Cruising from Charleston SC, No longer after 2024

[SC2020]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

The Triumph (now Sunrise) and Conquest have docked in Mobile, so Sunshine docking in Mobile isn't an issue. The size of the terminal is the bigger constraint, which is why I think we'd be more likely to see Sunshine redeployed to Port Canaveral or Miami to serve the Bahamas and Eastern Caribbean, freeing up a larger ship for seasonal service to Alaska, and Spirit staying put year-round in Mobile.

 

The other solution would be to put a second ship in Jacksonville, but the height restriction limits the available inventory. It would probably mean moving Miracle out of Long Beach given the constraints elsewhere. As long as Elation and Sunshine weren't scheduled to depart on the same dates, this would allow no changes to be made to any planned port calls in the Bahamas and Eastern Caribbean if Carnival has started making port reservations for mid-2024 and beyond.

 

From Atlanta, Mobile and Charleston are almost exactly the same drive time. Jacksonville is only about 15-20 minutes further. Norfolk is significantly further from Atlanta - Port Canaveral is actually closer.

 

Mobile wins pretty much everything on the I-65 corridor south of Louisville (Baltimore), but of course can't do short cruises to the east. If you ignore Baltimore, the cut point between Mobile and New Orleans falls somewhere in Chicago.

 

From Charlotte, Norfolk is only about a half-hour closer than Jacksonville. It's actually a tad less for the Knoxville area (and at that point, Baltimore is a very close third).

 

Norfolk wins when your start looking at Raleigh, Durham, and the Greensboro area, and of course Eastern Virginia.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Jacksonville gets the nod, at least seasonally. How Carnival plans to approach Alaska and Europe in 2024 might impact the decision.

The Spirit spent some time in Jax during a recent shuffle. Are the Spirit class ships shorter than the Sunshine class? 

[tidecat]

19 minutes ago, SC2020 said:

The Spirit spent some time in Jax during a recent shuffle. Are the Spirit class ships shorter than the Sunshine class? 

Yes, Spirit is shorter. The height isn't the issue in Mobile, it's the size of the passenger terminal.

 

If Jax picks up a second ship to take over Charleston's service, it pretty much has to be a Spirit class ship.  Sunshine physically can dock in Mobile, but it doesn't make much sense for it to do so due to the small terminal, and since Mobile shares the ship with Seattle, the lack of a retractable roof over the midship pool that would not make it suitable for Alaska service.

 

The Sunshine class can clear the Golden Gate Bridge, so perhaps something like Sunrise from Miami to Long Beach/San Francisco, Sunshine from Charleston to Miami, and Miracle makes the move from Long Beach/San Francisco to Jacksonville. The downside there is Carnival, at least at the moment, doesn't need the additional capacity out of Long Beach during the winter months, as Sunrise has roughly 30% more lower berths than Miracle - although it may be an acceptable trade-off if Alaska and Hawaii cruises perform well.

[simplelife]

I would love to see Savannah become a cruise port.

[EBFURR]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:56 AM, mz-s said:

 

The city of Charleston does not own the port, it was not their contract to renew or not renew. The SC Port Authority owns the facility and decides what it is used for.

Well, the mayor and city of Charleston sure are taking credit for not renewing it. Check out the Charleston local news. I am fairly certain there was a lot of pressure from local government according to the news reports and our local sources. In any case it will be gone. 

[CarnivalShips480]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:10 AM, mz-s said:

 

Carnival has announced the Spirit will be homeported in Mobile after the Ecstasy leaves the fleet. They could certainly change their mind and switch to the Sunshine if they wanted, but the Sunshine will be in Charleston until I presume December 2024.

 

The Ecstasy is leaving the fleet in October 2022, not March 2024.

Sunshine in Charleston until April 2024

[mz-s]

24 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Sunshine in Charleston until April 2024

 

Their contract presumably runs through the end of 2024, so they will probably fill out the rest of the year before long.

[CarnivalShips480]

I think that that is going to create another ship for Alaska. If Miracle's San Francisco cruises (could be Magica but thats for another board) still go on then it would go to Alaska. Freedom is doing Port Canaveral instead of the Miami/Seattle split so they need another ship there. I think Sunshine could replace a ship with the pool cover to do the miami seattle

[bingo3]

On 5/25/2022 at 5:09 PM, audcc77 said:

LOL. It must be that southern hospitality I keep hearing about since taking early retirement here in SC three years ago.   🙄 

Not in Charleston obviously, but the rest of us are friendly!!

