Mediation between CDC and Florida Collapses

[harkinmr]

3 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

 

Facts, darn it.  Spoils everything.  😉

 

As many have also done, realize that sometimes it's just not worth even engaging.  WOT and not really about cruising.  🚢

Heh.  The facts are exactly as I said. You’re right about one thing. Sometimes it is just not worth it to engage with those who don’t look at them.   
 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

[harkinmr]

5 minutes ago, CroozFanatic said:

Uh, 28th is pretty amazing. That's like a C-. We have 27% uninsured drivers... pretty sure that's 50th. We'll take 28th all day!!

You might think it’s “pretty amazing” but 40% fully vaccinated gets us nowhere near herd immunity for FL.  28 out of 50 is “like an F”. 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why do you believe they'll wear a mask in public?

Most who oppose the vaccines also oppose masks.

If you’re cruising in the foreseeable future, and you’re doing so without the COVID Vaccine, you’ll be required to wear a mask when you’re outside your cabin in closed areas of the ship.

 

Said in another post, if anyone is going to cause a stink on a cruise ship about not complying with the cruise lines requirements, it won’t be dealt with as someone who is looking for a stage to complain.  It will be dealt with via cruise security.

 

Don’t know if you’ve ever interfaced with them all that much, but they’re a surly, humorless group.  Let’s just say if you ignore their requirements, I’m doubting you’re spending much, if any, time in that nice balcony cabin you paid for.

Edited June 15, 2021 by graphicguy

[KennyFla]

38 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It’s not the number of vaccines distributed. It is the percentage of the population that is vaccinated that matters. Florida: number 28 out of 50. 
 

That's just playing games with numbers.  

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, KennyFla said:

That's just playing games with numbers.  

Oh come on!  It’s not playing games with numbers. It is the percentage of the population being fully vaccinated that drives herd immunity. Both on a state level and nationwide. Florida’s total population is 22 million people. Under 9 million are fully vaccinated. That matters.  And it’s not good no matter how you spin it.  

[At Sea At Peace]

44 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Heh.  The facts are exactly as I said. You’re right about one thing. Sometimes it is just not worth it to engage with those who don’t look at them.   
 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

 

One dimensional data series.

 

Did you know that, out of the 27 states with a higher vaccination % than Florida, 23 of the states have a higher college student % of the states population?

 

Considering the college mandates, and in some states, such as Florida, the "preclusion of such mandates," the vaccination of college students, considering the timeline of post-vaccination period, will have a current effect on the state wide %.

 

Simple common sense applying multiple data dimensions to provide understanding to a reasonable person with no anti-Florida bias. 

 

 

1. Vermont Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 382,096
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 61.23

 

2. Maine
Number of people fully vaccinated: 780,132
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 58.04

 

3. Massachusetts Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,980,438
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 57.75

 

4. Connecticut 3 Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,027,759
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 56.88

 

5. Rhode Island Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 584,049
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 55.13

 

6. New Hampshire Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 722,573
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 53.14

 

7. New Jersey
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,664,529
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 52.52

 

8. Maryland
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,120,198
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 51.61

 

9. Washington Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,831,107
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.31

 

10. New Mexico Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,050,734
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.11

 

11. New York Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 9,722,653
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.98

 

12. Oregon Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,077,018
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.24

 

13. Hawaii
Number of people fully vaccinated: 695,368
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.11

 

14. Minnesota Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,739,422
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.57

 

15. District of Columbia Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 341,939
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.45

 

16. Colorado Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,777,997
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.24

 

17. Virginia Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,115,334
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.21

 

18. Pennsylvania Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,980,871
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.72

 

19. Wisconsin Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,701,535
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.4

 

20. California Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 18,323,566
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.37

 

21. Delaware Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 447,739
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.98

 

22. Iowa Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,441,717
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.7

 

23. Michigan Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,434,974
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.41

 

24. Nebraska Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 855,476
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.22

 

25. South Dakota Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 388,026
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.86

 

26. Illinois Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,352,072
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.24

 

27. Ohio Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,922,904
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.12

 

28. Florida
Number of people fully vaccinated: 8,950,349
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 41.67

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

One dimensional data series.

 

Did you know that, out of the 27 states with a higher vaccination % than Florida, 23 of the states have a higher college student % of the states population?

 

Considering the college mandates, and in some states, such as Florida, the "preclusion of such mandates," the vaccination of college students, considering the timeline of post-vaccination period, will have a current effect on the state wide %.

 

Simple common sense applying multiple data dimensions to provide understanding to a reasonable person with no anti-Florida bias. 

