Celebrity will NOT allow private/non-cruise line shore excursions after restart

[mom says]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

too funny

Care to elaborate? I fail to see the humour.

[LGW59]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:54 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

Interestingly, to me, the CDC Framework is completely silent on the topic of shore excursions. Nowhere is it mentioned that this will be required.

 

Similarly, I have not been able to find any document or guidance issued by any of the countries or ports involved in the Med cruises that started up toward the end of the summer season that REQUIRED ship-exclusive tours. 

 

I suspect this is an initiative solely of the cruise lines, who also stand to benefit significantly from it. After all, when you dig into it, there is virtually no way to create a "bubble" shore excursion -- and people who posted from various cruises undertaken in the Med have proved that point by describing excursions that included things like city walks. Really??  That is just not going to work. Ever.

 

I suspect it is an initiative by the cruise lines to 1.) protect their passengers from the fools who will just think it Ok to go off and do whatever pleases them. and 2.) to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits filed by the same people.  Don't like, just don't cruise yet.

[nocl]

40 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I suspect it is an initiative by the cruise lines to 1.) protect their passengers from the fools who will just think it Ok to go off and do whatever pleases them. and 2.) to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits filed by the same people.  Don't like, just don't cruise yet.

I suspect more your number 1 than number 2.

 

The trend started in Europe which is less likely to lawyer up than the US.

 

MSC, I think, was the first to make this a requirement.

Unfortunately the Italian government requirements for allowing MSC to sail are not public anywhere I can find them.  Since MSC was including some free excursions it doesn't seem as if they were using it as a revenue generating mechanism as some here have suggested.

[Miaminice]

4 hours ago, nocl said:

Thats funny but Sahin Ogur disagrees with you

 

In an interview on BBC One's Andrew Marr Show, Prof Sahin said he expected further analysis to show the vaccine would reduce transmission between people as well as stop symptoms developing in someone who has had the vaccine.

"I'm very confident that transmission between people will be reduced by such a highly effective vaccine - maybe not 90% but maybe 50% - but we should not forget that even that could result in a dramatic reduction of the pandemic spread," he said.

 

 

Of course as a CEO of a company he cannot make claims that have not been tested.  People in the industry and in regulatory authorities can only make claims that are supported by the appropriate trials. As of this date no trials have been conducted to determine if it prevents transmission and infection.  As a result no claims are made concerning it.

 

That is the main reason as you say there there are no studies to claim a "protective" side effect, is mainly because no studies have been run to test such.

 

Of course I can also point out that there are no studies that indicate that there is not, as a put it "a protective effect".  It is as of this time unknown

 

But for the CEO of one of the companies involved to make a statement such as the one above makes it pretty clear that he does not agree with the statement you made above.

 

Care to include any links to the specific statements you say support your interpretation such as the other virologists you vaguely mentioned.

 

No he doesn´t - 50% is not the protection YOU keep talking about...

The only thing that´s funny is that in very long words you keep confirming what I am saying 🙂

 

So far the protection from infection - even a partial one - is not proven. That is a simple fact. One that you keep confirming. 

 

No matter how often you keep reapeating that it might be there, that it could be 50%, that studies weren´t testing for it etc. etc. - the fact remains that for now your points and not mine are unknown. 

I will repeat it one more time. Maybe you will get off my back then. I am not saying that it´s impossible. What´s close to a fact is that in terms of Covid prevention the efficacy is unexpectedly high and the prevention of infection - and therefore spreading - will be (much) lower if it´s there.
We will have to wait for exact numbers.

 

For now, as you say yourself, there are no numbers and studies regarding the topic. Until there are, I will not join you in spreading maybes or perhabses but simply stick to the known facts and be happy about good news if and when it comes. Regardless of you disputing the facts by repeating possibilities. I will not be celebrating BEFORE the birthday!

If you want to do exactly that - be my guest! If you want to keep discussing about it, go on. 
For me this is a perfect "yes dear" moment 🙂 I can very well live with having a different or more conservative view on a subject that we actually agree on: the vaccines are a blessing! 

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

MSC, I think, was the first to make this a requirement.

Unfortunately the Italian government requirements for allowing MSC to sail are not public anywhere I can find them.  Since MSC was including some free excursions it doesn't seem as if they were using it as a revenue generating mechanism as some here have suggested.

 

It´s part of the EU guidelines European cruise lines had to follow and agree to in order to receive the permission to sail.
 

