CPAPS, medical devices and Power Strips

[BirdTravels]

I travel several times a month (two TSA visits per trip) and have never had my cpap pulled for inspection. I go through pre-check, but they should have similar inspection rules.

[tumblew467]

Thank You for all of your responses.

esm54687 I really did not want to pack in the suitcase. Just b/c well-- sometimes luggage goes missing or ends up somewhere else. Very good points about asking them to change gloves and putting it in a clear bag. Thank you very much.

[qoap24]

NCL allows non-surge protected power strips and plain extension cords. Surge protected strips are not allowed because of a fire danger (the ship's electrical system is very different from a system on land).

 

The cheapest power strips are not surge protected. They don't have lights, reset buttons or anything like that. Look for something like this, that should cost from $6 to $10:

 

 

Please let me say in advance that I am not arguing, but was hoping someone can please show me where I would find that "surge protectors" are not allowed. I have read the Prohibited Items List on NCL and I am not finding it. I have never had a problem bringing one onboard before, but I do not want to be breaking any kind of safety rules. Thanks

[esm54687]

I'm not sure exactly where it's listed on a cruise line's prohibited items list but here is the Coast Guard Safety Advisory concerning SPDs (safety alert 03-13)

 

 

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organization/Assistant-Commandant-for-Prevention-Policy-CG-5P/Inspections-Compliance-CG-5PC-/Office-of-Investigations-Casualty-Analysis/Safety-Alerts/

[PATRLR]

Please let me say in advance that I am not arguing, but was hoping someone can please show me where I would find that "surge protectors" are not allowed. I have read the Prohibited Items List on NCL and I am not finding it. I have never had a problem bringing one onboard before, but I do not want to be breaking any kind of safety rules. Thanks

I don't know where you will find it documented. I can tell you I had a surge protected strip on the Getaway last fall and the room steward (or someone) took it and gave me a non-surge protected one to use for the week.

[cruisegal415]

We had a power strip confiscated on the RCI trip we took last time. No surge suppressor. Just a power strip.

[esm54687]

We had a power strip confiscated on the RCI trip we took last time. No surge suppressor. Just a power strip.

I always have my power strip in my CPAP travelling case so it's part of the "medical equipment" and I always have it as carry on...... never had an issue with NCL

[NormanW]

If you MUST use a PSP enabled outlet multiplier, a proper one is going to set you back approximately $90 USD...

 

 

http://www.norfolkwire.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=BROPOW+Z6-62P

 

 

The important thing is the circuit breaker. It's a DOUBLE POLE device; which means if engaged (open due to OL /short) will disconnect BOTH sides unlike the single pole CB used in common terrestrial wiring systems.

 

 

Delta power systems using 60V on each leg 180deg out of phase to provide 120VAC for your loads is transparent to the layperson. But if that single pole breaker opens, a hazardous condition exists that can cause damage and even fire!

 

 

The cheap strips are just as bad because they often have a circuit breaker, switch and their outlets are very poorly made. The multihead cord posted prior is OK but beware that its total capacity is less than a single 15A outlet due to its 16AWG wire size. Most folks never push this limit anyhow even with a barrage of chargers, et-al. But if you're using something you should NOT (anything with a heating element!) you could.

 

 

Even if you follow the "rules" and just connect one device, say a laptop, into an outlet a problem could still arise. Internally, these devices have a fuse inline with the "hot" (black wire in USA) and at least one MOV device to provide basic spike protection. If something goes amiss and that fuse opens there will still be 60V coming in from the other side. And if this happens to be a metal chassis laptop like a Mac, and internal isolation breaks down, you could get shocked or worse. This is why you don't use cheap aftermarket chargers from ebay and Amazon. Problem is Apple charges 3X more than the knockoffs and so many are enticed to buy them or a couple to keep around as spares. Don't do this! Even at home on terrestrial power with a neutral that's bonded to the ground, they still can be a hazard.

 

 

It can be an inconvenience for sure, but to be safe please keep these things unplugged when not in your stateroom.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Norman

[BirdTravels]

We had a power strip confiscated on the RCI trip we took last time. No surge suppressor. Just a power strip.

Maybe because any extension cord or power strip is listed as a prohibited item on RCI. They are allowed on NCL.

[fshagan]

Please let me say in advance that I am not arguing, but was hoping someone can please show me where I would find that "surge protectors" are not allowed. I have read the Prohibited Items List on NCL and I am not finding it. I have never had a problem bringing one onboard before, but I do not want to be breaking any kind of safety rules. Thanks

 

They don't list them on their "prohibited items" page now, but I thought they did in the past. Unfortunately archive.org does not have past images of that page.

 

NCL has always been less stringent on this issue than RCL / X who ban all extension cords, period. NCL doesn't but I remember seeing the prohibition against surge protected devices. They may allow them now, so I would call and check.

