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Horizon cruisers..... really that bad??

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I'm sure there was all kinds of research done and data collected as to why they made the main theater smaller. Did they come to the conclusion that the older, bigger theaters weren't filling up enough, therefore wasting space? Whatever it was, surely they had a reason for the smaller size. But you can't ignore the fact that so many people complain about bad seating and line of sight to the stage. That can't be a coincidence. These complaints started flowing in as soon as Vista set sail, then they repeated the layout on Horizon. Will they listen to their customers and make any changes on Panorama, or do they simply not care? What I don't get is, after decades of experience with over 30 ships throughout its history, how could they design it so poorly? You'd think they'd have designing a theater figured out by now.

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13 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

I'm sure there was all kinds of research done and data collected as to why they made the main theater smaller. Did they come to the conclusion that the older, bigger theaters weren't filling up enough, therefore wasting space? Whatever it was, surely they had a reason for the smaller size. But you can't ignore the fact that so many people complain about bad seating and line of sight to the stage. That can't be a coincidence. These complaints started flowing in as soon as Vista set sail, then they repeated the layout on Horizon. Will they listen to their customers and make any changes on Panorama, or do they simply not care? What I don't get is, after decades of experience with over 30 ships throughout its history, how could they design it so poorly? You'd think they'd have designing a theater figured out by now.

It was made smaller so they could add more cabins and increase revenue.

 

People can live with that if the sight lines weren’t so bad.

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On 5/14/2019 at 1:48 PM, SNJCruisers said:

If you enjoy going in the pool or hot tub, and if you don't wish to pay extra for the Havana area, then you're stuck with the usual results.  Adult soup in the aft pool and hot tubs overrun by kids. But of course everybody has their own definition of enjoyable.  I'm too old to put up with the adult soup and annoying rugrat nonsense and will gladly pay a little extra for the slice of heaven known as the Havana area on the 3 Vista Class ships.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! The adult soup gets a big no from me and so do the annoying rugrats. So I'm happy I have an option to avoid all that. I'm planning to do the Havana balcony in 3 years for our 30th anniversary so I'm watching all these posts closely to learn all I can. I may be wrong but Havana sounds like just what the doctor ordered for hubby and me!

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1 hour ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

It was made smaller so they could add more cabins and increase revenue.

 

People can live with that if the sight lines weren’t so bad.

 

I considered that as a possibility as well, but on the Vista class, there are no cabins on the Mezzanine deck.

 

Granted, the smaller theater might've allowed them to squeeze other things on the Mezzanine deck that would've otherwise had to have been put on other decks that do have cabins.

 

I know cabins pay the bills, but I think it's a shame we see these giant mega-ships and they don't take advantage of the space to increase the size of some of the most popular areas on the ship. And in some cases, make them smaller. Instead, stuff in more cabins (more people, more crowded common areas).

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2 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

I'm sure there was all kinds of research done and data collected as to why they made the main theater smaller. Did they come to the conclusion that the older, bigger theaters weren't filling up enough, therefore wasting space? Whatever it was, surely they had a reason for the smaller size. But you can't ignore the fact that so many people complain about bad seating and line of sight to the stage. That can't be a coincidence. These complaints started flowing in as soon as Vista set sail, then they repeated the layout on Horizon. Will they listen to their customers and make any changes on Panorama, or do they simply not care? What I don't get is, after decades of experience with over 30 ships throughout its history, how could they design it so poorly? You'd think they'd have designing a theater figured out by now.


People are complaining because it's true.  For the balcony, the only good seats are in the very middle (one row) or the front row on either side.  Anything else and your vision will be blocked by heads.  For the lower floor, there are movable chairs in the middle instead of the more stadium type seating.  The theater is simply not set up as well as the smaller ships.

I think they set it up that way for two reasons.  1.  So they could move some of the entertainment to the middle of the lower floor and get those people seated in that area involved in the performance.  2.  So that they could later move the chairs out of the way and use the room in other ways.

