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Back to back bookings - any word yet if CDC will even allow them prior to Nov 1st?


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23 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I don't recall anything in the CDC guidelines preventing B2B cruises.  The reason you need to disembark and re-embark in the US in-between cruises is because they are so specific about considering them separate cruises.  

 

As to PCR tests - no one can say for sure if Celebrity will require them.  It is very difficult right now in many areas (including my own) to get a PCR test at all unless you have symptoms, let alone be able to get one that gives you results that quick.  Most testing sites by me take a minimum of 4 days to return results, and that is after you wait in line 3-4 hours, after getting up at 3:00 am to go sit in line at the test site.  You can only get them at a doctor's office if you have symptoms or have direct exposure to someone with diagnosed Covid.  Even if Celebrity requires PCR tests for cruising, I have to guess (which is all we can do now) that if they allow B2B guests they will not require a second PCR test as the passenger will have been required to wear masks, go on ship's excursions, etc..  

Testing availability is changing.  In Arizona they are advertising for people to come get tests.  Multiple locations in Tucson with no waiting today.

Would think by May when 7 day cruises are likely to be possible we will have all the rules spelled out.

Spoke to people in Canada this morning.  They stated and CBC reported that Canada has no plans to open its borders to tourism until COVID is gone.  While I don't take this literally, having cruise ships visit would be likely to be after admitting those driving or flying.  Look at Covid numbers there.  An outbreak in Toronto and they are locking down for 28 days.

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One of the most popular cruise youtube vloggers, Don's Family Vacations, who's a travel agent, just uploaded a video today on the subject today.

 

His summary:  CDC raised from level 3 to level 4 on 11/21 and mandated with a test a 7 day self-quarantine or 14 day self-quarantine without a test once you disembark the ship.  He also states if you book on two different lines the dept of homeland security will find you (lol).

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1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

One of the most popular cruise youtube vloggers, Don's Family Vacations, who's a travel agent, just uploaded a video today on the subject today.

 

His summary:  CDC raised from level 3 to level 4 on 11/21 and mandated with a test a 7 day self-quarantine or 14 day self-quarantine without a test once you disembark the ship.  He also states if you book on two different lines the dept of homeland security will find you (lol).

What's his source for the post cruise quarantine "mandate"?  Haven't seen anything about that.  Besides, who is going to enforce a "mandate" that you "self-quarantine"?  Maine has the same requirement that anyone entering the state (except from a very few neighboring states) must "self-quarantine".  I flew into Portland 10 days ago, there was no one to take contact information or where I was going to quarantine, and while I have been quarantined (quite comfortably at our lake house), no one has checked on me, even if they knew who I was or where I lived.  Is the CDC going to get a whole lot of new employees to do contact tracing and checking whether people are actually at their quarantine locations just for cruises?

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1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

What's his source for the post cruise quarantine "mandate"?  Haven't seen anything about that.  Besides, who is going to enforce a "mandate" that you "self-quarantine"?  Maine has the same requirement that anyone entering the state (except from a very few neighboring states) must "self-quarantine".  I flew into Portland 10 days ago, there was no one to take contact information or where I was going to quarantine, and while I have been quarantined (quite comfortably at our lake house), no one has checked on me, even if they knew who I was or where I lived.  Is the CDC going to get a whole lot of new employees to do contact tracing and checking whether people are actually at their quarantine locations just for cruises?

Don, while very entertaining, yes he is a TA, but he never checks facts, he takes snippets and sound bites from the news everyday and uses those as the basis for his daily videos, many of his followers call them his "daily rants" minus any logic of fact.

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1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

One of the most popular cruise youtube vloggers, Don's Family Vacations, who's a travel agent, just uploaded a video today on the subject today.

 

His summary:  CDC raised from level 3 to level 4 on 11/21 and mandated with a test a 7 day self-quarantine or 14 day self-quarantine without a test once you disembark the ship.  He also states if you book on two different lines the dept of homeland security will find you (lol).

You disembark a cruise and quarantine where exactly?  At home 1500 miles away from the port?  

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What's his source for the post cruise quarantine "mandate"?  Haven't seen anything about that.  Besides, who is going to enforce a "mandate" that you "self-quarantine"?  Maine has the same requirement that anyone entering the state (except from a very few neighboring states) must "self-quarantine".  I flew into Portland 10 days ago, there was no one to take contact information or where I was going to quarantine, and while I have been quarantined (quite comfortably at our lake house), no one has checked on me, even if they knew who I was or where I lived.  Is the CDC going to get a whole lot of new employees to do contact tracing and checking whether people are actually at their quarantine locations just for cruises?

 

2 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Don, while very entertaining, yes he is a TA, but he never checks facts, he takes snippets and sound bites from the news everyday and uses those as the basis for his daily videos, many of his followers call them his "daily rants" minus any logic of fact.

 

2 hours ago, D C said:

You disembark a cruise and quarantine where exactly?  At home 1500 miles away from the port?  

