Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[daiB]

Tipping certainly gives P&O and lots on here 'The Blues'.

 

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I don't get the Blues I just leave the auto tip on and get on with enjoying the cruise

 

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[Lucky TGO]

bizarre!

 

I agree.

Tony

[yuvraj]

 

Whilst I would much prefer that P&O moved to fares inclusive of non-refundable gratuities (though they couldn't be called this), we should realise too this would increase their tax liabilities and presumably other costs too.

 

 

I never quite understood the increase in tax liability. Surely tax is based on profit.

 

If service charge is mandatory then it is part of the fare and must be advertised as such. If not, then it cannot form part of staff's base remuneration. It can only be regarded as a variable bonus which will depend on the generosity of guests on a particular sailing and collective staff performance. If it is not mandatory then it is discretionary and nobody needs to lose sleep over whether other guests pay the service charge or give tips.

[cruisecrew1974]

P&O pays UK Tonnage Tax. So profits doesn't have any relation to tax they pay

[kalos]

 

If it is not mandatory then it is discretionary and nobody needs to lose sleep over whether other guests pay the service charge or give tips.

 

Spot on but .... sad to say some do.:rolleyes:

[terrierjohn]

"I often hear accusations that the cruise lines line their own pockets with the gratuities. I was assured that for P&O, all of the gratuity money goes to the staff, none goes to the company. However, if a staff member is on a disciplinary, then they don't get their gratuity. Out of curiosity I asked where that money goes, but was told he was not permitted to say, but repeated that it does not go to the company. I'm still curious as to where it goes."

Just re-reading this from the OP, it is interesting that the highlighted comment from P&O can of course be absolutely accurate, since the gratuity level will be below the full wage bill then P&O can honestly say it all goes to staff.

They specifically did not say that it all goes to staff as part of their bonus.

[cruisecrew1974]

 

Would Cruisecrew1974 therefore be able to answer the following:

 

1) Provide a brief explanation of what is meant by CSQ bonus and whether all or part is held back if scores are not achieved?

 

2) P&O say that individual employees do not lose out if guests remove gratuities. It therefore seems to be logical that P&O would need to build up a fund for this event. Therefore do P&O hold back a proportion of gratuity contributions for this event? This may account for the steep rise in suggested contributions. Yes this is conjecture but I would welcome clarity.

 

3) Would crew actually prefer to receive tips directly from guests? This would seemingly mean crew would also continue to get their full payment and 'bonus' as well?

 

 

Thank you

 

CSQ bonus is the bonus when the crew as a team (Restaurant staff) or individual ( Cabin Stewards) achieve the Customer Service Questionaire Targets. There have been times when the crew get 0 CSQ bonus for not achieving targets. CSQ bonus @100% is about 25% of max net pay a crew can achieve.This depends on what rank we are talking about but will be around that number.

Basic pay is about 60% of net pay

Good employee bonus is about 16% of net pay

[cruisecrew1974]

"I often hear accusations that the cruise lines line their own pockets with the gratuities. I was assured that for P&O, all of the gratuity money goes to the staff, none goes to the company. However, if a staff member is on a disciplinary, then they don't get their gratuity. Out of curiosity I asked where that money goes, but was told he was not permitted to say, but repeated that it does not go to the company. I'm still curious as to where it goes."

 

 

they will never say it but it adds up to P& O profits. The Pay structure is a big scam. It was supposed to benefit the crew but it benefited P&O the most.

[sussex blue]

Spot on but .... sad to say some do.:rolleyes:

 

It's not about losing sleep. Some of us are simply concerned about the welfare of crew members. Equitability comes into this too. P&O could be more open about this but obviously they are concerned about the consequences of doing so.

 

Fair play too to those who are continuing with the auto arrangements. That was exactly what I did until our last cruise. My own preference is to tip individually until I have more facts. I have the feeling in doing so that crew members are also benefiting more as a result.

