Are men required to wear a jacket after 6pm all evenings in public spaces?

[RachelG]

1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:

Absolutely not. Why? Because jackets are never required on an expedition voyage.

correct.  over 100 nights of Silversea expedition ships and George has never taken a jacket.  I, OTOH, like to dress up so still take some fancy dresses, shoes, etc.  But am definitely in the minority. 

[Sadie Lady]

On 8/8/2022 at 6:18 AM, chrism23 said:

 We are leaving on the Cloud next week.  

 

I am packing.  So if anyone has an answer to this I would greatly appreciate a timely response.

 

BTW I love formal nights.  Its the only chance I have know to wear all the tuxedos I have accumulated over the years.   Cheers  Chris.

 

 

 

 

We are also on this Expedition cruise next week and were just having this discussion. Husband is not packing a jacket, which is very unusual for him. With all the many layers we are bringing for our unpredictable weather, there is not any extra room. So he is on the "no jacket for expedition cruises" bandwagon. (BTW: He also loves bringing a tux for formal nights.) See you in 6 days!  Sue & Lee 

[drron29]

Jackets definitely not required on Expedition ships. I would always pack one and usually 1 o2 others might wear a jacket.

The reason I packed a jacket though is because our trips were more than just a cruise. We would often go to a fine dining restaurant where a jacket was required.

 

As to the classic fleet I am a rebel. Some times I will pack my dinner suit but often for formal nights wear black trousers with a pink jacket and colourful bow tie. Never been questioned.

The best outfit was a fellow passenger who was from Goa. His formal Indian outfit was just fabulous. I was jealous.

 

Currently on the Dawn. Most on the formal night wore a jacket. On informal nights not so much. In the SALT Kitchen last night it was less than 50% of the men wearing a jacket on an informal night. Plus some short sleeve shirts with a couple with no collar.

[Gourmet Gal]

27 minutes ago, drron29 said:

Jackets definitely not required on Expedition ships. I would always pack one and usually 1 o2 others might wear a jacket.

The reason I packed a jacket though is because our trips were more than just a cruise. We would often go to a fine dining restaurant where a jacket was required.

 

As to the classic fleet I am a rebel. Some times I will pack my dinner suit but often for formal nights wear black trousers with a pink jacket and colourful bow tie. Never been questioned.

The best outfit was a fellow passenger who was from Goa. His formal Indian outfit was just fabulous. I was jealous.

 

Currently on the Dawn. Most on the formal night wore a jacket. On informal nights not so much. In the SALT Kitchen last night it was less than 50% of the men wearing a jacket on an informal night. Plus some short sleeve shirts with a couple with no collar.

Well who would dare argue with a pink jacket!?  The effort has got to be appreciated.

[Desperate to Sail]

18 minutes ago, drron29 said:

Currently on the Dawn. Most on the formal night wore a jacket. On informal nights not so much. In the SALT Kitchen last night it was less than 50% of the men wearing a jacket on an informal night. Plus some short sleeve shirts with a couple with no collar.

 

Nothing makes me angrier than stipulating an arbitrary rule and then not even bothering to enforce it. I'd rather not pack and haul a suit and a separate jacket but, if that's SS's protocol, I will follow it. It's no different than mandating  masks in certain public areas and then not enforcing the rule.

 

If this is the situation on our upcoming Dawn cruise, I will first bring it to the attention of the Maitre d' and if it persists, the Hotel Director. After that, in my cruise review.

 

Call me a hard ass if you wish. But I also stop at all red lights- not just the ones that suit (pun intended) me. 

[Gourmet Gal]

I just wish they would make it official and just relax the stuffiness of the dress code.  I’m glad to hear it’s not being rabidly enforced.

[Rothko1]

There is rabid enforcement, and then there is enforcement.  The dress code should be enforced.  What that means to me is that if someone shows up on formal night in the main dining room with jeans and a t-shirt and a baseball cap, they are not allowed in.  If a gentleman shows up with dark grey slacks, a blue blazer, white dress shirt and a bow tie, you go ahead and bend the rules and let him in.  

 

Where you draw the line is a challenge, I admit. 

[Gourmet Gal]

Exactly.  I would think the baseball/t-shirt on formal night would be an exception and relaxing the dress code wouldn’t result in a dire spiraling down of what is considered appropriate attire to fit the venue.  
 

So, is it the end of the earth if on formal night a gentleman wears a very nice blazer, dress pants, dress shirt and possibly no tie?  Would he be considered a total slacker, prompting clutching of pearls and complaints to the maitre d’?  Would the tie make a difference?  Would lack of a tie be the only thing preventing him from dining in say,  Atlantide?

