No Alcohol in any UK ports - what! 😱

[DCGuy64]

17 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I love the certainty that something that has now been happening for 13 months will have more than blown over in 6 months time. 🙂

You're cherrypicking, @KeithJenner. NCL has run many successful cruises in the last couple of years with obviously lots of happy customers. What you're doing is taking a few isolated examples, i.e. a port here and a port there in Italy, Greece, and the UK, and extrapolating that into some huge ongoing issue. It'd be the equivalent of you shopping at Tesco hundreds of times, and then when they're out of your favourite toilet paper 5 times over the course of 2 years, calling it a huge, ongoing problem. Not really.

[spanishguy1970]

could it be NCL is not paying their bills? to suppliers? or who knows, I wonder. I did notice on my last cruise they ran out of certain alcohol, they ran out of bottles of wine, certain liquors and i hear from other people that it happened in other ships as well. We were on the Epic. We have done Transatlantics a lot and i don't remember this extra tax in Spain for alcoholic drinks, that's happening as well.

Edited May 16, 2023 by spanishguy1970

[Travelling2Some]

1 hour ago, SouthamptonCruiseFan said:

Did they admit it? Have told me nobody else complained!!

Somewhere either in this rather vast thread or the discussion on P&O someone on a subsequent cruise reported that they admitted that people with drink packages should not have been charged the extra taxes in Spain. 

 

"No one else is complaining" is such a first line B.S. answer and almost always a lie.

[KeithJenner]

Just now, spanishguy1970 said:

could it be NCL is not paying their bills? to suppliers? or who knows, I wonder. I did notice on my last cruise they run out of alcohol, they ran out of bottles of wine, certain liquors and i hear from other people that it happened in other ships as well. We were on the Epic. We have done Transatlantics a lot and i don't remember this extra tax in Spain for alcoholic drinks, that's happening as well.

The tax in Spain has been an issue for years. We first cruised from there in 2012 and it was charged (for the entire cruise on the Epic Western Med).

 

The situation regarding the beverage package has changed over the years. The usual procedure has been not to charge such people, but I am aware of at least two times when they did (for a few cruises quite a few years ago, and again at the time that people are discussing here).

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

could it be NCL is not paying their bills? to suppliers? or who knows, I wonder. I did notice on my last cruise they run out of alcohol, they ran out of bottles of wine, certain liquors and i hear from other people that it happened in other ships as well. We were on the Epic. We have done Transatlantics a lot and i don't remember this extra tax in Spain for alcoholic drinks, that's happening as well.

When we took our TA cruise on the Epic in December 2022, there was a port workers strike in southern Spain that caused the previous cruise to skip a port, and it also delayed the ship's arrival in Lisbon (where we were embarking), to the point where instead of us leaving at 7 pm as scheduled, we left port about 2:30 am the following morning. That caused a domino effect that forced us to miss our port stop in Ponta Delgada. Frankly, I was disappointed, because that cruise only had 2 port stops in 9 days as it was. I'm sure I could have found some excuse to blame NCL and say they should have worked out an agreement with the dock workers and/or sped up so we'd get to Ponta Delgada after all. We also had to shelve our plans to call at Bermuda due to bad weather. The cruise line (without us even saying anything) offered us $100 OBC as a gesture. So we made the best of it and had a wonderful time. Life's too short to get all bent out of shape over these things.

Edited May 16, 2023 by DCGuy64

[spanishguy1970]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

The tax in Spain has been an issue for years. We first cruised from there in 2012 and it was charged (for the entire cruise on the Epic Western Med).

 

The situation regarding the beverage package has changed over the years. The usual procedure has been not to charge such people, but I am aware of at least two times when they did (for a few cruises quite a few years ago, and again at the time that people are discussing here).

I stand corrected. We never take the drinking package and if we do order a drink is during a sea day. We buy or get onboard credit and use that for our drinks and miscellaneous. My suggestion to people is, buy refundable onboard credit and use that to buy your drinks, until this situation is completely sorted out.

[spanishguy1970]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

When we took our TA cruise on the Epic in December 2022, there was a port workers strike in southern Spain that caused the previous cruise to skip a port, and it also delayed the ship's arrival in Lisbon (where we were embarking), to the point where instead of us leaving at 7 pm as scheduled, we left port about 2:30 am the following morning. That caused a domino effect that forced us to miss our port stop in Ponta Delgada. Frankly, I was disappointed, because that cruise only had 2 port stops in 9 days as it was. I'm sure I could have found some excuse to blame NCL and say they should have worked out an agreement with the dock workers and/or sped up so we'd get to Ponta Delgada after all. But instead, we made the best of it and had a wonderful time. Life's too short to get all bent out of shape over these things.

