Proof as to why non-disabled are booking cabins for disabled

[SeaBurd]

For those who need mobility devices but not the other amenities in the fully accessible HC cabins, may I suggest they consider a small electric scooter or chair.  An internet search for "lightweight folding electric wheelchairs" will provide a host of options. 

 

We chose one of these since we didn't want to have to modify our car to accommodate a standard power wheelchair for my husband.  The one we have folds and fits easily into our vehilcle.  It is light enough we can lift it ourselves.  It also has a very tight turning radius.  While we do occasionally need to move a cleaning cart to the side, it is small enough to maneuver through the ship's passageways.   If we didn't need the roll in shower we could book almost any cabin!  

[GUT2407]

42 minutes ago, SeaBurd said:

For those who need mobility devices but not the other amenities in the fully accessible HC cabins, may I suggest they consider a small electric scooter or chair.  An internet search for "lightweight folding electric wheelchairs" will provide a host of options. 

 

We chose one of these since we didn't want to have to modify our car to accommodate a standard power wheelchair for my husband.  The one we have folds and fits easily into our vehilcle.  It is light enough we can lift it ourselves.  It also has a very tight turning radius.  While we do occasionally need to move a cleaning cart to the side, it is small enough to maneuver through the ship's passageways.   If we didn't need the roll in shower we could book almost any cabin!  

My power wheelchairs all fold in some way, unless I can get out of it to get from the door of the cabin to the bed, I still need a larger doorway, if I can get out, I need someone with me to get the chair into the cabin, there goes anything remotely like independence, 

[SeaBurd]

I guess we are just more fortunate.  He is not confined to the chair all the time.  With his prosthetic leg in place, he can walk for short distances.  We can then get his chair through a doorway.  While it isn't the easiest thing in the world, he can actually manage to do it himself... as long as he is wearing his leg!

[mexico8]

A future cruise we would like to take with MSC for September 2020 has 42 accessible cabins.   We tried to book one of them (now 13 months ahead) and NONE are available.   We will keep checking but it is getting harder and harder to get an accessible cabin even a year ahead of time.

[gadaboutgal]

Mexico8, which cruise were you looking at for Sept.  2020 on MSC?  

We like cruising MSC a lot and are trying Meraviglia for the first time in November.

[gadaboutgal]

You know with the aging of the world's population-especially in the U.S.- no wonder accessible cabins are becoming more difficult to reserve.  We can expect that over the next 20 years or so it is only get much worse as the number of retirees grows tremendously and the health of so many of these elderly cruisers declines. 

[mexico8]

20 hours ago, gadaboutgal said:

Mexico8, which cruise were you looking at for Sept.  2020 on MSC?  

We like cruising MSC a lot and are trying Meraviglia for the first time in November.

I made a mistake on the date.   We called and found out it is this year (not 2020).   It is the Splendida (MSC) on November 12, 2019  from Genoa, Italy.   They don't appear to have it next November.  

[gadaboutgal]

I have access to seeing all cabins available on most all cruise lines.  Splendida is not scheduled to sail  from Genoa any time in the future.  If you want to, let me know what length cruise were you looking at from Genoa and when did you want to sail; maybe I can see if a ship and accessible cabin is available for you for November 2019.

(The Seaview out of Genoa on 11/2/19 does have an interior accessible cabin available.)

Edited September 1, 2019 by gadaboutgal

[GUT2407]

22 hours ago, gadaboutgal said:

You know with the aging of the world's population-especially in the U.S.- no wonder accessible cabins are becoming more difficult to reserve.  We can expect that over the next 20 years or so it is only get much worse as the number of retirees grows tremendously and the health of so many of these elderly cruisers declines. 

But some lines this ageing population is their target demographic, so they may need to rethink their accessible cabin plans.

[lenquixote66]

I am disabled. I actually have 5 different medical problems any of which qualify me for needing an accessible cabin . I cannot cruise in a regular cabin.

