Paying Half of Gratuities?

[calmpets]

Interesting bit of trivia, MSC just announced last week that their daily service charge would now be mandatory, and could not be removed. Within a few days the public outcry was so huge that they reversed the decision. Personally, since I don't know the inner workings of how the cruise lines process the service charge, I would just as soon pay it and make sure all the crew who take care of me are covered. Tipping has always been, and will likely always be, a part of the cost of cruising, and IMHO people who are fighting against it before they have even set foot on the ship are less concerned with how the crew benefits, and more concerned with saving a few bucks.

[NLH Arizona]

19 minutes ago, calmpets said:

Interesting bit of trivia, MSC just announced last week that their daily service charge would now be mandatory, and could not be removed. Within a few days the public outcry was so huge that they reversed the decision. Personally, since I don't know the inner workings of how the cruise lines process the service charge, I would just as soon pay it and make sure all the crew who take care of me are covered. Tipping has always been, and will likely always be, a part of the cost of cruising, and IMHO people who are fighting against it before they have even set foot on the ship are less concerned with how the crew benefits, and more concerned with saving a few bucks.

I did go over to MSC and see what their reactions were and it seemed like a lot of the posters with issues were from non-tipping countries and I'm guessing removed them prior to the short lived change.  It amazes me that some say they want the cruise lines to pay the crew a decent wage and not have the DSC or automatic/gratuities and when the cruise lines remove the DSC or automatic gratuities and includes it in the fare, they don't want that either.  The cruise lines can't win with some folks no matter what they do.

Edited March 4, 2019 by NLH Arizona

[newmexicoNita]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

I did go over to MSC and see what their reactions were and it seemed like a lot of the posters with issues were from non-tipping countries and I'm guessing removed them prior to the short lived change.  It amazes me that some say they want the cruise lines to pay the crew a decent wage and not have the DSC or automatic/gratuities and when the cruise lines remove the DSC or automatic gratuities and includes it in the fare, they don't want that either.  The cruise lines can't win with some folks no matter what they do.

I think the countries where tipping isn't the custom always complaint about tipping. When we took the Jewel from London to America there were a lot of cruisers not from America. Many were complaining and that was when the auto was nothing like now. There are a lot of MSC cruisers from other countries. When are people going to accept auto tipping, call it what you want is fair and here to stay. All someone has to do is sit down and figure out how much one would be tipping if they tipped everyone separately for the food and service they are getting Heck I don't like the policy of tipping 20% or more but I certainly do it. Some people are never satisfied or they are just plain cheap. As you say, if the cruise lines were to raise the prices for cruising to cover the DSC all hell would break lose. This goes for those who think the price of dining out should be reflected in the price of your meal and tipping shouldn't be expected 

[HAPPINESS IS]

On 3/4/2019 at 4:35 PM, purplecow15 said:

Wow! I'm amazed how so many people who are privileged enough to take numerous cruises will quibble over a few hundred

dollars. I certainly would not be enjoying cruise if I worried about every little expense and who is getting it. Personally have never had experiences with staff on ship to make me want to take away any of their livelihood. Hard working folks are the majority. If I do have less than stellar service I will certainly report it but not penalize all other crew members. 

So on your page!! This whole fiasco truly amazes me!  

[mianmike]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:26 AM, newmexicoNita said:

I think the countries where tipping isn't the custom always complaint about tipping. When we took the Jewel from London to America there were a lot of cruisers not from America. Many were complaining and that was when the auto was nothing like now. There are a lot of MSC cruisers from other countries. When are people going to accept auto tipping, call it what you want is fair and here to stay. All someone has to do is sit down and figure out how much one would be tipping if they tipped everyone separately for the food and service they are getting Heck I don't like the policy of tipping 20% or more but I certainly do it. Some people are never satisfied or they are just plain cheap. As you say, if the cruise lines were to raise the prices for cruising to cover the DSC all hell would break lose. This goes for those who think the price of dining out should be reflected in the price of your meal and tipping shouldn't be expected 

 

A big problem is the use of incorrect terminology.  I'm constantly seeing people refer to the service charge as "gratuities" or "auto tips."  The service charge is not "gratuities" or "auto tips."  It's a service charge that goes to whatever NCL wants.  The crew salary is based upon a seniority/hierarchy payscale and a complex incentive program which is not dependent on "tips."   If people understood this they might not be so upset.  

