Jones Act dilemma - Please help!!

[jollyjones]

To the OP:

Yes, this is a very frustrating situation because the repo followed by an Alaskan cruise is a great trip. It's worth doing if you can find an easy way to change ships in Vancouver - when I did it I was able to move from one Princess ship to another which was docked immediately adjacent - still had to do Canadian immigration then US pre-clearance in the cruise terminal but that was fairly quick then I just walked back onto the pier and boarded the second ship (Princess moved my luggage over for me).

I encourage you to see if you can find two ships/itineraries that work for you - it's definitely worth it.

[Expat Cruise]

Most of the answers here have been correct. But what has not been pointed out is you can do it, break the Jones or Passenger Acts but you would not want to do so because the fines would be more than the cost of the cruise.

 

The only ships that can operate in the United States, without a Foreign post stop is ships that are Flagged in the United States. To be flagged as a US ship the ship must be built in America or have a act of Congress pasted to allow a foreign built ship to have US Flagging. That is why NCL re flagged a ship when they started offering Hawaiian Island Cruises.

 

If you had a US Flagged ship is could travel within the United States or around the World. But being US Flagged means US Labor Laws full US Coast Guard approval, inspections and supervision. it is a major cost that most cruise lines will not do.

[Shmoo here]

Most of the answers here have been correct. But what has not been pointed out is you can do it, break the Jones or Passenger Acts but you would not want to do so because the fines would be more than the cost of the cruise.

...

The fine is $300 per person. Certainly not "more than the cost of the cruise" in most cases.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

[sail7seas]

The simplest thing to remember is that a distant foriegn port must be outside of north or Central America. That is why ships transiting the canal form LA or SF to FLL or Miami stop in Cartagena or one of the ABC islands. Those islands are classified as being in South America and so they work.

 

 

Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao (AB C ) are Dutch and great islands to visit. :)

[bob brown]

Most of the answers here have been correct. But what has not been pointed out is you can do it, break the Jones or Passenger Acts but you would not want to do so because the fines would be more than the cost of the cruise.

 

The only ships that can operate in the United States, without a Foreign post stop is ships that are Flagged in the United States. To be flagged as a US ship the ship must be built in America or have a act of Congress pasted to allow a foreign built ship to have US Flagging. That is why NCL re flagged a ship when they started offering Hawaiian Island Cruises.

 

If you had a US Flagged ship is could travel within the United States or around the World. But being US Flagged means US Labor Laws full US Coast Guard approval, inspections and supervision. it is a major cost that most cruise lines will not do.

The NCL's Pride of America, currently the only larger cruise ship with US Registry, necessary to do Hawaii only cruises; actually has a hull built by Ingalls Shipbuilding (now Huntington Ingalls), in Pascagoula, Ms. The hull was towed to Germany, where it was lengthened and than the superstructure added....she was one of the three original government excepted ships that NCL operated in the Hawaiian market, and the only one remaining that way.

[Cruise Junky]

Most of the answers here have been correct. But what has not been pointed out is you can do it, break the Jones or Passenger Acts but you would not want to do so because the fines would be more than the cost of the cruise.

 

 

You actually can't do it because a cruise line cannot willingly break the PVSA and by allowing you to book it that's what they're doing. They'll lose a whole lot more than $300 if caught

[Expat Cruise]

The NCL's Pride of America, currently the only larger cruise ship with US Registry, necessary to do Hawaii only cruises; actually has a hull built by Ingalls Shipbuilding (now Huntington Ingalls), in Pascagoula, Ms. The hull was towed to Germany, where it was lengthened and than the superstructure added....she was one of the three original government excepted ships that NCL operated in the Hawaiian market, and the only one remaining that way.

 

As I said that is why NCL went to Congress and got a ct passed so a non US Built ship could be reflagged to a US Flag.

 

From my post "To be flagged as a US ship the ship must be built in America or have a act of Congress pasted to allow a foreign built ship to have US Flagging. "

[Expat Cruise]

The fine is $300 per person. Certainly not "more than the cost of the cruise" in most cases.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

 

The $300 fee is what the US Government charges as a fine the cruise line will add additional fees and cost bring it to more than the cost of the cruise. And while the cruise line knowing will not allow you to book to do so, things happen. They cannot stop you from getting off the ship.

 

A good example is ship leaves Miami with first port Key West, passenger must leave in Key West, Family issues, medical, etc, the fees are charged under the act. The cruise line cannot and will con hold you and not allow you to leave the ship.

[Shorex]

If the cruise line won't let the OP book these two consecutive cruises, then the OP will not be on these two cruises. All the opinions concerning the nuances of PVSA are irrelevant as to the specific situation. True, the cruise line will not forcibly forbid anyone from leaving. However, in this specific case, the cruise will not sell the second cruise, so the OP will not be boarding the second cruise if he is booked on the first. So, OP, without the permission of the cruise line, you must look for other cruise options.

[sfpd3000]

Thank you everyone for the information and advice. Might just go with Holland America on a repo and hook up with Celebrity in Vancouver.

[chengkp75]

As I said that is why NCL went to Congress and got a ct passed so a non US Built ship could be reflagged to a US Flag.

 

From my post "To be flagged as a US ship the ship must be built in America or have a act of Congress pasted to allow a foreign built ship to have US Flagging. "

 

You're not quite correct here. To be flagged as a US flag ship, it does not need to be built in the US, nor have an Act of Congress. I have sailed on many US flag vessels that were built foreign, and one of the largest operators of US flag shipping, Maersk Lines, has virtually all of their ships built foreign. To be Jones Act or PVSA compliant, on the other hand, you do need to be US built.

 

The act that got NCL the PVSA waiver also allowed them to flag in one existing foreign built ship, and one foreign built ship (which was US flag from the beginning, even though foreign built), in exchange for assuming the debt on the unfinished POA, which the US government had extended loan guarantees on. The act was not required for these two foreign built ships to be flagged US, but to allow them to trade in the PVSA trade.

[chengkp75]

The $300 fee is what the US Government charges as a fine the cruise line will add additional fees and cost bring it to more than the cost of the cruise. And while the cruise line knowing will not allow you to book to do so, things happen. They cannot stop you from getting off the ship.

 

A good example is ship leaves Miami with first port Key West, passenger must leave in Key West, Family issues, medical, etc, the fees are charged under the act. The cruise line cannot and will con hold you and not allow you to leave the ship.

 

You are correct that the ship cannot detain you from disembarking in violation of the PVSA. Not sure where you get the information about the "additional fees" being added. And the PVSA fine is levied against the cruise line, not the passenger, it is only the ticket contract where you give them the right to pass any fine on to you. There have been intimations that the fine is increasing to $750 per passenger. And if you need to disembark due to medical emergency (and the fine is levied even if the passenger dies onboard), you can apply for a waiver and be reimbursed. However, if you just disembark in violation, for no acceptable reason (medical, death, sometimes death in family), the cruise line will normally place you on the "do not sail" list, blackballing you from that line.

[bob brown]

Thanks for those clarifications!

 

As for the "no cruise list"....I wonder if cruise lines thru their CLIA or other trade organization's, exchange these lists with other lines...it would seem to be a good idea, like the TSA "no fly list", but perhaps they wouldn't out of fear of possible litigation...?

[thinfool]

The fine is $300 per person. Certainly not "more than the cost of the cruise" in most cases.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

 

The fine is now $762.

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/12/08/2017-26506/civil-monetary-penalty-adjustments-for-inflation