Gratuities/Daily Service Charges increasing!!

[KeithJenner]

4 hours ago, travelgalnow said:

This may not be the thread to start this discussion but wouldn't it be wonderful if all the cruises just stated the full price of the cruise that included the "service charge."  It really is part of their wages.

People often say this and I always point out that they did exactly this in Europe a few years ago.

 

It didn’t last long.

[Captain-John]

  

1 hour ago, KeithJenner said:

 

It didn’t last long.

 

Why is that? Higher headline rate puts passengers off? If the case, DSC really is smoke and mirrors to disguise the final total price (yes, all lines do it). I think MSC includes gratuities for UK bookings still?

 

15 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

This increase is less than the cost of four drinks over the seven day period, less than the cost of one shore excursion, or about 1% the cost of a $5000 cruise. 

 

If we're talking percentages, you've specified the % increase but not the % DSC that makes up the total of the cruise fare. Maybe people are annoyed at the DSC full stop, not just this latest increase?

 

I don't think anyone is paying $5k for a 7 night cruise, so let's say 12 nights instead = $480 DSC or 9.6% of the total cruise fare. Let's not complicate it with Haven or more passengers etc.

 

Let's go a step further. Take an average 7 night cruise. New (total) DSC is $280 for 2x passengers per crusie. Let's say each cruise is c. $3k total cost.

 

Multiply by 10 cruises (as this is CC, quite reasonable to achieve) = $2880 just in DSC. Remove the DSC on each of your 10 previous cruises and your 11th is free. That's capitalism!

 

 

 

[New2cruise2022]

2 hours ago, Captain-John said:

Maybe people are annoyed at the DSC full stop, not just this latest increase?

I think this is obvious, intuitive, AND overlooked. 
 

The DSC is a bungled product. It isn’t packaged, bundled, or labeled well. While an informed traveler knows it will be part of the cruise, it is more apparent on some bookings than others. NCL makes little fanfare about the DSC at booking. Carnival makes it a click option at the time of booking. There is a little check box and the action title. ☑️ Include Gratuities. If you click it, you see the total price. Unclick and you have a lower price. It feels very contemplative of what a consumer can expect to pay. 
 

I know how to navigate NCL. I know how to find the prepay service charges, but it isn’t in your face. Is it deceptive? I don’t know if I’m ready to characterize it as such. But I do believe it is latent and intended to be as such. Because it is after the fact — even after taxes and fees — it feels like it is extra and non-essential. With all the talk of inflation on products, it feels unjustifiable by many because the increase isn’t part of the main offering.

 

We all pay more for eggs and milk today than we did a year ago and we don’t put up too much of a fight about it, but that is because we see the increase on the shelves and at checkout. But, if you got home and received an email that said you would be charged 5 cents for every egg that you cracked and used, people might not enjoy even a small 60 cents per dozen charge. We can all agree that would be very bad presentation and packaging of the egg product. 

[DaCruiseBug]

17 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's still an almost insignifcant increase in the cost of the cruise.  $50 on a seven day $5000 cruise is about 1%.  

 

But cruise fares have gone up by well over the cost of inflation.

 

I get it that no matter what anyone says you're just going to keep defending NCL but most people can see right thru your argument.

[RocketMan275]

14 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Not going to debate this topic as I don't know enough about it.  But I read quite a bit and there are definitely very strong arguments supporting that claim.  If you really are surprised to hear of that claim, which is what I infer from your comment, you might want to look into a bit yourself, if you care.

I'm not at all to see that argument. It's been a staple of anti-capitalism  for many, many years.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, Captain-John said:

  

 

Why is that? Higher headline rate puts passengers off? If the case, DSC really is smoke and mirrors to disguise the final total price (yes, all lines do it). I think MSC includes gratuities for UK bookings still?

 

 

If we're talking percentages, you've specified the % increase but not the % DSC that makes up the total of the cruise fare. Maybe people are annoyed at the DSC full stop, not just this latest increase?

 

I don't think anyone is paying $5k for a 7 night cruise, so let's say 12 nights instead = $480 DSC or 9.6% of the total cruise fare. Let's not complicate it with Haven or more passengers etc.

