Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[grapau27]

Dai, do give it a rest with your assumption, of which you have no proof, that those of us against the current way P&O operate their auto tip/service reward scheme are non tippers.

I may well soon become one, but only because I can see that those of us who always pay the auto tip are losing out to those that don't, because I doubt the recent increases are going to the staff, more likely they are to compensate P&O for the increase in passengers removing the auto tip.

We have made it plain that we are happy to see gratuities rolled up into the cruise fare, but for the above reasons we don't feel the current system is fair, and we think that removing the auto tip might, just might, make P&O agree with us.

Very sensible post.

 

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[majortom10]

There is a lot to be said that those in suites pay more pppn in gratuities than balcony and inside cabins. Why should a percentage of my gratuity go to butlers when I dont use one let those that have butlers pay extra gratuities. It works on most other cruise lines where there is a sliding scale of prices depending in what standard of cabin you are in.

[AnOnymously]

There is a lot to be said that those in suites pay more pppn in gratuities than balcony and inside cabins. Why should a percentage of my gratuity go to butlers when I dont use one let those that have butlers pay extra gratuities. It works on most other cruise lines where there is a sliding scale of prices depending in what standard of cabin you are in.

Sounds good to me.

[yuvraj]

There is a lot to be said that those in suites pay more pppn in gratuities than balcony and inside cabins. Why should a percentage of my gratuity go to butlers when I dont use one let those that have butlers pay extra gratuities. It works on most other cruise lines where there is a sliding scale of prices depending in what standard of cabin you are in.

 

I have never been in a suite on P&O but if I was and had the services of a butler, I would tip them individually irrespective of whether I paid the auto service charge. I suspect most suite guests would. Plus I was under the impression that the service charge for suite guests was higher.

 

Affordability should never be a reason for not paying tips as for some roles, tips is part of the remuneration. Where I differ from some people is that they have to earn it and it must always be discretionary.

[pisces14]

There is a lot to be said that those in suites pay more pppn in gratuities than balcony and inside cabins. Why should a percentage of my gratuity go to butlers when I dont use one let those that have butlers pay extra gratuities. It works on most other cruise lines where there is a sliding scale of prices depending in what standard of cabin you are in.

What I don't understand is why you are interested in P&O when you no longer cruise with them. Perhaps you should join in the debate on the Cunard forum if there is one.

[pisces14]

I have never been in a suite on P&O but if I was and had the services of a butler, I would tip them individually irrespective of whether I paid the auto service charge. I suspect most suite guests would. Plus I was under the impression that the service charge for suite guests was higher.

 

Affordability should never be a reason for not paying tips as for some roles, tips is part of the remuneration. Where I differ from some people is that they have to earn it and it must always be discretionary.

 

No the service charge is the same for suite passengers but I'm sure that like us, most suite passengers give an extra tip to the butler, other staff too.

[balf]

I would prefer it if P&O added a fixed service charge onto the cruise price but until then i will continue to pay the autotip and give extra cash tips too.

 

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Unfortunately if you do they won’t.

 

David

[daiB]

Unfortunately if you do they won’t.

 

David

Sorry David but even if there were 100 people watching this and all agreed with you and stopped auto tipping it would have no effect given there must be well over 500,000 cruisers per year use P&O.

 

In all a useless exercise apart from those who do not want to tip.

 

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[grapau27]

Unfortunately if you do they won’t.

 

David

I emailed them twice and received a phone call regarding including tips in the cruise price.

The lady who rang me indicated it was something they were considering.

We have always paid our gratuitys and more because i believe P&O and the crew prefer autogratuities.

 

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[terrierjohn]

Sorry David but even if there were 100 people watching this and all agreed with you and stopped auto tipping it would have no effect given there must be well over 500,000 cruisers per year use P&O.

 

In all a useless exercise apart from those who do not want to tip.

 

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Proves very little Dai since we have no idea just how many in total pay the auto tip, and how many of those who delete it then pay tips in cash, and we never will as long as P&O keep us in the dark.

[daiB]

Proves very little Dai since we have no idea just how many in total pay the auto tip, and how many of those who delete it then pay tips in cash, and we never will as long as P&O keep us in the dark.

John you are missing the point I am talking of the people who this thread may influence not who does or does not pay the auto tip.

 

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[dorsetlad]

Sorry David but even if there were 100 people watching this and all agreed with you and stopped auto tipping it would have no effect given there must be well over 500,000 cruisers per year use P&O.

 

In all a useless exercise apart from those who do not want to tip.

 

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I'm sorry Dai, as I normally agree with a lot that you say, but I think that this time you are getting carried away. You keep referring to people that keep this thread going as "those who do not want to tip" That is a terrible generalisation, and is probably hurtful to some. I ALWAYS remove the auto tip, but I ALWAYS give tips personally. That is my prerogative, so please do not continue to demonise people in this category.