 

I'm simply parroting what a vlogger said, I would imagine there's a deeper dive CC thread on CCL or Royal

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36 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

 

I'm simply parroting what a vlogger said, I would imagine there's a deeper dive CC thread on CCL or Royal

I was not critiquing or questioning your thoughts, dude.  Just sharing that I have seen a number of his vids on his vlog.  He generally does not deal in facts, mostly all just opinion.  He is though a full-time TA, (primary business is cruising) so no doubt his business has sadly taken a huge hit.  He also gets paid by advertisers, so he is understandably trying to drive traffic to his site. 

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7 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I was not critiquing or questioning your thoughts, dude.  Just sharing that I have seen a number of his vids on his vlog.  He generally does not deal in facts, mostly all just opinion.  He is though a full-time TA, (primary business is cruising) so no doubt his business has sadly taken a huge hit.  He also gets paid by advertisers, so he is understandably trying to drive traffic to his site. 

 

Of course; I was sharing because he literally released that video yesterday titled "no more back to back cruises".  Other popular cruise Vloggers are saying the same thing yet their videos cover multiple cruise topics.  La Lido Loca mentioned the same change to level 4, after your cruise stay home 7 days if you test, 14 days if you don't test.

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Of course, all of this is speculation until the cruise lines that want to sail to US ports again start completing the CDC "no revenue" certification cruises for their applicable ships and subsequently post their official rules for cruising again. Until then we're all just guessing.

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I hope they allow back to back.   I have had 10 cruises canceled already, as far out as April 2022.  I have a back to back on Celebrity in June/July, unfortunately one is 8 nights and the other is 6.  I booked a sky suite (S1) aft corner suite, this would be my first time experiencing the Retreat, we usually book Aqua Class on Celebrity.  

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36 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Of course, all of this is speculation until the cruise lines that want to sail to US ports again start completing the CDC "no revenue" certification cruises for their applicable ships and subsequently post their official rules for cruising again. Until then we're all just guessing.

 

I have never done a B2B cruise and so I haven't paid too much attention to this but did find the source.  There are already other threads talking about B2B directly and/or the restrictions of level 4.  Sounds to me that it's pretty clear B2B will not happen until the CDC at least goes level 3.  I do question the enforcement of two cruises between different lines. 

 

Directly from the CDC (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship) website:

 

image.thumb.png.24b0db56830d06855b4ebe9cac68173b.png

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8 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I have never done a B2B cruise and so I haven't paid too much attention to this but did find the source.  There are already other threads talking about B2B directly and/or the restrictions of level 4.  Sounds to me that it's pretty clear B2B will not happen until the CDC at least goes level 3.  I do question the enforcement of two cruises between different lines. 

 

Directly from the CDC (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship) website:

 

image.thumb.png.24b0db56830d06855b4ebe9cac68173b.png

I'm not seeing how your highlighted entry suggests one cannot go on a B2B set of cruises. The only thing I'm reading is that they recommend you get tested 3-5 days after your trip ends.

Edited by Ken the cruiser
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11 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I'm not seeing how your highlighted entry suggests one cannot go on a B2B set of cruises. The only thing I'm reading is that they recommend you get tested 3-5 days after your trip ends.

 

Read the entire highlighted part; the "AND" is even bolded.

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I'm pretty sure the 13-day Alaskan cruisetour we booked quite a while ago for August 2021 will be off the table, at least for us, since we don't plan to cruise if we have to mask up all day (not that we would blame them for requiring it until this mess is over) and if we have to stick with cruise line hosted excursions, not to mention possible quarantines before and/or after.  Also, there's the question of whether Canada will even allow cruise ships.  However, if all that is either lifted or is acceptable to passengers, wondering if a cruisetour combo will be considered "legal" under the CDC guidelines if it's X number of days of touring with a subset of the cruise passengers with which you'll be onboard before or after a 7-day cruise. The cruise itself is only 7 days and falls within the current guidelines if taken by itself, but the entire "experience" with other travelers goes beyond that one week limit. 

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On 11/22/2020 at 10:02 AM, Ken the cruiser said:

. So in CDC's eyes, is it even considered a B2B?

 

Will the CDC consider this a B2B? I do not know. I don't think the CDC has said no B2B's, they have said no cruises over 7 days. But if Celebrity is categorizing it as a B2B to give you the discount, then maybe. Either way, I think the assumption that by May you will A. have the vaccine and B. that enough people will have the vaccine for it to affect the CDC's requirements are optimistic. Maybe yes to the first but most likely no to the second. If it were me I would hope that you could take this trip but most likely won't. 

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2 minutes ago, SunsetPoint said:

I'm pretty sure the 13-day Alaskan cruisetour we booked quite a while ago for August 2021 will be off the table, at least for us, since we don't plan to cruise if we have to mask up all day (not that we would blame them for requiring it until this mess is over) and if we have to stick with cruise line hosted excursions, not to mention possible quarantines before and/or after.  Also, there's the question of whether Canada will even allow cruise ships.  However, if all that is either lifted or is acceptable to passengers, wondering if a cruisetour combo will be considered "legal" under the CDC guidelines if it's X number of days of touring with a subset of the cruise passengers with which you'll be onboard before or after a 7-day cruise. The cruise itself is only 7 days and falls within the current guidelines if taken by itself, but the entire "experience" with other travelers goes beyond that one week limit. 

