Is this a move towards cruise lines moving away from the model of using travel agencies?

[ontheweb]

Presently NCL has an offer available on American Express (not showing up on all cards) of $350 back when spending $1000. However, it says it has to be done on either their website or by phone. In the past, these type of offers also allowed you to go through a TA to access them (with the charge of course directly to the cruise line.) Since one of the things you must do with a TA and cannot do directly with a cruise line when you book through a TA is make payments, how can you do this when booking through a TA?

[Joebucks]

Technically, AMEX is the "Travel Agency" here. The big credit card companies are really trying to become TAs as they want that commission. It's a great way to grow their business as they have the affluent shoppers in their pocket, and can send them offers directly. 

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Technically, AMEX is the "Travel Agency" here. The big credit card companies are really trying to become TAs as they want that commission. It's a great way to grow their business as they have the affluent shoppers in their pocket, and can send them offers directly. 

I disagree. Amex has their own travel agency, but charging travel on AMEX does not make them your travel agent. I believe the business making the offer, in this case NCL, sets the terms. In the past it always included travel professional.

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Presently NCL has an offer available on American Express (not showing up on all cards) of $350 back when spending $1000. However, it says it has to be done on either their website or by phone. In the past, these type of offers also allowed you to go through a TA to access them (with the charge of course directly to the cruise line.) Since one of the things you must do with a TA and cannot do directly with a cruise line when you book through a TA is make payments, how can you do this when booking through a TA?

Where do you see this offer?

[Joebucks]

37 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I disagree. Amex has their own travel agency, but charging travel on AMEX does not make them your travel agent. I believe the business making the offer, in this case NCL, sets the terms. In the past it always included travel professional.

 

I understand the nuts and bolts of what is "different". The outcome is essentially the same. The goal of this offer is not to give their users $350 for booking an NCL cruise just because. The goal of this offer is to sell cruises, the same as what the TA is. They are obviously going this because it is profitable. I think of this as an automation of the sale of the good, without having to use the labor of a TA. Some people go to a TA not because they need help, but because they want a better offer. This does that.

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Presently NCL has an offer available on American Express (not showing up on all cards) of $350 back when spending $1000. However, it says it has to be done on either their website or by phone. In the past, these type of offers also allowed you to go through a TA to access them (with the charge of course directly to the cruise line.) Since one of the things you must do with a TA and cannot do directly with a cruise line when you book through a TA is make payments, how can you do this when booking through a TA?

Any credit card company can essentially act as a TA consortium, which could have it offering incentives (e.g., $350) directly or via one of its own consortium member TAs.

 

So, from what you describe: If you want to book via a TA not affiliated with your CC company or via the consortium directly, you are SOL on the $350. BTW, at first glance this may seem like a terrific rebate. However, what you’ve neglected to clarify is whether the $350 is for a cruise costing at least $1000 OR per each $1000 of the fare. That can be a significant difference!

 

In any case, as regards your post title: Hell will freeze over before cruise lines stop preferring TAs (and/or their consortia) to do the marketing, booking and handholding (not to mention the associated HR et al. costs) since paying the TA commissions are a bargain for the cruise line (vs the cruiseline maintaining a DIY approach).

 

[Mary229]

They would have to improve their websites immensely before online booking takes hold and they would have to institute the 24 hour change of heart  rule that airlines have.
 

  I am all for it. I booked my business travel online for years; hotels and airlines were simple and easy.  Airlines weren’t originally easy but once they steered away from the round trip model with no deviations it became easy. 

[ldubs]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:43 PM, Mary229 said:

They would have to improve their websites immensely before online booking takes hold and they would have to institute the 24 hour change of heart  rule that airlines have.
 

  I am all for it. I booked my business travel online for years; hotels and airlines were simple and easy.  Airlines weren’t originally easy but once they steered away from the round trip model with no deviations it became easy. 

 

Heck yeah. It should all be online.   I don't want to pick up a phone.  

[ontheweb]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:57 AM, LHT28 said:

Where do you see this offer?

If you have an AMEX card and have set up an online account, there should be offers, in fact 100. You do not have to go through the entire 100 as they show categories, and you can click on travel.

 

Note, not everyone gets the offer.

[ontheweb]

On 10/9/2022 at 1:26 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Any credit card company can essentially act as a TA consortium, which could have it offering incentives (e.g., $350) directly or via one of its own consortium member TAs.

 

So, from what you describe: If you want to book via a TA not affiliated with your CC company or via the consortium directly, you are SOL on the $350. BTW, at first glance this may seem like a terrific rebate. However, what you’ve neglected to clarify is whether the $350 is for a cruise costing at least $1000 OR per each $1000 of the fare. That can be a significant difference!

