Are hotels getting some competition?

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

It is pretty difficult to change bylaws because it is not a majority vote. In my Maryland condo it took 60% and in my Texas condo I beileve it is 66% of owners. And that percentage is of owners on the rolls not the percent of people who vote

 

That situation is us.  We require 75% of owners to approve a change.  I think reaching such a percentage is a pipe dream and I am not willing to commit spending money for legal fees to attempt to do so.  As an older community, we have had, are having, and will have more issues that require a expenditure of money for which we have not budgeted.  We are, after many years of not being so, in good financial shape.  I took to heart the lessons that I think I learned about that condo in Florida that collapsed.  We need to set aside, as best that we can, more than the percentage Ohio requires to be placed in our Reserve Fund.  

[jsn55]

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

The condo HOA where I work has a strict "no third party" rental policy.  The property management company i work for is also a vacation home rental company.  If an owner wants to rent out the unit, it has to go through us.  We provide the HK, concierge service on behalf of the owners as well as for the owners themselves.  We are a hybrid, I guess.  But, in my neighborhood, our HOA prohibits overnight rentals, must be at least 6 months so that we can rent seasonally.  Workers in the area can't find places to live because so many people who own condos/houses have gone the VRBO/AirBnB route. 

Amazing timing ... we are looking for a 'long-term seasonal rental' of several months somewhere where it's warm in winter.  I had no idea there were companies like yours ... I love that idea, I'd feel very comfortable renting from professionals.  I'll go see if I can figure out how to get this info. 

[Charles4515]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I strongly recommend HOA members to check into endorsing their HO policy with Loss Assessment Coverage.   

Most owners get their policy and the default is $1000 or $5000 which is not enough and don't question it.. In Maryland our HOA policy covered anything over $10,000 so I raised mine from $1000 to $10,000. In Texas when I was getting quotes some would only insure $5000 loss assesment which was not enough so I went witha company that would insure me higher. Here i have $25,000 loss assesment. It really does not cost much to raise the loss assesment coverage from the default. 

[Sea42]

When we travel with our dogs we always use VRBO. The younger dog does not react well to random noises (such as people in a hallway) so a rental house or cabin is always what we go with. Those trips tend to be more rural, outdoorsy types of vacations and we've had great experiences with those rentals.

For city visits (we don't take the dogs to the city), we generally go with a hotel.

For us there isn't a one size fits all answer. So far, we've been disappointed occasionally with a hotel but never with a rental.

[rkacruiser]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I strongly recommend HOA members to check into endorsing their HO policy with Loss Assessment Coverage.   

 

I have not heard of this coverage.  Thank you.  I will do some checking.

 

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Now they are putting 10% of the fee towards reserves to build them up.

 

Ohio requires 10% of our annual budget to go to Reserves.  But, the requirement is not actively enforced.  My goal as a Trustee is a percentage that is closer to 20-25%.  We have not needed to raise our condo fees in several years and still get "things done and improvements made" within our current income.  (2022 is going to be an exception with parking lot repaving/sealing and some sidewalk repair being needed.  One building, we recently learned, could use a new roof.  It's not leaking yet, so that may have to be deferred until 2023.  Yet to be determined.)

 

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

It really does not cost much to raise the loss assesment coverage from the default. 

 

You answered a question that was forming in my mind.  I have an Umbrella Policy for $1,000,000.  It's annual cost is quite low.  

[ldubs]

13 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

You answered a question that was forming in my mind.  I have an Umbrella Policy for $1,000,000.  It's annual cost is quite low.  

 

Not sure you were even considering this, but your personal umbrella is not likely to cover loss assessment exposures.    

[Charles4515]

4 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

You answered a question that was forming in my mind.  I have an Umbrella Policy for $1,000,000.  It's annual cost is quite low.  