[tidecat]

If Mobile can make upgrades to its terminal, even seasonal service from a Sunshine class vessel would not be out of the question.

 

In terms of Lower Berth Days (LBD), Mobile would still only be filling about 545,000 to 550,000 over six months, which is down from the 749,000 the Fantasy had pre-shutdown. However, that would be moving 175,000 of those from the summer (April-September) to winter (October-March). However since Carnival has switched Mobile to primarily 6-8 day sailings, Mobile only would need to sell around 78,000 tickets every winter, instead of the 160,000 annually - notice that scales much better than when comparing LBD.

 

Assuming Mobile's ship for October 2024 and beyond fits through the Panama Canal, it could then share with Seattle or San Francisco. This then frees up a Spirit class vessel for Jacksonville, which becomes the permanent substitute for Charleston.

 

Carnival could even hedge the Charleston service between Jacksonville and Norfolk by having Mobile and Norfolk share one vessel. Spirit could then winter in Jacksonville and continue with Alaska service in the summer. Miracle would then stay on the West Coast.

 

Hopefully Mobile can make it happen.

[Tradestock]

It has been my impression that the depth and width of the channel was the issue in Mobile. I thought a ship running aground was the concern.  I have never heard that the size of the terminal was an issue, since the Civic center parking is used as overflow.

[CarnivalShips480]

18 hours ago, tidecat said:

If Mobile can make upgrades to its terminal, even seasonal service from a Sunshine class vessel would not be out of the question.

 

In terms of Lower Berth Days (LBD), Mobile would still only be filling about 545,000 to 550,000 over six months, which is down from the 749,000 the Fantasy had pre-shutdown. However, that would be moving 175,000 of those from the summer (April-September) to winter (October-March). However since Carnival has switched Mobile to primarily 6-8 day sailings, Mobile only would need to sell around 78,000 tickets every winter, instead of the 160,000 annually - notice that scales much better than when comparing LBD.

 

Assuming Mobile's ship for October 2024 and beyond fits through the Panama Canal, it could then share with Seattle or San Francisco. This then frees up a Spirit class vessel for Jacksonville, which becomes the permanent substitute for Charleston.

 

Carnival could even hedge the Charleston service between Jacksonville and Norfolk by having Mobile and Norfolk share one vessel. Spirit could then winter in Jacksonville and continue with Alaska service in the summer. Miracle would then stay on the West Coast.

 

Hopefully Mobile can make it happen.

They could also do a another ship in Baltimore, New York, or Norfolk

[tidecat]

10 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

They could also do a another ship in Baltimore, New York, or Norfolk

Baltimore is problematic because Royal Caribbean is there also, and has the same height issues Jacksonville and Tampa have. Unless if Carnival is willing to do weekday departures, there aren't any available berths on the weekend. There also is no legal four-day itinerary from Baltimore, as even Freeport and Bermuda are almost two full days' of sailing from Baltimore (around 800 nautical miles). Even a five-day itinerary would likely only feature one port, and then it couldn't depart on a Monday or Tuesday since there isn't an available berth on Saturday or Sunday.

 

New York could be upgraded from seasonal service, but apparently it didn't go well in the past when Carnival sailed from there in the winter. Since we're looking to replace predominantly four and five day sailings out of Charleston, this really doesn't work outside of Bermuda and Halifax, Nova Scotia. So winter sailings would all have to be longer duration from New York, or New York would remain seasonal.

 

Norfolk could work, even year-round, but it comes down to from where most Charleston cruisers originate. Jacksonville is closer for those in Georgia, all of South Carolina, and even a few counties in North Carolina. Norfolk is closer for those in Virginia and most of North Carolina. The downside with Norfolk is that while not as bad as Baltimore, it has similarly limited options for four-day and five-day itineraries. Nassau is a viable destination on a four-day sailing from Norfolk - something the Sunshine does now out of Charleston - it just requires running the ship at 18-19 knots for around 40 hours straight. From Jacksonville it's only about 400 nautical miles to Nassau, which allows the engines to run at lower speeds.

 

Obviously Carnival already is in Jacksonville, so instead of having sailings every other Saturday, Thursday, and Monday, there would be three sailings every week. 

 

I think a Jacksonville/Norfolk split would likely be the best solution for Carnival, but that requires Mobile to have a Sunshine-class or Conquest-class seasonally. Putting a second vessel in Jacksonville year-round would probably be the next best solution.