In my opinion it should be mandatory for the cruise line to require a letter signed by a medical doctor stating that the person is disabled and the nature of the disability.

 

Unfortunately many people who have elite status on cruise lines are given accessible cabins.This was told to me by an employee of a cruise line.

[raindropsalways]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I am disabled. I actually have 5 different medical problems any of which qualify me for needing an accessible cabin . I cannot cruise in a regular cabin.

In my opinion it should be mandatory for the cruise line to require a letter signed by a medical doctor stating that the person is disabled and the nature of the disability.

 

Unfortunately many people who have elite status on cruise lines are given accessible cabins.This was told to me by an employee of a cruise line.

 

I agree with you, however, that was declared a “no no” by the handicap many years ago. Their logic was that such a letter included “personal” information that was none of the ship's business. And as I understand, those individual won their quest to prevent such a letter. In my personal opinion, I think they were crazy. The more people that know my problems, the safer I am. I travel with a letter indicating my problems and my needs and my doctor up-dates it every year, thus kept current along with a complete list of my prescriptions.

 

In my particular case, I did have an accident on a cruise where I broke my hip and was sent to Grenada General Hospital. The doctor on the ship, the doctor at Grenada Hospital, the doctor at Broward Hospital (Fort Lauderdale) and the doctor at the nursing home in Minneapolis all thanked and complimented me on my documentation. Also, I do always have travel insurance. NOTE: There is a private hospital on Grenada that the ships normally send cruisers to. However, one of the ship's tours was involved in an accident and all those injured cruisers ended up filling that hospital.

 

In addition, the problems they are having with support animals has proven that various doctors will falsify letters, whereas, the majority of doctors will not falsify government documents. That is the reason I suggested using the HC parking permit. At present, I think there is just too many that would preferred there was no way to prove handicap.

 

For economic purposes, the cruise lines will probably continue to provide the minimum number of cabins possible as long as possible. As long as they keep filling the ships, there is no need to add the additional cost and decrease the number of cabins by increasing the size of a few. Yes, it is very disheartening, but it is business and the profits is what the cruise lines are looking at..

 

Actually, it sounds like a few that posted on this thread are more interested in preventing the ship from being able to verify need. Regardless, I'm doing what I think will help. As a random individual, I doubt that I will accomplish anything, but at least I've tried. Regardless, I am still open to feasible suggestions that are aimed at stopping the non-disabled. The few disabled that abuse the system are not the problem.

 

I'm not sure as to the time element, however at a specific number of days before the cruise departure date, any cabins for the disabled not booked are released into general bookings. I really doubt that the cruise lines would violate the rules by giving to the elite before that date.

[Bloodgem]

4 hours ago, raindropsalways said:

Actually, it sounds like a few that posted on this thread are more interested in preventing the ship from being able to verify need. Regardless, I'm doing what I think will help. As a random individual, I doubt that I will accomplish anything, but at least I've tried. Regardless, I am still open to feasible suggestions that are aimed at stopping the non-disabled. The few disabled that abuse the system are not the problem.

 

It is not one rule for 'them' (able bodied) and one rule for 'us' (disabled).  Those disable people that abuse the system are just as bad as the able bodied that abuse the system. 

 

[raindropsalways]

Cruises are not the only place this attitude appears.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kristen-walbieser-wheelchair-stands-up-disney-world-115843330.html

 

And in regards to disabled abusing the system.  The numbers there are not in the masses.  It is very rare, regardless it should not happen.  Regardless, the point I'm attempting is the fact that it is not the major problem plus they would not have to do it if the major problem was stopped.

[SeaBurd]

On 8/31/2019 at 7:13 PM, gadaboutgal said:

You know with the aging of the world's population-especially in the U.S.- no wonder accessible cabins are becoming more difficult to reserve.  We can expect that over the next 20 years or so it is only get much worse as the number of retirees grows tremendously and the health of so many of these elderly cruisers declines. 

 

If mobility is the issue and the other accommodations in an accessible cabin are not needed, it seems the issue is the size of the cabin and the mobility device used.  Perhaps a scooter instead of a wheelchair would be more practical in terms of size, weight, and cost.

