If You Have Covid A Day Before You Cruise

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

It's not a problem to me but clearly is to the immune deficiency people some of whom are only just getting brave enough to go out.

 

The poor lady on the Ventura Masks thread might have wanted to know so she didn't book for instance.

Too right. It’s literally a matter of life and death to half a million people of all ages in the UK because we get little or no protection from the vaccines protecting everyone else - and there’s an outright refusal to fund the one drug that would protect us - Evusheld.

[picsa]

7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

It's not a problem to me but clearly is to the immune deficiency people some of whom are only just getting brave enough to go out.

 

The poor lady on the Ventura Masks thread might have wanted to know so she didn't book for instance.

But would it have helped knowing there were x cases on board when you don’t know whether that is good or bad compared to the local area.

 

7 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

There is still some detail, but it’s not that easy to find because it was deemed unhelpful. Whether you agree with that analysis depends on whether you like your facts public or hidden, and if you need that information to enable you to calculate your own personal risk - you’re stuffed! And quite possibly in an ICU bed.

 

Not entirely sure how someone calculates a personal risk when the figures are not being collected because they were no longer useful.

 

A person’s personal risk is most likely going to be dependent on their own individual health, irrespective of COVID rates.

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, picsa said:

But would it have helped knowing there were x cases on board when you don’t know whether that is good or bad compared to the local area.

 

 

Not entirely sure how someone calculates a personal risk when the figures are not being collected because they were no longer useful.

 

A person’s personal risk is most likely going to be dependent on their own individual health, irrespective of COVID rates.

Knowledge is everything when calculating personal risk. You know your own state of health and the likely outcome from Covid. The one thing you don’t know is the rate of infection in relevant locations. That information is still out there - it comes primarily from the ONS and the Zoe Study. It’s not easy to find though, but it’s essential in calculating risk.

 

UK hospitalisations increased by around 50% last week - and that’s reflects case numbers. Also what’s happening now on cruise ships. It’s a serious issue, but certain factors are deliberately underplaying it because it doesn’t fit an agenda.

[Harry Peterson]

6 minutes ago, happy v said:

Oh Harry you won't die. I know of lots of I.D. patients who have caught it and been given a drug and all have been better within 24/48 hours. Please don't worry.

Thanks, but I can assure you, sadly, that many more are simply being denied those drugs, and the window is just five days. It’s not just being immunocompromised that matters, unfortunately - it’s also the underlying condition. And that’s why risking cruises at the moment with high rates of infection is so unwise.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Harry Peterson

[picsa]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Knowledge is everything when calculating personal risk. You know your own state of health and the likely outcome from Covid. The one thing you don’t know is the rate of infection in relevant locations. That information is still out there - it comes primarily from the ONS and the Zoe Study. It’s not easy to find though, but it’s essential in calculating risk.

 

UK hospitalisations increased by around 50% last week - and that’s reflects case numbers. Also what’s happening now on cruise ships. It’s a serious issue, but certain factors are deliberately underplaying it because it doesn’t fit an agenda.

With virtually no UK testing then the ONS and ZOE reports are going to be very ‘broad brush’ and certainly wouldn’t be helpful in telling anyone about the actual rates in their local area - the Zoe study places my area in the red but I am not aware of anyone infected.

 

And percentage increases are meaningless - did the 50% increase mean there are now three patients up from two last week.

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Thanks, but I can assure you, sadly, that many more are simply being denied those drugs, and the window is just five days. It’s not just being immunocompromised that matters, unfortunately - it’s also the underlying condition. And that’s why risking cruises at the moment with high rates of infection is so unwise.

Thank you for your insight from someone affected.  I find it sad so many don't understand or just couldn't care less.

 

Figures here are announced via the local paper each week.  We have 23 hospitalised at last Friday.

 

I think I.might retire from this topic now it's wandering.  If I have any useful information for people be it from insurers, the FCA or P&O I will post then if it seems relevant.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Megabear2

[wowzz]

Just looking at my Staysure policy.

If I want to make a Covid claim, I have to provide a copy of the positive test result, supplied by registered medical practitioner.

Not going to be easy.

And, how would that work on board ? I assume that P&O medical staff are registered, and that they would supply a certified copy of my positive test result, so that I could make any relevant claim.

[wowzz]

17 minutes ago, GSPG said:

But they just wanted all monies and I feel they have been negligent to some guests welcoming them back on board knowing the risks to them. 