[cruisekitty22]

DH has a CPAP. It is carry on only, never pack it! They could lose your luggage!

[TheCruisingBrewers]

This is our 1st time traveling with a C PAP. My neighbor said that at the airport they will put some kind of chemical through it make sure it is a c pap machine. DO they do this at the port as well? I am asking bc this determines if I pack it or carry it on in its own case that it comes with.

 

I think your neighbor is confused, the TSA will sometimes swab your device looking for traces of residue for chemicals associated with nasty stuff terrorists do. And I have been wanded in addition JUST because I was carrying my CPAP. They cannot harm your device or refuse you from carrying it on an aircraft, or charge it as a bag, it is a free bag and any airline person that may question you regarding it, may just not realize it is a CPAP device.

 

Cruise lines barely even blink at CPAPs. and are usually very accomodating for anyone using CPAP or other medical devices. All cruise lines have their own policies it has varied on the ones I have been on. For cords and what you are allowed to use, the best practice is to ask for a cord and distilled water AHEAD of time, you may get a HUGE bottle of sterile water instead which is fine. Sterile water is fine to use in your humidifier. Like the other poster, I always take my own plain 10 foot power cord. Just in case. Make sure you also take a country specific outlet adaptor, if you are spending nights is a foriegn country that has different power outlets.

 

Safe travels, it is nice to see people asking questions here!

 

Nancy Brewer

ResMed Clinical Specialist

[cruisegal415]

Maybe because any extension cord or power strip is listed as a prohibited item on RCI. They are allowed on NCL.

Well that must've been a new rule because the time before we sailed with them we had no problem bringing on a power strip or an extension cord.

[chengkp75]

If you MUST use a PSP enabled outlet multiplier, a proper one is going to set you back approximately $90 USD...

 

 

http://www.norfolkwire.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=BROPOW+Z6-62P

 

 

The important thing is the circuit breaker. It's a DOUBLE POLE device; which means if engaged (open due to OL /short) will disconnect BOTH sides unlike the single pole CB used in common terrestrial wiring systems.

 

 

Delta power systems using 60V on each leg 180deg out of phase to provide 120VAC for your loads is transparent to the layperson. But if that single pole breaker opens, a hazardous condition exists that can cause damage and even fire!

 

 

The cheap strips are just as bad because they often have a circuit breaker, switch and their outlets are very poorly made. The multihead cord posted prior is OK but beware that its total capacity is less than a single 15A outlet due to its 16AWG wire size. Most folks never push this limit anyhow even with a barrage of chargers, et-al. But if you're using something you should NOT (anything with a heating element!) you could.

 

 

Even if you follow the "rules" and just connect one device, say a laptop, into an outlet a problem could still arise. Internally, these devices have a fuse inline with the "hot" (black wire in USA) and at least one MOV device to provide basic spike protection. If something goes amiss and that fuse opens there will still be 60V coming in from the other side. And if this happens to be a metal chassis laptop like a Mac, and internal isolation breaks down, you could get shocked or worse. This is why you don't use cheap aftermarket chargers from ebay and Amazon. Problem is Apple charges 3X more than the knockoffs and so many are enticed to buy them or a couple to keep around as spares. Don't do this! Even at home on terrestrial power with a neutral that's bonded to the ground, they still can be a hazard.

 

 

It can be an inconvenience for sure, but to be safe please keep these things unplugged when not in your stateroom.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Norman

 

First off, the power strip you link to is in fact a shipboard capable surge protector, however, surge protection is not required on ships due to the floating ground (which causes the problems with consumer surge protectors) and the design of step-down transformers. That power strip is completely overkill for anyone using a power strip on a cruise ship, and in no way is it any safer than a consumer non-surge protected power strip.

 

Your statements regarding use of a single pole breaker power strip would be justified if the ship's circuit was not protected with a two pole breaker. This two pole protection is what protects the consumer power strip with a single pole breaker, just as if the power strip was an extension cord, without any circuit breaker.

 

Your statement that power strips have "at least one MOV device to provide basic spike protection" is not correct, they don't have any MOV's if they are not listed as surge protected. And if you are talking about the electronics having an MOV for spike protection, this is also not correct. Nearly all will have "over voltage protection", which is not the same as surge protection, and does not rely on MOV's as they do not "dump" excessive voltage to ground, but simply turn off the output voltage when the input voltage exceeds the design limit.

 

And, so, your danger from a consumer power strip is, one fault causes the power fuse in the strip to open, and then another fault causing a ground, to your metal framed MAC, this is going to cause a shock? Let's examine this. The one leg of the power strip that doesn't have a fuse will still conduct power to the MAC, and the insulation failure in the MAC routes that power to the chassis. That chassis is connected to the ground connection in the power adapter, and this ground connection is connected to the ground in the power strip, which in turn connected to the ship's ground, and thence to the hull, and to earth via the sea. Yet your body is a better conductor than this route? I don't understand your reasoning. While I agree with your statement that some non-Apple power adapters for MAC are not grounded, use of ungrounded appliances is never a good idea.

