Big change to UK sailings

[hamrag]

2 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

I think they have also taken the option that inconveniences the least customers.   If they have 3,000 people booked, then they can either reduce to 1,000 passengers (i.e. inconvenience 2,000 passengers) by following the 19th May capacity limits, or they can reduce to 2,000 passengers (i.e. inconvenience  1,000 passengers) by only allowing fully vaccinated passengers.

 

I feel very sorry for those negatively impacted because they are too young to be eligible for the vaccine... 

 

Absolutely, and this point has been overlooked due to the natural emotion involved for some posters.

[wirral36]

14 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

Yes, they his our cruise with 5 days notice, here is the email:

 

 

 

Following the announcement on 14 June 2021 delaying the planned easing of COVID restrictions and the continuation of certain capacity restrictions applicable to MSC Virtuosa, we have worked tirelessly and engaged with the relevant authorities to protect as many holidays as possible.

 

We hereby inform you that the UK Government has today, 28^th June 2021, advised an important change to the cruise operators who can now sail at an increased capacity of 50% under the condition that operators ensure that adult guests onboard are fully vaccinated, with exemptions for children under the age of 18 and certain adults that may not be eligible or able to be vaccinated.

 

Guests are considered fully vaccinated 14 days after the second dose and proof of vaccination (e.g. NHS app, vaccination card, certificate etc.) will need to be presented upon embarkation. Failure to produce evidence will result in refusal of embarkation.

 

All exempt unvaccinated guests and children 2 years and older, will need to take a lateral flow (antigen) or PCR (molecular) swab test within 72 hours prior to the ship’s departure. Proof of a negative test result will be requested at the terminal, and we will accept evidence such as an email, SMS or a printed document. The test is not required for fully vaccinated (any proof of vaccination needed) or under 2 years old guests.

In light of this update, please read the below instructions

 

If you are already fully vaccinated or will be at the time of travel, please ensure you bring proof of vaccination upon embarkation. Failure to produce this will result in refusal of embarkation.

 

For those of you who are not yet fully vaccinated (see definition above) or are only partially vaccinated (i.e. one dose), we encourage you to take advantage of our flexible cruise programme in order to move your cruise, without incurring any price difference, to a sailing that departs after you are fully vaccinated. Please contact our booking team on 0203 426 3010 who will be happy to assist you.  Alternatively, those of you who do not wish to re-schedule your holiday you can request a refund which will be processed within 14 days from the day MSC receive the request. Please email operationsuk@msccruises.co.uk to initiate the refund process.

We appreciate your understanding and look forward to welcoming you onboard as soon as possible.  

 

Kind Regards,

 

Charlotte Jones

Head of Contact Centre UK and Ireland

 

You’re right, there’s literally nothing on gov website or MSCs to confirm the above. How weird that they wouldn’t announce it at the same time officially I mean. 

[Wedgeh]

I booked as soon as the phones opened on the 1st April and now I'm being cancelled with 2.5 weeks to go. It's certainly not the first cruise I've lost to the pandemic (and probably won't be the last) however it's the only one where the behaviour of the company would have me seriously considering whether to ever book with them again.

[Wedgeh]

13 hours ago, CaroleC said:

A lot of NHS staff who booked this sailing as it was the first departure with 30% discount now won’t be able to go. So this is the thanks they get for all their hard work since the start of the pandemic! 🤯🤬

 

13 hours ago, CaroleC said:

Yes but not their partners unless they’re NHS staff too

 

That's the situation we're in, my wife was in charge of the covid wards, but now because I'm not fully vaccinated that's that.

[kernow]

51 minutes ago, hamrag said:

If that is the case, I'd say it's less disadvantage to them as their ships are smaller and the 1000 passengers allowed represent a higher percentage of full capacity....Anthem of Seas excepted. Virtuosa is a mega ship capacity 6000+, so to have 3000 on board instead of 1000 is a no brainer in Corporate terms.

