Fire on a cruise ship leads to an evacuation!

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Wow, talk about creating confusion, rather than lessening it.  How would each boat crew know who is boarding the boat, and how would the master muster list of all passengers be updated, if everyone is simply going to any boat.  And, what of people who don't have smart phones?  There are still some out there who post about it here on CC.  By the way, what shipboard EMS system?  And, what is a "type 2 emergency", and how does it differ from a "type 1"?  And, confusion on confusion,  you are directed to one location for a "type 1" emergency, but to a different location for a "type 2"?

 

And, the "damage control systems" are not electronic, and would not be updated instantaneously.

 

And, in fact, RCI started the e-muster drill first, long before NCL, and they were given a provisional approval for testing this format, and as far as  I know, the e-muster is still under provisional approval.

Correct. Plus, NCL went back to regular muster several months ago but then gave in to customer complaints and reinstated e-muster in April. 
 

30 years with the USCG and I’ll admit I’m stumped on the “type 2 emergency” thing.   
 

JRGs version of reality is quite bizarre. 

[broberts]

18 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I have an e-mail into the USCG CSCOE (Cruise Ship Center of Excellence), which is the department that studies regulations and incidents for passenger vessels, and formulates the Safety Bulletins, with regards to their position, and possibly the IMO's position, on the efficacy and permanence of the e-muster.  Will likely have a response in a week or two.

 

The response should be interesting. I'm of the opinion that both the old muster practice and e-muster have weaknesses. I doubt one is significantly better than the other. The problem is people. Specifically people that have never experienced a serious emergency and don't want to interrupt their fun. I'm not sure there is a fix for this 🙂.

 

13 hours ago, jsn55 said:

Emergency Instructions on your Smart Phone!  What a novel concept.  It's precisely the vast numbers of people with phones glued to their hands and their noses an inch from the screen 24/7 that I'm worried about when it comes to panic.

 

Panic is a definite concern. 

 

Relying on smart phones to assist muster in an emergency is a seriously bad idea. It counts on the emergency not involving any part of the extensive hardware support devoted to signal propagation on a ship. I can also imagine people arguing with crew when local conditions require a deviation. There is also the problem of people not understanding the instructions. 

 

I suppose the amber alert model might be useful. I don't think anything more extensive would prove practical.

[MBP&O2/O]

 I  shouldn't really chip in, but .....

 

Not specifically cruise lifeboat related, but to labour a point.
A Merchant ship with four lifeboats, each of course would  accommodate all staff on board. Two boats on the midship housing, and two aft.
During an incident in heavy weather when we had to consider use of the boats .... 
The two aft boats became damaged, on the davits, by the weather and in any case were inaccessible ....
The port side midship boat was also wrecked by weather, again on the davit.
That's three muster stations out of the window 🤔
The plan of action was to use the last remaining boat to make two trips to transfer all non essential personnel to a rescue ship.
Good plan ..... until the lifeboat, on trip 1, in worsening weather, shipped a greenie and sank to the point of zero freeboard.
Oops.😵‍💫
Regulations have obviously changed since then but no matter how well you plan, no matter how many named degrees of emergency you have, there will still be a passenger who knows best and will ignore instructions. Remember, Murphys law will still kick in.  ... and,  politely, excreta occurs.

[Aquahound]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:32 PM, Cruzaholic41 said:

Oh, and here is where you are wrong. You keep saying the USCG approved this method, as though they are in support of it. They are not. In reality, the USCG did not oppose this method because it technically meets the letter of the law. In other words, they couldn’t stop it. That does not mean they support it, and I know for a fact they don’t.   So please stop typing as though you know what you’re talking about. 

 

I can't believe I missed this post last time I read trough.  Yes!!!!  While the USCG is heavily involved in the creation of safety regulations pertaining to U.S. law, which includes all vessels operating in U.S. jurisdiction, their job in most matters, such as muster regulations, is to enforce the regulations as written by SOLAS and other pertinent agencies.  A cruise line can pretty much come up with any method it wants and as long as it meets the law, USCG cannot disapprove it.  "Approving" and "supporting" are very different things.  