So MSC had to make it a requirement. However, they were not the first by far. To the best of my knowledge TUI Cruises were the first to actually start cruises with port stops (in Greece) after many cruises to nowhere from Germany. We did one of the Greece cruises in October.

Aida and MSC planned to do the same around the same time but couldn´t sail until weeks later. They even had to cancel quite a few cruises already sold. Since both lines sail under Italian flags, they had to wait for the additional approval from Italy - which came much later than expected.

 

MSC doesn´t really offer free excursions. They offer a package of three included excursion under one price model.

I can confirm, however, that neither TUI nor MSC are using the situation. Excursions on both lines are very reasonably priced. We paid something like 35 Euro for a 5 hour e-bike tour. Full day tours were around 60-70 Euro. Compared to Celebrity that´s a bargain.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Miaminice

[Miaminice]

7 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

 

 

Sorry, hit the wrong button... 🙂

Edited November 22, 2020 by Miaminice

[nocl]

8 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

 

No he doesn´t - 50% is not the protection YOU keep talking about...

The only thing that´s funny is that in very long words you keep confirming what I am saying 🙂

 

So far the protection from infection - even a partial one - is not proven. That is a simple fact. One that you keep confirming. 

 

No matter how often you keep reapeating that it might be there, that it could be 50%, that studies weren´t testing for it etc. etc. - the fact remains that for now your points and not mine are unknown. 

I will repeat it one more time. Maybe you will get off my back then. I am not saying that it´s impossible. What´s close to a fact is that in terms of Covid prevention the efficacy is unexpectedly high and the prevention of infection - and therefore spreading - will be (much) lower if it´s there.
We will have to wait for exact numbers.

 

For now, as you say yourself, there are no numbers and studies regarding the topic. Until there are, I will not join you in spreading maybes or perhabses but simply stick to the known facts and be happy about good news if and when it comes. Regardless of you disputing the facts by repeating possibilities. I will not be celebrating BEFORE the birthday!

If you want to do exactly that - be my guest! If you want to keep discussing about it, go on. 
For me this is a perfect "yes dear" moment 🙂 I can very well live with having a different or more conservative view on a subject that we actually agree on: the vaccines are a blessing! 

You were the one posting as if it was a certainty that the vaccines would not provide protection from infection or transmission.

 

All I did was point out that it is currently unknown, and they may or may not provide such protections

 

to which you stated that Sahin agreed with your position that it was known that they did not. Again all I did was point out that he had different expectations once additional analysis was done.

 

 

 

i am not making any claims only that the vaccines ability to prevent infection

or transmission is currently unknown.

 

Counter to your previous statement that they do not.

 

[Miaminice]

8 minutes ago, nocl said:

You were the one posting as if it was a certainty that the vaccines would not provide protection from infection or transmission.

 

All I did was point out that it is currently unknown, and they may or may not provide such protections

 

to which you stated that Sahin agreed with your position that it was known that they did not. Again all I did was point out that he had different expectations once additional analysis was done.

 

 

 

i am not making any claims only that the vaccines ability to prevent infection

or transmission is currently unknown.

 

Counter to your previous statement that they do not.

 

Read my posts here and check at which point they mention anything else but the current state of knowledge. So we are turning in circles...

 

As I said: YES DEAR 🙂

Edited November 22, 2020 by Miaminice

[mickey89]

4 hours ago, Miaminice said:

...... Since both lines sail under Italian flags, they had to wait for the additional approval from Italy - which came much later than expected.......

 

 

 

Factually incorrect.......Either TUi or MSC operate under Italian Flags.  

Both operate under Flags of Convenience -   Panama or Malta.

 

[Miaminice]

1 hour ago, mickey89 said:

 

Factually incorrect.......Either TUi or MSC operate under Italian Flags.  

Both operate under Flags of Convenience -   Panama or Malta.

 

🙄 Sorry you are correct about MSCs flag. I had three cruise lines in my mind which had a delayed start because of Italian authorities but only mentioned two...

All three only received a delayed go

- Aida, Italian flag

- Costa, Italian flag

- MSC, Malta, but only cruising to/from Italian ports at the moment - which is why the OK was required.

 

As mentioned TUI had no delay. The first cruises started in July (as much as I remember). And I never said that TUI sails under an Italian flag. The ships are registered in Valletta.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Miaminice