Fain Now Says Vaccines, Not New Protocols Will Allow Cruising To Restart

[twangster]

Just now, bajathree said:

Thats not an apples to apples. 

If you are saying that the vaccine is the light at the end of the tunnel for cruising....then you darn well know that the majority, if not ALL, of these sailings they currently are marketing for March-June aren't going to sail. 

 

I suspect that to be true but I don't know that to be true.

 

Royal always plays it slow.  Look at hurricane season.  Everyone wants them to cancel as soon as the weather channel mentions a tropical storm 3 weeks away.  Royal plays it slow in case a cruise can sail.  In many cases they can.  

 

No business owner should close their doors beyond what is known to be possible.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

No business owner should close their doors beyond what is known to be possible.

 

Agree.....but a business should also not sell something that they know they can't deliver.

 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Agree.....but a business should also not sell something that they know they can't deliver.

 

 

Cruise lines don't know because the CDC is being elusive and vague.  It would have been better for us if the CDC was allowed to extend the NSO.  Then we all would know.  Instead politicians interfered and the CSO was born in a shroud of mist.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

45 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Cruise lines don't know because the CDC is being elusive and vague.  It would have been better for us if the CDC was allowed to extend the NSO.  Then we all would know.  Instead politicians interfered and the CSO was born in a shroud of mist.

 

I think there are many cruises that they know won't be sailing. Example Mar/April TAs. With final payments needing to be made it would be great if RCI would make a decision now.....and not after final payment. 

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

I think there are many cruises that they know won't be sailing. Example Mar/April TAs. With final payments needing to be made it would be great if RCI would make a decision now.....and not after final payment. 

 

I'd like them to reduce final payment due date to 30 days out.  

[suzyluvs2cruise]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I'd like them to reduce final payment due date to 30 days out.  

 

That would be a great move on their part. 

[Ourusualbeach]

27 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

That would be a great move on their part. 

It’s been 9 months of sticking with their std 90 days.  With the end in sight they are not about to change it now. 

[bajathree]

2 hours ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Agree.....but a business should also not sell something that they know they can't deliver.

 

Exactly .....come on...you know darn well there isn't going to be any of the big ships (or probably any ships) sailing the Caribbean March/April...yet they are selling them. IMHO thats a very grey way of doing business.

Edited December 17, 2020 by bajathree

[bajathree]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

 

Cruise lines don't know because the CDC is being elusive and vague.  It would have been better for us if the CDC was allowed to extend the NSO.  Then we all would know.  Instead politicians interfered and the CSO was born in a shroud of mist.

Agree that politics got in the way of the CDC no sail order being extended well into 2021...however I think that the CDC has also been pretty clear as of late what their real opinion of cruising is:

CDC has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice with a clear recommendation to avoid all cruise travel due to ongoing spread of COVID-19 and the increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases on cruise ships.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, bajathree said:

Agree that politics got in the way of the CDC no sail order being extended well into 2021...however I think that the CDC has also been pretty clear as of late what their real opinion of cruising is:

CDC has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice with a clear recommendation to avoid all cruise travel due to ongoing spread of COVID-19 and the increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases on cruise ships.

 

Agreed, however the CDC isn't clear when they intend to allow ships to return to service. 

 

Is it when there are less than X deaths per day, or less than Y% positivity rate, or fewer than Z new cases? 

 

They are eager to cite statistics and facts about what cruise ships did wrong in the past yet they have no metrics for the threshold that will allow ships to sail.  Still cruisers expect cruise lines know exactly that which the CDC refuses to offer and what exactly the CDC is thinking when the CDC doesn't even respond to simply inquiries such as "Are B2B allowed or not?".  CDC response... crickets.

 

I'm sure they would love to have greater domestic powers as well.  They would shut down everything.  

[Iamcruzin]

1 hour ago, bajathree said:

Exactly .....come on...you know darn well there isn't going to be any of the big ships (or probably any ships) sailing the Caribbean March/April...yet they are selling them. IMHO thats a very grey way of doing business.

I agree but I bet there are people gaming the system by booking cruises knowing full well that they won't sail just to get the 125% FCC. I'm sure that's been happening since day one.   I think at this point even those on CC who were naive about cruising starting up summer of  2020 would admit that these cruises in early spring aren't happening.

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

Agreed, however the CDC isn't clear when they intend to allow ships to return to service. 

 

Is it when there are less than X deaths per day, or less than Y% positivity rate, or fewer than Z new cases? 

 

They are eager to cite statistics and facts about what cruise ships did wrong in the past yet they have no metrics for the threshold that will allow ships to sail.  Still cruisers expect cruise lines know exactly that which the CDC refuses to offer and what exactly the CDC is thinking when the CDC doesn't even respond to simply inquiries such as "Are B2B allowed or not?".  CDC response... crickets.

 

I'm sure they would love to have greater domestic powers as well.  They would shut down everything.  

Unless I’m missing something, the CDC only has jurisdiction over the U.S. only, why isn’t the rest of the world cruising??

How do you know what the discussions are between the CDC and the cruise lines?