 

The cruise lines should incorporate the service charge into the cruise fare.  I'm sure there would be some ignorant people who are math challenged and they would complain, but I say C'est la vie, they'll get over it.     

[luv2kroooz]

4 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

A big problem is the use of incorrect terminology.  I'm constantly seeing people refer to the service charge as "gratuities" or "auto tips."  The service charge is not "gratuities" or "auto tips."  It's a service charge that goes to whatever NCL wants.  The crew salary is based upon a seniority/hierarchy payscale and a complex incentive program which is not dependent on "tips."   If people understood this they might not be so upset.  

 

The cruise lines should incorporate the service charge into the cruise fare.  I'm sure there would be some ignorant people who are math challenged and they would complain, but I say C'est la vie, they'll get over it.     

A service charge, by definition, is mandatory. 

A gratuity, by definition, is voluntary.

Unless or until the daily amount can not be adjusted by passengers, it is not a service charge.

 

NCL is the one using incorrect terminology by calling it a service charge, but treating it like a gratuity. 

 

Incorporating it into the cruise fare creates problems for NCL on multiple fronts including taxes, commissions paid, and requiring them to be transparent by advertising higher fares etc.

[newmexicoNita]

42 minutes ago, blcruising said:

A service charge, by definition, is mandatory. 

A gratuity, by definition, is voluntary.

Unless or until the daily amount can not be adjusted by passengers, it is not a service charge.

 

NCL is the one using incorrect terminology by calling it a service charge, but treating it like a gratuity. 

 

Incorporating it into the cruise fare creates problems for NCL on multiple fronts including taxes, commissions paid, and requiring them to be transparent by advertising higher fares etc.

Does it honestly make a difference guys? Call it what you want, add to the fare, or whatever you are going to pay it or you are going to choose not too. You are right it is easier for NCL to call it a service charge. 

[luv2kroooz]

3 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

Does it honestly make a difference guys? Call it what you want, add to the fare, or whatever you are going to pay it or you are going to choose not too. You are right it is easier for NCL to call it a service charge. 

It makes a difference to the OP. Since it is currently treated like a gratuity, it can be adjusted as the OP asked. If it becomes a service charge, it could not be adjusted. You can't choose not to pay a mandatory service charge.

[mianmike]

10 hours ago, blcruising said:

A service charge, by definition, is mandatory. 

A gratuity, by definition, is voluntary.

Unless or until the daily amount can not be adjusted by passengers, it is not a service charge.

 

NCL is the one using incorrect terminology by calling it a service charge, but treating it like a gratuity. 

 

Incorporating it into the cruise fare creates problems for NCL on multiple fronts including taxes, commissions paid, and requiring them to be transparent by advertising higher fares etc.

 

I understand what you're saying and I can't argue with your logic.  But the problem is the established common belief that gratuities go to the employees.  That's what confuses people and why they get so worked up about the service charge.   

[luv2kroooz]

4 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

I understand what you're saying and I can't argue with your logic.  But the problem is the established common belief that gratuities go to the employees.  That's what confuses people and why they get so worked up about the service charge.   

Of course all of the money does not go directly to the crew. With all the recent increases, the math just doesn't work. First, we had 15% on $10 drink then, 18% on a $12 then 20% percent on a $15 drink. Then we had 18% of a $79 drink package. Then 20% of a $89  drink package, then 20% of $99. Plus, what was 12.50 a day, became 13.50 and now is 14.50. All with no increase in service to the end user. And then we have the brainchild Del Fee-O or Del Cheap-O or whatever his name is touting how they are laser focused in increasing prices to further increase profits. Well, good luck with that strategy. 

