Restricted Shopping/Hotels

[Fogfog]

With the published restricted hotels Off limits to Americans and the list of restricted shops Off limits to Americans

 

Are these marked in some way so we don't make the mistake of entering/buying there?

 

Sorry if this is a naiive question...

 

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/cuba/cubarestrictedlist/275331.htm

[Kamloops50]

The problem is that most business and hotels are 51% owned by the government. That is a condition of foreign private companies doing business in Cuba.

[Fogfog]

I understand that the shops on the list are gov owned

 

What I want to know--is other than carrying a list--how do I know which are forbidden/off limits? Are they marked in some way?

[EatonDoolittle]

You are over thinking this.

 

Nobody on the ground in Cuba cares, and nobody on the ship, at Customs, or back in the US is checking anything, or cares. You will be paying for everything in cash, so there is not even a record of where you shopped or ate/drank.

 

Why would they be marked as off limits? How would they even know they are off limits to US visitors? There are many international tourists in Havana who do not need to abide by any restrictions.

 

Management in the hotels (for instance) would possible know who their ownership group is, but I'm sure average working people have no knowledge or concern about this list. They are happy to have visitors, and you will be made to feel very welcome.

[rederob]

Are these marked in some way so we don't make the mistake of entering/buying there?

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/cuba/cubarestrictedlist/275331.htm

Nothing prevents you going into any of the places on the restricted list, but you are not supposed to make a direct financial transaction - which means you, personally, should not make a direct purchase.

As pointed out, however, you are likely to transact in cash so no obvious trail, and then back in the USA nobody in Customs seems to care. And in a worst case scenario if you happened to be questioned over an item that looked like it was purchased at, say Gran Hotel Manzana Kempinski, you simply say it was a gift from a good friend you met while on the cruise.

All bases covered.

Edited July 24, 2018 by rederob
spelling

[Magnetchief]

You can't tell, but as one poster mentioned. Most are if not all then partially goverment owned.

If you're worried, don't enter any stores, bars, resturants or hotels.

You should be fine then.

[Fogfog]

You can't tell, but as one poster mentioned. Most are if not all then partially goverment owned.

If you're worried, don't enter any stores, bars, resturants or hotels.

You should be fine then.

 

 

very funny

 

I asked because of the published regs.

AND wondering about immigration and bringing back something purchased at the wrong vendor

[rederob]

The fact a store might be government owned is not relevant as the restriction relates to making a direct financial transaction. So you go anywhere you like and look for what you want to buy.

If you did happen to make a purchase at a store you subsequently discovered was on the Cuba Restricted List (CRL) all you need to do is ensure it could not be identified as being purchased there.

So if it is not immediately possible for you to identify where you made any of your purchases, US Customs have no hope, and that is if they even cared to ask - and most travellers report they do not ask.

[mvjcruise]

The answer to your question is,”No, they are not marked.” Remember the list is a US government list. No one in Cuba cares where you spend your money.

[RiverBlues]

very funny

 

I asked because of the published regs.

AND wondering about immigration and bringing back something purchased at the wrong vendor

 

And IF you had actually read the regs, you might have seen that buying from a third party is OK. In other words, if you buy rum direct from a distillery that is on the naughty list, it is not OK, but if you buy that same rum from the corner bottle shop, it's fine. It has been posted online that this could also apply to hotels booked through a third party.

 

Don't worry about not having read the regs though. CPB staff probably haven't either, even if they cared.

[Lady77]

I’m going to Cuba on RCCL and being a retired teacher, I was planning on bringing school supplies and soccer balls( deflated). Will I be able to donate them to a local school in Havana? Also, should we buy our visa through RCCL or buy it in the states?

 

Laurie aka Lady77

[Kamloops50]

Cuban visas aren’t sold in advance. You get it when you arrive on the ship.

[rederob]

And IF you had actually read the regs, you might have seen that buying from a third party is OK.