We are all adults. We have to make our own decisions, based on our own health, risk tolerance etc.

It is not up to the cruise company, or indeed any holiday company, to make that decision for us. Why should they ?

Cruises/holidays are made available - it is up to us as individuals to decide if we want to book them. As far as I can make out,  no one has ever been press ganged into joining a cruise. 

 

[Harry Peterson]

25 minutes ago, wowzz said:

We are all adults. We have to make our own decisions, based on our own health, risk tolerance etc.

It is not up to the cruise company, or indeed any holiday company, to make that decision for us. Why should they ?

Cruises/holidays are made available - it is up to us as individuals to decide if we want to book them. As far as I can make out,  no one has ever been press ganged into joining a cruise. 

 

True, but when some cruise companies are being less than straightforward about the extent of onboard transmission it could be argued that individual decisions are being made on somewhat doubtful evidence. The profit motive is frequently stronger than the desire for transparency.

[Cathygh]

Having caught covid in May on a cruise, the 2 things that would have decreased our chances of getting it are compulsory mask wearing and social distancing. It was ur 5th cruise since the restart, the first where the 2 things aforementioned had been removed. I would rather do that than spend another week or even a day in isolation. 

[molecrochip]

I've not read the whole thread but would say this. Carnival Corp has said that they have now relaxed their rules equal to those of land based holidays...

 

On that basis, (unless you are mandated to) don't test, don't suspect, don't disclose. Just go on holiday. If you get to the point on holiday that you feel you need assistance then ask they will ask to test you and the result will come as a "surprise".

 

By all means, wear a mask if you're concerned about transmitting the virus. I can virtually guarantee that you won't be the only one hiding the virus.

 

I know my stance on this will come as a surprise but its got too confusing and without mandatory testing, it will never be a level playing field between those who are honest and those who are not. We therefore have to get on with life. My stance also comes from knowing that the more serious cases of Covid is now manageable onboard until the next port of call where hospitalisation can occur if necessary.

[dgs1956]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:30 AM, wowzz said:

Just looking at my Staysure policy.

If I want to make a Covid claim, I have to provide a copy of the positive test result, supplied by registered medical practitioner.

Not going to be easy.

And, how would that work on board ? I assume that P&O medical staff are registered, and that they would supply a certified copy of my positive test result, so that I could make any relevant claim.

I hope so as I think we have the same policy.

[Jill85]

Nurses and Drs. onboard are medical professionals.

[happy v]

17 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I've not read the whole thread but would say this. Carnival Corp has said that they have now relaxed their rules equal to those of land based holidays...

 

On that basis, (unless you are mandated to) don't test, don't suspect, don't disclose. Just go on holiday. If you get to the point on holiday that you feel you need assistance then ask they will ask to test you and the result will come as a "surprise".

 

By all means, wear a mask if you're concerned about transmitting the virus. I can virtually guarantee that you won't be the only one hiding the virus.

 

I know my stance on this will come as a surprise but its got too confusing and without mandatory testing, it will never be a level playing field between those who are honest and those who are not. We therefore have to get on with life. My stance also comes from knowing that the more serious cases of Covid is now manageable onboard until the next port of call where hospitalisation can occur if necessary.

This is exactly how I took this. I only decided to go when they stopped the testing. Far to much hassle two days before you travel.

This is here forever now and life has to return.

 

[Harry Peterson]

23 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I've not read the whole thread but would say this. Carnival Corp has said that they have now relaxed their rules equal to those of land based holidays...

 

On that basis, (unless you are mandated to) don't test, don't suspect, don't disclose. Just go on holiday. If you get to the point on holiday that you feel you need assistance then ask they will ask to test you and the result will come as a "surprise".

 

By all means, wear a mask if you're concerned about transmitting the virus. I can virtually guarantee that you won't be the only one hiding the virus.

 

I know my stance on this will come as a surprise but its got too confusing and without mandatory testing, it will never be a level playing field between those who are honest and those who are not. We therefore have to get on with life. My stance also comes from knowing that the more serious cases of Covid is now manageable onboard until the next port of call where hospitalisation can occur if necessary.