An umbrella policy is a liability policy. A good thing to have but not what you need for loss assesment coverage. Loss assesment is for something like a flood. It varies by state but for example in Maryland if there was a flood the association had to have policy that covered over $10,000 in damages but from 0 to 10000 the individual owner was responsible. So the loss assesment coverage would cover that gap. If there was a special assesment for damage to infrastucture in common areas from storm damage it could cover that. Your umbrella policy will cover you if you collide with a Porsche and your liability is more than your auto policy liability coverage. That is quite possible if you collide with an expensive auto. You probably have loss assesment coverage in your personal Homeowners policy but often the default amount is too low and condo owners find that out after they have a claim. The amount needed can vary so I won't make a suggestion but one thing you have to consider with your  individual condo insurance coverage  is that the what the condo policy covers is to bring it back to builders standard. If you made any improvements or renovations that won't be covered so you need to cover any improvements in you policy.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Charles4515

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

An umbrella policy is a liability policy. A good thing to have but not what you need for loss assesment coverage. Loss assesment is for something like a flood. It varies by state but for example in Maryland if there was a flood the association had to have policy that covered over $10,000 in damages but from 0 to 10000 the individual owner was responsible. So the loss assesment coverage would cover that gap. If there was a special assesment for damage to infrastucture in common areas from storm damage it could cover that. Your umbrella policy will cover you if you collide with a Porsche and your liability is more than your auto policy liability coverage. That is quite possible if you collide with an expensive auto. You probably have loss assesment coverage in your personal Homeowners policy but often the default amount is too low and condo owners find that out after they have a claim. The amount needed can vary so I won't make a suggestion but one thing you have to consider with your  individual condo insurance coverage  is that the what the condo policy covers is to bring it back to builders standard. If you made any improvements or renovations that won't be covered so you need to cover any improvements in you policy.

 

Thanks.  The Loss Assessment will also provide coverage for liability losses that would exceed the HOA's master policy limits.  

[navybankerteacher]

On 8/27/2022 at 3:20 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

My HOA's Board has discussed the potential need to revise our documents for at least 3 years.  One of the changes that we have discussed is to banning rentals.  I am unsure that we ought to do that and I am very unsure if we could get the 75% approval of our homeowners needed to make that change.  

One thing for HOA’s to consider is the fact that many lending institutions will not provide mortgage financing if more than a certain low percentage of units are rented.  When owners are made aware of this, they will be more accepting of restrictions on renting.  They may give up the opportunity to rent, but they are protecting their ability to sell (as well as the market value of their properties).

 

The fact is:  if an association has too many units rented, the value of all go down — owners who rent generally want cash flow and minimal upkeep expenses.

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

One thing for HOA’s to consider is the fact that many lending institutions will not provide mortgage financing if more than a certain low percentage of units are rented.  When owners are made aware of this, they will be more accepting of restrictions on renting.  They may give up the opportunity to rent, but they are protecting their ability to sell (as well as the market value of their properties).

 

The fact is:  if an association has too many units rented, the value of all go down — owners who rent generally want cash flow and minimal upkeep expenses.

 

I learned my lesson condo ownership over this issue.

 

My first home was a condo. It was intended to help me start creating wealth. I had a brand new job and was young and single. The plan was to live in it and start earning equity and retain it as a (long term) rental property if I ever got married. When I purchase the condo, that was entirely allowed by the HOA. 

 

This was in 2007. By 2009 the HOA opted to change the rental rules to retain owner occupancy in the building to make it easier for new owners to get FHA mortgages. It was a terrible policy because it forced people to sell at a huge loss, and overall lowering market values. By then I had moved in with a long term boyfriend and was renting my unit. We got through that period and eventually sold my unit at a reasonable price. But it was a pretty shocking experience to learn how many restrictions a HOA could impose on a property that I "owned" and that those restrictions could change at any time. 

[Charles4515]

4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

I learned my lesson condo ownership over this issue.

 

My first home was a condo. It was intended to help me start creating wealth. I had a brand new job and was young and single. The plan was to live in it and start earning equity and retain it as a (long term) rental property if I ever got married. When I purchase the condo, that was entirely allowed by the HOA. 

 

This was in 2007. By 2009 the HOA opted to change the rental rules to retain owner occupancy in the building to make it easier for new owners to get FHA mortgages. It was a terrible policy because it forced people to sell at a huge loss, and overall lowering market values. By then I had moved in with a long term boyfriend and was renting my unit. We got through that period and eventually sold my unit at a reasonable price. But it was a pretty shocking experience to learn how many restrictions a HOA could impose on a property that I "owned" and that those restrictions could change at any time. 