 

Let's go a step further. Take an average 7 night cruise. New (total) DSC is $280 for 2x passengers per crusie. Let's say each cruise is c. $3k total cost.

 

Multiply by 10 cruises (as this is CC, quite reasonable to achieve) = $2880 just in DSC. Remove the DSC on each of your 10 previous cruises and your 11th is free. That's capitalism!

Do some research.  It's very easy to find cruise fares for two for seven days, not in the Haven, of $5000.  

Using your logic, don't buy the unlimited drinks package and you'll save far more than eliminating the DSC ($109 PPPD).  Your liver will thank you and so will the crew.

[RocketMan275]

18 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

But cruise fares have gone up by well over the cost of inflation.

 

I get it that no matter what anyone says you're just going to keep defending NCL but most people can see right thru your argument.

Nevermind. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by RocketMan275

[DaCruiseBug]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Meanwhile, you keep attacking NCL for unknown reasons.  

Unknown? I thought the reasons are obvious. No?

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, DaCruiseBug said:

Unknown? I thought the reasons are obvious. No?

No, they aren't obvious. 

There is no reason to continue this.

Edited December 10, 2022 by RocketMan275

[DaCruiseBug]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, they aren't obvious. 

There is no reason to continue this.

 

You don't think that raising daily service charges by almost 50% since 2017 is worth mentioning? How much has inflation gone up since then? My guess is not even 1/2 of that.

 

You may not think it's worth discussing it, but since this is a discussion forum and we're not in North Korea we'll keep talking about what we want to talk about.

 

If you don't like it feel free to skip over the thread. Nobody is forcing you to read it.

[DaCruiseBug]

9 hours ago, travelgalnow said:

This may not be the thread to start this discussion but wouldn't it be wonderful if all the cruises just stated the full price of the cruise that included the "service charge."  It really is part of their wages.

 

Celebrity does this if you select one of their all-inclusive fares. Obviously they're higher than the barebones fares but include a drink package, wi-fi, and daily service charges. They also don't charge you a service charge on the drink package.

[Captain-John]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Do some research.  It's very easy to find cruise fares for two for seven days, not in the Haven, of $5000.  

Yes, that's way over the top for an NCL cruise in a balcony and folks need to find a better deal/TA if that's what they are paying.

[graphicguy]

Just did a quick faux booking on a random date in April 23.  New(er) ship (Encore), in typical Caribbean itinerary.  7 nites.

 

Sail Away (no perks) in a Balcony was about $1,400 and change.  Port fees, taxes, trash disposal fees, etc was about 17%.

 

FAS adds about $300 to the cost.  Fees, taxes etc stays the same but their percentage of total cost drops to 14%

 

But, to me $300 for a week’s worth of unlimited drinks, a couple of Specialty Dinners (I’d get another 2 because of Latitudes for a total of 4), some internet and some excursion credits is a good deal.

 

Percentages for taxes is about in line.  While I’ve certainly spent less per day for a cruise, $200-$240/nite all in is certainly in line with what you’d spend on a nice land based hotel (without drinks or food).  And, the fees and taxes are about what they’d be vs a land based hotel, too.

 

This topic has churned ad infinitum.  I have my own issues with NCL….mostly around customer service.  But, taxes and fees fall in line with luxury hotels/resorts.  

 

I don’t care what the crew make.  The crew I’ve met were all on multiple contracts and would come back for a new one if offered.  If they’re happy, I’m happy.

 

I look at total out of pocket.  How that total is divided up really doesn’t matter to me.  They can slice and dice my dollar any way they want.  It doesn’t matter to me.  If they aren’t paying well enough, crew will leave.  Simple as that.  I don’t believe that’s the case, though.

 

Last month, I was on a New England Cruise on Breakaway.  Excursions were great.  Ship was top notch.  Drinks were good, food was even better, entertainment was great.   Enjoyed myself immensely (hanging with other CCers as a resulting in having a good time).

 

Without using some FCC and throwing OBC into the mix, the total out of pocket, tips, fees, taxes, DSC….EVERYTHING, I was less than $100/nite.  That’s the cost of a hotel in a not so nice part of town in a fair Motel 6 type hotel, and no food, drink or entertainment.  To me, that’s a good deal.  Everything else discussed here is superfluous.