 

In any case, as regards your post title: Hell will freeze over before cruise lines stop preferring TAs (and/or their consortia) to do the marketing, booking and handholding (not to mention the associated HR et al. costs) since paying the TA commissions are a bargain for the cruise line (vs the cruiseline maintaining a DIY approach).

 

It is $350 for spending $1000, not for each $1000.

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

It is $350 for spending $1000, not for each $1000.

So not that good a deal when doing  premium/luxury (and/or relatively long) cruises.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Flatbush Flyer

[LHT28]

17 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If you have an AMEX card and have set up an online account, there should be offers, in fact 100. You do not have to go through the entire 100 as they show categories, and you can click on travel.

 

Note, not everyone gets the offer.

So it is on AMEX  not NCL site  as mentioned above

 

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, LHT28 said:

So it is on AMEX  not NCL site  as mentioned above

 

Yes, NCL offers this through AMEX.

[ontheweb]

On 10/9/2022 at 1:26 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Any credit card company can essentially act as a TA consortium, which could have it offering incentives (e.g., $350) directly or via one of its own consortium member TAs.

 

So, from what you describe: If you want to book via a TA not affiliated with your CC company or via the consortium directly, you are SOL on the $350. BTW, at first glance this may seem like a terrific rebate. However, what you’ve neglected to clarify is whether the $350 is for a cruise costing at least $1000 OR per each $1000 of the fare. That can be a significant difference!

 

In any case, as regards your post title: Hell will freeze over before cruise lines stop preferring TAs (and/or their consortia) to do the marketing, booking and handholding (not to mention the associated HR et al. costs) since paying the TA commissions are a bargain for the cruise line (vs the cruiseline maintaining a DIY approach).

 

AMEX does have a travel agency, but this offer has nothing to do with that fact. I have booked precious similar AMEX offers for ships owned by the Carnival corporation and still used the TA we have worked with for a long time. I have used AMEX offers for pet food, gasoline, shopping with local merchants on Black Friday, and none of them obviously had anything travel agency consortium related.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

AMEX does have a travel agency, but this offer has nothing to do with that fact. I have booked precious similar AMEX offers for ships owned by the Carnival corporation and still used the TA we have worked with for a long time. I have used AMEX offers for pet food, gasoline, shopping with local merchants on Black Friday, and none of them obviously had anything travel agency consortium related.

You’re missing the point.

Oceania has a relationship not only with TAs but also with their consortiums, parent companies, etc. It’s one of the reasons why you’ll sometimes see items on your O invoice “amenities” like “OCAPP” (which is pass through O incentive funds provided to the TA or a TA consortium to “sweeten the deal” on specific itineraries).

While what was described is not OCAPP, it appears to be a somewhat similar incentive promotion from AMEX though it appears to require that you make the booking directly through an AMEX account portal (which may/may not allow your personal TA’s involvement[?])

 

In any case, now that we know the $350 is a set amount per cruise, the fact remains that it is not much incentive when compared to what a TA might be able to provide (e.g., commission sharing) on a premium/luxury (or “extended journey”) “five figure” booking. 

[Twickenham]

American Express regularly has this type of deal that you can register for in your online account - spend X amount with a merchant and get Y credit on your card. In order for this to work the merchant's name has to appear under the charge on the card, thus the need to book directly with NCL.

 

This is an AMEX-driven promotion, not a NCL one. 

[Joebucks]

4 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

In any case, now that we know the $350 is a set amount per cruise, the fact remains that it is not much incentive when compared to what a TA might be able to provide (e.g., commission sharing) on a premium/luxury (or “extended journey”) “five figure” booking. 

 

This is for NCL, so maybe for "luxury" it could be used for Haven. Otherwise, that would be such a minuscule market. If you're closer to the $1000 mark for your cruise, I'd disagree that a TA is going to get you more. If it was a "five figure" booking, I agree, you'd likely be looking at more. I received a $150 AMEX offer off of $500 or more on Carnival. Judging from past TA interaction for some of these affordable cruises, the $150 was far and away higher than what they would have given me.

 

There are so many data points marketing looks at these days. An automated offer such as this is not likely looking into the big spenders. AMEX has their own cruise program to target those clients and provide a more personalized service. This is a way to hit the mass market. 

 

[BruceMuzz]

The VERY LAST thing that cruise lines want to do is alienate travel agents. There are currently 10’s of thousands of travel agents in the USA alone. Every one of them desperately wants to sell you a cruise in order to get that easy 5%-10% commission from the cruise line.