 

I don't know about you, but the service better be excellent and flawless at these ridiculous levels. It is why I adjusted the charges downward on my prior two cruises. Nickel and diming can be a two way street. I am just maxed out with fees and charges and the service was good, but not excellent. It is also the reason why we have only one cruise booked, and it is a free casino cruise. I love cruising, but we are tapped out with the fees and charges and ridiculous onboard pricing. We are actively looking for better vacation alternatives including land based options.

Edited March 7, 2019 by blcruising

[marktwothousand]

To the OP, I would just remove or adjust the service charge once you’re on board to whatever you feel is appropriate. I usually remove it completely and never get any grief for it at customer service. They are always compliant and never question me or make me feel bad for it.

 

i do leave $1s at the bar for drinks and usually $5 or so to my steward every 1-2 days.

 

Ya, to those who say “it’s just $14.50/day”, sorry, but that adds up, especially to people like solo cruisers or those not using the American dollar. And to those who support not removing it, fine, but then you have to at least support the idea of removing the wording that it is “discretionary”. You should be supporting it being called a “mandatory” charge.

 

most of all though, it comes down to being paid a fair and predictable wage. It is not my responsibility to pay crew wages. I pay the cruise line to do that, and not have to think about it. By making the DSC discretionary, we are being hoodwinked as to what exactly happens to the money and how much of it goes where. It should be rolled into higher fares and tipping should

be eliminated entirely on the ship, and really, should be eliminated in ALL professions. It is a very unfair element of capitalism, I don’t understand - when we have all sorts of labour protection laws in the western world - why we feel it is still acceptable for entire industries to operate like this and be an exception to fair labour laws.

Edited March 12, 2019 by marktwothousand

[NLH Arizona]

1 minute ago, marktwothousand said:

 

Ya, to those who say “it’s just $14.50/day”, sorry, but that adds up, especially to people like solo cruisers....

How is it any difference if one is solo, please explain your logic?  

[marktwothousand]

Bc on a per capita basis, solo cruisers usually spend more to cruise because they have to pay more than 50% of the cost for a cabin. Doing rough math, can tell you Studio cabins often work out to being about 75% of the cost of staying in an inside.

 

So, solo cruisers are already paying more for their cruise than they would be for a double occupancy cabin and if you’re middle class, money is usually already pretty tight for a solo cruiser, and $14.50/day in USD is a lot. If you are splitting a cabin by two people, you’ve already likely saved cruise fees and are more likely to have extra money to throw around for things like discretionary charges. 

[NLH Arizona]

2 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

So, solo cruisers are already paying more for their cruise than they would be for a double occupancy cabin and if you’re middle class, money is usually already pretty tight for a solo cruiser, and $14.50/day in USD is a lot. If you are splitting a cabin by two people, you’ve already likely saved cruise fees and are more likely to have extra money to throw around for things like discretionary charges. 

Due to your logic, why didn't you just say it is hard on some that can't afford to pay the DSC, because of what they make.  Money is not always so tight for a solo cruiser that they can't pay the DSC.

[Two Wheels Only]

10 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

It is not my responsibility to pay crew wages.

 

You (the guest) pays NCL who then uses a portion of that money to pay the crew. 

 

11 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

I pay the cruise line to do that, and not have to think about it.

 

If NCL raised the cost of the cruise by more than the DSC but also eliminated the DSC, would that cost you more or less?

 

13 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

By making the DSC discretionary, we are being hoodwinked as to what exactly happens to the money and how much of it goes where

 

With your fare, you don't know exactly what happens to the money and how much goes where. 

 

14 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

It should be rolled into higher fares and tipping should be eliminated entirely on the ship, and really, should be eliminated in ALL professions.

 

Wait....first, you post...

 

15 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

Ya, to those who say “it’s just $14.50/day”, sorry, but that adds up, especially to people like solo cruisers or those not using the American dollar.