With what’s happening in the world today, as far as the virus is concerned, it would be business suicide to try sailing now, guaranteed failure. 

I’m amazed that the cruise line has no culpability with this whole mess. You complain about getting any information from the CDC but not anything about the crickets in Miami?

This is a free world, if the cruise lines don’t think they are being treated fairly here, they are free to pack up their ships and go someplace that will, maybe Liberia, where they are flagged.

[twangster]

5 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Unless I’m missing something, the CDC only has jurisdiction over the U.S. only, why isn’t the rest of the world cruising??

How do you know what the discussions are between the CDC and the cruise lines?

With what’s happening in the world today, as far as the virus is concerned, it would be business suicide to try sailing now, guaranteed failure. 

I’m amazed that the cruise line has no culpability with this whole mess. You complain about getting any information from the CDC but not anything about the crickets in Miami?

This is a free world, if the cruise lines don’t think they are being treated fairly here, they are free to pack up their ships and go someplace that will, maybe Liberia, where they are flagged.

 

Princess in a sales channel video made it very clear they asked numerous times about B2B and there has been no response from the CDC.  I don't know but I'm assuming Royal and NCL have also independently inquired.

 

Crickets?  Fain is routinely putting out videos.   Fain's problem is that he doesn't have the magic answers that unreasonable people expect from him.  No one does.  Ask a car rental company CEO when things will be back to normal.  Ask a hotel CEO when business will be back to normal.  Ask an airline CEO when things will be back to normal.  None of them know.  

 

I haven't been pleased with Bayley's RCI at times and I've not been afraid to call them out right here on CC.  However this expectation that somehow he should have all the answers and should know with certainty well into the future is absurd.  

 

As far as the rest of the world, other region's health agencies are formulating their own plans but few of them are allowing cruising right now.  Yet are Fain and Bayley supposed to have crystal clear vision into every other country in the world too? 

 

No one on earth knows how this pandemic will continue to play out over the next 12 months.  All we have are dire predictions for the next 2 months.  

 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

I agree but I bet there are people gaming the system by booking cruises knowing full well that they won't sail just to get the 125% FCC. I'm sure that's been happening since day one.   I think at this point even those on CC who were naive about cruising starting up summer of  2020 would admit that these cruises in early spring aren't happening.

 

And with higher cruise fares those 125% FCCs won't go as far as many thought they would. 

[Iamcruzin]

25 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

And with higher cruise fares those 125% FCCs won't go as far as many thought they would. 

That's true but for those who are willing to cruise under any condition it's still better than paying the higher price with without the extra 25%.

[twangster]

6 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

This is a free world, if the cruise lines don’t think they are being treated fairly here, they are free to pack up their ships and go someplace that will, maybe Liberia, where they are flagged.

 

BTW... I don't hear cruise lines complaining.  All I hear complaining are a small contingency of cruisers complaining, mostly American but some from other countries.  Complaining isn't a crime. in a free and open world people can complain about many things.  

[ipeeinthepool]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

 

BTW... I don't hear cruise lines complaining.  All I hear complaining are a small contingency of cruisers complaining, mostly American but some from other countries. 

 

So... Are you complaining about people complaining?

[twangster]

3 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

So... Are you complaining about people complaining?

 

Not at all.  I'm simply posting an observation.  

 

When you review communication published by cruise lines very little of it is complaining about the CDC.  There is some, but it is few and far between.

 

When you review posts from cruisers about the CDC there is significant complaining about the CDC.  

 

That isn't complaining about user posts, simply observing the trend.  

[ace2542]

16 hours ago, bajathree said:

Agree that politics got in the way of the CDC no sail order being extended well into 2021...however I think that the CDC has also been pretty clear as of late what their real opinion of cruising is:

CDC has issued a Level 4 Travel Health Notice with a clear recommendation to avoid all cruise travel due to ongoing spread of COVID-19 and the increased risk of person-to-person spread of infectious diseases on cruise ships.

Can the CDC maintain that level 4 health alert forever? And would that stop cruising forever at least into and out of the USA if they did that?

[bajathree]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Can the CDC maintain that level 4 health alert forever? And would that stop cruising forever at least into and out of the USA if they did that?

Of course they aren't going to keep cruising at a level 4 forever. But for now it's the CDC's way of saying politics aside we don't recommend anyone to sail. I guess it got it's message across since all cruise lines cancelled sailings through Feb/March

[twangster]

16 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Can the CDC maintain that level 4 health alert forever? And would that stop cruising forever at least into and out of the USA if they did that?

 

In March a CDC employee on their cruise ship task force stated that cruise ships should not be allowed to sail until the pandemic is over.  "Full stop" is what they stated until the virus has been defeated.  

 

That's not forever but they will do everything in their power to stop ships from sailing until it's absolutely clear the virus has been defeated.  They may not be able to defend that position as far out as they would like to but that is their goal.  

 

Only time will tell how long they can keep their cruise ban going.  

[molly361]

I heard on the news that the FDA just approved a $30 or so at home test kit that gives rapid results.  At least that is an affordable option if Royal will accept the results if self testing is going to be required