[kalos]

It's not about losing sleep. Some of us are simply concerned about the welfare of crew members. Equitability comes into this too. P&O could be more open about this but obviously they are concerned about the consequences of doing so.

 

Fair play too to those who are continuing with the auto arrangements. That was exactly what I did until our last cruise. My own preference is to tip individually until I have more facts. I have the feeling in doing so that crew members are also benefiting more as a result.

 

When it comes to crew welfare I signed up years ago for my tax relief to be donated to a charity that helps crew that need help when away from home.

(I posted the name years ago on this site and got a slap on the wrist so don't ask)

 

Due to using freedom dining we pay an amount of this DSC and also like to tip in person as well knowing that the money is going to who we wanted it to.

After that I get on with my holiday knowing I have done my part when it comes to the frontline staff.

Just the same as people who pay the auto's or remove part/full in pay staff in person .

Like you we pay and we care.

What I do not do is second guess what the P&O management do with money collected as I can do little about it ...Hence I will not be losing sleep over this, some may, so what the poster put ...

If it is not mandatory then it is discretionary and nobody needs to lose sleep over whether other guests pay the service charge or give tips.

I think that is fair comment and those who choose not to pay is nothing to do with me.

 

Not a case of not caring .

Edited April 25, 2018 by kalos

[balf]

I don't get the Blues I just leave the auto tip on and get on with enjoying the cruise

 

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And that’s the whole problem, things won’t change while people continue to pay the tips on the present grosley unfair system even while they would prefer for them to added to the fare.

 

Stop paying them and inform P&O the reason for you doing so. Better than getting in to pointless arguments here that are obviously getting to you.

 

DAVID.

[balf]

I never quite understood the increase in tax liability. Surely tax is based on profit.

 

If service charge is mandatory then it is part of the fare and must be advertised as such. If not, then it cannot form part of staff's base remuneration. It can only be regarded as a variable bonus which will depend on the generosity of guests on a particular sailing and collective staff performance. If it is not mandatory then it is discretionary and nobody needs to lose sleep over whether other guests pay the service charge or give tips.

 

The ones who don’t pay probably get the best nights sleep.

 

David

[daiB]

And that’s the whole problem, things won’t change while people continue to pay the tips on the present grosley unfair system even while they would prefer for them to added to the fare.

 

Stop paying them and inform P&O the reason for you doing so. Better than getting in to pointless arguments here that are obviously getting to you.

 

DAVID.

Not getting to me at all as I don't believe most of the rubbish spouted on this thread. It's all about certain people who do not like tipping clutching at straws.

 

I most certainly will not stop auto tipping as it is what I want to do. I also give those who have served me well extra on top.

 

As mentioned before I enjoy my cruising with a very clear conscience.

 

 

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[majortom10]

Do what you personally want to do whether pay auto, pay in cash or not pay at all nothing to do with anyone else. But and its a big BUT when I asked P&O directly if a person does not receive high enough marks on the questionnaire we are asked to fill in at end of cruise or member of staff is under disciplinary so therefore do not get their share or a reduced rate from gratuities paid where does that money go P&Os silence was deafening so if they had nothing to hide why didnt they give a honest answer.

[grapau27]

Do what you personally want to do whether pay auto, pay in cash or not pay at all nothing to do with anyone else. But and its a big BUT when I asked P&O directly if a person does not receive high enough marks on the questionnaire we are asked to fill in at end of cruise or member of staff is under disciplinary so therefore do not get their share or a reduced rate from gratuities paid where does that money go P&Os silence was deafening so if they had nothing to hide why didnt they give a honest answer.

Indeed,easy for P&O to clarify.

 

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[insanemagnet]

 

2) P&O say that individual employees do not lose out if guests remove gratuities. It therefore seems to be logical that P&O would need to build up a fund for this event. Therefore do P&O hold back a proportion of gratuity contributions for this event?

 

There is a fund and it is where all the money collected from the service charge goes.

 

People assume the money they pay goes to their steward and their waiters. It doesn't.