[Stumblefoot]

42 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Would the tie make a difference?  Would lack of a tie be the only thing preventing him from dining in say,  Atlantide?

Pretty much. If a man wants to dine in Atlantide on a formal night, he needs to have a tie and be a gentleman. So simple.

[Desperate to Sail]

50 minutes ago, Rothko1 said:

There is rabid enforcement, and then there is enforcement.  The dress code should be enforced.  What that means to me is that if someone shows up on formal night in the main dining room with jeans and a t-shirt and a baseball cap, they are not allowed in.  If a gentleman shows up with dark grey slacks, a blue blazer, white dress shirt and a bow tie, you go ahead and bend the rules and let him in.  

 

Where you draw the line is a challenge, I admit. 

 

Where you would draw the line and where I would is not necessarily the same. That's why the the host (Silversea) draws the line. Then the guests know exactly what's expected This is how we, theoretically, co-exist in society. And if someone decides that they don't agree with the host's rules, that's fine. Just don't attend the event. 

[RetiredandTravel]

26 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Pretty much. If a man wants to dine in Atlantide on a formal night, he needs to have a tie and be a gentleman. So simple.

 

I guess there is some ambiguity on other parts of the ship during the evening but this seems pretty straight forward.

 

26 minutes ago, Desperate to Sail said:

 

Where you would draw the line and where I would is not necessarily the same. That's why the the host (Silversea) draws the line. Then the guests know exactly what's expected This is how we, theoretically, co-exist in society. And if someone decides that they don't agree with the host's rules, that's fine. Just don't attend the event. 

 

 

Agreed.  My next SS cruise, with the current guidelines,  I will take a suit & tie. 

 

See Lois told ya 😁

[Rothko1]

23 minutes ago, Desperate to Sail said:

 

Where you would draw the line and where I would is not necessarily the same. That's why the the host (Silversea) draws the line. Then the guests know exactly what's expected This is how we, theoretically, co-exist in society. And if someone decides that they don't agree with the host's rules, that's fine. Just don't attend the event. 

 

Oh, I agree. SS has to be the one to draw the line.  And that isn't easy.

 

They have three options:

 

1)  Rigidly enforce the dress code - if someone isn't in a tuxedo or dark suit on formal night they don't come in.  But even that has issues:  what if it is foreign black tie - such as Indian, or Asian formal dress?  Western formal (bolo tie)?  What is a "dark suit"??  Pinstripes allowed?  How wide the stripes or what colors??

 

2)  Don't enforce the dress code - Let chaos rule the Seas! 

 

3)  Try to reasonably enforce the dress code - Silversea staff such as maître d's will have to make judgment calls.  And that's not easy to do.  Especially when they run the risk of driving off future customers.

 

It's a problem faced by every decent restaurant:  A potential diner walks through the door, sloppily dressed.  He's a paying customer - you need the business.  Do you turn him aside?  Maybe he was going to order the beluga caviar with Krug, followed by the filet and lobster with a 1986 Pichon Lalande.  Or do you let him in, and your other customers get angry or perhaps stop visiting your place.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Gourmet Gal]

16 minutes ago, Rothko1 said:

 

Oh, I agree. SS has to be the one to draw the line.  And that isn't easy.

 

They have three options:

 

1)  Rigidly enforce the dress code - if someone isn't in a tuxedo or dark suit on formal night they don't come in.  But even that has issues:  what if it is foreign black tie - such as Indian, or Asian formal dress?  Western formal (bolo tie)?  What is a "dark suit"??  Pinstripes allowed?  How wide the stripes or what colors??

 

2)  Don't enforce the dress code - Let chaos rule the Seas! 

 

3)  Try to reasonably enforce the dress code - Silversea staff such as maître d's will have to make judgment calls.  And that's not easy to do.  Especially when they run the risk of driving off future customers.

 

It's a problem faced by every decent restaurant:  A potential diner walks through the door, sloppily dressed.  He's a paying customer - you need the business.  Do you turn him aside?  Maybe he was going to order the beluga caviar with Krug, followed by the filet and lobster with a 1986 Pichon Lalande.  Or do you let him in, and your other customers get angry or perhaps stop visiting your place.  

 

 

 

 

 

Sloppily dressed is certainly an issue but since you mention land-based restaurants, even the ones that politely request business attire will not turn away a well-dressed patron who does not have a tie.  It is becoming rare for fine dining, Michelin-starred establishments to even require a relaxed, business casual attire.  SS really needs to modernize in this respect.  The dress code gives the company a staid, outmoded  image to new cruisers who have the means to travel elegantly and with high expectations for service and luxury.  Luxury to them does not mean lugging blazers and suits and wearing ties.