 

...which makes it seem that the added cost is a problem, then you post "It should be rolled into higher fares...". Why not just pre-pay the DSC before sailing and "pretend" that it is rolled into the fare?

 

6 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

Bc on a per capita basis, solo cruisers usually spend more to cruise because they have to pay more than 50% of the cost for a cabin

 

They also don't have to share space/bathroom with anyone. There are advantages and disadvantages to cruising solo. 

[takeadip]

On 3/2/2019 at 5:20 PM, Relax Cruiser said:

Hi all, it’s me again and before anyone jumps down my throat have searched extensively and obviously I know this will be opening a can of worms but just wanted a few opinions which can be both “yay or nay”

 

This will be my 4th upcoming cruise and my past 3 cruises I have “ALWAYS” prepaid the Gratuities. Why? Because even if the service might be bad etc I understand that it goes to all the crew members who make our trip worth it on the cruise. I also tip extra to the room stewards and room service people. But this time is different. On our 11 day Cruise we have only 1 sea day. We don’t embark until 4pm so there’s no question of having lunch on Embarkation day. So basically we eat only 1 lunch on cruise and rest on land. Breakfast we just order room service of cereal because we’ll have to be out as soon as the ship docks (for which I’ll be tipping them like I always do). My question is wrt to dinnertime. We have availed the Specialty Dining Package for which we have already paid the 20% tips for. And that covers 5 nights. So rest of the 6 nights will be in the MDR. For a total of 2 people we will be paying Gratuities of almost $330 for an 11 night cruise.

 

I understand from reading the boards that you either pay full or remove the whole thing (which I don’t want to do and definitely feel it’s unfair). But is there a way we can pay only half? We never drink or purchase any drinks and will not be onboard to enjoy the pool. I really dont want to take the livelihood of crew members and don’t want to sound like a cheapskate trying to get my way out of paying where stuff need to be paid.

 

I welcome Constructive criticism And advice but will not entertain name calling as I’m still a newbie at cruising and unsure how this all still works.

 

TIA!

You can go to the purser desk on deck 7 and write on a scratch paper 50% Tips for room # XXXX . hand it to them...and they will adjust accordingly.

[PTC DAWG]

36 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

To the OP, I would just remove or adjust the service charge once you’re on board to whatever you feel is appropriate. I usually remove it completely and never get any grief for it at customer service. They are always compliant and never question me or make me feel bad for it.

 

i do leave $1s at the bar for drinks and usually $5 or so to my steward every 1-2 days.

 

Ya, to those who say “it’s just $14.50/day”, sorry, but that adds up, especially to people like solo cruisers or those not using the American dollar. And to those who support not removing it, fine, but then you have to at least support the idea of removing the wording that it is “discretionary”. You should be supporting it being called a “mandatory” charge.

 

most of all though, it comes down to being paid a fair and predictable wage. It is not my responsibility to pay crew wages. I pay the cruise line to do that, and not have to think about it. By making the DSC discretionary, we are being hoodwinked as to what exactly happens to the money and how much of it goes where. It should be rolled into higher fares and tipping should

be eliminated entirely on the ship, and really, should be eliminated in ALL professions. It is a very unfair element of capitalism, I don’t understand - when we have all sorts of labour protection laws in the western world - why we feel it is still acceptable for entire industries to operate like this and be an exception to fair labour laws.

Re you comment about the crew and a "fair and predictable wage".. you know how cruise lines work, most of them do not pay a wage that would be suitable to you...yet you choose to cruise, and you choose to remove the DSC...I'm not sure I understand your position.  You are supporting the owners of the cruise line, yet stiffing the working crew that you rely on.  

 

Just because you don't like tipping, and want it removed, does not mean the rest of the world revolves around you.  Tipping is largely commonplace in the Carribbean, the US and many other areas of the world that you have chosen to travel in.  