 

All owners have a vote on a bylaw change and they are difficult to pass. Your HOA owners must have had a real problem selling to potential buyers if it passed. As said by Navybankerteacher above too many renters brings property values down. The owners of those units spend minimal on upkeep. In my old condo building in Maryland those units were dated and had old appliances. Another problem was that many renters did not understand that the owner they were renting from was the landlord and would call the HOA office with demands when their HVAC was having problems, their appliances failed or disposal failed, all the unit owners responsibility.  Speaking of Airbnb most of the violations of the policy on short term rentals were not owners putting units on Airbnb, it was renters! The absentee owners had no idea their tenents were using the units for Airbnb. The Maryland condo had someone checking AirBnb listings and when they found them, sometimes they were disguised but they were discovered by keywords or photos in the listing  and also the condo had a full time concierges. Then they would call the owner who was usually surprised. You would not want to be the renter or the Airbnb renter. The Airbnb renter could show up and not be let in. 

[jsn55]

I thank my lucky stars that I never had to buy a condo or townhouse or anything run by an HOA.  The idea of being dictated to by an HOA about what color I can paint my picket fence is horrifying.  And now with the vacation rental boom, it's even worse.  Transient people all over the place, ugh.  They don't have much pride of ownership, do they?

[Charles4515]

10 hours ago, jsn55 said:

I thank my lucky stars that I never had to buy a condo or townhouse or anything run by an HOA.  The idea of being dictated to by an HOA about what color I can paint my picket fence is horrifying.  And now with the vacation rental boom, it's even worse.  Transient people all over the place, ugh.  They don't have much pride of ownership, do they?

No one has to buy a condo, townhouse or property that has an HOA. There are advantages and disadvantages to owning a home, a condo, townhouse or renting. As far as HOA’s dictating, the HOA board is elected by the owners. Don’t like their policies then elect them out. Transient people from Airbnb rentals is in the the single family house neighborhoods without HOA’s that have no rules. Party houses disrupting the neighborhood. 

 

To each their own, I don’t want a picket fence. I like to walk to the supermarket, restaurants and museums. Our amenities are somewhat like being on a cruise all the time, concierge, pool, spa pool, cabanas, fitness center. Taking care of a yard is not for me now. Here I can age in place. I can lock and leave when I travel. My choices for my lifestyle were buying a condo, or renting. Since I was able to pay cash and not have a mortgage the condo was a better choice. In that regard I also find that hotels are generally a better choice for me than Airbnb when I travel. The Airbnbs I did were generally a pain in some way or another and you could find they were not as advertised. So I don’t do them anymore if a good hotel is available.  

[cruisemom42]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:17 PM, Markanddonna said:

I also noted that a hotel we had booked last January 2022 for $201 per night is now $129 a night for next Jan 2023. 

 

I think the travel industry -- particularly hotels and cruise lines, which have fixed assets -- may have been a little overenthusiastic about how quickly the demand for travel would pick up once most COVID restrictions were loosened. Over and over we heard from cruise line CEOs about robust future bookings and demand, and yet now I see quite a few sales, incentives and price reductions. 

 

Airlines, on the other hand, laid off significant numbers of people and it seems they couldn't ramp up quickly enough, leading to many of the problems we saw this past summer: canceled flights, luggage handling issues, etc.

 

I'm not exactly sure where rentals fit in. 

 

[cruisemom42]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:17 PM, Markanddonna said:

I also noted that a hotel we had booked last January 2022 for $201 per night is now $129 a night for next Jan 2023. 

 

I think the travel industry -- particularly hotels and cruise lines, which have fixed assets -- may have been a little overenthusiastic about how quickly the demand for travel would pick up once most COVID restrictions were loosened. Over and over we heard from cruise line CEOs about robust future bookings and demand, and yet now I see quite a few sales, incentives and price reductions. 

 

Airlines, on the other hand, laid off significant numbers of people and it seems they couldn't ramp up quickly enough, leading to many of the problems we saw this past summer: canceled flights, luggage handling issues, etc.

 

I'm not exactly sure where rentals fit in. 

 

[cruisemom42]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:17 PM, Markanddonna said:

I also noted that a hotel we had booked last January 2022 for $201 per night is now $129 a night for next Jan 2023. 

 

I think the travel industry -- particularly hotels and cruise lines, which have fixed assets -- may have been a little overenthusiastic about how quickly the demand for travel would pick up once most COVID restrictions were loosened. Over and over we heard from cruise line CEOs about robust future bookings and demand, and yet now I see quite a few sales, incentives and price reductions. 

 

Airlines, on the other hand, laid off significant numbers of people and it seems they couldn't ramp up quickly enough, leading to many of the problems we saw this past summer: canceled flights, luggage handling issues, etc.

 

I'm not exactly sure where rentals fit in. 