Fair enough, but if that’s the official Carnival/P&O line it would be better communicated as a clear warning to all those in the following groups not to travel with Carnival cruise lines:

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/who-is-at-high-risk-from-coronavirus/

 

I suspect that a very large percentage of P&O customers are within one or more of those warning groups, but I suspect they are unaware of the substantial risks involved. As someone with a compromised immune system (there are half a million in the UK, and their families are similarly affected because of the transmission risk) I know that I’m in one of those high risk groups, but unless there are some clear warnings from P&O it requires a lot of research for some people to find out. Many people have no idea that the vaccines they’ve been given have little or no effect.

 

I had my 6th vaccine dose today but so far have managed to get very little protection. And there’s no way of finding that out within the NHS. It requires an expensive private test.

Not in any way moaning or whingeing about the situation, but information is everything, and if it’s being withheld people are being put at risk. Several cruise ships have recently claimed to be Covid-free. They have been nothing of the sort.

 

[Megabear2]

56 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I've not read the whole thread but would say this. Carnival Corp has said that they have now relaxed their rules equal to those of land based holidays...

 

On that basis, (unless you are mandated to) don't test, don't suspect, don't disclose. Just go on holiday. If you get to the point on holiday that you feel you need assistance then ask they will ask to test you and the result will come as a "surprise".

 

By all means, wear a mask if you're concerned about transmitting the virus. I can virtually guarantee that you won't be the only one hiding the virus.

 

I know my stance on this will come as a surprise but its got too confusing and without mandatory testing, it will never be a level playing field between those who are honest and those who are not. We therefore have to get on with life. My stance also comes from knowing that the more serious cases of Covid is now manageable onboard until the next port of call where hospitalisation can occur if necessary.

All very good, but what about those of us who are mandated to test before sailing and also anyone dumped ashore - there's a couple reporting on another thread they've been in quarantine 8 days on Azura and 9 days in Malta.

 

Frankly its appalling that P&O are unofficially advocating lying and possibly risking some unsuspecting person's life, never mind my peace of mind as an honest person.

 

I'm very happy to sail as you suggest, what I'm not happy with is my potential financial loss if the worst occurs and I certainly don't want another fight with an insurance company as I'm learning the hard way they are totally recalcitrant and difficult to deal with.  Currently my family are £19,000 down on an insurance technicality and now we face this as well.

 

If we are being advised to ignore everything why can't P&O scrap quarantine and more importantly the testing on longer voyages and Caribbean fly cruises along with a health questionnaire so ridiculous not one sensible person would answer yes to a question?

[Cathygh]

6 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If we are being advised to ignore everything why can't P&O scrap quarantine and more importantly the testing on longer voyages and Caribbean fly cruises along with a health questionnaire so ridiculous not one sensible person would answer yes to a question?

Totally agree. What is the point of quarantine now? (Been there done that!) If we are meant as Molecrochip says, to get one with it, when will P&O resume nightly turn downs, have a full entertainment program, kids clubs and night nurseries fully open (I think they are not fully open but happy to be corrected) and stop their staff quarantining when they get covid (and yes I know they are having recruitment issues but it's not the only reason speciality restaurants close) so we can have an cruising experience nearer to pre covid times?

As I have said before, testing masking and other measures slow the spread of covid amongst passengers and STAFF. In my view P&O are failing in their duty of care to their staff by relaxing the rules. But from the quarterly statement released the other day I read that since the relaxation bookings have increased so what do they care about passengers and staff? 

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

There are certain negligence lawyers in various UK cities who could, and probably will at some point, have a field day with this. Not to mention the much more aggressive US firms!

Well it might be unofficial but at least someone has at last indicated why P&O don't give a damn.  As a basically honest person I find it very hard to have it suggested I lie as that's apparently what the company really want me to do.

 

After all these years of supporting P&O and Cunard I'm struggling to think why once my next cruise is finished I'd consider sailing with any of them again. Combining this with my Princess experience I find myself not wanting any more to do with Carnival Corporation and its companies!

Edited October 1, 2022 by Megabear2

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, Cathygh said:

Totally agree. What is the point of quarantine now? (Been there done that!) If we are meant as Molecrochip says, to get one with it, when will P&O resume nightly turn downs, have a full entertainment program, kids clubs and night nurseries fully open (I think they are not fully open but happy to be corrected) and stop their staff quarantining when they get covid (and yes I know they are having recruitment issues but it's not the only reason speciality restaurants close) so we can have an cruising experience nearer to pre covid times?

