NCL Returns to Tradition Muster Drill, Will Royal Follow?

[vision14k]

Norwegian Cruise Line has announced the end of the virtual or e-muster drill and will immediately return to the traditional safety briefing, will Royal Caribbean follow??  I sure hope not!  Fresh off Freedom and the e-muster was great!

[George C]

I am against anything that ncl does 😁😁

[sandebeach]

I was reading about NCL returning to the traditional safety briefing. I hope Royal does not follow. 

[chengkp75]

It really doesn't come down to a decision by RCI, if the IMO doesn't amend SOLAS to give the e-muster a permanent approval 

[nelblu]

1 hour ago, sandebeach said:

I was reading about NCL returning to the traditional safety briefing. I hope Royal does not follow. 

Traditional, wearing your life jacket to your station.😄

[vacationlover_mn]

Ugh, I hope not!!!

[Starry Eyes]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

It really doesn't come down to a decision by RCI, if the IMO doesn't amend SOLAS to give the e-muster a permanent approval 

I think Disney already returned to regular muster.  They said some guests were noncompliant with digital muster.
 

Do you know when the International Maritime Organization might make that decision?

Edited January 23, 2023 by Starry Eyes

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I think Disney already returned to regular muster.  They said some guests were noncompliant with digital muster.
 

Do you know when the International Maritime Organization might make that decision?

The IMO moves very slowly, and needs to have quite a lot of data to make a decision.  Two years of e-muster evaluations, even on all cruise ships, is not that large a data pool, compared to the decades of data from the old style drill.  Frankly, I don't believe that the IMO will approve the e-muster, as it does not provide adequate, realistic training for passengers or crew.  I dread having a disaster on a ship where the e-muster has been in use.

 

Since the crew still needs to perform a passenger muster drill weekly, adding this to the normal crew fire and boat drill is adding more time away from normal duties for more crew than under the old drill, and also, crew are wasted waiting at the muster station for hours waiting for passengers to check in, taking them from their normal duties, so this is also a cost savings for the cruise line.

 

I know I'm in the unpopular minority, but I see this as a win for passenger safety.

[Starry Eyes]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The IMO moves very slowly, and needs to have quite a lot of data to make a decision.  Two years of e-muster evaluations, even on all cruise ships, is not that large a data pool, compared to the decades of data from the old style drill.  Frankly, I don't believe that the IMO will approve the e-muster, as it does not provide adequate, realistic training for passengers or crew.  I dread having a disaster on a ship where the e-muster has been in use.

 

Since the crew still needs to perform a passenger muster drill weekly, adding this to the normal crew fire and boat drill is adding more time away from normal duties for more crew than under the old drill, and also, crew are wasted waiting at the muster station for hours waiting for passengers to check in, taking them from their normal duties, so this is also a cost savings for the cruise line.

 

I know I'm in the unpopular minority, but I see this as a win for passenger safety.

I dread having a disaster on a cruise ship regardless of the type of muster drill.   Despite the efforts of crew members during the traditional muster drill some passengers were inattentive, talkative and/or drunk.  They created a poor atmosphere for others, including the newbies who most need the drill.  Even before the pandemic I wondered how poorly those fools would behave in an actual emergency.  I hope I never find out.  It may depend upon the passenger mix on a given voyage, the type of emergency and the leadership/crew management of the situation more than the type of drill.

 

I seem to meet a lot of entertainment staff at muster stations (traditional and digital check in).  Singers, dancers, skaters, etc often do well in those roles with stage presence and communication skills, plus their turn around day duties differ from crew.  As a cost trade off, ships do not have to shut down all services at potentially profitable time just before sailaway.

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I seem to meet a lot of entertainment staff at muster stations (traditional and digital check in).  Singers, dancers, skaters, etc often do well in those roles with stage presence and communication skills, plus their turn around day duties differ from crew.

While these may predominate at the muster stations, for a ship with 1000 crew, the passenger muster drill requires about 500 of those crew to participate.  These are just the crew needed to herd the passengers to their stations, it does not include the fire or emergency teams, the teams that prep the boats for launching, and so on.  There is much more going on than just the people at the stations.  The entire ship is searched, the cabins marked as cleared and empty, and all passageways and public spaces cleared in a systematic manner, sweeping down to the muster stations.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

It may depend upon the passenger mix on a given voyage, the type of emergency and the leadership/crew management of the situation more than the type of drill.

Having experienced actual shipboard emergencies, you would be surprised how much different the crew's attitude is towards passengers.  The "service industry" attitude of "don't piss off the pax" changes to "stop wasting my time with your whining, I'm here working to save your butt".

