Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[grapau27]

The only way is to include it in the cruise price.

I received a P&O mail out today and what stood out was the massive amount of £ of obc being offered.

I suggested to P&O when they contacted me after my email to them that some of the obc budget could be used to pay for gratuitys included in the cruise price.

[Expat Cruise]

We have just got back from Ventura today too. I really struggled with whether to leave the recommended service charge in place and eventually made my mind up to remove it on Saturday (the penultimate full day). I completed the form and did not subsequently receive the standard letter to the cabin (I can very well understand your fury).

 

I wrote out very full comments on the form about why I had opted out, making very clear too that it had nothing to do with the service received which was 10 out of 10. The next day I did however receive the 'insightful' email spotlighting the backgrounds of individual staff.

 

It did certainly appear that a very large number of people opted out of standard service charges judging by the long lines at Reception and those walking away with forms to complete. Shame that it has come to this but changing times.

 

I'm sorry but I really do not understand why the company believes they have any right to know why the choice was made to opt out of these fees? Why do guest believe they need a justifiable reason to opt out, it is a choice that the guest makes and for anyone to question personal choices is just wrong.

 

But it is not about right and wrong... it is about shaming guest into paying these fees, the letters are 100% just a strong arm weapon from management. If I was a guest on this ship and got one of these letters I would return it to the Captain in public at the Captains meet and greet,/photo opt, etc. And yes maybe he would be insulted, but the company is insulting the guests on the ship.

[Expat Cruise]

Don’t understand the relevance for P&O at all. Who thinks they are trying to solve poverty in a country.

 

You are giving a tip to an individual for the work he/she has done for you. Just as I do for the hairdresser, waitress and taxi driver.

 

Posts like this are just muddying the water. Irrelevant.

 

Not sure if this poster has been on P&O as the staff are mainly from India. Which is in itself irrelevant.

 

The thread is about leaving the auto tip on or taking it off. As I am going to tip anyway I leave it on as it is easier.

 

 

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Correct it is about the surcharging of guest, claiming it to be automatic gratuities. It is a surcharge. The line is the one circulating a hope and dreams video, to play on the passengers. They are the one who is trying to get passengers to believe that by paying these fees the passengers are helping these poor families in poverty countries.

 

The post is a direct answer to that and therefore 100% on target to the thread. You can attack the opinions here you cannot attack facts. The simple fact is the cruise line is doing everything short of physical abuse of passengers to keep these fees in place.

[sussex blue]

I'm sorry but I really do not understand why the company believes they have any right to know why the choice was made to opt out of these fees? Why do guest believe they need a justifiable reason to opt out, it is a choice that the guest makes and for anyone to question personal choices is just wrong.

 

But it is not about right and wrong... it is about shaming guest into paying these fees, the letters are 100% just a strong arm weapon from management. If I was a guest on this ship and got one of these letters I would return it to the Captain in public at the Captains meet and greet,/photo opt, etc. And yes maybe he would be insulted, but the company is insulting the guests on the ship.

 

On the contrary, I wanted P&O to know why I had opted out and also to make it clear that it nothing to do with the standard of service from individual members of staff. Completing a form, which I agree should be optional, is I think a wholly appropriate way of doing so. Sending out a shaming letter which can be viewed by fellow passengers (and cabin stewards) certainly isn't.

 

I also don't believe that making a scene with shipboard staff of any level is the way to go about resolving this, out of respect to the staff involved and fellow guests.

[insanemagnet]

What is hilarious about this is it is all down to P&O's greed.

 

Four years ago the Service Charge was £3.95. Now it has increased by 75% to £7.

 

There is no way the staff have benefited from the whole of that increase (and by that I mean that although they will the whole of the £7 I bet they have experienced reductions in other remuneration). The beneficiary to this will have been P&O.

 

At £3.95 you had some people opting out, but at £7 they have crossed a line and it now seems the majority are. What a stupid thing to do, and there is no way to put it back in the box.

[insanemagnet]

What is hilarious about this is it is all down to P&O's greed.

 

Four years ago the Service Charge was £3.95. Now it has increased by 75% to £7.

 

There is no way the staff have benefited from the whole of that increase (and by that I mean that although they will the whole of the £7 I bet they have experienced reductions in other remuneration). The beneficiary to this will have been P&O.