As I have said before, testing masking and other measures slow the spread of covid amongst passengers and STAFF. In my view P&O are failing in their duty of care to their staff by relaxing the rules. But from the quarterly statement released the other day I read that since the relaxation bookings have increased so what do they care about passengers and staff? 

Yes, bring these things back. 

45 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Well it might be unofficial but at least someone has at last indicated why P&O don't give a damn.  As a basically honest person I find it very hard to have it suggested I lie as that's apparently what the company really want me to do.

 

After all these years of supporting P&O and Cunard I'm struggling to think why once my next cruise is finished I'd consider sailing with any of them again. Combining this with my Princess experience I find myself not wanting any more to do with Carnival Corporation and its companies!

I can not and am not speaking on behalf of the company. This is a personal view as all my posts are.

 

You all know where to find the official ‘rules’ and I direct you to those so you are fully appraised.

 

However, I feel uncomfortable that people are ignoring their Covid symptoms and going on cruises whilst others play honestly and miss out.

 

It’s one thing when it’s easy to be financially compensated so that you’re only emotionally out of pocket, but now that’s not even the case.

 

We now have an uneven playing field and it’s not right.

 

I don’t believe that people are intentionally being misled regarding Covid onboard. I expect that Covid is on the ship in the same way that flu and the common cold and coughs are. However, unless it’s reported, the ship doesn’t know either.

 

Finally, I did not have in mind anyone who may be immunosuppressed etc when making my comments. Naturally, I understand this puts you at my greater risk and my comments should not influence your better judgement on your condition.

[Megabear2]

28 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Yes, bring these things back. 

I can not and am not speaking on behalf of the company. This is a personal view as all my posts are.

 

You all know where to find the official ‘rules’ and I direct you to those so you are fully appraised.

 

However, I feel uncomfortable that people are ignoring their Covid symptoms and going on cruises whilst others play honestly and miss out.

 

It’s one thing when it’s easy to be financially compensated so that you’re only emotionally out of pocket, but now that’s not even the case.

 

We now have an uneven playing field and it’s not right.

 

I don’t believe that people are intentionally being misled regarding Covid onboard. I expect that Covid is on the ship in the same way that flu and the common cold and coughs are. However, unless it’s reported, the ship doesn’t know either.

 

Finally, I did not have in mind anyone who may be immunosuppressed etc when making my comments. Naturally, I understand this puts you at my greater risk and my comments should not influence your better judgement on your condition.

I fully appreciate that it was a personal view and of course don't think you speak for the company.  I imagine it must be extremely hard to actually say your employer's policies are unfair.  It was in no way intended as a criticism of yourself personally, in fact I appreciate someone actually trying to be honest.

 

However the fact remains I too am an honest person and worry that if I did accidentally take covid on board while acting in ignorance some poor soul may become extremely unwell because of my deception.  My own husband is seriously at risk from covid having a myocardial bridge and other serious health problems and the suggestion that for the sake of a few quid on a test P&O are happy to put him at risk leaves me in despair.

 

Reading your unofficial comments combined with Adam Edinburgh's reply on the insurance side I can only draw the conclusion Carnival really don't give a damn and have very short memories of how we their loyal customers have stood by them in desperate times. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Megabear2

[molecrochip]

This honesty scenario would partly be solved if P&O had randomised testing of, say, 5 or 10% of passengers at the terminal. Or even temperature checking.

 

Once those prone to lying know there is a potential trap, it often becomes too stressful to lie and they revert to honest behaviours.

 

But the processes in place at present encourages the dishonest behaviour and that where my issue lies.

[bobstheboy]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

This honesty scenario would partly be solved if P&O had randomised testing of, say, 5 or 10% of passengers at the terminal. Or even temperature checking.

 

Once those prone to lying know there is a potential trap, it often becomes too stressful to lie and they revert to honest behaviours.

 

But the processes in place at present encourages the dishonest behaviour and that where my issue lies.

Randomised testing is a good solution. It would deter many that may be tempted to board with Covid and reassure many that worry people are carrying it onboard.

[Gettingwarmer]

Are P&O acting in any way different to any other cruise company?

[molecrochip]

5 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

Are P&O acting in any way different to any other cruise company?

No. The industry is very much aligned.

[Gettingwarmer]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

No. The industry is very much aligned.

As I thought.