[nelblu]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Having experienced actual shipboard emergencies, you would be surprised how much different the crew's attitude is towards passengers.  The "service industry" attitude of "don't piss off the pax" changes to "stop wasting my time with your whining, I'm here working to save your butt".

If they are going to open the film with either the washy-washy song or the spy theme, it becomes comical and Paxs lose the attentiveness required.

[Starry Eyes]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While these may predominate at the muster stations, for a ship with 1000 crew, the passenger muster drill requires about 500 of those crew to participate.  These are just the crew needed to herd the passengers to their stations, it does not include the fire or emergency teams, the teams that prep the boats for launching, and so on.  There is much more going on than just the people at the stations.  The entire ship is searched, the cabins marked as cleared and empty, and all passageways and public spaces cleared in a systematic manner, sweeping down to the muster stations.

I did realize many crew were involved in a variety of roles.  Both pre and post shut down I have seen them drilling without passenger involvement, including the jobs you mentioned…though I wouldn’t know when  they were doing the entire ship and when they were doing limited areas.

[Starry Eyes]

19 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Having experienced actual shipboard emergencies, you would be surprised how much different the crew's attitude is towards passengers.  The "service industry" attitude of "don't piss off the pax" changes to "stop wasting my time with your whining, I'm here working to save your butt".

Good.  That may make an enormous difference along  with solid decision making from the bridge and front line teams.

[Toddcan]

Don't forget to put that whistle in your mouth when wearing the lifejacket at muster. 

[Starry Eyes]

15 minutes ago, nelblu said:

If they are going to open the film with either the washy-washy song or the spy theme, it becomes comical and Paxs lose the attentiveness required.

Yeah, I would not mind if they showed the spy-themed muster info to kids in adventure ocean or as an extra on the TV channel, but it definitely does not convey the correct attitude for a serious drill.

[Starry Eyes]

Just now, Toddcan said:

Don't forget to put that whistle in your mouth when wearing the lifejacket at muster. 

And then carelessly let the belt of the life jacket drag behind you on the stairs when you return to your cabin

[alfaeric]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The IMO moves very slowly, and needs to have quite a lot of data to make a decision.  Two years of e-muster evaluations, even on all cruise ships, is not that large a data pool, compared to the decades of data from the old style drill.  Frankly, I don't believe that the IMO will approve the e-muster, as it does not provide adequate, realistic training for passengers or crew.  I dread having a disaster on a ship where the e-muster has been in use.

 

Since the crew still needs to perform a passenger muster drill weekly, adding this to the normal crew fire and boat drill is adding more time away from normal duties for more crew than under the old drill, and also, crew are wasted waiting at the muster station for hours waiting for passengers to check in, taking them from their normal duties, so this is also a cost savings for the cruise line.

 

I know I'm in the unpopular minority, but I see this as a win for passenger safety.

Maybe I'm missing something that they show us, but in the many cruises that I've been on, the only thing they ever have shown us is 1) where your muster station is and 2) how to put on a life preserver.  Other than that, there is nothing else being demonstrated.   The muster station location is part of the e-muster process that you have to actually do, so that's done.  What's left is to make sure everyone knows how to put on a life preserver.

 

And while it's easy to claim that the e-muster does not get enough eyes, to honestly check- you have to compare in person muster to the e-muster to know how many people paid attention.  Given how people are piled deep into the personal muster and how so many people are clearly not paying attention- the personal muster isn't that great- so you can't assume 100% for that.

 

They do make sure the minors have a band- but that can be done for the emuster check in. And spend time to tell people to wash their hands and understand the basic rules- which has nothing to do with the mustering.  

 

And if I'm missing something that it supposed to be demonstrated at the muster event, then something else is wrong.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I did realize many crew were involved in a variety of roles.  Both pre and post shut down I have seen them drilling without passenger involvement, including the jobs you mentioned…though I wouldn’t know when  they were doing the entire ship and when they were doing limited areas.

During the passenger muster drill, those 500 will be able to actually open every cabin with master key cards, search the cabin and bath, and then place a marker in the key card slot that the cabin is searched and cleared, since no passengers should be anywhere but at their stations.  The other half of the crew can continue with their normal duties (dinner prep, baggage handling, getting the ship ready to get underway).  The drills that you see during the cruise are the crew fire and boat drills, and these require the entire crew to be involved (there will be about 100 excused to keep passenger services running).  Those crew assigned to duties as part of the passenger mustering, will report to their stations (usually at the stairwells on each deck), but will not actually search (don't want to surprise a pax in the shower), while the other crew drill to deal with the emergency (fire, flooding, etc).  Typically, the cabin/public space search takes longer than the fire drill (amazing how we get the fires out so quickly during drills), so if they simulate a search during a crew drill, it will extend the drill for the entire crew, not just the muster crew.