[Son of a son of a ...]

3 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

 
Good plan ..... until the lifeboat, on trip 1, in worsening weather, shipped a greenie and sank …
 

Curious … “shipped a greenie”?  Can you explain for a non-nautical person?  Thanks!

[Cruzaholic41]

43 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I can't believe I missed this post last time I read trough.  Yes!!!!  While the USCG is heavily involved in the creation of safety regulations pertaining to U.S. law, which includes all vessels operating in U.S. jurisdiction, their job in most matters, such as muster regulations, is to enforce the regulations as written by SOLAS and other pertinent agencies.  A cruise line can pretty much come up with any method it wants and as long as it meets the law, USCG cannot disapprove it.  "Approving" and "supporting" are very different things.  

Thank you. And thanks to you and the other experts here for all the information. 
 

For others, I know Paul personally and can vouch for his experience. DH used to work with him. 

[Heidi13]

25 minutes ago, Son of a son of a ... said:

Curious … “shipped a greenie”?  Can you explain for a non-nautical person?  Thanks!

 

A large wave swamped the lifeboat filling it to the gunwales, but with the reserve buoyancy required in a lifeboat it remained at the surface.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Son of a son of a ... said:

Curious … “shipped a greenie”?  Can you explain for a non-nautical person?  Thanks!

"Shipping a greenie" means that a wave that was so deep the water was green, and not white like a wave on the beach, came over the boat/ship.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Yes!!!!  While the USCG is heavily involved in the creation of safety regulations pertaining to U.S. law, which includes all vessels operating in U.S. jurisdiction, their job in most matters, such as muster regulations, is to enforce the regulations as written by SOLAS and other pertinent agencies.

It will be interesting to see the reply from the CSCOE regarding especially how the USCG has evaluated the efficacy of the drill format, and what feedback they are getting from the IMO.

 

Yeah, everyone sees the USCG inspectors on the cruise ships and think that they are checking to see that the ship meets US regulations, which they don't (only US flag vessels do), when they are actually checking to see that the ship meets the less stringent SOLAS regulations.

[Aquahound]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It will be interesting to see the reply from the CSCOE regarding especially how the USCG has evaluated the efficacy of the drill format, and what feedback they are getting from the IMO.

 

 

It's a good question.  USCG lawyers are risk averse, at best, so I would be surprised if you get anything other than a generic answer.  

[chengkp75]

What sensors?  What transponders?  How do they determine if a lifeboat is usable or not, or whether a pathway is blocked?  When a fire alarm is triggered, all of the fire screen doors in that zone are closed, but there is no reason that the on-scene commander, or the Captain, could not authorize some to be opened just to facilitate the passenger muster.  Why should the cruise line invest in them, if they even exist, when the regulations don't require it?  Do you think they do anything regarding safety or health that is not required?

 

Again, since you have never experienced a maritime emergency, or likely any real world emergency on a large scale, you have no idea what is involved.  I can tell you that the cruise ships regularly get visits from the local fire departments in port, to see and discuss procedures, since they will tell you that they have no clue about fighting a shipboard fire, and don't envy us the difficulties they see in doing so.  Ships are unique things.

[broberts]

3 hours ago, JRG said:

 

To answer your question I am forced to dumb it down,  as they say,  but basically each of the stations involved will have transponders that interface with the controlling app,  and these transponders also have the usual fire and other sensors that send signals to the controlling app that a particular lifeboat, or lets say maybe a fire-door,  anyways these sensors perform the same unified task as reporting 'damage control' but it is automatic.

 

😂😂😂😂

 

The best approaches to emergency planning are KISS. Using a system that involves multiple fail points is a waste of effort and treasure.