 

Incidentally, all I am trying to do is rationalise why MSC made such decision...it remains horrendous for those adversely affected,

Yes, just checked and Anthem has 4180 passenger capacity, Britannia has 3647 so MSC have much more to lose financially keeping to 1000 passengers. Personally I think they should have offered people a good incentive to move rather than just kick them off but they must have decided not to do this.

[LifeonMars]

2 hours ago, kernow said:

The thing is, are the other cruise lines any better? RCL appears to have been fairer on this issue and we've done many cruises with them but there have been times in the past where I've felt really hard done by them and said 'that's it' but have always ended up going back when something I like comes along.

 

 

Celebrity Cruises  Silhouette ex Southampton  are insisting on 2 jabs plus a PCR test 72hrs  before sailing, which is causing passengers problems trying to book PCR Test for 72hrs before sailing day. Celebrity will reimburse the cost up to £100 or you can select a list from their testers nationwide, but apparently there are not many of them.  Children under 18 get an  antigen test at the Port. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by LifeonMars

[kernow]

2 minutes ago, LifeonMars said:

Celebrity Cruises  Silhouette ex Southampton  are insisting on 2 jabs plus a PCR test 72hrs  before sailing, which is causing passengers problems trying to book PCR Test for 72hrs before sailing day. Celebrity will reimburse the cost up to £100 or you can select a list from their testers nationwide, but apparently there are not many of them.  Children under 18 get an  antigen test at the Port. 

The PCR test is the same for Anthem, not sure what P and O are doing.

[Wedgeh]

2 hours ago, kernow said:

The thing is, are the other cruise lines any better?

 

 

They've all been upfront about the vaccination requirement (hence why we booked MSC) which is quite different from having the rug pulled out from under you pretty last minute.

[kernow]

2 minutes ago, Wedgeh said:

They've all been upfront about the vaccination requirement (hence why we booked MSC) which is quite different from having the rug pulled out from under you pretty last minute.

I agree MSC have handled this worse than the other cruise lines but what I meant was that at times they all do something badly.

Sorry that you have lost your cruise, can you not switch to another later one or have you decided not to bother?

[hamrag]

18 minutes ago, kernow said:

....Personally I think they should have offered people a good incentive to move rather than just kick them off but they must have decided not to do this.

I thought you'd said earlier they were able to rebook at the same price? Anyone who does so for the last sailing in July and all of August will have a good incentive surely as the pricing is much higher then!

[kernow]

2 minutes ago, hamrag said:

I thought you'd said earlier they were able to rebook at the same price? Anyone who does so for the last sailing in July and all of August will have a good incentive surely as the pricing is much higher then!

But you said they're not!

I don't really follow what is happening on P and O but I know Anthem cruisers were offered the chance to change to a choice of longer cruises in the same cabin category for no extra cost.

[boxman52]

1 hour ago, Wedgeh said:

They've all been upfront about the vaccination requirement (hence why we booked MSC) which is quite different from having the rug pulled out from under you pretty last minute.

I think if you trace this back the issue here is that MSC decided to advertise non vaccinated cruises. Is this happening elsewhere?

 

Any risk assessment would have said that there was a high likelihood of the government maintaining the restrictions into mid July or even beyond. MSC I am sure at that point had the decision to sell only 1000 places or take the view that they would sell above with the fall back of the introducing the 2 jab rule.

 

I suspect the delay has been them trying to get out of the 2 jabs for the increased number. The only thing that happened yesterday was that the restrictions were confirmed to at least mid July. I still have doubts that a total change will come then.

 

They couldn't get the change and fell back and their plan that was always there to go with the increased numbers but 2 jabs. Therefore letting people down at the last minute that is a terrible thing to do

 

Or I could just be a crazy Q person seeing things when they aren't there 

[8420PR]

45 minutes ago, boxman52 said:

I think if you trace this back the issue here is that MSC decided to advertise non vaccinated cruises. Is this happening elsewhere?