[moposh]

2 hours ago, nelblu said:

Traditional, wearing your life jacket to your station.😄

No, I think just going to muster station and watching a video.

[time4u2go]

24 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Maybe I'm missing something that they show us, but in the many cruises that I've been on, the only thing they ever have shown us is 1) where your muster station is and 2) how to put on a life preserver.  Other than that, there is nothing else being demonstrated.   The muster station location is part of the e-muster process that you have to actually do, so that's done.  What's left is to make sure everyone knows how to put on a life preserver.

 

And while it's easy to claim that the e-muster does not get enough eyes, to honestly check- you have to compare in person muster to the e-muster to know how many people paid attention.  Given how people are piled deep into the personal muster and how so many people are clearly not paying attention- the personal muster isn't that great- so you can't assume 100% for that.

 

They do make sure the minors have a band- but that can be done for the emuster check in. And spend time to tell people to wash their hands and understand the basic rules- which has nothing to do with the mustering.  

 

And if I'm missing something that it supposed to be demonstrated at the muster event, then something else is wrong.

The muster drill isn't just a drill for the passengers.  It's also for the crew.

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Maybe I'm missing something that they show us, but in the many cruises that I've been on, the only thing they ever have shown us is 1) where your muster station is and 2) how to put on a life preserver.  Other than that, there is nothing else being demonstrated.   The muster station location is part of the e-muster process that you have to actually do, so that's done.  What's left is to make sure everyone knows how to put on a life preserver.

The in person drill more closely simulates an actual emergency, and it is a long held truism that the more realistic the training, the better the result.  It also allows for the crew to actually perform the duties assigned to them for mustering passengers, like searching cabins, because there are no passengers around, as I've explained above.  The "safety announcements" like hand washing and throwing cigarettes overboard are just to fill the time it takes for the crew to complete the muster process (searching and herding).

[vacationlover_mn]

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

If they are going to open the film with either the washy-washy song or the spy theme, it becomes comical and Paxs lose the attentiveness required.

Omg, the spy themed one was the worst!!!  

[alfaeric]

40 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The in person drill more closely simulates an actual emergency, and it is a long held truism that the more realistic the training, the better the result.  It also allows for the crew to actually perform the duties assigned to them for mustering passengers, like searching cabins, because there are no passengers around, as I've explained above.  The "safety announcements" like hand washing and throwing cigarettes overboard are just to fill the time it takes for the crew to complete the muster process (searching and herding).

Does it, though?  We are all told to pay attention, not drink, and not use our phones.  I've never seen that ever enforced.  People are talking on phones, whining about being there, and just being annoying.  

As for the search function- the crew that do that are the cabin stewards in my experience.  Seems pretty easy to fit that into a normal schedule for them to focus on that task every cruise once.  I'm betting that the procedure is to walk through a cabin in a very specific way before putting the red tag in the card slot.  I struggle to understand why the key parts can't be replicated every day while working.  Just like a plane check list.

 

So what's left is the herding of the passengers by the crew.   And they can certainly be stationed on the stairways to remind people to go and do their check in.

 

 

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

Does it, though?  We are all told to pay attention, not drink, and not use our phones.  I've never seen that ever enforced.  People are talking on phones, whining about being there, and just being annoying.  

I'm not saying that what happens while at the muster station is close to an actual emergency, that is where the "service industry" attitude takes over, and we don't want to tick off the passengers.  What is realistic for the passengers is having to get to your station while another thousand people are also trying to get to theirs.  Far different than a few individuals wandering in over hours while others enjoy the normal activities.

 

5 minutes ago, alfaeric said:

As for the search function- the crew that do that are the cabin stewards in my experience.  Seems pretty easy to fit that into a normal schedule for them to focus on that task every cruise once.  I'm betting that the procedure is to walk through a cabin in a very specific way before putting the red tag in the card slot.  I struggle to understand why the key parts can't be replicated every day while working.  Just like a plane check list.

Sure, you could practice searching a cabin, while doing daily cleaning, but that is simply the mechanics of searching a cabin.  Then there is the sweeping back to the stairwells, checking for unusual things, like smoke, and reporting to the zone leader, who reports to the deck leader, who then directs the deck team to fold down one deck, and when they are all accounted for one deck down, if that deck is clear, then fold down another deck, keeping accountability for the crew involved as well.  The entire process involves dealing with the entire ship at one time.

 

The e-muster to me is the equivalent of the crew deciding when they want to report to their drill assignments, rather than having one fire drill that involves the entire organization.