 

At £3.95 you had some people opting out, but at £7 they have crossed a line and it now seems the majority are. What a stupid thing to do, and there is no way to put it back in the box.

[Expat Cruise]

On the contrary, I wanted P&O to know why I had opted out and also to make it clear that it nothing to do with the standard of service from individual members of staff. Completing a form, which I agree should be optional, is I think a wholly appropriate way of doing so. Sending out a shaming letter which can be viewed by fellow passengers (and cabin stewards) certainly isn't.

 

I also don't believe that making a scene with shipboard staff of any level is the way to go about resolving this, out of respect to the staff involved and fellow guests.

 

Neil, I respect your view and opinions like every ones opinions posting here. We basically agree upon the end just differ on how to get to that point.

 

If you any passenger wants to express opinions on a form I have no problem with that..... But no one should ever required or forced into explain the reasons behind this choice.

 

I have always been more offensive when I'm in a battle. And when the company crosses the line trying to embarrass and intimidate by sending public notices out that is over the line. So while I would never do anything to break the law I would have no problem turning the tables on a officer of the ship.

[wowzz]

Neil, I respect your view and opinions like every ones opinions posting here. We basically agree upon the end just differ on how to get to that point.

 

If you any passenger wants to express opinions on a form I have no problem with that..... But no one should ever required or forced into explain the reasons behind this choice.

 

I have always been more offensive when I'm in a battle. And when the company crosses the line trying to embarrass and intimidate by sending public notices out that is over the line. So while I would never do anything to break the law I would have no problem turning the tables on a officer of the ship.

I imagine that most of the ship's officers are as unhappy with this letter as you are. Whilst there is nothing wrong in letting them know how you feel, at the end if the day they are merely implementing instructions from HQ.

 

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[bee-ess]

Job to see how P&O will get out of this - as more opt out the price will have to increase faster and that will make even more opt out. They will hopefully be forced to add it to the cruise price but they don't want to do this. They are in a bit of a mess, the increase to £7 and that note was a big mistake for them.

[AnOnymously]

I am sure if all the captains complained, there would be change. They are not just paid employees like the cabin stewards, they are charged in law to have the ultimate responsibility for that ship, its crew and passengers.

[so,ton saint]

I am sure if all the captains complained, there would be change. They are not just paid employees like the cabin stewards, they are charged in law to have the ultimate responsibility for that ship, its crew and passengers.

HI

Have just flown home from a cruise from the Caribbean cruising with marella cruises ex thomson ship Discovery 1 sat having a meal with the welfare officer on a table with fellow guests, being an ex M.N person i did asked wages and what did TUI or the agency pay the crew she was quite open and said $600 for bedroom stewards and $700 a month for waiting staff all sent home.

[Todd the cavachon]

As first time cruisers due on Britannia in June, I have been following this thread. I notice that P&O have informed us by email of policy changes since we booked (alcohol fancy dress) however they have made no mention of the increase in auto grats. I have no problem paying tips for service and would have been happy with the situation but after following this thread now feel that I will probably remove the auto grats and tip in cash. I feel that I may feel dammed which ever way we do it..... embarrassed if others give envelopes and we continue with auto grats, or sent a letter on board saying that we are being mean if we take them off.

 

If we tip in cash (we are freedom dining) would the expectation be for us to both tip? in normal restaurants we leave a tip for the meal we both had, but as P&O expect tips for our service individually (both charged auto grats) would it be considered 'tight' to tip the waiter £5 for both of us?

[wowzz]

As first time cruisers due on Britannia in June, I have been following this thread. I notice that P&O have informed us by email of policy changes since we booked (alcohol fancy dress) however they have made no mention of the increase in auto grats. I have no problem paying tips for service and would have been happy with the situation but after following this thread now feel that I will probably remove the auto grats and tip in cash. I feel that I may feel dammed which ever way we do it..... embarrassed if others give envelopes and we continue with auto grats, or sent a letter on board saying that we are being mean if we take them off.

 

If we tip in cash (we are freedom dining) would the expectation be for us to both tip? in normal restaurants we leave a tip for the meal we both had, but as P&O expect tips for our service individually (both charged auto grats) would it be considered 'tight' to tip the waiter £5 for both of us?

The auto tips are £7 each, so if you give the wait staff £5 between you, will your steward get the other £9 ?