 

Any risk assessment would have said that there was a high likelihood of the government maintaining the restrictions into mid July or even beyond. MSC I am sure at that point had the decision to sell only 1000 places or take the view that they would sell above with the fall back of the introducing the 2 jab rule.

My hypothesis:

I don't believe that up until yesterday there were different rules between vaccinated and non-vaccinated guests on cruise-ships - the published UK Government rules were 100% clear that until 19th July (postponed from June) it is either 1000 people or 50% of capacity (whichever is lower).   The vaccination requirements from other cruise lines were just internal policy.

 

What changed is yesterday the Government decided the 1,000 passenger capacity limitations could be exceeded if guests were fully vaccinated.  

[ziggyuk]

21 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

My hypothesis:

I don't believe that up until yesterday there were different rules between vaccinated and non-vaccinated guests on cruise-ships - the published UK Government rules were 100% clear that until 19th July (postponed from June) it is either 1000 people or 50% of capacity (whichever is lower).   The vaccination requirements from other cruise lines were just internal policy.

 

What changed is yesterday the Government decided the 1,000 passenger capacity limitations could be exceeded if guests were fully vaccinated.  

 

We all agree with that but the key word you used is "could" which indicates an option just as MSC used "can" in their letter.

I work in an industry where those words are very important can, could, should, must.

 

I believe they had a choice, I'm not saying the made they right or wrong choice but I truly do not believe the changes were mandatory.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by ziggyuk

[Stevio]

39 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

My hypothesis:

I don't believe that up until yesterday there were different rules between vaccinated and non-vaccinated guests on cruise-ships - the published UK Government rules were 100% clear that until 19th July (postponed from June) it is either 1000 people or 50% of capacity (whichever is lower).   The vaccination requirements from other cruise lines were just internal policy.

 

What changed is yesterday the Government decided the 1,000 passenger capacity limitations could be exceeded if guests were fully vaccinated.  

I would deem that to be the perfect hypothesis.

 

The only problem I have is it is all based on an MSC assertion to a small number of imminent cruisers that... "We hereby inform you that the UK Government has today, 28th June 2021, advised an important change to the cruise operators who can now sail at an increased capacity of 50% under the condition that operators ensure that adult guests onboard are fully vaccinated".

 

On the Gov' site... Nothing

On the MSC site... Still welcoming the unvaccinated.

 

Perhaps MSC has slipped someone down the crown copyright office a few quid to produce a personalised UK sail advice omitting the words "whichever is lower" from their copy? 😉

 

My point is why is this huge change to Government sailing advice not widely available, and so secretive?

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Stevio

[the wandering two]

I echo Boxman52 & 8420PR, there was never going to be a free for all after July 19. Reckon that the capacity increase has come about by lobbying from the other cruise lines running fully vaccinated sailings, MSC have had to fall in line or get left with running a mega loss with 1000 people for who knows how long. 

[MotownVoice]

I am so jealous of the U-K right now.

What are the rules for boarding in Marseille?  Is Europe's MSC policy the same as the U-K?  Or are they allowing people refusing to follow Covid protocol on board like we are in the U-S?

Edited June 29, 2021 by MotownVoice

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, kernow said:

But you said they're not!....

 

Actually, I didn't say they're not able to rebook at the same price....what I said was the price is separate from the NHS discount and the discount % will vary and may be less, the same or more!

Edited June 29, 2021 by hamrag

[wirral36]

11 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

I don't understand the hostility to MSC over a rule change. Yes, it is very unfortunate that there was short notice. Thankfully, they're offering a refund(?).

 

Obviously, they're doing the best they can in difficult pandemic conditions. The fact that they are willing to lose customer goodwill, suggests that they see a problem down the line. Something you may not be aware of?

 

As always, Remain Calm and Carry On! 🙄

 

 

 

interestingly, I just recieved this email from TA. 

 

Following the announcement on 14 June 2021 regarding the continuation of certain capacity restrictions applicable to MSC Virtuosa, MSC Cruises have now advised that they require all adult guests on board to be fully vaccinated on sailings until 17th July.