 

Just did an internet search for "narrow electric scooters" and came up with some whose width is less than the 23" - 24" doorway width for standard cabins and a turning radius of less than 5'.  Here are 2 links to a fairly good selection of 4 wheel travel scooters:

https://www.spinlife.com/critpath/match.cfm?categoryID=237

http://www.discovermymobility.com/store/scooters/

[lenquixote66]

10 hours ago, raindropsalways said:

 

I agree with you, however, that was declared a “no no” by the handicap many years ago. Their logic was that such a letter included “personal” information that was none of the ship's business. And as I understand, those individual won their quest to prevent such a letter. In my personal opinion, I think they were crazy. The more people that know my problems, the safer I am. I travel with a letter indicating my problems and my needs and my doctor up-dates it every year, thus kept current along with a complete list of my prescriptions.

 

In my particular case, I did have an accident on a cruise where I broke my hip and was sent to Grenada General Hospital. The doctor on the ship, the doctor at Grenada Hospital, the doctor at Broward Hospital (Fort Lauderdale) and the doctor at the nursing home in Minneapolis all thanked and complimented me on my documentation. Also, I do always have travel insurance. NOTE: There is a private hospital on Grenada that the ships normally send cruisers to. However, one of the ship's tours was involved in an accident and all those injured cruisers ended up filling that hospital.

 

In addition, the problems they are having with support animals has proven that various doctors will falsify letters, whereas, the majority of doctors will not falsify government documents. That is the reason I suggested using the HC parking permit. At present, I think there is just too many that would preferred there was no way to prove handicap.

 

For economic purposes, the cruise lines will probably continue to provide the minimum number of cabins possible as long as possible. As long as they keep filling the ships, there is no need to add the additional cost and decrease the number of cabins by increasing the size of a few. Yes, it is very disheartening, but it is business and the profits is what the cruise lines are looking at..

 

Actually, it sounds like a few that posted on this thread are more interested in preventing the ship from being able to verify need. Regardless, I'm doing what I think will help. As a random individual, I doubt that I will accomplish anything, but at least I've tried. Regardless, I am still open to feasible suggestions that are aimed at stopping the non-disabled. The few disabled that abuse the system are not the problem.

 

I'm not sure as to the time element, however at a specific number of days before the cruise departure date, any cabins for the disabled not booked are released into general bookings. I really doubt that the cruise lines would violate the rules by giving to the elite before that date.

I am cruising on NCL next month and RCI in December.Both cruise lines sent me forms to be completed by a medical doctor.

[SeaBurd]

On 8/29/2019 at 6:23 PM, raindropsalways said:

Also, if anyone is aware of a mailing address (US mail or Email) for ADA, please share it. A form letter from multiple people would not offer as much of an impression as a distinct letter for each and every one.

 

 

Information found on the ADA website today:

Disability Rights Section Mailing Address

U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section - NYA 
Washington, D.C. 20530

 

Section Phone Number: (202) 307-0663

 

Chief: Rebecca B. Bond
Principal Deputy Chief: Anne Raish
Deputy Chiefs: Christina Galindo-Walsh, Kevin Kijewski, Amanda Maisels, Jennifer McDannell, Elizabeth Westfall

[Bloodgem]

I know that both able bodied and disabled people abuse accessible cabins but where is your proof that more able bodied abuse the system than disabled people? 

[jpcello]

12 minutes ago, SeaBurd said:

 

Information found on the ADA website today:

Disability Rights Section Mailing Address

U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Civil Rights Division
Disability Rights Section - NYA 
Washington, D.C. 20530

 

Section Phone Number: (202) 307-0663

 

Chief: Rebecca B. Bond
Principal Deputy Chief: Anne Raish
Deputy Chiefs: Christina Galindo-Walsh, Kevin Kijewski, Amanda Maisels, Jennifer McDannell, Elizabeth Westfall

The ADA only covers cruise ships that fly US flags. Even cruises leaving from US ports do not have to follow or abide by the ADA because they're not US flagged ships. I think only in Hawaii are there a couple of US flagged ships. 