The cruise lines desperately want them to do just that. If they did not have all those “volunteer” employees, the cruise lines would be forced to hire thousands more agents and vastly enlarge their offices to accommodate all those employees. The salaries, benefits, taxes, and operating costs would add up to millions of dollars in overhead. The cruise lines just don’t want to go there.

And you don’t want it either. All those costs would be passed on to the passengers in the form of higher fares.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, BruceMuzz said:

……Every one of them desperately wants to sell you a cruise in order to get that easy 5%-10% commission from the cruise line..

You may want to do a bit of research regarding the percentage range of commissions across cruise industry.

[BruceMuzz]

9 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You may want to do a bit of research regarding the percentage range of commissions across cruise industry.

No need. I have worked on the cruise ship end of cruising for 40+ years. Then I have been working on the agency side for the past 20 years. I know the numbers very well.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

No need. I have worked on the cruise ship end of cruising for 40+ years. Then I have been working on the agency side for the past 20 years. I know the numbers very well.

Not questioning your experience.

However, I’m staring at one of several past invoices where I also received the TA’s more complete copy (including commissionable fare amount and the actual commission rate and amount). 

With the understanding that this particular cruise line pays commissions on a sliding scale, the percent of commissionable fare is closer to +\-15%. And that is why this TA and others we have used (after significant research) are able to consistently provide the added perk of refundable SBC or a cash rebate at a rate ranging from 5-10% of the commissionable fare. (Note to others reading this: This amount is above and beyond any/all perks provided by the cruise line - directly or as pass through incentive funds from the cruise line or a TA consortium)

 

Of course, how much of the TA commission ends up in the pocket of the actual Agent handling your booking is another story. And, other lines may pay far less commission - so much so that some TA’s will not handle those booking requests.

[thinfool]

This thread is clearly a discussion of the pros and cons of AMEX as a travel agent.  It is slightly interesting but clearly promotes the AMEX offer with NCL.  

CC rules do not allow 'named' travel agents.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, thinfool said:

This thread is clearly a discussion of the pros and cons of AMEX as a travel agent.  It is slightly interesting but clearly promotes the AMEX offer with NCL.  

CC rules do not allow 'named' travel agents.

The AMEX offer has nothing to do with AMEX as a travel agency. They have lots of offers (you will see 100) and very few of them are travel. And even if you click on travel to only see those offers, you will see things like Sunoco gas, hardly something a travel agency handles.

[BruceMuzz]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not questioning your experience.

However, I’m staring at one of several past invoices where I also received the TA’s more complete copy (including commissionable fare amount and the actual commission rate and amount). 

With the understanding that this particular cruise line pays commissions on a sliding scale, the percent of commissionable fare is closer to +\-15%. And that is why this TA and others we have used (after significant research) are able to consistently provide the added perk of refundable SBC or a cash rebate at a rate ranging from 5-10% of the commissionable fare. (Note to others reading this: This amount is above and beyond any/all perks provided by the cruise line - directly or as pass through incentive funds from the cruise line or a TA consortium)

 

Of course, how much of the TA commission ends up in the pocket of the actual Agent handling your booking is another story. And, other lines may pay far less commission - so much so that some TA’s will not handle those booking requests.

 

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not questioning your experience.

However, I’m staring at one of several past invoices where I also received the TA’s more complete copy (including commissionable fare amount and the actual commission rate and amount). 

With the understanding that this particular cruise line pays commissions on a sliding scale, the percent of commissionable fare is closer to +\-15%. And that is why this TA and others we have used (after significant research) are able to consistently provide the added perk of refundable SBC or a cash rebate at a rate ranging from 5-10% of the commissionable fare. (Note to others reading this: This amount is above and beyond any/all perks provided by the cruise line - directly or as pass through incentive funds from the cruise line or a TA consortium)

 

Of course, how much of the TA commission ends up in the pocket of the actual Agent handling your booking is another story. And, other lines may pay far less commission - so much so that some TA’s will not handle those booking requests.

It’s all about the sampling numbers that can give you a comprehensive view of the situation. You are in one country, looking at one travel agent, and a few cruise lines. I am looking at multiple countries, hundreds of travel agents, and dozens of cruise lines. Actual commissions can range from 3% to 20%.

[Flatbush Flyer]

47 minutes ago, BruceMuzz said:

 

It’s all about the sampling numbers that can give you a comprehensive view of the situation. You are in one country, looking at one travel agent, and a few cruise lines. I am looking at multiple countries, hundreds of travel agents, and dozens of cruise lines. Actual commissions can range from 3% to 20%.

Yes- I realize that since I know that the several TAs on my “short list” will not do bookings on some specific cruise lines because it would not make it worthwhile for the TA.