I agree, on this last trip Cadiz was canceled due to a strike or weather don't remember really LOL i enjoyed the extra sea day. We Went to Ibiza and enjoyed it very much. We ordered the drinks we wanted and we were good 🙂

[KeithJenner]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You're cherrypicking, @KeithJenner. NCL has run many successful cruises in the last couple of years with obviously lots of happy customers. What you're doing is taking a few isolated examples, i.e. a port here and a port there in Italy, Greece, and the UK, and extrapolating that into some huge ongoing issue. It'd be the equivalent of you shopping at Tesco hundreds of times, and then when they're out of your favourite toilet paper 5 times over the course of 2 years, calling it a huge, ongoing problem. Not really.

To make your Tesco example a bit more similar to this one.

 

If 5 times over 13 months Tesco wasn't selling any alcohol to their customers for a number of days whilst all the other supermarkets were openly doing so, and just put a sign up saying that the government weren't letting them do so then I would assume that they had any issue that they are struggling to get fixed, for whatever reason.

 

When someone then came along and said "this is just a minor issue and it will be sorted soon" then I would laugh at their confidence that Tesco would suddenly be able to fix the problem.

[KeithJenner]

2 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

My suggestion to people is, buy refundable onboard credit and use that to buy your drinks, until this situation is completely sorted out.

I'm not sure how that would help.

 

In some places it would just mean that you couldn't get a drink where others with the package can.

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

When someone then came along and said "this is just a minor issue and it will be sorted soon" then I would laugh at their confidence that Tesco would suddenly be able to fix the problem.

Just curious how your laughing would change the situation in any way. I don't see that it would.

 

[DCGuy64]

If I went to a business that continued to disappoint me, even after threatening many over times over "I'll never shop here again," it would just seem a bit weird. But maybe that's just me.

[spanishguy1970]

2 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I'm not sure how that would help.

 

In some places it would just mean that you couldn't get a drink where others with the package can.

but people would not be disappointed that they have the drinking package and they are not getting their drinks in certain ports, i have read so many comments already where people want their gratuities back and NCL is saying NO, with refundable credit is your money and you get it back but again that works for us, we are not drinkers and they always seem to have the drinks we want when we do order.

[Pooston]

9 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

To make your Tesco example a bit more similar to this one.

 

If 5 times over 13 months Tesco wasn't selling any alcohol to their customers for a number of days whilst all the other supermarkets were openly doing so, and just put a sign up saying that the government weren't letting them do so then I would assume that they had any issue that they are struggling to get fixed, for whatever reason.

 

When someone then came along and said "this is just a minor issue and it will be sorted soon" then I would laugh at their confidence that Tesco would suddenly be able to fix the problem.

 

I wouldn't even bother responding to him/her any further. They clearly don't want to listen to the facts.

 

I was on the Dawn last week so have first hand experience of what happened. I live in the UK and I know there have been no changes to the law or any new restrictions as NCL claim.  

 

Yet still he/she refutes those facts because of some bizarre notion that NCL must be telling the truth and everyone else is lying.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Pooston

[ChiefMateJRK]

After 25 pages.  The conclusion?

 

This is a problem for people who drink but it's not a problem for those who don't.  Shocking.

 

Like my good friend @Sailing12Away, I drink, and I know things🐀.  What do I "know" about this?  NCL screwed up royally (yeah...) and they aren't out of the woods yet.  Hopefully, for the sake of my fellow drinkers, they get it fixed yesterday.😎

[KeithJenner]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Just curious how your laughing would change the situation in any way. I don't see that it would.

 

What?

 

You may not understand what laughter is? It's something that people do when they see or hear (or in the case of your posts, read) something funny.

 

Why would you think I'm suggesting it would change the situation?

 

Truly bizarre!

[ChiefMateJRK]

3 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

we are not drinkers and they always seem to have the drinks we want when we do order.

???

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

To make your Tesco example a bit more similar to this one.

 

If 5 times over 13 months Tesco wasn't selling any alcohol to their customers for a number of days whilst all the other supermarkets were openly doing so, and just put a sign up saying that the government weren't letting them do so then I would assume that they had any issue that they are struggling to get fixed, for whatever reason.

 

When someone then came along and said "this is just a minor issue and it will be sorted soon" then I would laugh at their confidence that Tesco would suddenly be able to fix the problem.

Since we still don't know exactly what transpired, here's another possible take: suppose Tesco had experienced severe financial hardship and was having trouble retaining employees, including ones responsible for requisitioning the alcohol. However, let's say Sainsbury's was in better financial shape and had no such problems. If P&O, Princess, Viking, et al have had no problem paying the taxes and fees and thus never had an interruption in beverage service, that would explain the difference in their onboard experience and that of NCL (assuming, of course, that that's what happened, which we still don't know for certain). Again, I don't know these things for certain, which is why part of me hesitates even to suggest it. But I definitely think there are other scenarios than the "NCL are just being greedy" that seems to hold such sway here.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

What?

 

You may not understand what laughter is? It's something that people do when they see or hear (or in the case of your posts, read) something funny.