The result is a very poor setup for viewing shows.  Because of this, and the extra long lines at the adult comedy shows, my husband and I won't cruise on this size ship again.  Carnival is number one when it comes to comedy, so that's something we enjoy several times a night.  We also like to actually see the theater shows without showing up miserably early to stand in line.  When they opened the doors, some people literally ran to the good chairs.  I am not going to run to get a good seat.  LOL  Anyway, the complaints are legitimate.  The theater obviously is not a negative for everyone.  Different strokes for different folks.

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4 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

People are complaining because it's true. 


Anyway, the complaints are legitimate.

 

That's what I meant when I said you can't ignore the fact that so many are complaining about the same thing. The complaints started from the moment people first experienced the Liquid Lounge on Vista and has continued to be one of the biggest complaints for both Vista and Horizon. If it were just a few unhappy folks, it'd be one thing, but with as many negative comments as it's gotten, it's something they shouldn't ignore (but probably will).

 

4 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

For the lower floor, there are movable chairs in the middle instead of the more stadium type seating.  The theater is simply not set up as well as the smaller ships.

We also like to actually see the theater shows without showing up miserably early to stand in line.  When they opened the doors, some people literally ran to the good chairs.  I am not going to run to get a good seat.  LOL

 

On the Conquest class, the lower floor is all bench style seating with the small tables. It's nice to have a place to set a drink or whatever.

 

I feel the same way about showing up real early. A lot of people say, "It's no big deal, just show up 30 minutes early to get a good seat." I don't want to sit there for half an hour twiddling my thumbs just to get a decent seat for a Playlist or comedy show. Having to show up that early for every show we want to see would seriously alter our evening plans every night. I don't think that's something people should have to do because Carnival got it wrong.

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2 hours ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I feel the same way about showing up real early. A lot of people say, "It's no big deal, just show up 30 minutes early to get a good seat." I don't want to sit there for half an hour twiddling my thumbs just to get a decent seat for a Playlist or comedy show. Having to show up that early for every show we want to see would seriously alter our evening plans every night. I don't think that's something people should have to do because Carnival got it wrong.

More than likely you will not have the same problem on the Mardi Gras if you do decide to cruise on her.  Because of the amount of people on board, Carnival will more than likely adopt the same reservation ahead of time process similar to what Royal and NCL have on their mega ships.  The downside is having to figure out ahead of time what you wish to see and when long before you embark.  The positive is that you can just show up up to 10 minutes ahead of time and you will have a guaranteed seat.  If you don't want to reserve ahead of time, then stand in the stand by line.

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13 hours ago, ricew001 said:

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! The adult soup gets a big no from me and so do the annoying rugrats. So I'm happy I have an option to avoid all that. I'm planning to do the Havana balcony in 3 years for our 30th anniversary so I'm watching all these posts closely to learn all I can. I may be wrong but Havana sounds like just what the doctor ordered for hubby and me!

 

Agree. We are in the rugrat category so Carnival is still a good fit for us, but our one and only is now a teen and we may feel differently soon. And that very aspect is exactly why many people avoid Carnival entirely. You would have to think they heard feedback for years from their loyal but aging, empty nest clientele that they would like options to stick with the line but not necessarily spend their whole week right in the middle of the family/kiddie market.  And that they are becoming more comfortable financially and now willing to pay more for upgrades.  And yes, Carnival's job as a business is to generate revenue and the way to do that is to provide value that customers are willing to pay for.  The suites, spa cabins, and other upgrades like deluxe cabins with the extra washroom, panoramic outsides, extended balconies, etc. must have been selling well enough to show demand for upgrades was exceeding existing supply.

 

I don't agree though that Carnival was never innovative. The idea of affordable cruising in a casual atmosphere for the masses was not only innovative, it likely saved what was a dying industry that had previously mostly appealed to a mature and well-heeled customer.  I clearly remember my mom telling me during the first seasons of The Love Boat, that cruising was on its last legs.  But the show, silly as it was, helped revive interest and then Carnival offered something we blue collar folks could afford and not feel out of place among the nobility.  They are not turning their backs on this core market, just providing options for certain customers who would not otherwise consider them or who would otherwise consider moving up to a higher tier brand.

 

But this is jmho and I'm not loyal anyway.  We all vote with our dollar as we should.  Vacations are rare and expensive and carry stresses of their own and we should all choose carefully. Luckily the world offers countless options to appeal to all.

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