Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[insanemagnet]

I think there a few barroom lawyers here so to be specific let’s look at how Carnival handles another possible charge namely fuel supplement.

 

(d) Cruise Fare does not include fuel supplement charges, security surcharges, or similar incidental surcharges (“surcharges”); Carnival reserves the right to impose or pass any of thesesurchargesandnorightofcancellationshallbeimplied. “Fuelsupplement”shallmean any additional charge to defray a portion of Carnival’s fuel costs. The amount of fuel supplements and government fees and taxes collected are subject to change. Carnival reserves the right to charge a fuel supplement of up to $9.00 USD, or its equivalent in foreign currency, per person per day, without prior notice, in the event that the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index) is greater than $70.00 USD per barrel of oil. Carnival may collect any fuel supplement in effect at the time

of sailing, even if the cruise fare has been paid in full.

 

Note as specifically stated this will not be added to the fare. So any additional charges are not likely to affect the advertised fare.

 

DAVID.

Carnival, not P&O.

[daiB]

So you have no facts, just beliefs.

 

 

 

You have no facts at all. All made up. The company says all the money goes to staff in all the rubbish that has been posted no one has shown that to be wrong.

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

You have no facts at all. All made up. The company says all the money goes to staff in all the rubbish that has been posted no one has shown that to be wrong.

 

 

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You are of course correct Dai we cannot disprove your assertions, and you would never let any inconvenient assumptions get in the way of your P&O baton twirling.;p

[daiB]

You are of course correct Dai we cannot disprove your assertions, and you would never let any inconvenient assumptions get in the way of your P&O baton twirling.;p

 

 

 

Then why make things up to put P&O down? So why bother cruising with them.

 

Sorry John but you are now just assuming and posting fantasy. If you don’t want to tip just don’t tip and stop trying to justify your actions.

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

Then why make things up to put P&O down? So why bother cruising with them.

 

Sorry John but you are now just assuming and posting fantasy. If you don’t want to tip just don’t tip and stop trying to justify your actions.

 

 

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Dai, I have made nothing up, I am just extrapolating from valid data. I accept it may not be accurate but until P&O provide believable data to support their assertion that all tips are given to staff, or they roll up gratuities into the price, then it's likely passengers will continue to speculate.

[cruisecrew1974]

I have proof to show 100% doesn't go to the intended crew. If someone does believe otherwise I accuse you to be P&O sponsored posters

 

A cabin steward on P&O has 19 cabins on average

 

A waiter and assistant waiter together looks after 20-24 guests at a time on average depending whether it's club or freedom.

Edited April 24, 2018 by cruisecrew1974

[NoFlyGuy]

What proof cruisecrew1974? You just posted some statistics that may or may not be correct and nothing to add as to who gets what.

[grapau27]

Dai, assuming that stewards receive 35% of the total, which was about the percentage when envelopes ruled the world, then IF everyone paid and IF stewards handle 19 cabins each, which is the current level. Then I estimate that with approx 8850 cabins there will be about 465 stewards and their share of the pot would be about £16m (35% of £45m) or about £34,000pa each,. Now when the reward scheme came in Dingle said that cabin stewards received about £1000 per month, which while lower than the UK minimum wage was a lot higher than they could earn in their home countries,

I know the auto tip has gone up a lot but nowhere near enough to treble their wages, and this is why some of us feel that those paying the auto tip are subsidising P&O, whilst those not paying it (and not tipping) are also being subsidised by those paying it.

Sounds a reasonable assumption.

 

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[daiB]

Sounds a reasonable assumption.

 

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But assumptions are not proof.

 

They just muddy the water.

 

 

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[NoFlyGuy]

It's quite incredible how the subject of tips gets so much response either here or on the facebook P&O pages.

 

I posted on facebook yesterday to state that I had send an email to P&O re any plans to include 'tips' in the cabin prices and to offer a drinks package . The answer to both was 'no'.

 

So, if like me, you were hoping for gratuities to be included in the cabin prices and/or for P&O to introduce a drinks package (different thread) - it's not going to happen any time soon.

[terrierjohn]

But assumptions are not proof.

 

They just muddy the water.

 

 

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Dai, if you have any firm evidence to contradict mine, or anyone else's assumptions, then please do supply it and provide us with hard evidence, and not just a glimpse of your cheerleaders knickers.