 

 

[KeithJenner]

5 hours ago, Captain-John said:

  

 

Why is that? Higher headline rate puts passengers off? If the case, DSC really is smoke and mirrors to disguise the final total price (yes, all lines do it). I think MSC includes gratuities for UK bookings still?

I don't know why. For some reason they didn't contact me to let me know. 🙂

 

Se can all speculate though. Here's my guesses:

 

1) Exactly what you say. To be clear, I am not saying that the DSC isn't smokes and mirrors.

 

2) Never ask a supplier of anything to change the way that they charge you. It takes a quite exceptional company to resist the temptation to use that to also increase their prices, and NCL are certainly not that company. Yes, prices went up and by more than the DSC (and other things included)

 

3) Despite many people (and this applies more to the UK and Europe than the US) saying that the DSC should be included, they haven't really thought it through. Lots of these people remove the DSC anyway, and they found that the prices had increased and they could no longer opt out of some of it.

 

Basically, my point is that whilst it is easy for people to say that the DSC should be rolled up into the fare, it really isn't that easy in practice. It won't just be a case of the prices increasing by the DSC amount and then we all live happily ever after. Many peoples opinions are really just self serving excuses for why they think that they should pay less (or on NCL's side to charge more). Rolling the DSC into the fare wouldn't solve many of the issues, and then in a few years time when NCL announce that they are going to start another charge to replace it (quietly ignoring the fact that it is already included in the fare) we would all be paying more. I haven't studied the numbers in detail, but I believe that is what happened in Europe at least to an extent.

 

I have no side in this argument. I know that in the end we just pay what the cruise line can get away with charging (or decide not to cruise with them). How it is all labelled is irrelevant to me. I don't believe that fiddling with it will help.

Edited December 10, 2022 by KeithJenner

[Captain-John]

2 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I don't know why. For some reason they didn't contact me to let me know. 🙂

 

Yes sorry that was a bit more blunt than I intended. 🙂

 

Yes agree with the rest of your thoughts. It's interesting that guests still have a degree of control over whether to pay it or not (resorts, hotels etc. - it would be mandatory with no opt-out). I have my cynical reasons as to why there is an opt-out - I don't think it's only so guests can adjust for poor service. Perhaps it preserves the tax status? Who knows, I certainly don't, but I don't take everything presented to me at face value either.

[KeithJenner]

50 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

Yes, that's way over the top for an NCL cruise in a balcony and folks need to find a better deal/TA if that's what they are paying.

Yeah.

 

I have three cruises booked (two 10 day and an 8 day). In aft balcony, mini suite and mini suite with large balcony. The only one close to that price is 10 days on the Viva (mini suite) which is just over $5k.

 

I did have a couple of small discounts and an upgrade, but even taking them into account only the Viva works out as more than $5k

 

Edit - Actually I'm not sure this is relevant. I don't think that anyone actually said they cost that much. Looks like someone misunderstood your original statement that nobody pays that.

Edited December 10, 2022 by KeithJenner

[KeithJenner]

4 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

 

Yes sorry that was a bit more blunt than I intended. 🙂

 

Yes agree with the rest of your thoughts. It's interesting that guests still have a degree of control over whether to pay it or not (resorts, hotels etc. - it would be mandatory with no opt-out). I have my cynical reasons as to why there is an opt-out - I don't think it's only so guests can adjust for poor service. Perhaps it preserves the tax status? Who knows, I certainly don't, but I don't take everything presented to me at face value either.

You didn't come across as blunt. I was just having a joke with you. 🙂

 

I have always assumed that the ease of removing the DSC for European customers, even though it isn't particularly advertised, is to keep on the right side of our consumer laws. I could be wrong though.

 

The fact that US customers can remove it is probably a bit more of a question.

[ChiefMateJRK]

10 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

Since you got an "A" in econ 101 it appears your econ 101 didn't cover SEC regulations.  As you assert, it is possible the NCLH corporate officers could be lying to investors, but that would be a grave error.  When FDR discloses to investors that the company will deviate from previous norms and not price to fill, that's material.  A company that discloses information to investors must do so truthfully and accurately.  A company cannot make partial or misleading disclosures. Disclosures containing material misstatements or omissions “reasonably calculated to influence investors” can expose NCLH to Rule 10b-5 liability.  