 

 

[RetiredandTravel]

22 minutes ago, Rothko1 said:

 

 

It's a problem faced by every decent restaurant:  A potential diner walks through the door, sloppily dressed.  He's a paying customer - you need the business.  Do you turn him aside?  Maybe he was going to order the beluga caviar with Krug, followed by the filet and lobster with a 1986 Pichon Lalande.  Or do you let him in, and your other customers get angry or perhaps stop visiting your place.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Several years ago, I had an investor dinner at the "21" Club in NYC, 21 had a very strict jacket and tie rule.  One of the attendees, a hedge fund manger, showed up in a t-shirt and jeans.  "21" gave him a tie and jacket which he put on with the t-shirt a jeans.  The guy had a good sense of humor and we all got some good laughs out of it.

 

The way the SS formal dress code is going now its just irritating everyone, I'm sure including the staff.

[A Tucson Guy]

On my next cruise this Nov. on the Dawn, on formal nights I am going to wear a dark Armani sports coat, tie, and similar dark slacks. What do you want to bet that I will be able to eat in any restaurant? Just less to pack and haul!

[Rothko1]

20 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

The dress code gives the company a staid, outmoded  image to new cruisers who have the means to travel elegantly and with high expectations for service and luxury.  Luxury to them does not mean lugging blazers and suits and wearing ties.

 

 

 

I know we have different opinions on this, and I respect yours, but your statement above undercuts your argument.

 

What does it mean to travel elegantly?  Is a tuxedo elegant?  Yes.   A dark suit?  Possibly.  Blazer and tie?  Possibly.  

 

I'm trying very hard to think of a scenario where men dressing in slacks and shirts without a jacket of any kind is "elegant".  Or imparts any sense of "luxury".   Maybe a Hamptons White Party, but other than that, I can't think of anything that would approach elegant or luxury, by my definition.

 

What I think distinguishes Silversea from the other luxury lines is that SS does have a dress code, and people do dress up on formal nights, and they appreciate the level of elegance that allows.  If you don't want to adhere to a formal dress code, there are other high-end cruise lines that specifically advertise their "dress down" culture.  And I would never fault someone for choosing one of those.  Just as I am sure there are some people who specifically choose Silversea because of their more formal approach.  I am one of them.

[Gourmet Gal]

True, we disagree on the definition of elegant and what really attracts travelers to SS.  I didn’t mean to imply sans jacket can be “elegant” just that having to travel with jacket (as in a sport coat) and a suit is overkill to many travelers who are used to traveling in style and comfort.

[Stumblefoot]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:06 AM, Gourmet Gal said:

Perhaps the SS dress code is going to be relaxed in the near future and staff knows that forcing the issue is soon to be a moot point.  Fingers crossed. 

 

On 7/9/2022 at 12:53 PM, Gourmet Gal said:

Just looking for a dress code that matches the age we live in where one can be elegant, stylish and tasteful in less formal attire.

 

On 7/14/2022 at 8:24 AM, Gourmet Gal said:

We can only hope there is an easing of the dress code to reflect the style of the demographic that SS is courting.

 

On 7/31/2022 at 9:30 AM, Gourmet Gal said:

Hopefully!  Though shorts should be verboten in the evening...

 

On 8/1/2022 at 11:51 AM, Gourmet Gal said:

I just wish the vibe and dress codes were more country club or high-end resort rather than black-tie gala at the dressiest spectrum.

 

On 8/1/2022 at 4:08 PM, Gourmet Gal said:

The SS dress code is obviously going to adapt to the modern world eventually...

 

4 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

I just wish they would make it official and just relax the stuffiness of the dress code. 

 

3 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

...relaxing the dress code wouldn’t result in a dire spiraling down of what is considered appropriate attire to fit the venue.

 

2 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

SS really needs to modernize in this respect.  The dress code gives the company a staid, outmoded image...

 

You are nothing if not persistent, I'll give you that. 

 

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I don't begrudge that fact, how many more posts do you think will be necessary before you'll feel we understand your point-of-view and as such, will no longer have to express your opinion on this matter?  I'd suggest nine times is more than enough throughout an entire forum, let alone a singular topic like you've done here.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Stumblefoot

[Gourmet Gal]

I didn’t know there was a limit.  