[Eglesbrech]

There is a (very much shorter) tipping thread on Fred Olsen and someone made the interesting point that the crew, On Fred at least, prefer the auto tip as the money can be paid straight into their bank account, presumably back home.

 

 

Someone else pointed out that with the auto tip the money is paid in stages on longer cruises, at the changeover ports. Pando may or may not do the same. Presumably cash all comes in one lump at the end of the cruise to crew where passengers choose this payment method.

 

It set me thinking that If we all went back to cash tipping, which I was inclined to do as a protest, would this cause any issues in terms of the crew having to bank the cash, exchange it to a more convenient currency etc. The extra they get in cash (in addition to an auto tip) for exceptional service will probably be easily used up for day to day expenses but the auto tip means that the bulk will go straight into a bank and where it needs to go.

 

It made me think would I want to go back to getting my wages in a little brown envelope (some of you will be too young to remember this concept) or do I prefer BACS. I prefer BACS, unless of course it meant getting less money in total.

 

Adding service to the initial cruise payment would have the same result of course.

[yuvraj]

We have always paid our gratuitys and more because i believe P&O and the crew prefer autogratuities.

 

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That is a good point. I have been paying autogratuities because I also believed that the crew preferred it. My understanding is that many people weren't leaving tips so autogratuities was more beneficial and favoured by the crew when it was introduced.

 

Recently, I have been worried about fair distribution. Poor and declining service or variable service has also been a concern. So for the moment I have changed my opinion on this matter.

[grapau27]

I'm sorry Dai, as I normally agree with a lot that you say, but I think that this time you are getting carried away. You keep referring to people that keep this thread going as "those who do not want to tip" That is a terrible generalisation, and is probably hurtful to some. I ALWAYS remove the auto tip, but I ALWAYS give tips personally. That is my prerogative, so please do not continue to demonise people in this category.

I agree,i have my fair share of the posts here and always autotip and i am always cash generous tipping to the crew.

I'm sure lots of people won't tip or only in small amounts but TBH there is nothing i can do about other people thats why i advocate tips included in the price.

 

 

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[grapau27]

There is a (very much shorter) tipping thread on Fred Olsen and someone made the interesting point that the crew, On Fred at least, prefer the auto tip as the money can be paid straight into their bank account, presumably back home.

 

 

Someone else pointed out that with the auto tip the money is paid in stages on longer cruises, at the changeover ports. Pando may or may not do the same. Presumably cash all comes in one lump at the end of the cruise to crew where passengers choose this payment method.

 

It set me thinking that If we all went back to cash tipping, which I was inclined to do as a protest, would this cause any issues in terms of the crew having to bank the cash, exchange it to a more convenient currency etc. The extra they get in cash (in addition to an auto tip) for exceptional service will probably be easily used up for day to day expenses but the auto tip means that the bulk will go straight into a bank and where it needs to go.

 

It made me think would I want to go back to getting my wages in a little brown envelope (some of you will be too young to remember this concept) or do I prefer BACS. I prefer BACS, unless of course it meant getting less money in total.

 

Adding service to the initial cruise payment would have the same result of course.

Very interesting.

 

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[grapau27]

That is a good point. I have been paying autogratuities because I also believed that the crew preferred it. My understanding is that many people weren't leaving tips so autogratuities was more beneficial and favoured by the crew when it was introduced.

 

Recently, I have been worried about fair distribution. Poor and declining service or variable service has also been a concern. So for the moment I have changed my opinion on this matter.

I also agree with you thats why i emailed P&O twice about getting gratuitys included into the cruise price and a lady in customer service phoned me back and we had an interesting conversation.

 

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[daiB]

I'm sorry Dai, as I normally agree with a lot that you say, but I think that this time you are getting carried away. You keep referring to people that keep this thread going as "those who do not want to tip" That is a terrible generalisation, and is probably hurtful to some. I ALWAYS remove the auto tip, but I ALWAYS give tips personally. That is my prerogative, so please do not continue to demonise people in this category.

 

 

 

My post was not aimed at you or those like you but the members on here who have been against tipping and in particular auto tipping for a long time and jump on any tipping post and keep it going for ever and ever. You know who I mean. I am sorry if you have taken offence. Again it was not intended for you.

 

 

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[daiB]

There is a (very much shorter) tipping thread on Fred Olsen and someone made the interesting point that the crew, On Fred at least, prefer the auto tip as the money can be paid straight into their bank account, presumably back home.

 

 

 

 

 

Someone else pointed out that with the auto tip the money is paid in stages on longer cruises, at the changeover ports. Pando may or may not do the same. Presumably cash all comes in one lump at the end of the cruise to crew where passengers choose this payment method.