[littleengine]

I’ll be travelling for the first time with mine on a cruise in a few weeks. This info has been very helpful to this first timer.

Edited May 30, 2018 by littleengine

[NormanW]

That outlet multiplier is the real deal. Any navy person will tell you, that's all you need to know. That bar also provides common mode and differential mode noise filtering. Granted it's no SOLA (good luck carrying a 1.8kVA ferroresonant transformer up the gangway haha!) but it's going to be at least as good as the ever popular ISOBAR stuff AND it's certified for delta power systems.

 

Generally if it's cheap and labeled "surge protection" than it will have a MOV. There's other non MOV surge protection devices as well. MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) is a device which conducts suddenly when its listed breakdown voltage threshold is breached. They can be placed across the line or from line to ground, etc. Their response time is fairly fast but not fast enough to protect sensitive equipment. They are popular because they are cheap and do work for most cases. Most stuff today can accept a wide variety of input power: typically from 95-260VAC 50-60Hz. Not like the old days where you had to change taps on a transformer. And when the electrician forgot to (120V factory tapped exit sign on 277V system)...haha. But we used to put MOVs on PIP boards with a small ceramic fuse in front so if a mistake like this happened we'd just be out a thirty cent fuse instead of a $50 transformer.

 

 

 

 

I do NOT like those thrift store power strips. Cheap and dangerous even to use at home. I toss them out and they are contraband here! A proper socket multiplier consists of a metal chassis with full sockets installed that are properly back wired with solid copper conductors of rated ampacity. A good one costs $30-40 for six outlets. If one is handy they can make their own with a quad box, pair of duplex outlets, steel coverplate, SJ/SJO cord, and proper plug.

 

But those cheap Chinese strips sure look pretty when they get dunked, pink flames and all! ;)

 

Power bricks (particularly the cheap CN knockoffs) can certainly have their isolation break down ANYWHERE and what seems to be safe can have deadly consequences. People assume that a 5V USB charger cannot kill you but if something goes wrong and there's line voltage present on the output terminals (floating ground, remember?), and the person touches it, the outcome can be lethal. Most higher powered SMPS used for high end laptops (>100W) also have voltages in them considerably higher than the line voltage) There was a case of a girl that died because of this. Yes, one should never use a plugged in iphone near a bathtub, right?

 

 

 

I have used numerous USB chargers and can feel a tingling sensation when holding a metal banded cell phone while plugged in. That's a warning sign right there. And these are name brand chargers with thousands of five star ratings on Amazon. Because they work. There's a danger lurking. And while a GFCI may prevent a lethal shock, it certainly won't prevent a shock at all! I know this too well. In the 80s I touched a pool pump while standing in wet grass barefoot. Couldn't get much worse besides perhaps holding a toaster in the tub! Ok maybe this!

 

 

And guess what? The ground was corroded so the pump chassis was energized. I felt a crazy shock and my arm cramped up. I couldn't move. Fortunately, the GFCI tripped. If it weren't for that GFCI I wouldn't be here today. I know it. But when I hear people say GFCIs prevent shocks I have to correct them.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[chengkp75]

Yes, as I said, the power strip you linked to "is the real deal", but is overkill for use on cruise ships, and even for ship's use, they will generally not use something like this (we tend to use a "European" design 220v power strip, which has a two pole breaker, but mostly because of the flexibility of outlets due to "universal" design). Surge protection is not needed on ships, none of the ship's vital systems are surge protected.

 

Then you talk about surge protection. But surge protection is the problem. Even in the USCG Safety Notice regarding surge protected devices, what they don't stress is that the real danger they found in the two fires was the combination of a single pole breaker in a surge protected power strip, so that the MOV across "neutral" to ground would not open under high current. But, that's just the point, without the MOV providing a path between neutral to ground, in the absence of a ground fault, there would be no current flow from neutral to ground. This is why surge protectors are dangerous, as the delta connection can subject them to reverse voltages.

 

Whether or not a "cheap" power strip is safe to carry its rated current is a different debate than whether it is dangerous due to a single pole breaker.

 

Then you talk of failures of USB chargers. Again, not sure what that has to do with a power strip, and whether or not it has a single pole breaker or not, especially when that single pole breaker is backed up by a two pole breaker.

 

And then you talk of GFCI's, and their problems. Just not sure whether you are making general warnings about the dangers of electricity, or trying to connect all this to use of consumer power strips. If you want to use the high end MilSpec power strip, feel free, just don't dismiss the use of consumer grade power strips as dangerous, provided they are not surge protected, as this is just not the case.