 

 

1. Vermont Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 382,096
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 61.23

 

2. Maine
Number of people fully vaccinated: 780,132
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 58.04

 

3. Massachusetts Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,980,438
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 57.75

 

4. Connecticut 3 Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,027,759
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 56.88

 

5. Rhode Island Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 584,049
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 55.13

 

6. New Hampshire Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 722,573
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 53.14

 

7. New Jersey
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,664,529
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 52.52

 

8. Maryland
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,120,198
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 51.61

 

9. Washington Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,831,107
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.31

 

10. New Mexico Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,050,734
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.11

 

11. New York Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 9,722,653
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.98

 

12. Oregon Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,077,018
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.24

 

13. Hawaii
Number of people fully vaccinated: 695,368
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.11

 

14. Minnesota Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,739,422
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.57

 

15. District of Columbia Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 341,939
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.45

 

16. Colorado Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,777,997
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.24

 

17. Virginia Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,115,334
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.21

 

18. Pennsylvania Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,980,871
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.72

 

19. Wisconsin Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,701,535
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.4

 

20. California Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 18,323,566
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.37

 

21. Delaware Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 447,739
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.98

 

22. Iowa Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,441,717
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.7

 

23. Michigan Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,434,974
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.41

 

24. Nebraska Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 855,476
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 44.22

 

25. South Dakota Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 388,026
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.86

 

26. Illinois Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,352,072
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.24

 

27. Ohio Higher College % Population
Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,922,904
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.12

 

28. Florida
Number of people fully vaccinated: 8,950,349
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 41.67

😂. Yea, keep trying. The gymnastics must be exhausting.  

Edited June 15, 2021 by harkinmr

[KennyFla]

27 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Oh come on!  It’s not playing games with numbers. It is the percentage of the population being fully vaccinated that drives herd immunity. Both on a state level and nationwide. Florida’s total population is 22 million people. Under 9 million are fully vaccinated. That matters.  And it’s not good no matter how you spin it.  

Looks like we are doing pretty well to me:

 

[DCGuy64]

Please dear God, can we just get back to sailing and stop the freaking bickering over Covid? I am so done with this subject already. Nobody's mind is changed. Everyone can find scientific data to support his/her position. A state that appears to be "doing well" can have a sudden surge and a "bad" state can experience a recovery. What is the POINT of these arguments anymore? SMH....

Have a good day, everyone, I'm going to try to find some actual cruise news to read.

[KennyFla]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Please dear God, can we just get back to sailing and stop the freaking bickering over Covid? I am so done with this subject already. Nobody's mind is changed. Everyone can find scientific data to support his/her position. A state that appears to be "doing well" can have a sudden surge and a "bad" state can experience a recovery. What is the POINT of these arguments anymore? SMH....

Have a good day, everyone, I'm going to try to find some actual cruise news to read.

You're right.  It will be nice to argue over which ship has the best buffet.  It will be nice on everybody's first cruise to get together at the meet and mingle and share a drink.

[Sheshefran]

40 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

You're right.  It will be nice to argue over which ship has the best buffet.  It will be nice on everybody's first cruise to get together at the meet and mingle and share a drink.

Soon,  very soon. 

[graphicguy]

On 6/14/2021 at 8:50 AM, DCGuy64 said:

This is it. Many people want to force others to make their choices.

Not forcing anyone to make a choice I'd make.  Now, if you'd said that those different choices have different results, then I'd agree.

 

You may not like the results of the choices you make. But, you do have choices. 😉 

Edited June 15, 2021 by graphicguy

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

If you’re cruising in the foreseeable future, and you’re doing so without the COVID Vaccine, you’ll be required to wear a mask when you’re outside your cabin in closed areas of the ship.

Unless proof of vaccination is required, there is no way to identify who has been vaccinated and who would be required to wear a mask outside their cabin.

Those who oppose the vaccines generally believe COVID is over-hyped and is not a valid reason to take the vaccine or wear a mask. They will simply ignore rules that required those who have not been vaccinated to wear a mask.  IOW, they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear a mask.

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Now, if you'd said that those different choices have different results, then I'd agree.

Then we agree. 😉

[graphicguy]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Unless proof of vaccination is required, there is no way to identify who has been vaccinated and who would be required to wear a mask outside their cabin.

Those who oppose the vaccines generally believe COVID is over-hyped and is not a valid reason to take the vaccine or wear a mask. They will simply ignore rules that required those who have not been vaccinated to wear a mask.  IOW, they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear a mask.

Proof of 100% vaccination IS REQUIRED by Norwegian, so no mandatory masks.  I doesn't matter to me if anyone think it's OVER-HYPED (but 600,000 dead in the U.S. and nearly 4M deaths world wide from COVID doesn't feel like COVID was over-hyped).  If anything, there should have been more hype, not less.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Proof of 100% vaccination IS REQUIRED by Norwegian, so no mandatory masks.  I doesn't matter to me if anyone think it's OVER-HYPED (but 600,000 dead in the U.S. and nearly 4M deaths world wide from COVID doesn't feel like COVID was over-hyped).  If anything, there should have been more hype, not less.

I agree with you but those who oppose vaccinations would not.  They claim that the death toll and case counts are orders of magnitude smaller, that the vaccines are nothing more than a poison that cause more deaths than the virus, etc., etc. 