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[marktwothousand]

10 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Due to your logic, why didn't you just say it is hard on some that can't afford to pay the DSC, because of what they make.  Money is not always so tight for a solo cruiser that they can't pay the DSC.

If solo travellers could afford to stay in nicer, bigger and better cabins, they would, and studios would sail empty.

 

7 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

If NCL raised the cost of the cruise by more than the DSC but also eliminated the DSC, would that cost you more or less?

 

...which makes it seem that the added cost is a problem, then you post "It should be rolled into higher fares...". Why not just pre-pay the DSC before sailing and "pretend" that it is rolled into the fare?

It would cost me more, but then, at least I wouldn't have the option. Don't call it optional unless there is no shame or stigma in removing it.

 

If you are shopping at Walmart, and you are at the cash, and the cashier tells you "Your total is $19.66. Also, feel free to add an extra $5.00 on top of that. The extra money you give me will help feed me and my family", would you pay it? That is the same way I feel about the DSC.

[NLH Arizona]

1 minute ago, marktwothousand said:

If solo travellers could afford to stay in nicer, bigger and better cabins, they would, and studios would sail empty.

Totally disagree, many solos love the studio cabins.

[marktwothousand]

11 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Re you comment about the crew and a "fair and predictable wage".. you know how cruise lines work, most of them do not pay a wage that would be suitable to you...yet you choose to cruise, and you choose to remove the DSC...I'm not sure I understand your position.  You are supporting the owners of the cruise line, yet stiffing the working crew that you rely on.  

No one is being "stiffed". If you take a job that has an optional, discretionary gratuity component to it, you always need to assume no customers are going to tip. All those crew members should assume every single guest on board will be removing DSC.

 

If they receive extra pay via DSC or cash tips, then, that's just a bonus! Receive it with gratitude and NEVER rely on something that's "optional".

Edited March 12, 2019 by marktwothousand

[Two Wheels Only]

20 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

It would cost me more, but then, at least I wouldn't have the option.

 

The option bothers you more than the cost? Please explain.

 

20 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

Don't call it optional unless there is no shame or stigma in removing it.

 

Shame from whom? A bunch of random anonymous people on a forum? Does the staff force you to wear a scarlet "DSC" during your cruise?

 

20 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

If you are shopping at Walmart, and you are at the cash, and the cashier tells you "Your total is $19.66. Also, feel free to add an extra $5.00 on top of that. The extra money you give me will help feed me and my family", would you pay it? That is the same way I feel about the DSC.

 

A cashier at Walmart isn't a tipped position. If you go to a restaurant, do you tip the waitress? Some restaurants pool the tips and distribute them to staff which you never see. When (if?) you tip at a restaurant, you have no idea where that money goes once it leaves your hand. Strippers don't keep all of the cash thrown at them, either.....subject for another day. 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Two Wheels Only

[marktwothousand]

1 minute ago, Two Wheels Only said:

The option bothers you more than the cost? Please explain.

 

^^^THIS. That's 100% it, you hit the nail on the head. If you understand that, you understand the whole argument.

[Two Wheels Only]

3 minutes ago, marktwothousand said:

 

^^^THIS. That's 100% it, you hit the nail on the head. If you understand that, you understand the whole argument.

 

I take that to mean that you dislike the "system" and want it to change. UK guests also felt the same way and NCL did change...which resulted in higher fares for UK guests. 

 

Be careful what you wish for....

[erdoran]

I'm still with the school that says it should be part of the fare OR go 100% to staff the way my restaurant tip presumably does.  Even if the waitress tips out other workers, it still goes to workers, not to the restaurant owner.  if NCL keeps it (or uses it to fund its payroll, which amounts to the same thing) then add it to the fare.  If it goes 100% to staff then that's a true gratuity and state that clearly and explicitly and don't use doubletalk and legalese, and that's also good.  I expect to tip wait staff and expect to tip cruise staff, tour guides, etc - but I don't expect to tip NCL, I expect to pay my fare to them.