipline onboard. The crew needs to be re-trained, extensively, to make the proper protocols second nature. One reason the USPH inspectors require that the inspection be done during a meal service onboard is to see if, under the strain of meal service and many times turn-around day, whether the crew's protocols slip. The crew needs to know what their specific responsibilities are under the VSP (maintaining chill rooms to proper temp, dismantling and cleaning dishwashers twice daily, servicing back flow preventers on a regular schedule, etc), and know it on an instant's notice, and more importantly, follow those responsibilities daily without conscious thought.

 

 

 

For passenger health, I would say there is no serious threat to their health. Nothing was found spoiled. One dairy box was out of temperature (likely as noted that someone was leaving the door open), and many foods were found in this box above the safe temperature limit, but I can bet that in nearly everyone's home fridge (mine included), I could find a few items that are out of range due to poor circulation (the packed fridge scenario), but you don't get sick from these, and in your home, the items are most likely kept for a longer period than the ship, which turns over product very quickly.

 

 

 

A USPH inspection is a snapshot of operations at that moment. Yes, there are some systemic problems that show a consistent poor application of procedures, but that dairy box may have been at the proper temperature for the last 90+ days, I can't say, and neither can the inspectors.

 

 

 

Had the inspectors felt there was an imminent danger to public health on the ship, they would have precluded boarding, and made the ship do corrective actions at the time. They didn't.

 

 

 

My feeling, from reading the report, is that the inspectors got the "bulls**t" your way out of an explanation from the crew, and reacted accordingly. My experience is that if you are completely honest with these men and women, do your best to correct what is wrong at the time, and perhaps even point out a few areas of problems that the inspectors may not have seen or gotten to yet, it goes a long way towards building mutual respect. I've seen virtually all of these non-conformities in reports over the years, on many ships that haven't failed inspections. Some of it may be the repetetive nature of the problems (more than one or two dishwashers), or as I say the crew's attitude, that resulted in the poor score.

 

 

 

Yes, this is serious. Yes, there will be disciplinary actions taken. Yes, there will most likely be an inspection/training team from corporate riding the ship for a few weeks after the inspection. However, even the USPH inspectors will tell you that they would prefer to eat on cruise ships, even ones with poor scores, over 90% of shore restaurants, with regards to food safety, and many of these folk were former big city (quite a lot from NYC) health inspectors.

 

 

 

Nice post, as usual, thanks for your expertise.

 

 

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[Thorncroft]

Washing hands with soap and warm water is still the most effective way to reduce germs and viruses. Normal hand sanitizers are ineffective against norovirus and it is foolish to depend on them as much as some people do.

 

You won't find Carnival on the CDC list of cruise lines with Noro outbreaks in 2017. One could make a case that use of hand sanitizers leads to an increase in cases of Noro.

 

I wouldn't consider cancelling based on Internet hearsay by anonymous, dubious sources.

Always someone commenting from the church of anti hand sanitizer. It's better than nothing if there aren't other options. I sometimes wash with straight rubbing alcohol if there's no soap and water available. You use what's available and do what you gotta do.

[Rh2458]

Originally posted by BlerkOne Washing hands with soap and warm water is still the most effective way to reduce germs and viruses. Normal hand sanitizers are ineffective against norovirus and it is foolish to depend on them as much as some people do.

 

You won't find Carnival on the CDC list of cruise lines with Noro outbreaks in 2017. One could make a case that use of hand sanitizers leads to an increase in cases of Noro.

 

I wouldn't consider cancelling based on Internet hearsay by anonymous, dubious sources.

 

Always someone commenting from the church of anti hand sanitizer. It's better than nothing if there aren't other options. I sometimes wash with straight rubbing alcohol if there's no soap and water available. You use what's available and do what you gotta do.

Is it really? What's your thoughts that it may actually increase the incidents of Noro outbreaks? I personally find it quite interesting. I know I have read some things recently to suggest that using the antibacterial stuff nearly isn't as effective as people think and they rely too heavily on it when they simply should be just washing their hands.

[Thorncroft]

Originally posted by BlerkOne Washing hands with soap and warm water is still the most effective way to reduce germs and viruses. Normal hand sanitizers are ineffective against norovirus and it is foolish to depend on them as much as some people do.