 

There are many scenarios we could use clarity on.  Random questions that come to mind:

Can non-US citizen take B2B and/or cruise tours for an US sailing?

Can US citizen take B2B and/or cruise tours for an non-US sailing?

If a US citizen takes a non-US sailing, do they need to immediately fly home after their sailing?

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1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I have never done a B2B cruise and so I haven't paid too much attention to this but did find the source.  There are already other threads talking about B2B directly and/or the restrictions of level 4.  Sounds to me that it's pretty clear B2B will not happen until the CDC at least goes level 3.  I do question the enforcement of two cruises between different lines. 

 

Directly from the CDC (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship) website:

 

image.thumb.png.24b0db56830d06855b4ebe9cac68173b.png

This is a travel advisory, the items listed are recommendedbut not mandatory.  This travel advisory recommends to test and quarantine after a cruise (with no time limit imposed on the cruise.

 

The "no cruise more than 7 days" is part of the Conditional Sail Order, and does have enforcement, as it is an emergency rule issued by the CDC, which is different than the travel advisory.

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34 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Ok. It says stay home for 7 days after travel. We can do that after our B2B ends. 

As for B2B cruises, the CDC's intent is to limit the exposure time of any one passenger to 7 days, and CDC is well aware of B2B cruises through the VSP and GI reporting procedures, so I would doubt that they will allow a B2B.

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1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

There are many scenarios we could use clarity on.  Random questions that come to mind:

Can non-US citizen take B2B and/or cruise tours for an US sailing?

Can US citizen take B2B and/or cruise tours for an non-US sailing?

If a US citizen takes a non-US sailing, do they need to immediately fly home after their sailing?

It does not matter what nationality the passenger is, if they are booked on a cruise that enters US waters that is over 7 days (whether one cruise or multiple) they fall under the CDC, and therefore anything over 7 days is not allowed.

 

If the cruise does not call at any US port, or enter US waters, then the CDC has no jurisdiction, and the only thing that applies is the level 4 travel advisory, which is only a recommendation, so yes a US citizen could take a cruise longer than 7 days, if it does not enter US waters.

 

Again, if it is a cruise that does not enter US waters (non-US sailing), there is no jurisdiction, and the US citizen can stay in whatever country they want to, subject to that country's regulations.

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6 minutes ago, D C said:

The key word in that sentence is SHOULD.   It's merely a suggestion.  

According to the Federal Plain Language Act, federal departments are required to use the word "must" if it supposed to be mandatory.  "Shall" which was used widely in federal legislation in the past, denotes too much uncertainty, and is a frequently litigated term.

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19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As for B2B cruises, the CDC's intent is to limit the exposure time of any one passenger to 7 days, and CDC is well aware of B2B cruises through the VSP and GI reporting procedures, so I would doubt that they will allow a B2B.

The only mention of 7 days in the order is: The cruise ship operator must not sail or offer to sail on an itinerary longer than 7 days.

 

There is nothing suggesting the reasoning behind 7 days versus 5, 6, 8, or 9.  I think it's a bit of a leap to say that there is a limitation on what the passengers do after disembarking and whether they can embark on another itinerary with the same or different cruise operator.  

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5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

According to the Federal Plain Language Act, federal departments are required to use the word "must" if it supposed to be mandatory.  "Shall" which was used widely in federal legislation in the past, denotes too much uncertainty, and is a frequently litigated term.

Leave it to the lawyers to muddy something as simple as "shall".  

 

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12 minutes ago, D C said:

The only mention of 7 days in the order is: The cruise ship operator must not sail or offer to sail on an itinerary longer than 7 days.

 

There is nothing suggesting the reasoning behind 7 days versus 5, 6, 8, or 9.  I think it's a bit of a leap to say that there is a limitation on what the passengers do after disembarking and whether they can embark on another itinerary with the same or different cruise operator.  

While the "side to side" (two different ships) is a distinct possibility to get around the 7 day limitation, just as CBP considers two consecutive cruises to be one, for purposes of the PVSA, it is not that great a leap to expect that continuing to sail on the same ship for more than one cruise would not be considered a violation of the 7 day rule.

 

Why do you think the CDC set a 7 day limit, and not as you say 5,6,8 or 9?  I believe that it is due to studies of other viral outbreaks on cruise ships (notably noro) and a study of back to back cruisers, as well as a detailed study of the timelines of the few cruises that have had covid outbreaks, to determine the longest possible cruise that still provides a significant safety factor against contracting a disease.  Therefore, the 7 day limit is for the passenger, not the voyage.  I think that even a same cruise line side to side will not be allowed, only if you can arrange one that involves two separate cruise lines.

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