Grateful for that link as I know there is no specific mention of third party arrangements. Nevertheless, the regulations talk about the originator of a direct financial transaction, so if someone else had originated a purchase for something which you now access, such as a lavish meal at an otherwise restricted hotel, then you are off the hook. Your example of purchasing rum was perhaps not the best as there are many places on the Cuba Restricted List which sell rum besides the restricted distilleries.

The above technicalities, however, are just a side show because you rightly point out that travellers are not likely to bothered by USCBP in the first place, and even then it's doubtful they would understand OFAC's restrictions.

[Fogfog]

I find it SHOCKING -- absolutely SHOCKING that so many here suggest LYING and FRAUD to the US Fed/Immigration officials with many excuses.

 

I asked an honest question about the regs which--albeit are straightforward re company names...

AND

wondered how one knows if shops are owned by those parties.

 

AND how to comply with laws and regs US Citizens are under as part of our citizenship and responsibilities.

 

Absolutely SHOCKING. :o

 

Hopefully none of you who suggest lying/cheating/fraud and stealing are parents or procreate!

[rederob]

I find it SHOCKING -- absolutely SHOCKING that so many here suggest LYING and FRAUD to the US Fed/Immigration officials with many excuses.

Jumping to your conclusions is not helpful as nobody has suggested you act fraudulently.

It is a fact that Cuba does not care where you go as a tourist or where you shop. Indeed, they are keen for tourists to frequent businesses on the Cuba Restricted List and therefore do not assist the USA with their ongoing embargo.

If you or other travellers are concerned about complying in every regard with OFAC's restrictions then it behoves you to be fully conversant with every entity on the CRL (caveat emptor) and be compliant with your chosen OFAC general license category. Good luck with that:eek:.

 

Now, let's take a most unlikely corollary to your point, and you end up being questioned by US Customs about a cash purchase you made for an item which Customs claim could only have occurred at one of the forbidden businesses. Your version of the truth carries no weight as you have no immediate evidence to support what you claim. You suddenly remember and counter with a receipt from the vendor, and this is where it gets even more interesting. More often than not the receipt will be not be identifiable to the vendor and Customs would claim you wrote it yourself to cover your tracks. The hole you are digging is getting deeper:loudcry:.

The fact the US Customs do not care turns out to be mixed blessing for some.

[Arzeena]

very funny

 

I asked because of the published regs.

AND wondering about immigration and bringing back something purchased at the wrong vendor

 

If you are taking a tour from the cruiseline, your guide may let you know. Ours mentioned it at various points. The words he used were "Folks, you all are not allowed to go there".

 

Also we jotted down every dime we spent on whatever we did, ate, drank, tipped etc. We had that list ready in case the customs officers asked for it or were interested in knowing what we did. And good we did. When we returned, we had to fill out a customs form and go through customs and were asked if we purchased any cigars or rum/alcohol in Cuba.

Holland America randomly picks passengers to bestow this honor before disembarking the ship! There were about 300 people at least.

 

Do not worry. Be honest. Write down everything you spent any money on and keep it with you in case you get randomly picked for inspection. Enjoy your cruise.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Arzeena

[Arzeena]

Jumping to your conclusions is not helpful as nobody has suggested you act fraudulently.

It is a fact that Cuba does not care where you go as a tourist or where you shop. Indeed, they are keen for tourists to frequent businesses on the Cuba Restricted List and therefore do not assist the USA with their ongoing embargo.

If you or other travellers are concerned about complying in every regard with OFAC's restrictions then it behoves you to be fully conversant with every entity on the CRL (caveat emptor) and be compliant with your chosen OFAC general license category. Good luck with that:eek:.