[shof515]

8 minutes ago, tidecat said:

New York could be upgraded from seasonal service, but apparently it didn't go well in the past when Carnival sailed from there in the winter. Since we're looking to replace predominantly four and five day sailings out of Charleston, this really doesn't work outside of Bermuda and Halifax, Nova Scotia. So winter sailings would all have to be longer duration from New York, or New York would remain seasonal.

 

what hurt carnival winter sailings out of New York is the itinerary. Carnival did the boring Florida-Bahamas run that stopped at Port Canaveral , Freeport and Nassau . Carnival needs to do their usually 8 day Caribbean sailings out out of New York more often. When Royal and NCL cruise out of NYC during the winter months this is the type of sailings they do. Winter months is the perfect time to do the longer 10-14 day cruises

 

In 2019 the Carnival Sunrise did a 10 day cruise out of NYC with this itinerary: San Juan, Tortola, St. Maarten, and St Thomas. Similar in 2016 the Carnival Vista did this 11 day cruise out of NYC: San Juan, St Thomas, Antigua and St Maarten.

 

 

I would love, love, LOVE if Carnival did this itinerary again out of NYC. Carnival seasonal itinerary of San Juan, St Thomas, Grand Turk and Amber Cove, Half Moon Cay, Grand Turk is getting kind of stale now

[Guest BasicSailor]

2 hours ago, shof515 said:

what hurt carnival winter sailings out of New York is the itinerary. Carnival did the boring Florida-Bahamas run that stopped at Port Canaveral , Freeport and Nassau . Carnival needs to do their usually 8 day Caribbean sailings out out of New York more often. When Royal and NCL cruise out of NYC during the winter months this is the type of sailings they do. Winter months is the perfect time to do the longer 10-14 day cruises

 

In 2019 the Carnival Sunrise did a 10 day cruise out of NYC with this itinerary: San Juan, Tortola, St. Maarten, and St Thomas. Similar in 2016 the Carnival Vista did this 11 day cruise out of NYC: San Juan, St Thomas, Antigua and St Maarten.

 

 

I would love, love, LOVE if Carnival did this itinerary again out of NYC. Carnival seasonal itinerary of San Juan, St Thomas, Grand Turk and Amber Cove, Half Moon Cay, Grand Turk is getting kind of stale now

I do agree those boring short Bahama runs is what's killing Carnival up North.  Other than Port Canaveral that's the only cruise available . Longer cruises in the fall months are starting to show .

 

Reading here and there I find the longer the cruise, the more Covid spreads around the ship. For now We only are doing quick short cruises. Mask worn where needed. At least for now the short cruises can keep you from being quarantined in your cabin for to long a period. That cant be fun for anyone.  CDC has also placed several islands with a new warning level requesting people not to visit .

[proudpatriot07]

On 5/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, ScottsSweetie said:

Perhaps. But the "old money" establishment in Charleston was never happy with the cruising industry being there. Many establishments downtown had fliers on their windows stating such. And since I'm such an empathetic person I made them happy by not entering their establishment. My "new money" talks, too.

 

I live in Charleston and this is so true. Most ordinary folks who live in the Charleston area are fine with the cruise ships. Most of us have sailed on the Sunshine or the Ecstasy when it was here. A lot of folks work for the port seasonally/part-time, including teachers who work as port agents during the summer. We loved all three of our cruises from Charleston- so convenient to cruise and then be home in less than an hour. 

 

Unfortunately that port area will probably be turned into a hotel or condos. That's just how Charleston goes lately. It will just increase housing prices here (CHS is already hard to afford!) and bring more revenue into the city. Most cruisers who left from CHS didn't spend a whole lot of money compared to folks who come here solely to vacation, which is what the city wants. But it's a big loss for locals who like cruising, but a big win for the SOBs (South of Broads... it's a neighborhood downtown) :(. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by proudpatriot07

[mz-s]

I always felt like the "old money" in Charleston didn't mind the cruise ships, they just didn't want them docked right downtown. So perhaps a terminal elsewhere would work if suitable shorefront can be found. Obviously though part of the appeal of Charleston is docking in downtown steps from Market St.

 

SC Port Authority operates a large facility across the Cooper River from Charleston in Mt. Pleasant, but it is past the Ravenel bridge. I wonder if they were to build a cruise port there, could the Sunshine or other ship fit under the Ravenel bridge?