 

 

 

It set me thinking that If we all went back to cash tipping, which I was inclined to do as a protest, would this cause any issues in terms of the crew having to bank the cash, exchange it to a more convenient currency etc. The extra they get in cash (in addition to an auto tip) for exceptional service will probably be easily used up for day to day expenses but the auto tip means that the bulk will go straight into a bank and where it needs to go.

 

 

 

It made me think would I want to go back to getting my wages in a little brown envelope (some of you will be too young to remember this concept) or do I prefer BACS. I prefer BACS, unless of course it meant getting less money in total.

 

 

 

Adding service to the initial cruise payment would have the same result of course.

 

 

 

I remember the little brown envelopes. In fact one of my jobs when I worked on the railway was to sit on a Thursday and make up the pay packets for signalmen and others in the Blyth area of Northumberland. I then was taken by taxi to deliver the pay to the men in their boxes. Great job

 

 

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[blueboo]

I also agree with you thats why i emailed P&O twice about getting gratuitys included into the cruise price and a lady in customer service phoned me back and we had an interesting conversation.

 

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are you able to divulge that conversation at all ?

[terrierjohn]

My post was not aimed at you or those like you but the members on here who have been against tipping and in particular auto tipping for a long time and jump on any tipping post and keep it going for ever and ever. You know who I mean. I am sorry if you have taken offence. Again it was not intended for you.

 

 

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Dai, I have been a strong advocate on many tipping threads of incorporating gratuities into the base price. I have also taken the view recently that the increase in the auto tip charge probably results from an increase in those not paying it, thus disadvantaged those still paying it, something you seem unwilling to even consider.

But as yet I have not deleted the auto tip, however I am now seriously contemplating doing just that. My calculation of a £36000pa stewards wage if everyone paid the full rate, seems to support my view that the auto tip is inflated to cover non payers, and this is my major complaint with the current system.

I hope that sometime soon you might begin to comprehend what I am saying, but I have my doubts.

[daiB]

Dai, I have been a strong advocate on many tipping threads of incorporating gratuities into the base price. I have also taken the view recently that the increase in the auto tip charge probably results from an increase in those not paying it, thus disadvantaged those still paying it, something you seem unwilling to even consider.

 

But as yet I have not deleted the auto tip, however I am now seriously contemplating doing just that. My calculation of a £36000pa stewards wage if everyone paid the full rate, seems to support my view that the auto tip is inflated to cover non payers, and this is my major complaint with the current system.

 

I hope that sometime soon you might begin to comprehend what I am saying, but I have my doubts.

 

 

 

I have also said in the past put it in the price. However I cannot make my decisions based on assumptions and back of a fag packet calculations. We do not know the facts how many opt out, how many then tip in cash and how many just stiff the staff. We also don’t know how this compares to what happened before auto tipping. Do more people now pay nothing. I am still very concerned about those on freedom dining. I am sure when the staff have to serve in freedom they miss out.

 

For these reasons I will still pay the auto tip and give extra when I feel it is appropriate, which I have to say is most of the time.

 

 

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[Eglesbrech]

I remember the little brown envelopes. In fact one of my jobs when I worked on the railway was to sit on a Thursday and make up the pay packets for signalmen and others in the Blyth area of Northumberland. I then was taken by taxi to deliver the pay to the men in their boxes. Great job

 

 

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That would be a lovely drive in the summer months.

 

Thankfully I only ever had them for my Saturday job. Once I finished further education and started real work it was BACS and 15 minutes banking time a month as there were no holes in the wall back in the day and the banks closed early every day. How the word moves on.

[terrierjohn]

I have also said in the past put it in the price. However I cannot make my decisions based on assumptions and back of a fag packet calculations. We do not know the facts how many opt out, how many then tip in cash and how many just stiff the staff. We also don’t know how this compares to what happened before auto tipping. Do more people now pay nothing. I am still very concerned about those on freedom dining. I am sure when the staff have to serve in freedom they miss out.

 

For these reasons I will still pay the auto tip and give extra when I feel it is appropriate, which I have to say is most of the time.

 

 

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Not a fag packet Dai, as Ralph Ineson says in the Dacia adverts, You do the Math. £14 per day per cabin, stewards receive 35-40% of the auto tip and they service 19 cabins each. I doubt even you think that Stewards receive £36000pa in total, never mind as their element of the service reward scheme.

[daiB]

Not a fag packet Dai, as Ralph Ineson says in the Dacia adverts, You do the Math. £14 per day per cabin, stewards receive 35-40% of the auto tip and they service 19 cabins each. I doubt even you think that Stewards receive £36000pa in total, never mind as their element of the service reward scheme.

 

 

 

That no where near accurate as it takes no notice of those who do not pay or pay less. I hope you are not insinuating they get paid too much!!

 

Also does that mean on other cruise lines where the tips can be almost double that they get £72,000.

 

I think not.

 

Which is why I do not believe your sums.

 

 

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