Well, that was a long time ago!!  That said "price to fill" vs. "market to fill" are very vague references to overall strategies, and they will never be mutually exclusive.  No business can just charge whatever they want and hit sales targets strictly with marketing.  Pricing will always be part of the equation.  Did FDR really publicly state that he wouldn't maximize profits if it meant having to adjust some prices?  Isn't pricing strategy part of marketing?

 

And, by the way, I don't believe that the finer points of SEC regulations are typically part of a 3 hour introductory economics class.  It's more the points about supply and demand and why a business exists (which was my initial reference to econ 101 before you got all technical)

[jmele999]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Just did a quick faux booking on a random date in April 23.  New(er) ship (Encore), in typical Caribbean itinerary.  7 nites.

 

Sail Away (no perks) in a Balcony was about $1,400 and change.  Port fees, taxes, trash disposal fees, etc was about 17%.

 

FAS adds about $300 to the cost.  Fees, taxes etc stays the same but their percentage of total cost drops to 14%

 

But, to me $300 for a week’s worth of unlimited drinks, a couple of Specialty Dinners (I’d get another 2 because of Latitudes for a total of 4), some internet and some excursion credits is a good deal.

 

Percentages for taxes is about in line.  While I’ve certainly spent less per day for a cruise, $200-$240/nite all in is certainly in line with what you’d spend on a nice land based hotel (without drinks or food).  And, the fees and taxes are about what they’d be vs a land based hotel, too.

 

This topic has churned ad infinitum.  I have my own issues with NCL….mostly around customer service.  But, taxes and fees fall in line with luxury hotels/resorts.  

 

I don’t care what the crew make.  The crew I’ve met were all on multiple contracts and would come back for a new one if offered.  If they’re happy, I’m happy.

 

I look at total out of pocket.  How that total is divided up really doesn’t matter to me.  They can slice and dice my dollar any way they want.  It doesn’t matter to me.  If they aren’t paying well enough, crew will leave.  Simple as that.  I don’t believe that’s the case, though.

 

Last month, I was on a New England Cruise on Breakaway.  Excursions were great.  Ship was top notch.  Drinks were good, food was even better, entertainment was great.   Enjoyed myself immensely (hanging with other CCers as a resulting in having a good time).

 

Without using some FCC and throwing OBC into the mix, the total out of pocket, tips, fees, taxes, DSC….EVERYTHING, I was less than $100/nite.  That’s the cost of a hotel in a not so nice part of town in a fair Motel 6 type hotel, and no food, drink or entertainment.  To me, that’s a good deal.  Everything else discussed here is superfluous.

 

 

 

Quick question.  How do you get 2 specialty dinners on a 7-day cruise? I thought that NCL was only offering one dinner on 7-days cruises.

[ColeThornton]

13 minutes ago, jmele999 said:

Quick question.  How do you get 2 specialty dinners on a 7-day cruise? I thought that NCL was only offering one dinner on 7-days cruises.

 

 

Depends on what type of cabin you have.

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions/promotions

[jmele999]

48 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Depends on what type of cabin you have.

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/terms-and-conditions/promotions

Thanks. I learned something new today. 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, jmele999 said:

Quick question.  How do you get 2 specialty dinners on a 7-day cruise? I thought that NCL was only offering one dinner on 7-days cruises.

He said he gets two more for Latitude.

[graphicguy]

32 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

He said he gets two more for Latitude.

2 Specialties for FAS (as Cole points out, depending on cabin).  I got 

an additional 2 SDs for my Latitudes status (plus, got an additional SD at LeBistro for using my AMEX Plat to pay for the cruise).  That’s 5 total SDs on my 7 nite cruise.

[ChiefMateJRK]

9 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

That’s 5 total SDs on my 7 nite cruise.

So YOU'RE the guy preventing the rest of us from getting reservations!! (jk)

[KeithJenner]

15 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

So YOU'RE the guy preventing the rest of us from getting reservations!! (jk)

There will be quite a few people who are platinum, have free at sea and have either upgraded their dining package or taken free at sea plus, giving them 6 (or 5 in some cabins). If they booked using the Amex deal then they are sorted for the week.

Edited December 10, 2022 by KeithJenner