Carnival Corp. sued over COVID negligence

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Seems a hard battle to prove Carnival has fault.  First, Carnival is incorporated in Panama -- I believe they have a different set of rules and laws when it come to lawsuits.  Second, it's hard to prove when and where a person got the covid.  The person bringing suit could be the perpetrator that brought covid onboard and spread the covid to begin with.

From this lay person's point of view, a lawsuit seem frivolous.  
 

No lawsuit regarding the death of a customer is frivolous.

[BlerkOne]

28 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

They are held to the same standard.  Trust me if someone contact traces the infection back to a barber shop they will get sued especially if they took no precautions which the cruise line did not.  The lawsuits are coming, don't worry about that.   Its even worse for the cruise ship because a lot of these people were stuck longer on the ship than the incubation period so it was caught on the ship.  Any lawyer worth their weight will be able to prove that.  I agree under normal circumstances the cruise lines do take very good care of the passengers.  But in this situation they should not have sailed.  It was about the money.

 

I'm not worried about lawsuits and neither is Carnival and I don't care how much your lawyer weighs. You said it yourself - cruise lines take care of their passengers. These were not normal circumstances and nobody could see it coming. It isn't the fault of the cruise line that passengers were unable to disembark.

 

Here is a Carnival ship that started cruising before the pandemic was announced and continued long after with no cases of the virus.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/world-cruise-begun-virus-pandemic-approaching-spain

[paulgraff]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:06 AM, BlerkOne said:

The suit will go nowhere. Not sure what the ambulance chaser is after. Perhaps they should read the ticket contract section on class action suits.

Maybe it won't go anywhere, but CCL will still have to defend it and that will cost big time money defending itself.

 

[naxer]

This is why I wonder if it's feasible that cruising sill start before a vaccine.  Now that we know what we know, how does a cruise line legally protect itself against someone without symptoms getting on a ship (or what happens if someone with symptoms falls through the cracks and gets on?), and the virus spreading? or heaven forbid, a quarantine. While every sailing has potential for a lawsuit, this virus makes some unique situations, and even if CCL isn't held liable, there is a lot of time and money and PR work involved in defending itself.

Edited June 7, 2020 by naxer

[jimbo5544]

6 hours ago, paulgraff said:

Maybe it won't go anywhere, but CCL will still have to defend it and that will cost big time money defending itself.

 

The only winner in any class action are the ambulance chasers.  

[jimbo5544]

41 minutes ago, naxer said:

This is why I wonder if it's feasible that cruising sill start before a vaccine.  Now that we know what we know, how does a cruise line legally protect itself against someone without symptoms getting on a ship (or what happens if someone with symptoms falls through the cracks and gets on?), and the virus spreading? or heaven forbid, a quarantine. While every sailing has potential for a lawsuit, this virus makes some unique situations, and even if CCL isn't held liable, there is a lot of time and money and PR work involved in defending itself.

With your logic, they should wait till the vaccine is proven as well, say 3 or 4 years, just to be sure that a new wave might have migrated to a new strain, then wait till the new vaccine etc etc..  waiting that long in untenable they will be out of business, so the point is moot.   

[lobster1313]

1 hour ago, naxer said:

This is why I wonder if it's feasible that cruising sill start before a vaccine.  Now that we know what we know, how does a cruise line legally protect itself against someone without symptoms getting on a ship (or what happens if someone with symptoms falls through the cracks and gets on?), and the virus spreading? or heaven forbid, a quarantine. While every sailing has potential for a lawsuit, this virus makes some unique situations, and even if CCL isn't held liable, there is a lot of time and money and PR work involved in defending itself.

The problem is that no one knows what will happen so all they can do is prepare the best they can with the information they have now and then develop a plan to restart operations.  A lot of the predictions about the virus haven't happened like Florida being worse than Italy or cities needing even tens of thousands of ventilators so a vaccine may or may not be effective or even needed just like the vaccines they developed for sars.

[cementhands]

Act of God defense works everywhere but California. Things are different in CA. When cruising restarts signing a waiver for covid19 might be a thing. 

[BlerkOne]

12 hours ago, paulgraff said:

Maybe it won't go anywhere, but CCL will still have to defend it and that will cost big time money defending itself.

 

 

I doubt the lawsuits will last long enough to make it to court and Carnival has a number of attorneys on staff to deal with the preliminaries. You can try to sue anyone for any reason and lots of people try to sue Carnival. Very few suits make it to court.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, cementhands said:

Act of God defense works everywhere but California. Things are different in CA. When cruising restarts signing a waiver for covid19 might be a thing. 

 

The ticket contract is clear that lawsuits must be filed and tried in Florida.

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

The only winner in any class action are the ambulance chasers.  

 

The ticket contract addresses class action law suits.

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

The problem is that no one knows what will happen so all they can do is prepare the best they can with the information they have now and then develop a plan to restart operations.  A lot of the predictions about the virus haven't happened like Florida being worse than Italy or cities needing even tens of thousands of ventilators so a vaccine may or may not be effective or even needed just like the vaccines they developed for sars.