 

You won't find Carnival on the CDC list of cruise lines with Noro outbreaks in 2017. One could make a case that use of hand sanitizers leads to an increase in cases of Noro.

 

I wouldn't consider cancelling based on Internet hearsay by anonymous, dubious sources.

 

 

Is it really? What's your thoughts that it may actually increase the incidents of Noro outbreaks? I personally find it quite interesting. I know I have read some things recently to suggest that using the antibacterial stuff nearly isn't as effective as people think and they rely too heavily on it when they simply should be just washing their hands.

If you can wash your hands, that's the best, but you may not always be located where you're able to wash your hands with soap and water. I'm pretty sure that hand sanitizer, for all it's shortcomings and detractors, is probably better than nothing.

[joepeka]

If you can wash your hands, that's the best, but you may not always be located where you're able to wash your hands with soap and water. I'm pretty sure that hand sanitizer, for all it's shortcomings and detractors, is probably better than nothing.

The CDC seems to agree (section titled "What should you do if you don't have soap and clean running water"):

 

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/when-how-handwashing.html

[BlerkOne]

Not sure what you're referring to as "hearsay" by "dubious sources". The main thrust of this thread is based on a factual report on the CDC website of a failed USPH inspection, which you can read for yourself, as well as Carnival's corrective action report.

 

I think it is safe to say that the deficiencies found months ago have been corrected and are a non-issue today. I'm not quite sure why this has suddenly become news again.

[Thorncroft]

I think it is safe to say that the deficiencies found months ago have been corrected and are a non-issue today. I'm not quite sure why this has suddenly become news again.

Isn't this the second failure for this ship, this year? That's pretty news worthy.

[Rh2458]

The CDC seems to agree (section titled "What should you do if you don't have soap and clean running water"):

 

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/when-how-handwashing.html

There are plenty of places to wash your hands on a cruise ship. My issue is that people are using the hand sanitizer in place of washing hands.

[BlerkOne]

If you can wash your hands, that's the best, but you may not always be located where you're able to wash your hands with soap and water. I'm pretty sure that hand sanitizer, for all it's shortcomings and detractors, is probably better than nothing.

 

It may be better than nothing (so might spit which has some antibacterial properties), but too many believe it has magical properties that it doesn't. Some other cruise lines that push hand sanitizers have more incidents of Noro than Carnival.

[jimbo5544]

Always someone commenting from the church of anti hand sanitizer. It's better than nothing if there aren't other options. I sometimes wash with straight rubbing alcohol if there's no soap and water available. You use what's available and do what you gotta do.

 

 

 

While I wont denigrate the value of washing hands or the CDC, that said, I have heard the value of hand sanitizer is minimal (very much so). I heard you wash with Jameson as well, but then lick your hands dry... that true?

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

Isn't this the second failure for this ship, this year? That's pretty news worthy.

 

 

 

Where did you see that?

 

 

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[joepeka]

There are plenty of places to wash your hands on a cruise ship. My issue is that people are using the hand sanitizer in place of washing hands.

Agree. Just trying to support the other poster's notion that hand sanitizer can be used in the absence of the ability to use soap and water..... which on a cruise ship should not be an issue.

[Thorncroft]

Where did you see that?

 

 

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Is this still the same failing grade from months ago or a new one? It seems to have taken the current news cycle by storm. I assumed it was another failing grade. LOL

[jimbo5544]

Is this still the same failing grade from months ago or a new one? It seems to have taken the current news cycle by storm. I assumed it was another failing grade. LOL

 

 

 

Don't know, that is why I asked. I would be SHOCKED to have 2 in a year. The rag that some were quoting is nothing in my humble opinion

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Is this still the same failing grade from months ago or a new one? It seems to have taken the current news cycle by storm. I assumed it was another failing grade. LOL

 

This failing grade was from an inspection in November. Previously, the Triumph had a score of 93 in June.

[jimbo5544]

This failing grade was from an inspection in November. Previously, the Triumph had a score of 93 in June.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

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[BlerkOne]

Isn't this the second failure for this ship, this year? That's pretty news worthy.

 

What year are you in? This is only Jan 6! ;p