[SeaBurd]

2 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I am cruising on NCL next month and RCI in December.Both cruise lines sent me forms to be completed by a medical doctor.

 

We got forms from both RCI and NCL for recent cruises.  Neither was to be completed by a medical doctor.  The one from RCI had a checkbox following this statement: "I require an accessible stateroom because I have a mobility disability or other disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the stateroom."  The NCL form was much more extensive and asks if passenger has mobility difficulties and if "yes" to specify. 

 

[gadaboutgal]

I, also, have to complete the forms for Royal Caribbean and MSC.  Neither request a Doctor's signature for anything.

Thankfully, a business is not permitted to ask about your disability.  I find that information private and of no one's concern except me, my family, and my doctor.

Edited September 2, 2019 by gadaboutgal

[lenquixote66]

6 minutes ago, gadaboutgal said:

I, also, have to complete the forms for Royal Caribbean and MSC.  Neither request a Doctor's signature for anything.

Thankfully, a business is not permitted to ask about your disability.  I find that information private and of no one's concern except me, my family, and my doctor.

I called NCL before I got the form and stated that I know that people who are not disabled are getting handicapped cabins.I said that a letter from a doctor should be mandatory. I have no problem with anyone knowing what I am dealing with.I openly discuss it.

The only time I can see privacy being an issue if it is an HIV related disability.

This is my opinion ,no need to response.I am not looking for nor will Imparticipate in a debate.

[raindropsalways]

Thanks you for the address. That will be a great help.

 

You have a very valid point about the small scooters. However, many of the people that use small mobility scooters is because of another more serious medical condition. In my case, my legs work, my lungs is the problem, plus a few other contributing issues. I never leave home without inhalers and nitro. And yes, BP is also a serious issue for me, along with breathing. I also travel with proper equipment to check my BP.

 

Ruth had Charcot-Marie-Tooth. All her physical movements were limited. We struggled more than once getting her up off the floor.

 

Both our scooters were the small ones for our own convenience. And yes, we sailed in many standard cabins because no accessible available. Not only is the doorway small, the cabin is small and where do you park a scooter? Two scooters in some accessible cabins can even be tight; very tight. Even the shower is cramped with a shower stool in a standard cabin. The riser does not make much of an impact on overall space. We made it work. Fortunately, neither of us spent much time in the cabin. We wanted to see the world, the cabin a place to sleep and bathe.

 

For my up-coming cruises, I submitted my forms for Carnival and Princess in June and both required signature, not my doctor's signature and it only covers my needs. There is nothing on the form that indicates what is physically wrong with me. For my NCL cruise in 2021, I also submitted my form for my needs in July, once again, signature is required and I only had to indicate my needs. On the bottom of all the forms, it indicates signature required. Nothing even suggest doctor's signature. Basically the exact same forms I've been submitting for over ten years.

 

I do not remember where I read about the ADA applying to all ships sailing from U.S. ports. The only comments I heard about NCL's ship is the fact that they have to pay the US minimum wages. Take notice sometime of the various European lines that offer transatlantic cruises; excluding Cunard. Most of those ships do not dock in the US. Yes, there are a few ships in those lines that do dock at US ports occasionally.

 

Really doubt that it would matter if a doctor fills it out as long as he or she did not include your illness.... the “personal” information. The letter I travel with from my doctor is for my safety As I stated in another post, I carry a letter signed by my doctor at all times. It is basically for my own protection and has served me well. I had an emergency and was not exactly coherent at the time. That letter covered the major issues and aided all the doctors I saw along the way.

[GUT2407]

6 hours ago, SeaBurd said:

 

If mobility is the issue and the other accommodations in an accessible cabin are not needed, it seems the issue is the size of the cabin and the mobility device used.  Perhaps a scooter instead of a wheelchair would be more practical in terms of size, weight, and cost.