[drron29]

So tonight we dined in Kaiseki and there were to us 2 disturbing occurrences,

First a party of 4 turned up without a booking and wanted to be seated as there were 6 empty seats. The Maitre'D turned them away. Ten minutes later the F&B manager turns up and asked the Maitre'D why he turned them away as they had complained to him. The Maitre'd said 4 of those seats were reserve. What time? For 8.30. So Manager says I will ask them to return at 9.00 and if the reservations aren't seated by the you will let them stay. When we left just before 9 the 4 had turned up but as well the second disturbing incident had occurred.

 

A couple walked in and sat then selves down at the empty table. This was the fellow -deliberately blurred.

 

So the fellow in the middle with white untidy pants,a short sleeve shirt with a pink cardigan over that.This really upset Rojaan and she asked the Maitre'D why he wasn't turned away. He replied that he couldn't say no. She asked if that was an order from above. He didn't reply but was obviously quite uncomfortable. Only 1 conclusion can be reached from the 2 incidents. Middle management is not supporting those on the front line. The guest questionnaire was on our bed when we returned to the room. Not all comments were good.

 

[RetiredandTravel]

8 minutes ago, drron29 said:

So tonight we dined in Kaiseki and there were to us 2 disturbing occurrences,

First a party of 4 turned up without a booking and wanted to be seated as there were 6 empty seats. The Maitre'D turned them away. Ten minutes later the F&B manager turns up and asked the Maitre'D why he turned them away as they had complained to him. The Maitre'd said 4 of those seats were reserve. What time? For 8.30. So Manager says I will ask them to return at 9.00 and if the reservations aren't seated by the you will let them stay. When we left just before 9 the 4 had turned up but as well the second disturbing incident had occurred.

 

A couple walked in and sat then selves down at the empty table. This was the fellow -deliberately blurred.

 

So the fellow in the middle with white untidy pants,a short sleeve shirt with a pink cardigan over that.This really upset Rojaan and she asked the Maitre'D why he wasn't turned away. He replied that he couldn't say no. She asked if that was an order from above. He didn't reply but was obviously quite uncomfortable. Only 1 conclusion can be reached from the 2 incidents. Middle management is not supporting those on the front line. The guest questionnaire was on our bed when we returned to the room. Not all comments were good.

 

 

 

Therein lies the problem.  SS is asking employees to reprimand the customers who are going to review them and his manager doesn't back him up.  So the Maitre'D does his job and they go over his head and he's overruled, what signal does that send to all the employees.  Any decent manager would have had his back.  I sense SS has to be more forceful in defining and enforcing formal night or succumb to Gourmet Gal. 😆

 

Me? I wouldn't let this stuff interfere with my vacation, not worth it.

 

 

[Stumblefoot]

55 minutes ago, drron29 said:

Middle management is not supporting those on the front line.

Really disturbing to read, Dr. Ron. Sounds as if the Hotel Director needs to provide some coaching to their F&B leaders.

 

Being able to afford to sail on an ultra-luxury cruise line unfortunately doesn't mean the same when it comes to manners.  Thankfully, I've only witnessed some really abhorrent behavior a couple of times on SS, but in both cases the Maître d' had the venue Manager's back.  With all of the new leaders now sailing on board SS ships since the pandemic, I hope your experience is an aberration and doesn't become the norm.

[Silver Spectre]

2 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

I didn’t know there was a limit.  

You thought a previous comment was a little harsh, but my, a broken record comes to mind.

[Silver Spectre]

2 hours ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 

 I sense SS has to be more forceful in defining and enforcing formal night or succumb to Gourmet Gal. 😆

 

 

Perish the thought 🤪

[cruiseej]

I don't think this was a case of the F&B Manager overruling the Maitre d' — it was coming up with a viable solution to try to satisfy a customer. If anything, the Maitre d' could have told the party that wanted to be seated the same thing, rather than just turning them away. "Sir, that table is reserved for a party who has an 8:30 reservation. If you would like, you could check back with me shortly before 9:00 in case that party does not show up — in which case I would be glad to seat you."  There could be other reasons as well, and offering an explanation should resolve the issue with all but the most difficult customer. For instance: "Sir, I am very sorry, but one of our waiters is out sick this evening, and we therefore can't fill every table being down a staff member. I'm sure you can understand that would create a poor service situation which you you wouldn't be happy with, as well as for all the other passengers dining with us this evening. Can I perhaps book a reservation for you on another evening, or would you like to come back later when some of the current diners have competed their meal?"

 

As for the passenger who showed up improperly attired, I'm with @RetiredandTravel: I would not let it interfere with my wife and I having a wonderful evening. We'd probably raise our glasses in a mock toast to the jerk who doesn't follow the rules because he doesn't believe the rules apply to him, and then go about enjoying our dinner without giving it another thought.