 

Why would you think I'm suggesting it would change the situation?

 

Truly bizarre!

You clearly completed missed my point.

[Mommapadraig]

16 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

The tax in Spain has been an issue for years. We first cruised from there in 2012 and it was charged (for the entire cruise on the Epic Western Med).

 

The situation regarding the beverage package has changed over the years. The usual procedure has been not to charge such people, but I am aware of at least two times when they did (for a few cruises quite a few years ago, and again at the time that people are discussing here).

We paid the Vat tax on our last cruise ending 5/7.we had the drink package.  We drank a lot while in port. It was worth it. We had a blast. Saying that this is the first time I’ve read that them charging the Vat tax is questionable. Oh well. It was very little compared to the prices of drinks on Land! 

[KeithJenner]

2 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

but people would not be disappointed that they have the drinking package and they are not getting their drinks in certain ports, i have read so many comments already where people want their gratuities back and NCL is saying NO, with refundable credit is your money and you get it back but again that works for us, we are not drinkers and they always seem to have the drinks we want when we do order.

Aah, OK, I get you.

 

Yes, that would work, but it does mean that in some places you wouldn't be able to get a drink whilst others with the package can, so it swings both ways really.

[luv2kroooz]

25 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

So far the only official response has been to say it's due to local regulations, and until I hear otherwise, I assume they're telling the truth. If they're not, then it seems to me that those who doubt them need to show PROOF of that, not speculate and pretend to know all the facts when they don't. I haven't seen one single shred of evidence to say that the cruise line is being dishonest. What I have seen is a plethora of unsubstantiated gripes. Sorry, but that doesn't work for me. If others don't share my view, then that's totally fine, but no one should expect me to change my view on this until facts have changed to my satisfaction.

Well, they are telling what is commonly referred to as a half-truth. See here is how it generally works.... Local regulations require the vacation provider to pay some fees or taxes to the locality in order to serve alcohol. The regulations vary from port to port.

 

If the vacation provider doesn't pay the fees, then local regulations prohibit them from selling alcohol. When a vacation provider advertises unlimited open bar, inherent in that advertisement is the understanding that the vacation provider will take the steps necessary to allow for the bar to be opened. That is how free markets work. I pay you money for a service; you take my money and deliver the service. Every other cruise line in the industry has taken the steps necessary to address this.

 

NCL has apparently advertised unlimited open bar, collected money from their customers  for open bar, but never took the steps necessary to pay the fees to the ports to allow for the bar to be opened. I don't have enough info to know if that was unintentional or intentional, and that is a different matter. The executive office seems to be well aware of the situation and to date hasn't acknowledged any plans to change it or refund passengers money. Based on this, I assume it is an intentional business decision.

 

So, yes, if they didn't pay the fees, then local regulations prohibit them from opening the bar, just as the sign says.  However, had they paid the fees, there would be no issue. See, this is how P&O, Princess, Royal, etc have been able to serve alcohol in all of the ports. I posted the link to the P&O thread yesterday. Did you read it? Do you believe the experiences outlined in the thread? P&O advertised, collected, and then paid the port to deliver the service. NCL advertised, collected, and then didn't pay the port for the service. Therefore, local laws prohibit them from serving alcohol unless or until they pay up, just as the sign says.

 

Does this help you out or are you confused? If you are waiting for NCL to come out and issue an official press release telling you that they did not pay these fees, you are probably going to be waiting a long, long time. Things just don't work that way.

 

In the past when NCL has done foolish things, they eventually get a lot of negative publicity and just quietly fix the problem.

[spanishguy1970]

Just now, KeithJenner said:

Aah, OK, I get you.

 

Yes, that would work, but it does mean that in some places you wouldn't be able to get a drink whilst others with the package can, so it swings both ways really.

Gotcha, I guess it does.

[spanishguy1970]

7 minutes ago, Mommapadraig said:

We paid the Vat tax on our last cruise ending 5/7.we had the drink package.  We drank a lot while in port. It was worth it. We had a blast. Saying that this is the first time I’ve read that them charging the Vat tax is questionable. Oh well. It was very little compared to the prices of drinks on Land! 

We got excellent glass of wine in Spain at 3.50 Euro a glass while on the ship they charge 9 dollars, so sometimes it pays to get off the ship and have a drink somewhere else.

[Mommapadraig]

5 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

We got excellent glass of wine in Spain at 3.50 Euro a glass while on the ship they charge 9 dollars, so sometimes it pays to get off the ship and have a drink somewhere else.

It was our fault. We didn’t venture off from the high tourist area. A small pitcher of sangria was 28 euros.this was in Ibiza. Our friends did much better venturing away from the bars lining the waterfront, However after climbing up to the Old town we were ready to get back to the ship. 

[mjkacmom]

38 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I'm not sure how that would help.

 

In some places it would just mean that you couldn't get a drink where others with the package can.

Plus folks with the package can bring on wine for free.