 

Just did an internet search for "narrow electric scooters" and came up with some whose width is less than the 23" - 24" doorway width for standard cabins and a turning radius of less than 5'.  Here are 2 links to a fairly good selection of 4 wheel travel scooters:

https://www.spinlife.com/critpath/match.cfm?categoryID=237

http://www.discovermymobility.com/store/scooters/

And what if you. 6’3” and 120k ever try one of those scooters for days on end?

Edited September 2, 2019 by GUT2407

[raindropsalways]

SeaBurd - Why on earth would you assume that those of us on small mobility scooters do not need the other aspects of an accessible cabin? Unfortunately, it seems that the many fail to understand that most of us on mobility scooters are there due to serious medical issues, not necessarily a problem with the legs or inability to walk. If I could breath when I walk and my heart would simmer down on the drum beats, I would not need a mobility scooter to start with. Plus a few other issues require most of the things in the HC cabins. However, in the past 15 years there has been minor improvements and due to the quality of air on the cruise ships, I no longer have to tote a POC along. Regardless, I still have to limit activities, which are becoming less and less every year. In my case, and I would also assume others, the physical exertion prevents me from breathing normal and grasping for air becomes a challenge.

 

On the realistic side, just how many people do you think enjoy being stuck on a scooter the majority of the day. It is no fun. True, there are some that are using scooters to assist, not necessarily a medical requirement. I do not know if those individuals are booking standard cabins or HC cabins. Regardless, I have a tendency to believe that they are booking the HC cabins on the assumption that is what they should book. Also, if they are experiencing difficulties walking, it seems the grab bars would be very essential.

 

A logic question. When a person is operating a motor vehicle they have to abide all the local laws and the vehicle has to be on compliance with the local laws of that country. Why wouldn't a ship sailing in that country's waters be compelled to abide by that country's laws? That just does not make any sense.

 

Gut2407. Please do not even try one of the small mobility scooters. Even down to the 130 – 140 lbs, the small scooters will tip very easily. I can guarantee you that I would not be able to pick you up.

 

Betty

[GUT2407]

9 minutes ago, raindropsalways said:

SeaBurd - Why on earth would you assume that those of us on small mobility scooters do not need the other aspects of an accessible cabin? Unfortunately, it seems that the many fail to understand that most of us on mobility scooters are there due to serious medical issues, not necessarily a problem with the legs or inability to walk. If I could breath when I walk and my heart would simmer down on the drum beats, I would not need a mobility scooter to start with. Plus a few other issues require most of the things in the HC cabins. However, in the past 15 years there has been minor improvements and due to the quality of air on the cruise ships, I no longer have to tote a POC along. Regardless, I still have to limit activities, which are becoming less and less every year. In my case, and I would also assume others, the physical exertion prevents me from breathing normal and grasping for air becomes a challenge.

 

On the realistic side, just how many people do you think enjoy being stuck on a scooter the majority of the day. It is no fun. True, there are some that are using scooters to assist, not necessarily a medical requirement. I do not know if those individuals are booking standard cabins or HC cabins. Regardless, I have a tendency to believe that they are booking the HC cabins on the assumption that is what they should book. Also, if they are experiencing difficulties walking, it seems the grab bars would be very essential.

 

A logic question. When a person is operating a motor vehicle they have to abide all the local laws and the vehicle has to be on compliance with the local laws of that country. Why wouldn't a ship sailing in that country's waters be compelled to abide by that country's laws? That just does not make any sense.

 

Gut2407. Please do not even try one of the small mobility scooters. Even down to the 130 – 140 lbs, the small scooters will tip very easily. I can guarantee you that I would not be able to pick you up.

 

Betty

Thanks Betty, no plans at all of trying a little scooter, I have used them when they are provided at events, but I much prefer one of my power wheelchairs, I currently have two, with a third on order, and have had three previous ones. They work way better for me than a scooter, and yes I am one of the lucky ones that still has some mobility.