 

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[anniegb]

As first time cruisers due on Britannia in June, I have been following this thread. I notice that P&O have informed us by email of policy changes since we booked (alcohol fancy dress) however they have made no mention of the increase in auto grats. I have no problem paying tips for service and would have been happy with the situation but after following this thread now feel that I will probably remove the auto grats and tip in cash. I feel that I may feel dammed which ever way we do it..... embarrassed if others give envelopes and we continue with auto grats, or sent a letter on board saying that we are being mean if we take them off.

 

If we tip in cash (we are freedom dining) would the expectation be for us to both tip? in normal restaurants we leave a tip for the meal we both had, but as P&O expect tips for our service individually (both charged auto grats) would it be considered 'tight' to tip the waiter £5 for both of us?

 

You only have 1 meal per day??

 

Annie

[Todd the cavachon]

The auto tips are £7 each, so if you give the wait staff £5 between you, will your steward get the other £9 ?

I take it you feel this would be 'tight'

As i understand it the breakfast waiters and buffet staff are also tipped along with the cabin steward.

the auto grats is discretionary and the amount is also discretionary so i could if i wished increase the auto grats.

as the lowest denomination of 'notes' in sterling is £5 i would prefer to use notes so daily it would not be inconceivable to tip more than the total of the auto grats by the end of the cruise.

[davecttr]

HI

Have just flown home from a cruise from the Caribbean cruising with marella cruises ex thomson ship Discovery 1 sat having a meal with the welfare officer on a table with fellow guests, being an ex M.N person i did asked wages and what did TUI or the agency pay the crew she was quite open and said $600 for bedroom stewards and $700 a month for waiting staff all sent home.

That's interesting, I found some salary figures for the philippines, they are 2004 so only approximate.

 

the cabin stewards $600 a month is equivalent to 31,194 pesos. The average for a chambermaid in the philippines is 7,843 pesos so you can see why they are working on a ship The only jobs getting more than the chambermaids onboard salary were airline pilots on 98,575 per month. Engineers were 19,524 and accountants 17,997.etc etc

 

Marella employ a lot of Ukrainian staff, the average monthly salary in the Ukraine is $140 :eek::eek:

[wowzz]

I take it you feel this would be 'tight'

As i understand it the breakfast waiters and buffet staff are also tipped along with the cabin steward.

the auto grats is discretionary and the amount is also discretionary so i could if i wished increase the auto grats.

as the lowest denomination of 'notes' in sterling is £5 i would prefer to use notes so daily it would not be inconceivable to tip more than the total of the auto grats by the end of the cruise.

In fact I was not implying you were tight, as in your first post you mentioned that you had previously planned to leave the autotips in place. I was therefore just asking what you planned to do with the cash remaining from the £14, as that is the amount you were previously planning to give.

Personally, after reading this long thread, if I take another cruise with P&O [and that is a big 'if''], I would leave half of auto tips in place, and distribute the balance via the trusty old envelope system.

[mickrory]

Really opened a can of worms this thread. We cruise on many lines dependent on itinerary so American lines that we pay $14.50 USD (around £10) a day or MSC where we pay €10 a day we've never batted an eyelid. Time to have a re think on tip payments across the board.

[Expat Cruise]

That's interesting, I found some salary figures for the philippines, they are 2004 so only approximate.

 

the cabin stewards $600 a month is equivalent to 31,194 pesos. The average for a chambermaid in the philippines is 7,843 pesos so you can see why they are working on a ship The only jobs getting more than the chambermaids onboard salary were airline pilots on 98,575 per month. Engineers were 19,524 and accountants 17,997.etc etc

 

Marella employ a lot of Ukrainian staff, the average monthly salary in the Ukraine is $140 :eek::eek:

 

I would also suggest the following needs to be looked at for those working inside the Philippines. Most workers need to go to the major cities, far away from home, so from the small salary several other expenses. Travel to and from work 50 to 100 pesos a day, food 50 to 100 day, rented bed 1500 to 3000 pesos month.

 

So the maid here in the PI gets less than 3000 pesos a month after paying basic living. The cabin Steward gets over 31,000, free food, lodging and transportation.

 

Even if no one ever tip or no added money still 10 times what they would have working here in the Philippines.

[kalos]

What is hilarious about this is it is all down to P&O's greed.