[daiB]

Dai, if you have any firm evidence to contradict mine, or anyone else's assumptions, then please do supply it and provide us with hard evidence, and not just a glimpse of your cheerleaders knickers.

 

 

 

You are now getting ridiculous. Name calling does you no favours. P&O say they give the money to the staff. You choose to disbelieve this for you own ends.

 

 

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[Millers]

Muddy waters, was a great blues singer and has nothing to do with this post

 

 

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[Covepointcruiser]

The American lines don't want compulsory service charges because it increases their tax liability.

 

The only American Lines are a. Opulent who cruise through the Great Lakes or down our rivers. Look at the prices for these voyages and you will see they are 3 or 4 times more expensive. The U.S. requires a certain minimum wage. On land it is much less than the minimum wage for a job without tipping.

[cruisecrew1974]

What proof cruisecrew1974? You just posted some statistics that may or may not be correct and nothing to add as to who gets what.

 

What proof do you want.

 

These 5 ranks get a different Pay structure

 

Cabin Steward & Butler's

Headwaiter

Waiter

Assistant Waiter

Junior Waiter

 

The pay structure is such that the above ranks have a

 

Guaranteed basic pay

 

Good Employee Bonus ( lost when crew get disciplinary warning)

 

CSQ Bonus ( lost when CSQ targets not achieved)

 

The crew get to keep cash tips which is equally shared between waiter & assistant Waiter. In Buffet the crew keep the tips to themselves

 

Only question is if crew loses the CSQ Bonus where does the money go.

 

Why from 2012 the above crew got a pay rise of around 5% but gratuities were increased by 126% and pay is variable so depending whether you achieve targets you could actually get less money

 

I'll give you detailed analysis later

[cruisecrew1974]

Just got some info from my friends in celebrity Cruises that they have a basic pay including gratuities of $1050.

 

So if they get the total prepaid tips above the basic salary they don't get the basic salary.

 

So if you are on celebrity cruises a clear reason to opt out and give cash tips to deserving staff.

 

If everyone opt out the staff get the basic salary.

 

Can't believe this loot happening in this modern world.

[insanemagnet]

But assumptions are not proof.

 

They just muddy the water.

 

 

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The point which is being made (which you are either ignoring or can't understand) is if the optional service charge has trippled in the last few years either -

 

- Staff remuneration has increased massively, so P&O have not benefited from the increase in the service charge; or

- Staff remuneration has remained the same by reducing base pay in proportion, and P&O has profited from having a reduced wage bill.

 

As you have all the facts from your inside knowledge as P&O's chief cheerleader, which is it?

[cruisecrew1974]

The point which is being made (which you are either ignoring or can't understand) is if the optional service charge has trippled in the last few years either -

 

- Staff remuneration has increased massively, so P&O have not benefited from the increase in the service charge; or

- Staff remuneration has remained the same by reducing base pay in proportion, and P&O has profited from having a reduced wage bill.

 

As you have all the facts from your inside knowledge as P&O's chief cheerleader, which is it?

 

Staff remuneration has remained same or decreased. Not increased.

 

You should ask P&O to prove that they are giving the money to staff. Because at present and in past P&O has not.

 

But the current opt out % has reached as high as 70%.

 

It's a big scam

 

These are facts not assumptions and I challenge P&O to deny this

[sussex blue]

What proof do you want.

 

These 5 ranks get a different Pay structure

 

Cabin Steward & Butler's

Headwaiter

Waiter

Assistant Waiter

Junior Waiter

 

The pay structure is such that the above ranks have a

 

Guaranteed basic pay

 

Good Employee Bonus ( lost when crew get disciplinary warning)

 

CSQ Bonus ( lost when CSQ targets not achieved)

 

The crew get to keep cash tips which is equally shared between waiter & assistant Waiter. In Buffet the crew keep the tips to themselves

 

Only question is if crew loses the CSQ Bonus where does the money go.

 

Why from 2012 the above crew got a pay rise of around 5% but gratuities were increased by 126% and pay is variable so depending whether you achieve targets you could actually get less money

 

I'll give you detailed analysis later

 

Thank you. You seem to be someone with actual knowledge of P&O pay and bonus arrangements, for which we should be grateful. Though I hope you are not going to compromise your current or future employment by posting on this forum.