 

3 days ago, Florida set a personal best record for number of new cases in a day.

[jimbo5544]

37 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

The ticket contract addresses class action law suits.

Understand, more of a general statement.  

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, fyree39 said:

I once had a professor who was also a lawyer and a retired judge. He said contracts always have loopholes. I'm with you in that any lawsuit dealing with COVID will go nowhere, but a contract isn't always the final answer.

 

No, but first someone would have to get the contract, or the applicable part, tossed as illegal and it's been tried a lot. Carnival learns and updates the contract regularly. It is a living document.

[lobster1313]

39 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

3 days ago, Florida set a personal best record for number of new cases in a day.

Most of that is from the increase in testing and finally reaching out to the underserved communities like Immokalee where they haven't been testing.

Edited June 7, 2020 by regoodwinjr

[BlerkOne]

Just now, regoodwinjr said:

Most of that is from the increase in testing and finally reaching out to the underserved communities like Immokalee where they haven't been testing.

 

It is a popular argument that doesn't mean much. The death count is also rising in Florida. As one stable genius once said, if we didn't test, we wouldn't have any cases.

[jimbo5544]

35 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

3 days ago, Florida set a personal best record for number of new cases in a day.

I will worry when hospitalizations go up 

[naxer]

9 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

With your logic, they should wait till the vaccine is proven as well, say 3 or 4 years, just to be sure that a new wave might have migrated to a new strain, then wait till the new vaccine etc etc..  waiting that long in untenable they will be out of business, so the point is moot.   

Well, yes, you can stretch any argument out one way or the other.  In the end, laws and judgments draw the, somewhat, arbitrary lines of due diligence and risk aversion.  It's not going to be an easy or clear answer for cruise lines, school systems, and most entertainment venues.  Complicating the situation is that nobody trusts anything anyone is saying.  

[naxer]

8 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

The problem is that no one knows what will happen so all they can do is prepare the best they can with the information they have now and then develop a plan to restart operations.  

That's very true.  And only time will tell what's adequate in the inevitable civil suits.  

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, naxer said:

Well, yes, you can stretch any argument out one way or the other.  In the end, laws and judgments draw the, somewhat, arbitrary lines of due diligence and risk aversion.  It's not going to be an easy or clear answer for cruise lines, school systems, and most entertainment venues.  Complicating the situation is that nobody trusts anything anyone is saying.  

My point was that there is a very small chance that Cruise lines can wait for a vaccine, and even if you did, there is nothing to say it will do as promised.  If we lived our life fearing lawsuits, we would do nothing.  

[Purvis1231]

On 6/2/2020 at 11:52 PM, lagienomai said:

All I can say is really. So much was unknown from what we know now. And to say the ships aren't cleaned between guests seems absurd to say the least. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/carnival-sued-by-passengers-alleging-negligence-over-covid-19/ar-BB14Wk85?li=BBnbfcN

We all new that a host of lawsuits would be hitting Carnival and the other cruises lines. I do not know what the outcomes will be but I think the governments that forced people to stay on the ships and refused to allow disembarkation at the first available port once an outbreak began have much of the blame. The CDC is still saying that there are not documented cases of surface transmission of the virus so the alleged lack of cleaning is not a proven means of transmission.  

[Purvis1231]

14 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

The only winner in any class action are the ambulance chasers.  

You are right, the cruise line might be willing to payout money to the families who lost loved ones but once the families sign with a lawyer it will be more difficult and will drag on for years since the lawyers will have to make sure they make a lot of money. . I imagine we will start seeing TV commercials asking for COVID-19 cruisers to join the suits. If I were the cruise line I would offer the next to kin of anyone who died on the ship a fair settlement to end this quickly. 

[jimbo5544]

11 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

You are right, the cruise line might be willing to payout money to the families who lost loved ones but once the families sign with a lawyer it will be more difficult and will drag on for years since the lawyers will have to make sure they make a lot of money. . I imagine we will start seeing TV commercials asking for COVID-19 cruisers to join the suits. If I were the cruise line I would offer the next to kin of anyone who died on the ship a fair settlement to end this quickly. 

End what?

[AmBear]

Its not just Carnival, but every cruise company, every corporation who stayed open in the beginning of the Pandemic! Walmart's been sued, and there will be others!

These cases are almost always settled, so talk about who pays lawyers, the companies pay theirs, and those who sued pay their lawyers out of their agreed settlement!

I mentioned this quite a while back in a few of my posts as to why if Carnival, or any of the other cruise lines start cruising while this Pandemic is still going on, (Florida just had their 5th straight day if over 1000 infections, all time high), then the lawsuits will continue, and the settlements will be larger!

Carnival also took all of their available cash through loans, sale of stock they had secured before the Pandemic, so there is a limited amount of cash/time Carnival has in deciding their path forward!

[AmBear]

20 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I will worry when hospitalizations go up 

They are going up, everyday! By how much we don't know cause the State was caught trying to fudge the numbers lower to help their reopening claims!

Its now 5 days in a row or 1000 or more infections! And the Ports areas are in counties where the virus is the worst!