At this time their vaccine policy remains unchanged on all sailings after 17th July and your sailing is not impacted by this change.

MSC Cruises policy for sailings after 17th July states that they will welcome only UK residents of all ages, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

All unvaccinated or partially vaccinated guests (i.e did not receive the full set of vaccine shots) will need to take a lateral flow (antigen) or PCR (molecular) swab test within 72 hours prior to the ship’s departure.

Proof of a negative test result will be requested atthe terminal and they will accept evidence such as an email, SMS or a printed document.

[ziggyuk]

2 minutes ago, wirral36 said:

 

 

 

interestingly, I just recieved this email from TA. 

 

Following the announcement on 14 June 2021 regarding the continuation of certain capacity restrictions applicable to MSC Virtuosa, MSC Cruises have now advised that they require all adult guests on board to be fully vaccinated on sailings until 17th July.

At this time their vaccine policy remains unchanged on all sailings after 17th July and your sailing is not impacted by this change.

MSC Cruises policy for sailings after 17th July states that they will welcome only UK residents of all ages, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

All unvaccinated or partially vaccinated guests (i.e did not receive the full set of vaccine shots) will need to take a lateral flow (antigen) or PCR (molecular) swab test within 72 hours prior to the ship’s departure.

Proof of a negative test result will be requested atthe terminal and they will accept evidence such as an email, SMS or a printed document.

 

 

I think it could just be because the governments next freedom day is 19th July so they are probably not making changes until after that announcement.

Anyone on a cruise shortly after that with probably have the same uncertainty we had for our 3/7 cruise 😱

[hamrag]

3 minutes ago, wirral36 said:

.....At this time their vaccine policy remains unchanged on all sailings after 17th July and your sailing is not impacted by this change.

MSC Cruises policy for sailings after 17th July states that they will welcome only UK residents of all ages, both vaccinated and unvaccinated....

 

Assuming the bold lettering sentence was on the email (i.e. bolding is not by you), it is interesting to note the first 3 words.....at this time!! 😉

[wirral36]

1 minute ago, ziggyuk said:

 

 

I think it could just be because the governments next freedom day is 19th July so they are probably not making changes until after that announcement.

Anyone on a cruise shortly after that with probably have the same uncertainty we had for our 3/7 cruise 😱

It’s all so confusing and stressful for everyone. 

[ziggyuk]

5 minutes ago, wirral36 said:

It’s all so confusing and stressful for everyone. 

 

It really is, although MSC are not stating a policy I expect if the government go ahead with freedom day they will sail with 80% mixed and if the government postpone again they will go with 50% vax only.

 

Until then they stick with 1000 mixed (almost certainly overbooked) which is really unfair on passengers just like we had for 3/7

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by ziggyuk

[Stevio]

2 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

It really is, although MSC are not stating a policy I expect if the government go ahead with freedom day they will sail with 80% mixed and if the government postpone again they will go with 50% vax only.

 

Until then they stick with 1000 mixed (almost certainly overbooked) which is really unfair on passengers just like we had for 3/7

 

 

 

Although still sort of unofficial, I believe there will definitely be a ramp up to the vaccinated 50% for all cruises next month, (perhaps for the next few weeks only until freedom day) as Celebrity have now found spaces to advertise the 3rd & 9th July UK only sailings which have re appeared on their UK site.

 

Either way I don't think any cruise will be returning to the 1000.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Stevio

[ziggyuk]

21 minutes ago, Stevio said:

Although still sort of unofficial, I believe there will definitely be a ramp up to the vaccinated 50% for all cruises next month, (perhaps for the next few weeks only until freedom day) as Celebrity have now found spaces to advertise the 3rd & 9th July UK only sailings which have re appeared on their UK site.

 

Either way I don't think any cruise will be returning to the 1000.

 

I agree, key now is for anyone who has not had their second jab to try and bring it forward even if it means trying to find a  walk and queueing, don't just hope for freedom day on 19/07.