Edited June 5, 2022 by mz-s

[Guest BasicSailor]

Now I'm reading topics as to where SC state is the one closing the port. Whew, lots of people want credit for this one.

[mz-s]

2 minutes ago, BasicSailor said:

Now I'm reading topics as to where SC state is the one closing the port. Whew, lots of people want credit for this one.

 

State of SC owns the port so they're really the only people who can close it. The city and it's old money residents have no jurisdiction over the port much to their chagrin. Their only play was to say it was somehow an environmental issue. Eventually, they won.

[Guest BasicSailor]

3 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

State of SC owns the port so they're really the only people who can close it. The city and it's old money residents have no jurisdiction over the port much to their chagrin. Their only play was to say it was somehow an environmental issue. Eventually, they won.

I remember that well. As you commented earlier moving it away from Market street would have been an option. Just don't see that happening as todays economy wouldn't allow fundings for such a project.

It would only become another chest thumping contest for someone to argue over.   So who gets the Sunshine? 😉

[tidecat]

One thing to note is that Sunshine's last drydock was October 21-November 8, 2021. I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves for drydock in October 2024 and heads to her new home upon completion.

 

We could find out as soon as this fall given that Carnival historically opens itineraries for bookings 2 to 2.5 years in advance.

[CarnivalShips480]

2 hours ago, mz-s said:

I always felt like the "old money" in Charleston didn't mind the cruise ships, they just didn't want them docked right downtown. So perhaps a terminal elsewhere would work if suitable shorefront can be found. Obviously though part of the appeal of Charleston is docking in downtown steps from Market St.

 

SC Port Authority operates a large facility across the Cooper River from Charleston in Mt. Pleasant, but it is past the Ravenel bridge. I wonder if they were to build a cruise port there, could the Sunshine or other ship fit under the Ravenel bridge?

Sunshine can't, but Spirit and Fantasy class can

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Sunshine can't, but Spirit and Fantasy class can

 

I doubt Carnival wants to operate yet another height-limited home port.

 

The only option I can see if Carnival wants to stay in Charleston is to build a terminal a bit further up Bay Street at Columbus Terminal. I doubt they could get that done in time for the end of the contract though.

[mz-s]

2 hours ago, tidecat said:

One thing to note is that Sunshine's last drydock was October 21-November 8, 2021. I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves for drydock in October 2024 and heads to her new home upon completion.

 

We could find out as soon as this fall given that Carnival historically opens itineraries for bookings 2 to 2.5 years in advance.

 

I actually expect Sunshine's 2021 drydock to have been her last sailing as a Carnival vessel. She is the oldest ship in the Carnival fleet and Carnival hasn't really done anything to her since her 2012 refit aside from routine maintenance.

[tidecat]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:09 PM, Tradestock said:

It has been my impression that the depth and width of the channel was the issue in Mobile. I thought a ship running aground was the concern.  I have never heard that the size of the terminal was an issue, since the Civic center parking is used as overflow.

The Conquest and Triumph have docked in Mobile before - any channel widening is primarily to support larger cargo ships that use the newest iteration of the Panama Canal. The existing channel is at a depth of 45 feet, and is being dredged to 50 feet plus allowances for waves (which will be more like 54-56 feet in total). The channel widening also allows for two-way traffic. Triumph (Sunrise) has the deepest draft of the ships to have docked in Mobile at 27.3 feet - Ecstasy is at 25.7 (Spirit is at 25.5).

 

A wider turning basin is supposed to be part of the dredging project as well. That will be of greatest interest to the cruise industry.

[vacruizer]

9 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

I actually expect Sunshine's 2021 drydock to have been her last sailing as a Carnival vessel. She is the oldest ship in the Carnival fleet and Carnival hasn't really done anything to her since her 2012 refit aside from routine maintenance.

You may be right. I was on the Sunshine a few weeks ago and surprised at her poor condition knowing she’d been in dry dock 6 months prior. Many malfunctioning systems onboard including sewage and numerous elevators, lots of rust on the balconies and rails, poorly patched damage in many places, broken glass and permanently clouded windows in spots… she’s really looking tired and worn. Don’t get me started on the stench coming from the pool bars on Lido…not sure what died in those drains but I’d have been pouring bleach everywhere if my bar had smelled like them.  
 

I’ve sailed other ships at 20 plus years of age including the Fascination and NCL Sun.  This is the only one that really looked like it hadn’t been maintained and maybe there aren’t plans to considering there was lots not done in dry dock 6 months ago.