 

[sanger727]

18 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

All owners have a vote on a bylaw change and they are difficult to pass. Your HOA owners must have had a real problem selling to potential buyers if it passed. As said by Navybankerteacher above too many renters brings property values down. The owners of those units spend minimal on upkeep. In my old condo building in Maryland those units were dated and had old appliances. Another problem was that many renters did not understand that the owner they were renting from was the landlord and would call the HOA office with demands when their HVAC was having problems, their appliances failed or disposal failed, all the unit owners responsibility.  Speaking of Airbnb most of the violations of the policy on short term rentals were not owners putting units on Airbnb, it was renters! The absentee owners had no idea their tenents were using the units for Airbnb. The Maryland condo had someone checking AirBnb listings and when they found them, sometimes they were disguised but they were discovered by keywords or photos in the listing  and also the condo had a full time concierges. Then they would call the owner who was usually surprised. You would not want to be the renter or the Airbnb renter. The Airbnb renter could show up and not be let in. 

 

It was 2008. Everyone had trouble selling. In a downturn market, forcing owners who no longer to live there to sell also brings down property values. 

[navybankerteacher]

13 hours ago, jsn55 said:

I thank my lucky stars that I never had to buy a condo or townhouse or anything run by an HOA.  The idea of being dictated to by an HOA about what color I can paint my picket fence is horrifying.  And now with the vacation rental boom, it's even worse.  Transient people all over the place, ugh.  They don't have much pride of ownership, do they?

Some HOA restrictions can be onerous, but a well run HOA offers many pluses: while you are not permitted to paint your fence purple with yellow and lavender stripes,  neither can your neighbor.  As you get to the age of not wanting to climb ladders, it is nice to have the association take care of clearing leaves from your gutters, as well as organizing lawn mowing, leaf raking, trash removal, snow plowing, tree maintenance, etc. -  all while not having to listen to your neighbor’s gas powered leaf blower at 7:00 on a weekend morning. Transients are not a problem- only two of our twenty-two houses can be rented out at any given time - and the minimum term is twelve months.

 

 These functions are far more economically seen to by an association - and you do not have to look at your neighbor’s trash pile while he/she gets around to doing something about it - or put up with a neighbor conducting business with traffic coming and going Of course, there can be badly run associations - but in ours, of 22 stand alone houses (largely owned by folks who have down-sized from larger houses), we have the  right to have input - without the obligation to see to all the nitty-gritty details of home ownership.

[Charles4515]

16 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

It was 2008. Everyone had trouble selling. In a downturn market, forcing owners who no longer to live there to sell also brings down property values.

I am surprised you had to sell. I never saw a policy requiring a bylaw change, a supermajority of votes pass unless the current owners were grandfathered. Was it a very small HOA? Since bylaws changes are based on ownership on the rolls those who don't bother to vote are the same as a no. It is very difficult to get a bylaw change.. 

 

In 2008 I sold my mothers condo. It took a little longer than we would have liked but we only dropped the price $5000 from asking price. But it was a very nice newer condo and they had a pool and clubhouse.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Charles4515

[navybankerteacher]

2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I am surprised you had to sell. I never saw a policy requiring a bylaw change, a supermajority of votes pass unless the current owners were grandfathered. Was it a very small HOA? Since bylaws changes are based on ownership on the rolls those who don't bother to vote are the same as a no. It is very difficult to get a bylaw change.. 

 

In 2008 I sold my mothers condo. It took a little longer than we would have liked but we only dropped the price $5000 from asking price. 

In our association, if the duly elected board proposes an annual budget, or a by-law modification, it is put to the owners to vote- it passes unless a majority votes against it. The notion of letting apathetic non-voters run things by their disinterest is absurd.

[Charles4515]

45 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

In our association, if the duly elected board proposes an annual budget, or a by-law modification, it is put to the owners to vote- it passes unless a majority votes against it. The notion of letting apathetic non-voters run things by their disinterest is absurd.