 

Now, let's take a most unlikely corollary to your point, and you end up being questioned by US Customs about a cash purchase you made for an item which Customs claim could only have occurred at one of the forbidden businesses. Your version of the truth carries no weight as you have no immediate evidence to support what you claim. You suddenly remember and counter with a receipt from the vendor, and this is where it gets even more interesting. More often than not the receipt will be not be identifiable to the vendor and Customs would claim you wrote it yourself to cover your tracks. The hole you are digging is getting deeper:loudcry:.

The fact the US Customs do not care turns out to be mixed blessing for some.

 

I think you are the one who is jumping to conclusions.

 

Read my post above yours.

 

Whether one authority actually cares or does not care, some of us like to have a good night's sleep knowing we did not break any law (however ambiguous the law may seem). The OP and I are two among many who want to have a good night's sleep!

[rederob]

Whether one authority actually cares or does not care, some of us like to have a good night's sleep knowing we did not break any law (however ambiguous the law may seem). The OP and I are two among many who want to have a good night's sleep!

Yet there is a very good chance that you did actually break the law, because you may not know its intricacies. When you completed your P2P tour and separately went ashore, who was the person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who was an employee, paid consultant, agent, or other representative of the sponsoring organization who accompanied your group?

Additionally, what conclusions do you suggest I am jumping to - just curious?

Finally, if your tour guide said "Folks, you all are not allowed to go there" then they are clueless. If you had a proper cruise line briefing before going ashore they should have told you that the prohibition relates only to making a direct financial transaction with a listed entity on the CRL. Nothing prevents any tourist from entering any of them and for that matter nothing prevents anyone from experiencing their pleasures via a third party transaction.

[CruiseGal999]

I find it SHOCKING -- absolutely SHOCKING that so many here suggest LYING and FRAUD to the US Fed/Immigration officials with many excuses.

 

I asked an honest question about the regs which--albeit are straightforward re company names...

AND

wondered how one knows if shops are owned by those parties.

 

AND how to comply with laws and regs US Citizens are under as part of our citizenship and responsibilities.

 

Absolutely SHOCKING. :o

 

Hopefully none of you who suggest lying/cheating/fraud and stealing are parents or procreate!

 

 

LOL :') That's funny.

[newcruiser1956]

I spent all day in Havana, no one followed me around. When I returned to the ship no one asked me where I had been, if I had purchased anything, I showed my ship card when I came into the terminal, showed my passport, Put my purse through the detector. That was it. Back on the ship.

 

I wonder if some getting questioned are getting questions from the ship verses Cuba? I don't think Cuba cares, they just want you to come to the island and spend money.

[Arzeena]

Yet there is a very good chance that you did actually break the law, because you may not know its intricacies. When you completed your P2P tour and separately went ashore, who was the person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who was an employee, paid consultant, agent, or other representative of the sponsoring organization who accompanied your group?

Additionally, what conclusions do you suggest I am jumping to - just curious?

Finally, if your tour guide said "Folks, you all are not allowed to go there" then they are clueless. If you had a proper cruise line briefing before going ashore they should have told you that the prohibition relates only to making a direct financial transaction with a listed entity on the CRL. Nothing prevents any tourist from entering any of them and for that matter nothing prevents anyone from experiencing their pleasures via a third party transaction.

 

Conclusions......again! :)

Edited July 31, 2018 by Arzeena

[Arzeena]

I spent all day in Havana, no one followed me around. When I returned to the ship no one asked me where I had been, if I had purchased anything, I showed my ship card when I came into the terminal, showed my passport, Put my purse through the detector. That was it. Back on the ship.

 

I wonder if some getting questioned are getting questions from the ship verses Cuba? I don't think Cuba cares, they just want you to come to the island and spend money.

 

Our "questions" were from the one of the 6 CBP officers who boarded the ship on disembarkation for customs check (lack of counters inside the port terminal, hence they come on board and set up shop in one of the meeting rooms, per one of them). We were given the customs form to fill out. They checked it, asked about rum and cigars from Cuba, went over our list of how much was spent where in Cuba, quickly checked another document they had on their end, against my list and said have a great day.