 

What needs to be cleared up for my understanding are the pay and bonus arrangements for P&O specifically. Those for other cruise lines and brands will differ.

 

 

Rightly or wrongly one of the main reasons for many of us now removing auto gratuities is that we are fed up with seemingly subsidising for those fellow cruise passengers who also have done so. That said many of us do prefer to reward staff directly.

 

Would Cruisecrew1974 therefore be able to answer the following:

 

1) Provide a brief explanation of what is meant by CSQ bonus and whether all or part is held back if scores are not achieved?

 

2) P&O say that individual employees do not lose out if guests remove gratuities. It therefore seems to be logical that P&O would need to build up a fund for this event. Therefore do P&O hold back a proportion of gratuity contributions for this event? This may account for the steep rise in suggested contributions. Yes this is conjecture but I would welcome clarity.

 

3) Would crew actually prefer to receive tips directly from guests? This would seemingly mean crew would also continue to get their full payment and 'bonus' as well?

 

 

Thank you

[grapau27]

But assumptions are not proof.

 

They just muddy the water.

 

 

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The waters would be clear not muddy if gratuitys were included in the cruise price for everyone.

Someone said only 35% of people tipped on the old envelope method which leads me to believe a lot of people don't pay autograuities either therefore P&O could in theory just add £2pppn onto the cruise price and save themselves a lot of hassle then market themselves as gratuitys included.

 

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[sussex blue]

The point which is being made (which you are either ignoring or can't understand) is if the optional service charge has trippled in the last few years either -

 

- Staff remuneration has increased massively, so P&O have not benefited from the increase in the service charge; or

- Staff remuneration has remained the same by reducing base pay in proportion, and P&O has profited from having a reduced wage bill.

 

As you have all the facts from your inside knowledge as P&O's chief cheerleader, which is it?

 

It may be the truth is somewhere in the middle. My guess (and that is) is that the gratuity rates have gone up because a greater proportion of us now remove them. If staff are not to lose out then seemingly P&O would need to build up a fund to ensure they are fully remunerated. In this way P&O can still maintain the public statement that all gratuities go to staff, without knocking their bottom line profits.

 

Whilst I would much prefer that P&O moved to fares inclusive of non-refundable gratuities (though they couldn't be called this), we should realise too this would increase their tax liabilities and presumably other costs too.

 

 

I think most of us would agree that the current voluntary arrangements will not be sustainable in the longer term if, as it would seem, a much greater proportion of guests remove them.

[grapau27]

Muddy waters, was a great blues singer and has nothing to do with this post

 

 

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Tipping certainly gives P&O and lots on here 'The Blues'.

 

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[grapau27]

What proof do you want.

 

These 5 ranks get a different Pay structure

 

Cabin Steward & Butler's

Headwaiter

Waiter

Assistant Waiter

Junior Waiter

 

The pay structure is such that the above ranks have a

 

Guaranteed basic pay

 

Good Employee Bonus ( lost when crew get disciplinary warning)

 

CSQ Bonus ( lost when CSQ targets not achieved)

 

The crew get to keep cash tips which is equally shared between waiter & assistant Waiter. In Buffet the crew keep the tips to themselves

 

Only question is if crew loses the CSQ Bonus where does the money go.

 

Why from 2012 the above crew got a pay rise of around 5% but gratuities were increased by 126% and pay is variable so depending whether you achieve targets you could actually get less money

 

I'll give you detailed analysis later

That would be very interesting.

 

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[grapau27]

The point which is being made (which you are either ignoring or can't understand) is if the optional service charge has trippled in the last few years either -

 

- Staff remuneration has increased massively, so P&O have not benefited from the increase in the service charge; or

- Staff remuneration has remained the same by reducing base pay in proportion, and P&O has profited from having a reduced wage bill.

 

As you have all the facts from your inside knowledge as P&O's chief cheerleader, which is it?

You make very valid points

 

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[daiB]

The waters would be clear not muddy if gratuitys were included in the cruise price for everyone.

Someone said only 35% of people tipped on the old envelope method which leads me to believe a lot of people don't pay autograuities either therefore P&O could in theory just add £2pppn onto the cruise price and save themselves a lot of hassle then market themselves as gratuitys included.

 

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Sorry but here we have an example of made up statistics. No one has any idea of how many people tipped or did not tip.

 

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