They are the ones pushing things like the Florida law prohibiting vaccination requirements.   Since they do not believe COVID is a real threat, they do not accept any of the mitigation protocols including masking.  Suppose a cruise line had a requirement that unvaccinated people had to wear a mask outside their cabin but did not have a requirement that one had to prove vaccination prior to boarding, those who oppose vaccinations would simply ignore the mask requirement.  

[harkinmr]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Unless proof of vaccination is required, there is no way to identify who has been vaccinated and who would be required to wear a mask outside their cabin.

Those who oppose the vaccines generally believe COVID is over-hyped and is not a valid reason to take the vaccine or wear a mask. They will simply ignore rules that required those who have not been vaccinated to wear a mask.  IOW, they won't get vaccinated and they won't wear a mask.

For NCL, proof of vaccination is required through October 31, so there won’t be unvaccinated passengers on board and no mask requirement. Problem solved.
 

On cruise lines like Celebrity and Carnival, it will be 95% passenger vaccinated sailings. The other 5% will be age-ineligible children. Much easier to apply and manage “who” needs to be wearing a mask AND the CDC has given the lines discretion to have no masks if 95% of passengers are vaccinated. Again, problem solved.
 

Royal Caribbean would appear to not be requiring full vaccinations (out of Florida ports anyway) and for those cruises masks will likely be required (and enforced) for ALL passengers.  It is a mistake for anyone to believe that mask requirements on any cruise ship out of the US are not going to be enforced. Repeated protocol violations could end up with violators being deposited at the next available port. 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, harkinmr said:

For NCL, proof of vaccination is required through October 31, so there won’t be unvaccinated passengers on board and no mask requirement. Problem solved.
 

On cruise lines like Celebrity and Carnival, it will be 95% passenger vaccinated sailings. The other 5% will be age-ineligible children. Much easier to apply and manage “who” needs to be wearing a mask AND the CDC has given the lines discretion to have no masks if 95% of passengers are vaccinated. Again, problem solved.
 

Royal Caribbean would appear to not be requiring full vaccinations (out of Florida ports anyway) and for those cruises masks will likely be required (and enforced) for ALL passengers.  It is a mistake for anyone to believe that mask requirements on any cruise ship out of the US are not going to be enforced. Repeated protocol violations could end up with violators being deposited at the next available port. 

No, the problem hasn't been solved because of the Florida law preventing NCL from verifying vaccination status.  

[KennyFla]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I agree with you but those who oppose vaccinations would not.  They claim that the death toll and case counts are orders of magnitude smaller, that the vaccines are nothing more than a poison that cause more deaths than the virus, etc., etc. 

They are the ones pushing things like the Florida law prohibiting vaccination requirements.   Since they do not believe COVID is a real threat, they do not accept any of the mitigation protocols including masking.  Suppose a cruise line had a requirement that unvaccinated people had to wear a mask outside their cabin but did not have a requirement that one had to prove vaccination prior to boarding, those who oppose vaccinations would simply ignore the mask requirement.  

I sure wish you guys would let me know where you get you mind reading abilities from.  I would like to get some as well.  

[B Midged]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Please dear God, can we just get back to sailing and stop the freaking bickering over Covid? I am so done with this subject already. Nobody's mind is changed. Everyone can find scientific data to support his/her position. A state that appears to be "doing well" can have a sudden surge and a "bad" state can experience a recovery. What is the POINT of these arguments anymore? SMH....

Have a good day, everyone, I'm going to try to find some actual cruise news to read.

Is someone forcing you to read it?

[harkinmr]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

No, the problem hasn't been solved because of the Florida law preventing NCL from verifying vaccination status.  

It has been solved. The cruise lines have developed a process around the ban. And the ban does not “prevent” the cruise lines from requiring vaccines, it just threatens a fine if they do. Celebrity and Carnival are pre-registering passengers. If you agree to voluntarily provide evidence of your vaccine status at the port you go into the 95% bucket. If you don’t agree, to you go in the 5% bucket. If you show up at the port and refuse to provide proof, and the 5% bucket is full, you don’t board. No push back from the state so far and it legally gets the cruise lines around the ban. 

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, B Midged said:

Is someone forcing you to read it?

Right. Go on a thread about the Florida lawsuit mediation and then complain that no one is talking about the cruising experience specifically. Not to mention that NCL has yet to start cruising. Lol. Find another thread. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by harkinmr

[DCGuy64]

8 minutes ago, B Midged said:

Is someone forcing you to read it?

No, not at all. But there comes a point when the dead horse keeps getting beaten and the conversation becomes fruitless. Also, I note that many of the people on this thread have exhausted this topic on many other threads, too. It's not like there's any paucity of CC threads about the virus (and that's putting it MILDLY). I guess I'll just try and ignore them from now on.

[graphicguy]

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Bravo, @graphicguy! LOL