 

Four years ago the Service Charge was £3.95. Now it has increased by 75% to £7.

 

There is no way the staff have benefited from the whole of that increase (and by that I mean that although they will the whole of the £7 I bet they have experienced reductions in other remuneration). The beneficiary to this will have been P&O.

 

At £3.95 you had some people opting out, but at £7 they have crossed a line and it now seems the majority are. What a stupid thing to do, and there is no way to put it back in the box.

 

That was our thinking and also what's to stop P&O telling staff that they had been marked down

so they could save the money? They have full control of your Auto payment.

 

So a reduction to £5 per day each, seemed the way forward on freedom dining .We were still part of their Auto service charge pay out system. The £48 and more went to staff we thought should be rewarded ..Not P&O doing the choosing .

We even filled in the feedback cards that were on the dining tables and one for our cabin steward, should which let the staff know they are scoring top marks .

 

Just had a thought.. When we lowered the service charge , if we had increased to say £10 a day ,would P&O have stuck an open letter on our door for the world to see ,saying thanks ?

Thought not !

Seeing as P&O have said sorry via a bunch of flowers ,this tells me we have done nothing wrong.

So from now on we shall do this every cruise until P&O come up with a better system and remove these begging letters .

As you said What a stupid thing to do, and there is no way to put it back in the box.

[artemis10]

The auto tips are £7 each, so if you give the wait staff £5 between you, will your steward get the other £9 ?

 

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Do you really think that the cabin stewards and waiters get the £7 per person per day from each passenger because I don’t. I very much doubt they get half of it, even with top marks.

[Brayman]

Do you really think that the cabin stewards and waiters get the £7 per person per day from each passenger because I don’t. I very much doubt they get half of it, even with top marks.

 

But unfortunately you have no evidence to back that thought up!

[Expat Cruise]

Do you really think that the cabin stewards and waiters get the £7 per person per day from each passenger because I don’t. I very much doubt they get half of it, even with top marks.

 

No

 

But look at the math. A cabin Steward handles 10 to 15 cabins per day. Average two passengers per cabin. The cabin pays 14 pounds day 210 pound a day 15 cabins.\

 

If half is cabin and half waitstaff than means the Steward collects 105 pound a day or over $145. Do you really think the cruise line is giving the steward 105 pounds a day or 3000 pounds a month in service fees? 3000 punds is $4200 dollors a month.

 

Lucky to get a total of 5 to 10 pounds a day or about 300 pounds a month.... $430 Extra dollars a month? The company is the one who is making a killing here, getting gust to cover payroll.

 

Or look at it this way and this is why they push so hard. About 1900 cabins if 2 passengers per cabin at 14 pounds a day almost 27,000 pounds a day... not a small amount.

[grapau27]

Correct it is about the surcharging of guest, claiming it to be automatic gratuities. It is a surcharge. The line is the one circulating a hope and dreams video, to play on the passengers. They are the one who is trying to get passengers to believe that by paying these fees the passengers are helping these poor families in poverty countries.

 

The post is a direct answer to that and therefore 100% on target to the thread. You can attack the opinions here you cannot attack facts. The simple fact is the cruise line is doing everything short of physical abuse of passengers to keep these fees in place.

For now, lock away your toothbrushes lol.

[insanemagnet]

Do you really think that the cabin stewards and waiters get the £7 per person per day from each passenger because I don’t. I very much doubt they get half of it, even with top marks.

Yes I do believe all of the money collected through the Service Charge is distributed to the staff.

 

However...

 

Staff getting £100 base pay and £50 bonus collected through a service charge; or double the service charge so staff get £100 bonus but reduce the base pay to £50.

 

In the second scenario I can still legitimately say "everything collected is paid to the staff" but P&O is the one is £50 in profit.

 

As for the person saying they would tip £5 between the waiters for the evening meal. Is that unreasonable?

 

That would value the food element of a meal for two at £50 (a 10% tip) as the wine includes a service charge in the price.

 

Meals in the buffet - I have never seen anyone tip in a similar circumstance on land in a canteen.

 

And as for the steward, although some people might leave a small tip for a chamber maid on land, it is pretty unusual.

 

This would lead me to the conclusion that the charge four years ago of £3.95 (£8 for a couple) was not unreasonable, but people are now questioning how on earth P&O value the services so £14 is a sensible tip amount.