It is absurd but in Maryland it is state law that 60% of ownersin condo assoc.  have to agree to a bylaw change. Unless you pass a bylaw making it less than 60%. It used to be 66% but that was modifed a few years ago and apathetic non voters would still be like a no. It took years of lobbying to get the 67% number lowered by the state legislature. plus Maryand is a compact and the counties have their own powers and  regulations........so they can overide some of the original bylaws by county law. Budgets and the like only require board approval but the board has to send the budget out for comment.I don't know about non condo HOA's in Maryland, they might have a different requirement  Here in Texas it is 67% for condos from what I can tell for a bylaw change. Texas seems very much like Maryland but I could be wrong, I knew Maryland condo law backwords and forwords but I have only skimmed the Texas laws as i have not been here long. Every state has laws governing HOA's. They are pretty similiar in every state but also there are differences in every state. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Charles4515

[slidergirl]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I think the travel industry -- particularly hotels and cruise lines, which have fixed assets -- may have been a little overenthusiastic about how quickly the demand for travel would pick up once most COVID restrictions were loosened. Over and over we heard from cruise line CEOs about robust future bookings and demand, and yet now I see quite a few sales, incentives and price reductions. 

 

Airlines, on the other hand, laid off significant numbers of people and it seems they couldn't ramp up quickly enough, leading to many of the problems we saw this past summer: canceled flights, luggage handling issues, etc.

 

I'm not exactly sure where rentals fit in. 

 

Rentals may be in the same boat (pun intended) as hotels.  Very minimal income during the pandemic, so they are big in competing with hotels for business.  

Just from my condos - during the pandemic we didn't see many guest rentals at all.  Owners came and stayed to avoid COVID in their areas or they'd send family members to quarantine.  yes, we had college-age kids of owners show up to stay for quarantine - we'd put the keys in the condo, unlock the door, and they'd go up the garage elevator to their unit and no one had any contact.   How they got to town was not our business...

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

It is absurd but in Maryland it is state law that 60% of ownersin condo assoc.  have to agree to a bylaw change. Unless you pass a bylaw making it less than 60%. It used to be 66% but that was modifed a few years ago and apathetic non voters would still be like a no. It took years of lobbying to get the 67% number lowered by the state legislature. plus Maryand is a compact and the counties have their own powers and  regulations........so they can overide some of the original bylaws by county law. Budgets and the like only require board approval but the board has to send the budget out for comment.I don't know about non condo HOA's in Maryland, they might have a different requirement  Here in Texas it is 67% for condos from what I can tell for a bylaw change. Texas seems very much like Maryland but I could be wrong, I knew Maryland condo law backwords and forwords but I have only skimmed the Texas laws as i have not been here long. Every state has laws governing HOA's. They are pretty similiar in every state but also there are differences in every state. 

Our HOA is a PUD - a planned unit development.  22 stand alone houses each built on its own “Limited Common Element” (LCE)  adjoining a a “”forever wild” undeveloped woodland preserve. Aside from the preserve, our paved roadway (which is a private road which the association must maintain) and a small patch with the association’s mail boxes, every square inch belongs to one of the LCE’s.  Most common ownerships in CT are traditional condo’s with several units within each building - and the association is responsible for maintaining the buildings themselves, while the owners just have the paint on their walls.  Here, the individual owners are responsible for maintaining their exterior walls, roofs, garages, decks, patios, etc - which can only be modified with approval of the association.

Edited August 30, 2022 by navybankerteacher

[Charles4515]

48 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Our HOA is a PUD - a planned unit development.  22 stand alone houses each built on its own “Limited Common Element” (LCE)

I know they have something like that here in Texas. I looked at one development that had stand alone houses, small yard that the owner maintained,  the outside and inside owners responsibility. It had a clubhouse and pool. HOA covered the roads and pool. Plus they had an over 55 section with a higher HOA fee where they did the landscaping, an over 55 clubhouse/pool with activities, and  fitness center. Because of the weather in Texas planned devlopments will have a pool. I would have had to wait a year and a half for the house and while the basic price looked okay almost everyone including myself would want upgrade add ons like premium appliances,  hardwood floors, etc. There are lot of these planned developments in Texas and there always new ones. There is a huge amount of ranch land always becoming avaiIable  not yet developed. I don't know how those HOA's are governed but the HOA fees were a lot less than condo fees. The over 55 had a $200 added fee. My sister and her husband found a house, no HOA but that was not the reason they bought it, they liked the house and neighborhood. Forty people bid on the house and they won, cash is king over financing. Two years ago that house would have sold for 30% less but with Californians etc. moving to Texas demand skyrocketed. Housing is no longer cheap here. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Charles4515

[Markanddonna]

If you folks want to see inexpensive travel, consider going to Poland. I am always amazed at the high quality hotels and apartments, the inexpensive food, and transportation.