 

It goes into a pool out of which the bonus is paid. So if someone doesn't pay the optional charge the stewards and waiters still receive a bonus.

 

The amount of the bonus is calculated by P&O based on their expectations of how many people are going to pay, so whether an individual person does or does not has no effect on the bonus.

[cruisecrew1974]

Do what you personally want to do whether pay auto, pay in cash or not pay at all nothing to do with anyone else. But and its a big BUT when I asked P&O directly if a person does not receive high enough marks on the questionnaire we are asked to fill in at end of cruise or member of staff is under disciplinary so therefore do not get their share or a reduced rate from gratuities paid where does that money go P&Os silence was deafening so if they had nothing to hide why didnt they give a honest answer.

 

This is it. P&O lies

[cruisecrew1974]

There is a fund and it is where all the money collected from the service charge goes.

 

People assume the money they pay goes to their steward and their waiters. It doesn't.

 

It goes into a pool out of which the bonus is paid. So if someone doesn't pay the optional charge the stewards and waiters still receive a bonus.

 

The amount of the bonus is calculated by P&O based on their expectations of how many people are going to pay, so whether an individual person does or does not has no effect on the bonus.

 

Possibly true. In that way P&O can still say that all money still goes to the crew but after 10 years.

[pisces14]

Originally posted by yuvraj

If it is not mandatory then it is discretionary and nobody needs to lose sleep over whether other guests pay the service charge or give tips

.

Originally posted by kalos Spot on but .... sad to say some do.

 

I'm beginning to think it's the people who DON'T pay gratuities who have sleepless nights about those of us who do pay them. Otherwise why are they continually posting on cruise forums justifying why they don't pay them. Not only that they try to bully those who do into doing the same.

I sleep very well because my conscience is clear.

[insanemagnet]

I'm beginning to think it's the people who DON'T pay gratuities who have sleepless nights about those of us who do pay them. Otherwise why are they continually posting on cruise forums justifying why they don't pay them. Not only that they try to bully those who do into doing the same.

 

I don't see many people trying to justify why they don't pay an optional charge, but an awful lot of people saying they do pay and trying to take the moral high ground.

 

Oh look here is one.

 

I sleep very well because my conscience is clear.

[daiB]

I don't see many people trying to justify why they don't pay an optional charge, but an awful lot of people saying they do pay and trying to take the moral high ground.

 

Oh look here is one.

 

 

 

Thats because we have the moral high ground. Clearly unlike you who have been against tipping for years. I will give you that you are consistent.

 

 

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[pisces14]

I don't see many people trying to justify why they don't pay an optional charge, but an awful lot of people saying they do pay and trying to take the moral high ground.

 

Oh look here is one.

 

Really!! Have you been reading this thread properly. Very few people have said they pay the auto-tips and many that used to have now been convinced to remove them.

Why does it bother you so much that I and a few others believe in paying the gratuities? You carry on doing what you want and I'll do the same.

[NoFlyGuy]

Each to their own. The question of gratuities always seems to cause heated debate.

 

The title of this thread specifically mentions the '40% increase' in auto gratuities in a short space of time and it is that which causes me the most annoyance rather than whether individuals pay it, remove it or adjust the amount.

[insanemagnet]

Thats because we have the moral high ground. Clearly unlike you who have been against tipping for years. I will give you that you are consistent.

 

 

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As usual you are wrong.

 

I have nothing at all against tipping.

 

However P&O's optional service charge which is used to fund the bulk of the staff wages isn't a tip in any sense.

[daiB]

As usual you are wrong.

 

I have nothing at all against tipping.

 

However P&O's optional service charge which is used to fund the bulk of the staff wages isn't a tip in any sense.

 

 

 

Well you do surprise me as you have been against tipping for years as your many negative posts have shown.

 

Although you continue to quote facts which are not facts at all but made up by you. Something does not become a fact just because you say it often enough.

 

BTW if you do not like the auto tips just stop them and give the staff an envelope as you used to.

 

I will continue to leave my auto tips on.

 

 

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